Anyone fixed a warped rear standard frame?

[Tim V]

Hi all,

I've discovered that the rear standard frame of my GIbellini AC-D has warped. Short of a: sending it back to Gibellini to refabricate another one, or b: getting someone locally (I'm in NZ) to reverse engineer and manufacture a new frame for me, I'm wondering if other people have had success in fixing something like this?

I'm thinking that I could ask a conservation framer for help – maybe they have experience in fixing heritage frames that are bent, etc. – and maybe they might have some kind of idea how to steam then clamp it back into place, but perhaps other people here have some expereince fixing things like this themselves?

Any advise greatly appreciated as I'm stressing out!

Thanks,

Tim

[B.S.Kumar]

A local framer or furniture restorer might be a good place to ask. I'm not sure what it looks like, but maybe Gibellini could simply send you the part with clear instructions on how to attach it?

Kumar

[Steven Tribe]

The only problems with twist distortions I have had, have been in very large plate holders (12x15 and 12x16") which had been stored incorrectly for decades. I was able to reduce the twist ( over 2" corner to corner) using steam and compression down to about 1/4" which means they can be mounted on the back, without stressing the supports.

This drying-out twist you have, will not respond to treatment. Either the grain selection for the frame is wrong, or the wood was not completely mature enough. If you want certainty, then get hold of some aged, unwanted piece of furniture made with a suitable hard wood. Finding wood suitable for construction at timber yards can be done, but stock is generally quite new and without the diversity of decades ago with "exotic" wood types collecting dust in forgotten corners of the yard!

If it is a metal frame, not wood, then distortion can occur because of metal "creep" or developed internal metal stress. I had an aluminium Ford sump from the 30's which developed a crack from metal creep!

[Pfsor]

Why don't you just exchange it for a new one at Gibellini? What is simpler than that?

[Tracy Storer]

It's a fairly new camera, Gibellini should fix it.

[Dan Fromm]

What am I missing? I thought that Gibillini cameras were a mixture of metal and synthetics. What can warp?

[Steven Tribe]

See post #3 - last paragraph.

There is nothing about metals and "plastics" that excludes changes (post- manufacture) especially in a thin frame constructions.

Obviously, the maker should replace this and, perhaps, reconsider this choice of material or production process.

[Tim V]

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies.

The frame is made out of mahogany. It's an earlier model – I think their first model.

I have been in contact with Gibellini but the communication is a little difficult. It's an expensive replacement, It seems, so I was hoping to find a way to fix it on my end. Worst comes to worst, I will try find someone with a CNC machine to make a new one.

[Jac@stafford.net]

As a maker myself, I would look to the fasteners to see if there is an issue with uneven torque (tightening) and if applying a screwdriver or such might fix it.

Best of luck!

[Luis-F-S]

Richard Ritter can

[Bob Salomon]

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies.

The frame is made out of mahogany. It's an earlier model – I think their first model.

I have been in contact with Gibellini but the communication is a little difficult. It's an expensive replacement, It seems, so I was hoping to find a way to fix it on my end. Worst comes to worst, I will try find someone with a CNC machine to make a new one.
If it is warped they should take responsibility for it regardless of age or cost! This is their reputation on the line!

[Steven Tribe]

.............I have been in contact with Gibellini but the communication is a little difficult. It's an expensive replacement, It seems.................

Which is exactly what I had imagined before answering! Plus he may want you to post the camera back to Italy as there may be differences in hand built mahogany cameras - most of older mahogany cameras had fitting codes stamped on loose parts.

I would drop the stress of geting a solution in Italy and have someone local make a clone.

[Tim V]

I emailed Richard last week, but he hasn't responded yet.

Might try again in a few days.

Thanks also for the tip re. the fasteners. I'll check that out.

T

[LabRat]

Worst case scenario is restoring part/back by firm clamping down to a truly flat plate, and heating with a heat gun (moving quickly) for 10 min or so, and leaving it clamped for many hours... This re-melts the ligens in the wood and can re-set it (but the finish can be affected)...

YMMV

They do this with guitar necks...

Steve K

[Pfsor]

Hi all,
I have been in contact with Gibellini but the communication is a little difficult. It's an expensive replacement, It seems, so I was hoping to find a way to fix it on my end. Worst comes to worst, I will try find someone with a CNC machine to make a new one.

And you think it'll be less expensive than to pursue your communication with Gibellini? I don't get your logic.

[Luis-F-S]

I emailed Richard last week, but he hasn't responded yet.
T
I' call him. L

[Tim V]

And you think it'll be less expensive than to pursue your communication with Gibellini? I don't get your logic.

You don't get my logic? I have friends with CNC machines and I work in a field with colleagues who have a lot of knowledge in conservation of materials like these. If people have the time – that's the limiting factor, really – but also inclimation to help, why not explore the options? It's not exactly cheap to ship things to and from Italy from New Zealand, especially as Gibellini want me to send the entire camera.

In any event, I'd prefer to get Gibellini to do the work as I like to support their business. I think they make great products and their new cameras look amazing (I wish I could play with one.) There's not a big space in the LF camera maker market for lots of players, so I commend anyone who makes a go of making them for a living.

Anyway, Alessandro has just been in contact and I trust he will look after me and fix the camera – it's not under warrenty and I never expected it to be a cheap or free fix. When I lock down some final details re. the probable price for the fix plus some extra small modifications, I will send the camera his way. Hopefully this week.

T

[Pfsor]

Anyway, Alessandro has just been in contact and I trust he will look after me and fix the camera – it's not under warrenty and I never expected it to be a cheap or free fix. When I lock down some final details re. the probable price for the fix plus some extra small modifications, I will send the camera his way. Hopefully this week.

