Smaller than 4x5 Graflex

[Clemens M.]

I saw that many Graflex cameras were available in smaller sizes, and I consider buying one as a "pocket camera"... well, for a large pocket...

On the Graflex.org site it is recommended not to buy mini-Graphics or other Graphics that do not have a Graflok back as the film formats associated with spring or Graphic backs are no longer available...but how do I find out? What does a Graflok back look alke, and how are the others?

Oh, by the way: as I live in Germany, I am scared to buy a camera from an eBay offer. Do yo know reliable dealers that would sell me a working Super Graphic or Speed Graphic and a smaller one?

[Scott Davis]

Try Midwest Photo (www.mpex.com) or Quality Camera (www.qualitycamera.com), or KEH Camera (www.keh.com). You'll need to call or email Quality because they list virtually none of their inventory on their website, but they have a tremendous amount of stuff in stock. Also look into Columbus Camera Group (www.columbuscameragroup.com) - another one you may want to call or email as their online inventory is much smaller than their stock.

[Bill_1856]

DON'T!!! I have had 3x4 and 4x5 Super D Graflex's for many years. If you've got to have a SLR, I highly recommend that you get a Mamiya RB67.

[Nitish Kanabar]

Clemens,

Look at this listing - it shows the graflok back.
Graflok (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7560440059&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1)

While this listing shows the graphic back.
Graphic (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7560360568&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1)

The reason why graflok backs are preferable is because you can remove the focusing panel to attach roll-film accessories. IMHO, If you always use sheet film in holders then it does not make too big a difference what type of back you have.

Super-Graphics and super-speed-graphics will come with a rotating graflok back, so you should be good there.

Speed graphics will come in either in a graflok back or a graphic back, so you want to be able to see the back before you purchase.

[Donald Qualls]

Clemens, if your pockets are big enough for a 3x4 Speed or Crown, you should check into the 9x12 cm plate cameras. I've got two of them; the Tessar and Skopar lenses that were top of the line lack only coating to stand up against any modern normal lens, the cameras typically fold down into a box about the size of two 4x5 film holders, and the plate holders are a bit less than half the thickness and slightly smaller surface area than a 4x5 holder. The 9x12 cm film is readily available in Europe, in a good variety of emulsions (last I heard, even Kodak sheet films were cut in 9x12 cm for the European market, both B&W and color), and you can get 9x12 cm holders that will fit your 4x5 camera as well, so you can use the same film for both. That film size is between 3x4 and 4x5, BTW; the usable image area is about 85x115 mm compared to around 95x120 mm for 4x5.

These were press cameras, designed to be hand held, and have limited movements (typically front rise and shift only, though some include a drop bed that acts like back tilt), but most have good quality shutters (by 1930, they were mostly Compur with 250 top speed) and the bellows are often in good condition even after 70-80 years. A few were even fitted with Kalart coupled rangefinders (aftermarket, I think).

The only big deal with plate cameras is finding usable plate holders for them; there were at least eight different holder mounts, possibly more (though a few would interchange even though they weren't identical), and the holders were made for glass plates, so require a film sheath to hold film. Those items aren't terribly rare, and film sheaths can be improvised, but you can't just buy a dozen more new holders if you decide your capacity is too small. On the other hand, for walking-around usage, how much film would you normally carry anyway? I have fifteen (single sided) plate holders for one of my plate cameras, and I figure that's plenty; the other has only five, but that's still enough for common usage.

[j.e.simmons]

Here in the U.S., JandC photography has sheet film for the smaller Graflex formats. Their film is imported from Europe - I don't know if one of the European suppliers also has the film cut to these sizes or not. Ilford also continues to make HP5+ in 2x3 (I'm not sure about 3x4).

I use my 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 Speed Graphic and Graflex cameras a lot. Neither have the Graflock back. I like them very much. The only advantage of the Graflock is that it allows the use of roll film holders.

You could also use Grafmatics, which hold six sheets of film in a holder only slightly larger than a traditional sheet film holder. And an additional plus - at least with the 2x3 size, the Grafmatics work with all three backs.

I think the graflex.org rejoinder was written at a time that the smaller sheet film was hard to find and folks were forced to use 120.

juan

[CXC]

The vast majority of mini-Speed Graphic users shoot 120 rollfilm rather than little tiny sheet film (is it even still available?). Therefore most people want the Graphloc back, which accepts standard rollfilm backs.

I tried this combination, but gave up on it because the ground glass was too small, the rollfilm back was not reliable, and I didn't like using a Graphic. I thought it would be fun, but it was just a hassle.

[Dan Fromm]

Clemens, if you want to shoot 2.25" x 3.25" (that's the true size of nominal 6x9), have an enormous pocket, and don't need a focal plane shutter, consider a Century Graphic. The camera's body is molded plastic ("Mahoganite") and a Graflok back is integral.

