Field Etiquette

[Merg Ross]

Earlier this week I was photographing along the Oregon Coast on my return from Vancouver Island. On one particular stretch of beach I was up and out with my camera shortly after 6:30 in the morning anticipating the usual relatively vacant beach at that hour. However, to my dismay, an army of large format photographers appeared on the horizon and began setting up their cameras, all seemingly in the way of one another. One chap did not move from his prominent spot for a considerable amount of time, reminding me of why group photo outings have never had an appeal.

So, to the question of etiquette; is it a case of territorial rights for the first to arrive, or should there be an unwritten rule to take your shot and move on?

[Doug Dolde]

I'm a lone shooter too if possible. I once found myself shooting with another guy in Sedona but it wasn't much problem to cooperate with just two of us.

I think rules are nonexistent but if these guys were too rude and intrusive, I'd probably find another spot rather than fight it.

[paulr]

if there are that many people lined up in the same spot, pointing at the same thing, isn't this a pretty good warning that you are about to embark on a major cliche? forget about etiquette ... if there are that many photographers lurking, just go somewhere they wouldn't think of going.

[Frank Petronio]

The person who is there first should have dibs. A B-B gun might be helpful...

[Wilbur Wong]

Be they armed with large format or beach walkers, it is difficult to have a clear horizon at Cannon Beach almost any day of the week. It is arguably their right as much as yours to be there.

I am envious that you seem to be local enough to know that there is "the usual relative vacant . . " I might guess that you can stop by there often. I enjoy shooting at any time, both alone as well as with other photographers. I don't feel obliged to follow a herd, but there is great comraderie to be had with other like minded souls and time to share tales and tips before and after shooting hours. After all, that comraderie is one of the reasons I frequent these forums!

[Michael Kadillak]

Unfortunately, in the public domain there is no exclusivity when it comes to the natural landscape. The other photographers have as much right to it as you. Your options are to change the perspective to exclude them, photoshop them out (if that is possible) or find a place that you can be by yourself.

On the other side of the equation I personally would go over and introduce yourself to the others in the possibility that they are reasonable and if there is a way to work together to help each other out because you may be in their view as well. Worth a shot.

Nice to see that there are others shooting because that means they must be purchasing sheet film.

Cheers!

[John Kasaian]

Hi Merg!

I seldom see any other large format photographers, much less a gang of them!

My guess would be that you came across some sort of workshop, in which case the facilitator could/should have given the troops a mini course in manners.

I always try to be polite to the public as well as other photographers I meet---it seems like good manners to let someone whos already on scene to "play through" and good manners to get out of the way so others can shoot when you're done.

Sounds like an otherwise great trip though.

Cheers!

[John_4185]

When a gang of photographers show up to point their cameras in the same direction as yours, it is time to seriously question your subject. I'd turn the camera around and photograph the photographers.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I'd probably do the same as jj, but I also suspect you ran into a workshop if they all showed up at once.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I think it is a question of manners, or lack there of.

Most photographers I run into are polite and respectful. I did have an occasion last year while in Yosemite to have a person actually come down to where I was photographing, look at me, look at what I was looking at and then place their tripod in front of mine!

I was kind of amazed and just stood there for a minute or two hoping this person would realize what he had done. But no, he just went on composing and working right in front of my scene. Finally I said, "Excuse me, but you are in my photograph" , to which he replied "Oh, I wish you would of told me sooner'.

I was going to jump his case for beign a rude S.O.B. but then I decided he was but a simple idiot and no matter what I said he would not understand. So I packed up the camera and left for a different location.

Manners and respect are, to an extent,greatly lacking today. People care only about what they are doing and have no idea what impact it might have on others.

A group of large format photographers is rare, so I agree that it must of been a workshop. However, I do believe that workshop or not, people should be aware of their actions and how it impacts others around them. Jsut because they showed up in a group doesn't give them the right to get in Merg's way while she was working. She has a right to be able to work on her art as much as they do even if the are paying a "guide" to take them to the best locations.

I always try to be polite, sometimes to a fault. I am at the point now however that I will always say something to someone who has ticked me off. While I know it won't change things at least I got my two cents worth in.

Merg, I hope you made a lot of other great images during your trip.