T

That's what I would do too, in your shoes. Good luck!

[Fred L]

...I never expected it to be a cheap or free fix.

this SHOULD be a free fix imo, as I've never had a back warp on me. Wista (4x5 and 8x10), multiple Zone VI nor my current Canham. None of my friends have ever had this issue either. As some noted, cld be improperly season wood or other manufacturing issue. Paying for return shipping I can see, but that's it.

[Bob Salomon]

this SHOULD be a free fix imo, as I've never had a back warp on me. Wista (4x5 and 8x10), multiple Zone VI nor my current Canham. None of my friends have ever had this issue either. As some noted, cld be improperly season wood or other manufacturing issue. Paying for return shipping I can see, but that's it.

If it is truly a warped back then there should be no charge to the owner for the part, replacement or shipping. This would be an extremely serious defect that the manufacturer should make every effort to resolve at their expense. Not a customer’s expense.
This is after my over 35 years as the former US Linhof distributor.

[Tim V]

Thanks again, all.

While I appreciate the opinion that Gibellini should replace the frame for free – I'd be lying if I didn't secretly hope that would be the case, who wouldn't to save money? – I'm realistic about the fact that the camera is out of warranty; that I'm not the original owner and have no idea what the camera has been through. It looks otherwise almost mint, but it does look like it has seen some wet plate work. I plan to send them the camera to them tomorrow, and who knows. Maybe they will take pity on me.

[John Kasaian]

You might be able to get Peaches to sit on your frame and flatten it..
Peaches is an inmate at a nearby women's prison.
A pal who taught woodshop there told me about her.
Peaches is so heavy she murdered another inmate by sitting on her head and suffocating her.
My pal quite his job there shortly afterwards.

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks again, all.

While I appreciate the opinion that Gibellini should replace the frame for free – I'd be lying if I didn't secretly hope that would be the case, who wouldn't to save money? – I'm realistic about the fact that the camera is out of warranty; that I'm not the original owner and have no idea what the camera has been through. It looks otherwise almost mint, but it does look like it has seen some wet plate work. I plan to send them the camera to them tomorrow, and who knows. Maybe they will take pity on me.

Tim, new or used a quality camera should not warp. If it does warp, assuming someone didn’t intentially cause the warpage, the camera is grossly defective, incapable of doing what it was designed for.
There should be no question that a quality conscious, ethical manufacturer would not resolve this issue with no cost to the owner and in a minimal time frame.
There is no reason for you to be anything other then insistent that this problem be taken care of in your favor!

[LabRat]

Thanks again, all.

While I appreciate the opinion that Gibellini should replace the frame for free – I'd be lying if I didn't secretly hope that would be the case, who wouldn't to save money? – I'm realistic about the fact that the camera is out of warranty; that I'm not the original owner and have no idea what the camera has been through. It looks otherwise almost mint, but it does look like it has seen some wet plate work. I plan to send them the camera to them tomorrow, and who knows. Maybe they will take pity on me.

It's too easy to get bad press/reviews these days due to the net, I mean if a business or professional I'm dealing with gets an attitude or difficult to honor a service on me, as a worst case, I politely mention to them that I plan to leave comments online about my experience, and then hear their attitudes change!!! ;-)

We are discussing this topic online right now, right???

Steve K

[Louis Pacilla]

Tim, new or used a quality camera should not warp. If it does warp, assuming someone didn’t intentially cause the warpage, the camera is grossly defective, incapable of doing what it was designed for.
There should be no question that a quality conscious, ethical manufacturer would not resolve this issue with no cost to the owner and in a minimal time frame.
There i# no reason for you to be anything other then insistent that this problem be taken care of in your favor!

I agree w/ Bob here.

Even though you did not buy this 8x10 new I'm sure you paid a handsome enough used price for the camera & I assume the camera over all looks newish, right? It just seems like something a builder WOULD want to straighten out for his reputation sake.

It would be different if your Gibellini was bought in poor used condition w/ damage and in general beet up or if it was a camera built 40 years ago showing loads of usage. In those cases Gibellini would then have a leg to stand on.

Seeing how we our a large part of his target audience he loses potential customers being unresponsive and not wanting to stand behind product and fix his cameras build quality issues as/if they arise.

Just my 2ct

[Fred L]

my dos pesos again. Seeing as how you bought this camera used and are not the original owner, they shld still send a new replacement back (as Bob noted, well built cameras don't develop warped backs), but shipping is on your dime. If you bought it new, they should cover everything.

[Tim V]

Update:

Well, I sent the camera back to Italy in the middle of February. It has been stuck in Italian customs since the 27th of February, 2 months! The courier has stated that Italy Post say one thing one day, another thing the opposite, and are useless to communicate with.

What is certain is that Gibellini filled in all the appropriate paperwork and sent it to customs – in other words they Gibellini did all they could – but Italy Post can't seem to get their act together, even stating all is order and ready to be delivered, then suddenly renegging and asking for more paperwork. It's looking like it'll never reach the factory, which is unfortunate as Alessandro was to not only repair my rear frame but also do some modifications to make the camera easier to both set up and operate.

Richard RItter never replied to my email, so that counted him out. So back to the drawing board, although I'm suspicious that I may never see the camer again. It's insured, but NZ courier won't let me file for a lost package until it's deemed not sitting on a shelf in Italy...

Anyway, I guess this could happen if sending anywhere in the world, not just Italy. Frustrating none the less. Just another pitfall of living in the antipodes...