Sekonic L758 Spot Meter Question

[IanBarber]

With the Sekonic L758 light meter set to read spot mode in EV mode

1. I meter something I want as middle gray and press the memory button
2. I meter the darkest area I want detail and press the memory button
3. I meter the brightest area I want detail and press the memory button

The meter indicates that the Low value is 2 stops darker than the Middle value and the High value is 3 stops brighter than the Middle value.

Question:
If I then press the AVE button to get an average and use that reading as my taking exposure is that effectively putting the Low values on Zone 3 and the High Values on Zone 8?

Have I got this right?

Thanks.

[ic-racer]

This is how I use my Sekonic L558 1deg spot meter with zone metering (0 = zone V; 1 = zone IV; 2 = zone III; 3 = zone II; 4 = zone I, etc.)

178434178435

[R.K]

With the Sekonic L758 light meter set to read spot mode in EV mode

1. I meter something I want as middle gray and press the memory button
2. I meter the darkest area I want detail and press the memory button
3. I meter the brightest area I want detail and press the memory button

The meter indicates that the Low value is 2 stops darker than the Middle value and the High value is 3 stops brighter than the Middle value.

Question:
If I then press the AVE button to get an average and use that reading as my taking exposure is that effectively putting the Low values on Zone 3 and the High Values on Zone 8?

Have I got this right?

Thanks.

No. In yours exemple you having an ideal situation. You already know what you want to be a middle gray value and it is the first measurement. The second and third measurements confirm that the important shadow value 2 stops darker, mean falling on Zone 3 and higlite values 3 stops above the first reading, so they falling on Zone 8. So the first reading will be the camera setting if you want that subgect to be on Zone 5. If you press the average button then you will get the exposure value somewhere between zones 5 and 8. The exposure will be a little bit shorter than yours first measurement and that mean that subgect you want to be a medium gray will be a bit darker.

[IanBarber]

No. In yours exemple you having an ideal situation. You already know what you want to be a middle gray value and it is the first measurement. The second and third measurements confirm that the important shadow value 2 stops darker, mean falling on Zone 3 and higlite values 3 stops above the first reading, so they falling on Zone 8. So the first reading will be the camera setting if you want that subgect to be on Zone 5. If you press the average button then you will get the exposure value somewhere between zones 5 and 8. The exposure will be a little bit shorter than yours first measurement and that mean that subgect you want to be a medium gray will be a bit darker.


Thanks for the reply.

Could you give me a rough idea how and when you would use the AVE button please

[R.K]

Thanks for the reply.

Could you give me a rough idea how and when you would use the AVE button please

Let say you have two readings. One for higlites and another for shadows, and those readings a 4 stops appart. In that case if you use average it will be exact in the middle betwin your readings. If you use that average values as the camera setting that will be your medium gray mean zone 5. And the shadows you read will be 2 stops darker and fall on zone3 and this is exactly what you want. The higlites reading will be 2 stops away from the average to, and they fall on Zone 7. And again this is a perfect situation, but if you use the zone system, this is the only one case when you can use the average button.

[esearing]

Average does not equal Zone V unless you want it to. It is merely the average of the measurements. It is still up to you to determine where shadows and highlights fall. Average is useful for 5 stops difference of scene contrast. But when you have 8 stops it would tend to lead you toward under exposure in your shadows. For me it is a visual reference. If my AVG reading (Zone V for the meter) is 3 stops more than my shadow, then I will likely add a stop of light so I bring that shadow up to zone 3, or maybe even zone 4 depending where the highlights fall.

You can also measure several areas with similar tones to get the average of those - Example I often measure several wet rocks around waterfalls to see the different EVs , and since my highlights will already be at zone 8 or higher I am more concerned about capturing the texture in the shadow/wet rocks. Or if shooting Ferns in a shaded meadow , maybe only 3 EVs difference, so one has to decide is that zones 4-6 or 5-7 or 3-5 and plan expansion (add contrast) or normal development.