[Robert A. Zeichner]

I just returned from a trip to the Canadian Rockies with 5 other photographers. We were all trying to set up for a scene of Mt. Rundle refelcted in Vermillion Lake and were on the verge of tripping our shutters when a tour bus drove in on a road between us and the lake. This was a totally inappropriate road for such a vehicle and there wasn't even a place for it to turn around to get out. The bus parked and a herd of German tourists made a beeline for the hill on which we were standing. We were stunned as they surrounded us, clicking away with their digital point & shoots, getting in front of us and doing everything else they could to interrupt our activities. It was so hopeless, that one in our group just whipped out his digital camera and shot the rest of us being attacked. The bus then attempted to back out and nearly ran off the road just as it was beteween us and the scene. We all waved and shouted "right there, that's perfect". The driver opened his door and announced that he was simply trying to back out of the half mile road he let himself get conned into driving down and that he was not parking. The toruists seemed upset that they now had to walk back to the bus. What a firedrill that was. I guess sometimes, you just have to step back and laugh a bit, otherwise you just get upset and ruin your day. I'm certain we will enjoy a laugh or two whenever we recall this. I did get a couple of nice negatives afterall as I'm sure did the others.

[Merg Ross]

All good points. I did not mean to impart a sense of annoyance; in fact, the whole scene was rather amusing -- and, yes, good for the future of sheet film! I sincerely hope that the group came away with some very fine images. Anyway, I found plenty to photograph down the beach. Back to the darkroom.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Merg,

You didn't mention the location, but I'm guessing it was Cannon Beach (or maybe Ecola State Park just north of town). The wonderful thing is that the entire Oregon Coast is open to the public - all 360 miles of it. So, it's not usually too hard to find your own lonely section of beach to photograph in solitude.

I've spent quite a bit of time photographing at the Coast, and other than right at Haystack Rock, I seldom have to worry about peole getting in my shot. I tend to avoid the summer tourist season (I prefer the mountains in the summer). In all my years photographing at the Oregon Coast, I think I've seen two other large format photographers. So, the troupe you saw (a workshop, no doubt) is a rare event.

As far as the etiquette question... I'm a firm believer in first-come, first-served. If you're there first, you claim your spot and it's yours until you're done. I do recall an amusing situation in Zion Canyon a few years ago when two photographers set up at the same time, shooting in oppsitie direction, each in the other's shot. As they each had spent considerable time setting up, they both refused to move. A regular Texas stand-off. After much stomping around and waving of arms, words were exchanged, but both still refused to move. They were both still standing there when I left. I'm not sure if either ever got the shot the wanted. Sometimes it's more productive to just pack up and move on.

Although I shoot alone a lot, I have no problem shooting with others. I have one friend I've shot with for years, and we NEVER get photos that look remotely similar. We just see things differently. It works out well.

Kerry

[Craig Wactor]

Drink lots of beer the night before you go shooting. Eat beans for breakfast. The cloud of noxious gas surrounding you all day will act as a force-field to keep other photographers away.

[Joseph O'Neil]

I suppose it depends on where you setup. I was in Colorado this past summer in July, and three places stick out in my head:

1) Garden of the Gods in Colorado Springs.

What a bunch of *ssh*les! Sorry, but never in my life have I ever met so many rude people. Almost every time I setup my tripod and 4x5, somebody, from somewhere would walk or stand right in front of me and take a shot. It's almost as if "hey, look at that guy, he's got a tripod, shoot what he's doing quick!"

I dunno, but I wouldn't ever want to shoot there again unless I was well armed and had a half a dozen pit bulls on long leashes. Is there a way to mount a Speed Graphic on top of a .50 cal and maybe snap off a shot between tracer rounds?

Weird thing was, the people who lived in Colorado Springs, at least the ones I met, were all very nice. Even other toursity spots like Pike's Peak - all nice people. Go figure?

2) Aspen, Co.
What a totally amazing town to shoot large format in! I would go back there in a heartbeat. Abolute total opposite to my experience in the Garden of the Gods. Two things happened in Aspen. First, I have never in my life had some many strangers just come up out of the blue and compliment me on my 4x5, and be seriously interested in it.
Secondly, the moment I setup anywhere, no matter how crowded, peopel just got out of the way, even before I looked up.

It's almost as if they pour concentrated politeness in the tap water in Aspen. Key West, FL is a pretty good place to shoot large format - lots to image, and nice people there too (even the drunks there have a weird respect for my 4x5 when I used it), but Aspen was simply amazing.

When I win the big lottery....ah well.

