cutting mats for loooong panoramic photos

[Norman H]

I make super long, large images. Sometimes 8 feet+ wide and 2 feet high. I'll soon be ready to show. The problem is framing.

I'm somewhat handy with with a woodshop and have all the right tools for making frames. Making an oversize frame is essentially the same as making a normal sized one, for me. The wood part is no issue. And I'll have the glass/plastic cut. But the mat ... that's the problem.

From my prelim investigation, devices that cut oversized mats ( say, 8 feet wide) are very hard to find and expensive. And the mat stock is likewise quite pricey, especially if you have to have some freakish length shipped (I've yet to find a place in Southern California that carries it, so thus far, shipping seems to be the only option).

Have any of you ever met these challenges. Is there some archival method that works great that does NOT require a mat?

Thanks!

[Harold_4074]

There is always the Dexter Mat Cutter; very inexpensive and the only other things you'll need are a surface to cut on and a straightedge a few inches longer than the mat. Oh, yeah---and a lot of blades; at eight feet per cut, they won't last long. A few woodworking clamps and the nerves of a diamond cutter, and you're all set.

I'm frankly intrigued by the idea of an eight foot-plus piece of mat board. Where does stuff like this come from, if not special order from the factory?

[Greg Miller]

I have framed 4' wide panoramas. Obtaining mat board longer than 60" and cutting a decent window is pretty tough and expensive. Getting glass that big and handling it without cracking (not to mention managing dust during assembly) is also difficult.

I can't help with alternative methods but would be interested to hear if you find anything. I have some 8' prints sitting around waiting for a good display method.

www.GregMillerPhotography.com

[Jon Shiu]

A straightedge and hand cutter would work fine. The logan push type cutter works well. My local small town framing shop stocks large sheets of mat board, so I'm surprised that you can't get it in Southern Cal. Just call a few framing shops.

Good luck

[Steve H]

Interesting. I wonder if the place where you got your glass cut would also be able to cut the mat for you ? They obviously have rigs set up for straight cuts (Im sure they could cut on a 45' oblique as well). Beyond that, I agree with Mr. Levie that the Dexter Mat Cutter would be your best (read: inexpensive to get the job done) bet.

[Mark Sampson]

I hope you decide to use plexi. An 8-to-10 foot piece of glass is both fragile and dangerous.

[David Richhart]

I have seen vintage prints and paintings framed with a mat covered with linen cloth. Perhaps an archival cloth, covering an archival pieced-together mat, would enhance your photographs.

[robert_4927]

By all means plexi. Unless you want to hang them with 1/4" cable with the assistance of a crane.

[Harold_4074]

The combination of plexiglas and a cloth-covered mat sounds really good. Since the principal function of the mat is to keep the artwork out of contact with the glazing, and it sounds like you are planning to use a wooden frame (with all of the archival issues of wood, finishes, etc.) the large dimensions and consequent susceptibility to bowing of the glazing might justify a rather thick mat, such as 1/4 inch plywood or masonite.

I know that this is slightly heretical, but I suspect that you aren't planning to dry-mount the print, and probably nothing less than some other sort of adhesive is going to keep it flat. If the print is mounted with spray adhesive (onto a board larger than eight feet wide...wow!) you could "float" it inside the opening of a thick mat covered with linen or some such and end up with something like a very shallow Riker mount. The print would be out of contact with anything other than its mount, and the atmosphere trapped behind the glazing probably wouldn't be any worse for it than in any other wooden-frame situation. If you leave the print exposed (no glazing) then a wood-based mat covered with cloth (but not in direct contact with the print surface) would be basically no different than the room atmosphere in which is was displayed.

One thing that does give me pause is the potential difficulty of simply handling a frame or mat with the proportions you mention---unless you clamp it to a full sheet of something, it is hard to imaging not twisting, racking, or otherwise distorting it.

[Bruce Watson]

Due to the size, I suspect that you are printing these digitally and not optically. If that's true, then you could think in the digital box instead of the darkroom-print box.

You could, for example, print to canvas with an inkjet printer. Coat the print with a suitable UV coating to get the look you like and to protect the print. Then stretch the print over stretcher bars just like an oil painting. Frame the stretched print in a simple and elegant floater frame. No matting, no glazing.

I done this five times in the last few months. My prints aren't as long as yours - my biggest was about 93 x 150 cm. But they are stunning, if I can say that about my own work. This technique works very well, and the resulting assembly is not nearly as heavy as a conventional matted and glazed frame. IOW, it's easier to hang too.

This technique gets you out of the hard-to-find matting market, and the how-do-I-ship-it market as well. Plus, it's less expensive.