[Alan9940]

Ian,

Here’s the way I meter with my Sekonic L558:

1. Meter dark area where I want detail and store value.
2. Meter light area where I want detail and store value.
3. Hit AVE button, then I hold down the measure button and scan the scene watching the EV difference from the average.
4. Adjust exposure accordingly.

For example, if during the scanning I find another dark area that reads, say, -2.9 then I make a decision. If I want detail in that area, the average reading will cause that area to be in Zone II so I give a bit more exposure. Harder to explain than to do...

And, as others have pointed out middle gray—18% reflectance—is not necessarily Zone V. Some meters use 18% for middle gray while others use 36%. I have to set the ISO on my Sekonic to half that of my calibrated Pentax Digital spot meter to get the same exposure readings.

[R.K]

Ian,

Here’s the way I meter with my Sekonic L558:

1. Meter dark area where I want detail and store value.
2. Meter light area where I want detail and store value.
3. Hit AVE button, then I hold down the measure button and scan the scene watching the EV difference from the average.
4. Adjust exposure accordingly.

For example, if during the scanning I find another dark area that reads, say, -2.9 then I make a decision. If I want detail in that area, the average reading will cause that area to be in Zone II so I give a bit more exposure. Harder to explain than to do...

And, as others have pointed out middle gray—18% reflectance—is not necessarily Zone V. Some meters use 18% for middle gray while others use 36%. I have to set the ISO on my Sekonic to half that of my calibrated Pentax Digital spot meter to get the same exposure readings.

Let say you light and shadow readings 10 EV apart. So what will you search for in the scene after pressing the average button?

[Alan9940]

Let say you light and shadow readings 10 EV apart. So what will you search for in the scene after pressing the average button?

Personally, I've never encountered any outdoor scene that I normally photograph that reveals a 10 EV range. But, if I did, then I'd need to decide which end of the exposure scale to bias the exposure. If I wanted full high value detail, then I'd expose accordingly and let the shadow end fall where it may, if the shadows weren't that important to me. If I needed to retain critical shadow areas, then I'd expose for them and do a minus development of the film to bring back the high value negative densities.

[R.K]

Personally, I've never encountered any outdoor scene that I normally photograph that reveals a 10 EV range. But, if I did, then I'd need to decide which end of the exposure scale to bias the exposure. If I wanted full high value detail, then I'd expose accordingly and let the shadow end fall where it may, if the shadows weren't that important to me. If I needed to retain critical shadow areas, then I'd expose for them and do a minus development of the film to bring back the high value negative densities.

So in most of the situations you don't nead an average value. Am I right?

[Alan9940]

So in most of the situations you don't nead an average value. Am I right?

If you have a spot meter with a Zone scale on it, and you expose/process using some semblance of the Zone System, then, no, you don't need to average. Simply place subject luminance values where you want them, adjust development as needed (assuming B&W film), and you're golden. You don't even need a spot meter, if you can accurately measure middle gray with whatever meter you have; read middle gray and do the mental calculations from there. Heck, you don't need any meter! Brett Weston never used one.

[Bill Burk]

And if you want a Zone Sticker for the Sekonic L758 here's the one I use...

Works for single spot readings (not memory)... Have the f/stops showing at the bottom... take a reading...

Sticker tells you which of the clipping point triangles to look at (sticker doesn't move and you don't try to slide to line up with the sticker... it's a mnemonic only)...

Depending on what Zone you want to place that reading at, the triangle on the meter scale (not the sticker) points to the f/stop to use at the given shutter speed.



http://beefalobill.com/images/zone.pdf

[IanBarber]

And if you want a Zone Sticker for the Sekonic L758 here's the one I use...

Works for single spot readings (not memory)... Have the f/stops showing at the bottom... take a reading...

Sticker tells you which of the clipping point triangles to look at (sticker doesn't move and you don't try to slide to line up with the sticker... it's a mnemonic only)...

