Espon V850 and Better Scanning wet scan holder

[Steven Ruttenberg]

So, I just got my replacement V850, the other two Epson sent had dirt on the inside of the glass. This one does, but not in image area. Any, I am trying to calibrate the focus using the Better Scanning set up again only this time, I have run the range of 0 adj all the way out to 3 or 4 full turns and the image doesn't seem to get better or worse. In fact, in Vuescan, the preview images look great, but the image after scan looks like crap and when I open in PS, looks like crap. What I am I doing wrong? The slide is absolutely focused tack sharp over the entire depth of field.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Here is what I am doing. I am doing the preview scan then selecting an area to do final scan on to scan at output resolution faster. Could this be the issue? Because the preview scans of the whole image look tack sharp, even at various height settings the preview looks better than the final image?

[Steven Ruttenberg]

And if I save the whole preview image it is sharp. So I don't get it? Is the scanner busted from the factory?

[minh0204]

This sounds more of a software than a hardware problem. May I suggest that you retry the procedure (scanning a small section at different heights) with Epson Scan?

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Sure. It will be a week though on the road. Interesting comparison I scanned full slide a at 1000 dpi and it was sharper than scanned crop.

[Doug Fisher]

Steve -

Are you sure that you have "film with film holder" selected in the software? This not being set correctly is often the reason for the problem you describe. You have to check this each time before you hit the scan button to make sure it has not changed.

Doug

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I will check this but I don't believe Vuescan has that as an option. When I first got the holder I calibrated it with 1 full turn and things great. Got replacement scanner now being difficult. I was trying to caliber ate at can resolution of 4000 dpi by choosing a section of preview scan. I am wondering if this is the issue in that it is not only scanning just that area, but it is enlarging it as well. I did a quickie 1000dpi full scan with Better scanning glass directly on scanner be film between the t would and that looked better.

I am starting to think a scan of the full image needs to be done in order to properly calibrate and could use lower scan dpi like 1500-2000 for expediency. Just a thought.

[IanBarber]

can you show screen shots of the Input and Output tab of VueScan

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Today, during lunch, I was carefully looking at the slide and noticed an area in between the branches at the most forward (closest to camera) and a few feet beyond that that was not in focus. The branches were sharp, but the ground just behind and back a few feet were not. Everything from that point and back was sharp again all the way to the mountains. The antenna farm was in focus as well.
What I believe happened, was that the tilt was a little too much so the point where the plane of focus passed underneath the lens was above ground a bit. This placed the focus "wedge" so that the branches closest to the camera intruded into this wedge thereby they are sharp whereas, the portion of the ground from the branches back several feet were outside (below) the wedge.

If you carefully scan the entire image on the light table it becomes apparent that the foreground and forward a few feet are not focused well. So, when I chose the cropped area to scan I just happened to pick this area, never thought to think it was out since looking at the image with a 3.5X loupe everything looked great. Not until you study the image a bit do you see that this area is indeed out of focus. So obviously no matter what I did for adjustments it would never be in focus. However, it never got worse either.

I am going to go back and choose an area that I can see for sure is well focused and go thru the process again starting from Epson's default height (adj screws flush) and then go from there. I will also take screen shots of the input and output tabs. I can't do any of this till this Friday as I am on travel.

[Doug Fisher]

>>I will check this but I don't believe Vuescan has that as an option. <<

While it sounds like you have solved your issue, for future reference, Vuescan does have this setting although it uses slightly different wording compared to EpsonScan. This is how the scanner knows which of its two lenses to use.

For the Epson flatbeds, a piece of exposed and developed film with a cross-hatch pattern lightly scratched across it with a very fine/sharp needle can be a useful focus testing pattern. Run your test scans at 3200 ppi. The ripples along the edge of the scratch often provide the best detail to use for judgement. That way, you don't have to worry about whether you had your camera lens focused well and/or that you are choose an evaluation subject in the scene that was in the intended plan of focus (which seems might have been what tripped you up during your last test).

Doug

[Steven Ruttenberg]

>>I will check this but I don't believe Vuescan has that as an option. <<

While it sounds like you have solved your issue, for future reference, Vuescan does have this setting although it uses slightly different wording compared to EpsonScan. This is how the scanner knows which of its two lenses to use.

For the Epson flatbeds, a piece of exposed and developed film with a cross-hatch pattern lightly scratched across it with a very fine/sharp needle can be a useful focus testing pattern. Run your test scans at 3200 ppi. The ripples along the edge of the scratch often provide the best detail to use for judgement. That way, you don't have to worry about whether you had your camera lens focused well and/or that you are choose an evaluation subject in the scene that was in the intended plan of focus (which seems might have been what tripped you up during your last test).

Doug

That sounds like a plan. I was gonna buy a test target, but your method is a lot cheaper! What does Vuescan call it? Maybe I have it set wrong and dont know it.