Just a thought.

[Craig Wactor]

I agree with Harold. You could have it vaccuum mounted to archival foam core and float it a half inch under the glass, and with a couple inches of air between it and the edges of the frame. ImageCraft (http://www.imcraft.com/content.asp?page_id=1) here in Phoenix can mount that big. 'Course that means a six hour road trip!

Another option would be to cut two U shaped halves of the mat, and tile them together. I think with a print that big the viewing distance would make the seam disappear.

[Craig Wactor]

I forgot to mention, Logan makes a straight edge w/ bevel cutter that is not hinged to a mat cutting board. If you found 8' board, you can use one of those to make the cuts, doing several feet at a time, then sliding the straight edge down without removing the blade: Logan model #424 Team System (http://www.arizonaartsupply.com/cgi-bin/azart.cgi/218278.html?mv_session_id=HhVMydfV)

www.craigwphoto.com (http://www.craigwphoto.com)

[Clayton Tume]

I've cut mats this big using the techique Craig mentions...........cut two U pieces out of a 5 foot sheet, there is little wastage. Cut the join on a 45 angle so they lap together. Done properly you can achieve an almost invisible join. Glass go for 3mm, no problems in that size. Backing use Gatorboard or similar so it adds some rigidity to the framed work Choose a substantially sized frame to hold the package together.

Clayton

[Scott Davis]

Another solution to hide the seam in the mat is to reverse the bevel on the window, so that it slants down toward the artwork - meaning the wider portion of the window is closer to the artwork, instead of closer to the glass. Then apply a fabric covering to the mat. Under the circumstances of the size of the piece, I would also recommend getting 8ply mat board instead of 4ply. I can't imagine what 8ply would cost at that size, other than an obscene amount.

Plexiglass at that size is an absolute must. Any frame that long will absolutely flex and torque as you move it. Glass has great compression strength, but terrible flexion. It will shatter, perhaps explosively so, if you try to use a piece with those dimensions.

[David Becker]

This is not really an answer, but a warning, depending on the materiel you use for the print. I have begun to do 6 foot long, 16 inch wide Cibachrome (now called Ilfochrome, of course) panoramas.

These pose a particular problem because the Cibachrome support is very rigid and stable and doesn't change size with humidity changes. On the other hand, any sort of paper mat or paper/wooden backing, (even archival paper, of course) changes size significantly with humidity variations.

The problem is that if the print is taped to the backing (the simplest solution), over that long distance it will either buckle in waves when the backing shrinks or pull strongly when the backing expands. On small prints the size change is small enough that it isn't a problem, but over a 6 foot distance I had bad results. If dry mounted it pulls strongly, trying to curve the support, which might give problems in the long run.

I am now trying mounting on a plexiglas support, as that doesn't change much with humidity. I have used cold lamination, which works pretty well, but I am not sure about its archival qualities. Does anyone have info on this? Maybe I could just tape to the plexi. I just thought of this and haven't tried it.

If your prints are on fiber based paper or computer printouts you probably won't have this problem...... But be careful of Cibachrome or other rigid supports.

[Norman H]

First of all, let me say how utterly blown away I am by the quality, depth and number of responses. Wow.

A few responses to the things folks posted. I knew about plexi versus glass for huge images. I was only considering glass for smaller pans. I think I might be able to cut my own plexi, too.

The great thing about these responses is that it gives me literally a dozen or so places to focus my research next. And so many pitfalls will now be avoided.

You're right that I'm printing digitally ... using an Epson 7800 ... printing to canvas is interesting ... but I worry about the canvas texture. Will it still look like photo paper?

I had considered canvas wrapping ... very interesting. I'll need to look for real-life examples to get a feel for the aesthetics of it, and how best to achieve it.

And I'll be looking at the various cutting techniques and tools discussed.

It's interesting, as far as I can tell there's nothing about this problem on the web (until now). Perhaps once I get a smooth solution, I'll create a mini-website that details techniques and alternatives.

Thanks so much for the input. What a community. This was my first visit here.

The vacuum mounting to archival foam core is a great idea. I'll be looking nto this.

[Norman H]

Errata:

oops ... wrote "I had considered canvas wrapping " when I meant "I had considered linen wrapping"

N.

[David Becker]

You mentioned cutting your own plexi....

Thin plexi, a few milimeters thick, can be cut easily by scribing it on both sides with a mat knife or any kind of cutter, scribing it a bit deeply by going past a number of times. Then it breaks easily, starting from one edge and going towards the other. I do this for my panoramas, 6 feet long. It would of course work fine for any size.