Depending on what Zone you want to place that reading at, the triangle on the meter scale (not the sticker) points to the f/stop to use at the given shutter speed.



http://beefalobill.com/images/zone.pdf

Thanks Bill, I am going to try this, every little help to get me to meter better is going to be a bonus

[R.K]

If you have a spot meter with a Zone scale on it, and you expose/process using some semblance of the Zone System, then, no, you don't need to average. Simply place subject luminance values where you want them, adjust development as needed (assuming B&W film), and you're golden. You don't even need a spot meter, if you can accurately measure middle gray with whatever meter you have; read middle gray and do the mental calculations from there. Heck, you don't need any meter! Brett Weston never used one.

You right, the best pictures was made without a light meter in many cases.
But I’m certainly not that good and I’m using Sekonic. Before I used the spot with mechanical calculator and get used to it until I find that it not reliable any more. It was possible to adjust it, but the repair person told me that that particular model was not designed good from the beginning and instead of spending money on bad model to get another meter. I didn’t want again to spend money on something old and got a new Sekonic. The first impression was- it is a good meter, a lot of functions, but unfortunately no one can be used strait forward for the zone style reading. So I start with paper and pen, measure shadows , write results, measure highlights write results, calculate stops in between, calculate aperture and speed value if the shadow reading placed on zone 3, and finally taking picture. And I don’t like it. It takes too long to do all of this calculation. I start using memory. Maybe I’m not good with the short memory but after memorizing a 3 readings, I’m getting confused what was what. So I start thinking what I want from my meter. In general I want it to show me distance in stops or EV values between low and high readings and I want it to calculate aperture and time values for shadows placed on zone3. Yes I don’t want meter to read the shadows values for zone 5 and after adjust settings in my head to move shadows on zone 3. Another idea after some internet reading was try to switch to the aperture priority mode. So when I turn on my meter it always already set to the aperture somewhere around f16 or f22, because I want to have a sharp picture (except some particular cases of course). Another good thing in the aperture priority mode that I can see the EV scale at the bottom on the screen. So if I let say memorize 2 critical readings, then I will see how many stops or EV values they apart. The last thing to make meter give me right away readings for shadow placement on zone3. And this can be easily done by adjusting the ISO value on the meter. Let say, I have some film, and I want to shut it as ISO100. Instead of setting “ISO 1” button on the meter to ISO 100, I will set it 2 stops faster to ISO400. In that case when I measure the shadows, meter will give me speed and aperture I need to place my shadows on zone3.
So in the field. After setting up the camera. I take my meter and with measure button pressed searching the important highlights in the scene for the highest value. It is better to start from the highlights reading because if you measure shadows first and highlights second and save them both in the memory, you will need after to use meter “memory recall” function to go back to the shadow reading. Because I’m in the aperture priority mode the highest value will be when the shutter speed will be shortest. Say I found that spot and release the measure button. Without even looking on the screen I press the memo button and save the metered value in the memory. On the EV scale my saved highlights value will be in the 0 point. The second reading I do for the important shadow and save it in the memory. So my shadow reading now current on the display and the values displayed for zone 3 placement and I can right away transfer them to my shutter. Now I’m looking on the EV scale. I remember that my first reading saved on the 0 point of the EV scale, and let say my second reading located on the -4 point of the EV scale, than I have 4 stops between the shadows and highlights readings and if I keep shadows on the zone3 the highlights will be on zone7. If I like this scenario I can press the shutter right away. Of course if I have more than 4 or 5 EV values between measured points before pressing the shutter I’m thinking what to adjust. If I have some particular subject in the scene and I want it to be placed on some particular zone, then I will measure that subject and check on the EV scale how it will be located in the relationship to the shadows and thinking what to adjust and how to develop. But in simple situations I think this is a strait forward process. The “ISO 2” button I usually setting up for zone 7 reading. Let say if my film ISO 100 then “ISO 2” will be set to ISO25. During the day time shooting it is not very important, but if you taking the picture at night in darkness and meter can’t read the dark areas, I can read the value near the street light for example and put it on the zone7 and by pressing the “ISO 2” button meter will give me correct camera settings for my zone 7 placement. The Sekonic have 3 cameras setting, so my camera 1 preset for the ISO 100 film, Camera 2 for ISO 400 and Camera 3 left for incandesced light readings. Try it if you want.