Shooting roll film with Graphic or other press camera that has a spring back need not be a large problem. Calumet sells a roll holder for 4x5 cameras, in two versions with nominal 6x7 and with nominal 6x9 gate, respectively. It slips between ground glass and camera body like a sheet film holder. So does the unloved Adapt-A-Roll 620, which was made to fit 2x3, 3x4, and 4x5 cameras; all versions have a 2.25" x 3.25" gate. I use Adapt-A-Rolls with my two 2x3 Graphics. The AAR MUST take up on a 620 spool but feeds perfectly well from a 120 spool. To conserve 620 spools, I rewind exposed film onto the 120 spool it came from before sending it to the lab. That's what a changing bag is for.

Midwest Photo Exchange (www.mpex.com) is a very fine dealer and usually has a number of Graphics in stock. If you're not secure about buying an old camera from a stranger via eBay, try MPEX.

If you want to shoot only with a normal lens, an old plate camera as suggested by Donald offers much better value for money than a Graphic. And they're fairly abundant in Germany. But if you want to use a variety of lenses, a Graphic may not be a bad choice. FWIW, I have two 2x3 Graphics, Pacemaker Speed and Century, and between them use lenses from 38 mm to 480 mm. Everything longer than 300 mm requires that my two short little cameras be lashed together into a long tandem camera.

Cheers,

Dan

[Matt Miller]

Clemens,

I have a 3-1/4 x 4-1/4 speed graphic with a spring back. I use normal double-sided film holders with sheet film. Getting sheet film for it is not a problem. J&C Photography here in the US has three or four emulsions available. I really love the little contact prints I make with this set up, and use it quite often.

[Donald Qualls]

Clemens, if you do choose to go with an inch-size camera, fotoimpex.de carries most if not all of the same films J&C Photo has, including the inch sizes, and no trans-Atlantic shipping. You should be able to get all three Efke emulsions, Forte rebranded as "Classic 200" and "Classic 400", and possibly Fomapan 100 as well (it's supposedly "always" been cut in inch sizes but has only recently begun to be imported to the USA in those sizes), in 2x3 inch and 3x4 inch. Also, the 3x4, aka 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 inch is the same as British "quarter plate" and thus gives an additional option for sheet film.

There are roll film adapters for the plate cameras, too, but their usefulness is dependent on having one that fits your camera; with some cameras, that is pretty hard to do (which includes both of mine). Honestly, if I'm going to shoot 6x9 on 120, I'll just take one of my 6x9 folders instead of a plate camera designed to use film twice that size. My Voigtlander Rollfilmkamera and Moskva 5 will cover my needs in 6x9 very nicely, and really will fit in a coat pocket.

[Paul Coy]

Clemens,

If you can locate a Graflok back in 2.25x3.25, then you can just put that on a mini speed. This is what I did and I now have two of them which I use regularly. I can use roll film backs, sheet film holders whenever the need arises. One camera is dedicated to the normal lens and the other has a longer focal length lens on it. I use them for just about everything; landscape, street, and they fold up into a nice small package.
Mini speed will have the advantage of the focal plane shutter so you can use barrel lenses. On the other hand, the Century does not have the shutter and is lighter.

Dan Fromm,

A 480mm lens on a 2x3? You have to be talking Tele but are you sure of this format?

[Dan Fromm]

Paul, you're mistaken on both counts. 480/9 Apo Nikkor, which is absolutely positively not a telephoto lens, and 2 by gum 3 Graphics. A pair of them, as I said. Please see http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a...g?msg_id=00CycD

I'll agree that its ugly, but it works.

[Paul Coy]

Dan,

I cannot get to that URL you provided. But I now understand that you are referring to some sort of modification to the camera to accept that focal lenght.

[Dan Fromm]

Paul, try this one: http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17595 I've clicked my way through from link to link -- there are a couple in sequence -- and all worked.

Please read what I wrote above.

To expand on what I wrote above, I built a tandem camera. That's two cameras arranged front-to-back. The front camera holds the lens, the rear camera holds the film, and a coupler between the two keeps the dark in. The two cameras are unmodified. The lensboards are unmodified. The lenses are unmodified.

Two 2x3 Graphics. One 480/9 Apo-Nikkor. Some bracketry and an adapter that holds the lens in front of a Copal #1. Clear?

I also shoot it with a 360/10 Apo-Saphir, hope eventually to get a 420 to fill the gap between 360 and 480. The Mk. II, which basically attaches to the front of the Mk. I, will, if I ever build it, accomodate a 600. I haven't come up with a satisfactorily simple and inexpensive version of the Mk. II yet, and the 600 I have in the closet is too big and heavy for use in the field.