3) Independance Pass, CO.
The whole route is amazing, and I highly reccomend it to any LF shooter. A few precautions to take for sure, but overall people were polite, nobody got in yoru way, but nobody paid much attention to you either whnever I pulled out my 45. pretty anonymous, which was okay by me.

so I think the best answer is where you shoot, more than what manners are or should be. For example, at home here, once I had an older homeless guy threaten me because he didn't wan't me to get his picture to the space aliens and the CIA. Or was it the NSA? Never mind I was shooting away from him, he knew how these things worked.

Conversely, first year I was in Key West, a homelss man said for a buck he'd tell me where all the good shooting spots were. he told me he wasn't hungry, but wanted a beer before lunchtime. I can respect honesty, so i figured, what the heck. SOB - turned out he really did know some good spots. I gave him a little extra to get that beer, and was possibly one of the best monies I spent that year.

have fun
joe

[Steve Feldman]

I take a bull horn along with me. When someone gets in my way I just yell out, "Get out of my picture or at least take off your clothes."

Works every time.

[John Cook]

Curmudgeon, your reply reminds me of an “issue” I have noticed at my local supermarket. The place is full of naive women who are blissfully unaware of anyone behind them who may also be trying to shop. With shopping cart parked sideways, blocking the aisle, they stand deep in thought, or perhaps intent on counting the ceiling tiles.

Once in a while I have the good fortune to shop at the same time as a very distinguished, well-dressed elderly gentleman who has found the perfect solution.

Doing his perfect impression of the actor Monty Woolley, he sings old Nelson Eddy - Jeanette MacDonald love songs at the top of his lungs. Absolutely scares the wits out of these self-absorbed thoughtless matrons. They scatter like sparrows.

Perhaps singing lessons should be in my future as well.

[Brian C. Miller]

Bring a chainsaw and a hockey mask. Works like a charm! :-)

Don't ask them to move. Just ask them to take their clothes off.

The only time that I've seen lots of other photographers is when I have been over to Heather Meadows near Mount Baker. There's a much-photographed lake which is a camera magnet. Nobody can get in each other's way because there's only a few feet of land that you can stand or else you're in the water or on the road.

I actually enjoy setting up my camera on the edge of a precipice. Nobody can get in front of my lens. Not for long, anyways!

Kerry: You should have set up your camera right between theirs, photographing at a 90-degree angle to the both of them. It wouldn't have even mattered if you actually exposed film, its just the idea that a third person can pop between both of them, and make a shot!

[Don Miller]

Just a gentle reminder.....

If people are only stepping in front of you after you emerge from the darkcloth, they are being polite. They just don't understand the process.

[Eric Rose]

If someone set up their tripod almost over top of mine, I would probably pull a Jack Nicholson and pee on the guys tripod. Gotta mark you spot ya know LOL.

[Mike Lyons]

Yep, they sound like familiar scenarios. I had a T-shirt printed with the the following on the back so that people could read it while I am under the focussing cloth.
1. Just because I can't see you doesn't mean I can't hear you.
2. Yes, I am taking a photo.
3. No, it isn't Digital.
4. I'll know when I get the film back.
and then in very small print, way down the bottom and purely due to the frustration in having missed so many shots due to feeling obliged to join in or answer inane questions about why was I using my Grandfathers camera etc
"now p*ss off"

[Nitish Kanabar]

I guess it really depends upon the people around you and their level of awareness (or lack thereof).

Apart from the usual observations and queries (does it shoot color? it is digital? But it looks upside down!) and the occasional thumbs-up, I've had two interesting experiences when shooting LF:

Mather Point, Grand Canyon. I arrived here before sunrise only to find more people than I expected. One 35mm photographer had taken up prime location and was eyeing my LF kit with unconcealed curiosity and amusement. We both had similar shots in mind - only problem was that he was in my shot and he knew it. To my surprise, he came up to me and offered to swap places. Said "I'll use the center column to raise my camera so that your gear won't obstruct my view, if you go a bit lower so you don't obstruct my view!". I thanked him and we both took our photographs with a smile on our faces.

Baker Beach, San Francisco. I was photographing the Golden Gate bridge at sunset with a group of 4 other photographers - all of us pointing in the same direction. There are large rocks in the foreground and the bridge in the background. To our dismay, a person walked past us upto the rocks, took off all his clothes and proceeded to stand statue-like on one of the rocks - there was no composition where that clown wasn't in the frame. Talk about being a wilful subject and unwilling photgraphers.

[Jim Galli]

Scientists must have discovered that Ansel set up HIS tripod at that exact spot 55 years ago according to steller data. That explains the host of LF'ers. You didn't want that shot anyways. Funny, I never have that problem around Tonopah.