[IanBarber]

Bob, how do you change between camera presets

[BrianShaw]

No matter how many of these schemes I’ve used, the vast majority of the time the final exposure was almost exactly what I got from an incident reading. So I do incident reading first and often skip the spot readings.

I’d much rather spend my time focusing and composing.

So in the end I end up wasting most of my L-558 capabilities. Oh well.

[R.K]

[QUOTE=IanBarber;1445874]Bob, how do you change between camera presets[/QUO

To change between cameras press and hold "ISO1" button and after press "Mid Tone" button. One press on the mid tone button will change camera 1 to camera 2 another press on the mid tone button will change to camera 3. Be Shure to press ISO 1 first, other ways mid tone button will work differently.

[dkonigs]

And, as others have pointed out middle gray—18% reflectance—is not necessarily Zone V. Some meters use 18% for middle gray while others use 36%. I have to set the ISO on my Sekonic to half that of my calibrated Pentax Digital spot meter to get the same exposure readings.

I have a Pentax Digital Spotmeter and a Sekonic L758, so I'm very much wondering about this. When I do side-by-side tests, there's a very obvious 2/3 stop difference between the readings on these two meters. Meanwhile, a modern digital camera tends to spot-meter a value in-between the two (or sometimes agrees with the Sekonic). Its making it hard for me to have any confidence in which reading is actually correct. (If I take a digital photo and look, the Pentax exposure is bright and the Sekonic is dark. Haven't compared /w film, because that's too hard for a quick side-by-side test.)

[Jac@stafford.net]

I have a Pentax Digital Spotmeter and a Sekonic L758, so I'm very much wondering about this. When I do side-by-side tests, there's a very obvious 2/3 stop difference between the readings on these two meters. Meanwhile, a modern digital camera tends to spot-meter a value in-between the two (or sometimes agrees with the Sekonic). Its making it hard for me to have any confidence in which reading is actually correct. (If I take a digital photo and look, the Pentax exposure is bright and the Sekonic is dark. Haven't compared /w film, because that's too hard for a quick side-by-side test.)

Film will be your authoritative source and you must test on film. Regardless of the terms ISO or ASA, digital has no such metric, instead it is the manufacturers' best approximation. Many of us underexpose slightly in digital because outcomes are better when we recover shadows while blown highlights can be impossible to recover.

[Bill Burk]

dkonigs,

If you can describe your method for side-by-side comparison, then it might be easier to troubleshoot.

For example if you still see 2/3 stop difference... the meters would be in disagreement if both tests were done using spotmeter in daylight with a quality grayscale by reflected light (or spotmeter readings taken of an arrangement that simulates a reference light source such as a translucent screen backlit with tungsten light bulb with an blue filter like 80B in the light path between bulb and meter somewhere).

Or if you were comparing the Sekonic L-758DR in incident mode with Pentax spotmeter, well... there you have it. There's often a difference between the two metering modes. In that case you need not be concerned, simply take the meter reading you believe to be most appropriate for the work you are doing. (Example, black and white negatives I usually choose the greater exposure).

[Tin Can]

When I first bought a 758 I 'calibrated' DSLR to it with https://www.sekonic.com/united-states/products/l-758dr-u/overview.aspx

Absolute insanity, I used the Target, etc

This is years before I joined here and started LF.

Now I use it the way several have posted.

And I always try to guess my exposure first then use the 758. Sometimes it agrees with me. Then I may shoot 2, first my guess then it's.

May as well keep the expensive widget.

On strobes it exactly matches my PCB Cyber Commander. The strobes are linear stop to stop , so i never need to check again with 758.

[tgtaylor]

The average button works best by taking a number of readings from different areas of the scene storing each one noting where your shadow and highlight fell. Then use the average button which will give you an average of all the readings taken. Will that reading work with your shadow and highlight area? Incidentally this is the same technique used in the Pentax 67II meter which received worldwide critical acclaim and testig the L758 side by side with my P67II led to identical exposure readings.