Thanks for the help!

[kevincook]

You are making sure to use "film with film holder" in the settings, correct?

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Viewscan does not have that option to choose. Apparently there is a way to do that, that isn't labeled as such. One thing I did find out, is that there is a film scan guide bar that you put in the calibration area if you want to scan film directly off the scanner glass. You use it with 8x10 film, but it will work with any. This bar causes the scanner to focus on the scan glass and not above it. Also, if you choose scan transparencies it automatically uses the higher resolution camera which can give you the theoretical 6400dpi. If it is set to print it will use the "lower" res camera which gives you a max of 4800 dpi. At least that is what I read.

I do have some scans using the Betterscanning and Epson fluid mount that are very sharp. Just when I swapped out the scanner for the replacement that was sent to me I ran into the focus issues.

[IanBarber]

On the Input Tab next to the Mode option there is a drop down list.

176582

Transparency should be selected when using a film holder including the Epson Wet Mount holder. This will select the high resolution lens and have a narrower scan area down the centre.
Transparency 8x10 should be s elected when scanning direct on-top of the scanner glass. This will select the lower resolution lens and have a wider scan area.

[Ted Baker]

Also, if you choose scan transparencies it automatically uses the higher resolution camera which can give you the theoretical 6400dpi.

When you choose transparency it changes lenses. It changes to a longer focal length lens (which should have a narrow depth of field) that is focused slightly higher about the glass.

Both lens are wide angle lens with fixed focus AFAIK. The pixel density never changes, even when you change resolutions.

[IanBarber]

176589 176590

This is from the V800 Service Manual

[Steven Ruttenberg]

176598


According to the V850 manual you put this plastic piece in calibration area and it simply imforms lens to FOCUS ON the glass and not above it. It makes no mention of a hi resoultion or low resolution lense being chosen. When I read that and the specs on what a transparency can be scanned at, I think you get hi res lens on scanner glass and above glass in a holder and they just change how much of the sensor is active on scanning based on whether or not you use the scan guide they give you with scanner.

Very interesting topic. Would be cool if we could get the actual functioning directly from Epson.

[Ted Baker]

the service manual shows the two lens and how they are setup with the mirrors etc.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1000666/Epson-Perfection-V700-Photo.html?page=11&term=warm

They are fixed focus according to the service manuals.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Well that settles that. They say high resolution not low though. So I would guess there should be similar performance as you just need a wider angle lens for greater coverage.

[Ted Baker]

Well that settles that. They say high resolution not low though. So I would guess there should be similar performance as you just need a wider angle lens for greater coverage.

The pixel scanning size never actually changes, only the lens change, which gives a greater magnification, and also the pixel shift algorithm kicks in from 3200dpi or before.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

So much to learn to use this mechanical marvel effectively.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Right now I am calibrating per Doug suggestion on scratching a hatch pattern into and exposed piece of film. I have progressed from 0 to 1.5 turns, so far, 1.25 is the best, waiting for 1.5. If worse, I will back off to 1.375 turns and see. 1.5 got better still. I hope it tops out at 1.75, the scanner lid is already needing to be pulled up a bit in the back which is no biggie as it is designed for that, but rather not if I don't have to. The real test will be scanning an actual 4x5 slide that I have and is so in focus, people comment it looks 3D when viewing on light board with eye loupe.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Went down from 1.75 to 1.5625 turns. No real difference. When I look at 1.5, 1.5625 and 1.75 I think I see a difference, but then I don't. So I will start by splitting difference and use 1.5625. I should get a target just for giggle, but the real test will be comparing scan of slide to the actual.

[chassis]

Steven what is the height in mm, that relates to 1.5625 turns? Lots of reports of people using roughly 3mm scanner glass to film height for these machines, as optimal focus height.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

It equates to approximately 2.8 mm. I made some minor improvements to the holder screws by adding thread tape to them as they were very loose in the holes (could easily be moved). I also adjusted the scanner lid so it will sit evenly on the holder now. If lid brackets are fully in as normal the lid will preload the end of the holder closet to the lid hinges which can cause the holder to not sit evenly on the scanner glass. I went back and currently trying it at 1.75 turns which is approximately 3mm height of Mount glass to scanner glass.

[chassis]

Thanks Steven.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

No problem. I will measure the final distance and post. But I ended up at 2 full turns which is 1.6mm per instructions. The starting height with no adjustment is approximately 1.5mm. So I am arou d 3.1-3.2 mm scanner glass to ANR glass. See my post on practice image.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?145243-Practice-image-Cholla-Cacti-and-Barrel-Cacti

[Alan Klein]

the service manual shows the two lens and how they are setup with the mirrors etc.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1000666/Epson-Perfection-V700-Photo.html?page=11&term=warm

They are fixed focus according to the service manuals.
Do you know where I can find the service manual for the V600?