After purchasing the L758DR new I worked with it alongside with my Pentax digital spotmeter for several weeks before selling the latter. I tested it in the field and at home where I would take a spot reading with each and compare the results which were identical once the 1/10 stop ability of the Sekonic was taken into account:

In excellent condition. I purchased the meter new from B&H and never required servicing. Shows slight brassing where the holster grabs the gun but otherwise no scratches or dings. It was well cared for. Comes with front cap, instruction booklet, Zone VI leather holster, and 2 new A544 batteries. For the past couple of weeks the meter was used side-by-side with a new Sekonic L-758DR and except for the 1/10 stop capability of the Sekonic, both meters agreed perfectly. $200 + actual shipping from zip 94030. Paypal preferred but will accept MO and check in which case the meter will ship when payment clears.

Thomas

[ic-racer]

I have a Pentax Digital Spotmeter and a Sekonic L758, so I'm very much wondering about this. When I do side-by-side tests, there's a very obvious 2/3 stop difference between the readings on these two meters. Meanwhile, a modern digital camera tends to spot-meter a value in-between the two (or sometimes agrees with the Sekonic). Its making it hard for me to have any confidence in which reading is actually correct. (If I take a digital photo and look, the Pentax exposure is bright and the Sekonic is dark. Haven't compared /w film, because that's too hard for a quick side-by-side test.)

Page 37:

187835

[Jac@stafford.net]

Averaging results give average outcomes, or not. The result depends entirely upon the expertise of who is handling the meter.

[dkonigs]

Page 37:

187835

Thanks for pointing out this section of the manual. For some reason, I never noticed it. Earlier this morning, I was exploring doing this via the camera profiles, but this approach is easier/better.

What I think I want to do, is find a series of good reference setups and adjust this thing so it matches the reading of a "reference" meter. I just need to decide what to use as my reference. (Unlike these dedicated meters, all of my cameras with TTL meters actually seem to agree with each other with reasonable consistency. So maybe I'll just use a selection of those as my reference.)

[Jac@stafford.net]

What I think I want to do, is find a series of good reference setups and adjust this thing so it matches the reading of a "reference" meter.

And what is a reference meter? Something from a Platonic ideal of forms? Forget about it!

Test.

Regardless of what one can read about meter behavior the manufacturer cannot possibly know or be responsible for individuals' practice in real life. Too many variables.

Test.

[Laminarman]

I have an L858 that was free to me from a research project we did in our office. I hate the damn thing. Too many menus and buttons and they touch screen isn't that great. Thank you for this thread, doing any semblance of a Zone system type metering is just tedious. Wish someone would make a new zone system type 1 degree spot that does that, and that alone. Bring back the Pentax.

[Laminarman]

Ian,

Here’s the way I meter with my Sekonic L558:

1. Meter dark area where I want detail and store value.
2. Meter light area where I want detail and store value.
3. Hit AVE button, then I hold down the measure button and scan the scene watching the EV difference from the average.
4. Adjust exposure accordingly.

For example, if during the scanning I find another dark area that reads, say, -2.9 then I make a decision. If I want detail in that area, the average reading will cause that area to be in Zone II so I give a bit more exposure. Harder to explain than to do...

And, as others have pointed out middle gray—18% reflectance—is not necessarily Zone V. Some meters use 18% for middle gray while others use 36%. I have to set the ISO on my Sekonic to half that of my calibrated Pentax Digital spot meter to get the same exposure readings.

So Alan, if you scan around the scene and see -1.0 EV or +2.0EV, is that one zone lower and two higher, respectively? Roughly? That would make sense, I'm in my office playing with that right now.

[Alan9940]

So Alan, if you scan around the scene and see -1.0 EV or +2.0EV, is that one zone lower and two higher, respectively? Roughly? That would make sense, I'm in my office playing with that right now.

Yes. If shooting transparency film, you shouldn't be beyond +2 to -2.