Where are the great shots? Am I a cynicist or a realist?

[Jim Galli]

Hard to imagine that it has been 25 years now that I have pursued artistic photography.

In a recent thread an OP asks about where the good shots are near Portland. Change the name and we see the same querry a thousand times here. And I guess I'm getting a bit cynical.

It's absolutely OK to ask the question. But since I have a married daughter in Oregon and have been up and down more of the Oregon outback than most Oregon residents I couldn't help but think to myself, another worn out shot of the sea stacks. LF black and white fine art version. Crystal sharp with 90 second exposure so the sea looks like a blurred gray fog and the fabulous rocks break through gloriously.

The thing is, after 25 years, I have all the right gear and the know how to do that and every other iconic shot, but my question is, who cares. No one will ever see it. No one wants to see it. The awesome 8X10 negative will languish in a thin oak drawer up in my studio until I'm gone and someone takes the whole pile to the rubbish heap.

I'm especially cynical about all the Bodie ghost town type shots where you get to know the names of every building in Bodie after a while. Whoopee. Painfully worn out.

It's unnecessary to attempt to correct me and give me all the arguments I've already given others about "you do it for you" etc. nothing else matters, every artist brings his unique vision, blah blah blah. Heard them all. GIVEN them all.

Ultimately, I'm still going, still enjoying. I get worked up over some antique lens that I think really may have some unique signature. But ultimately the wind in the sails 25 years ago is largely gone. The wisest man that ever lived may have said it best. All is vanity and striving after wind.


get some fuel boys, and some matches, we've got a heretic to burn

[goamules]

There seems to be a lot of this sentiment going around. I just had my birthday, and was thinking, "now what?" But I talked to my dad a week or two ago, now pushing 80, he said "The candle blows out too soon. frankly, I'm kind of sorry it's about over..."

I think your photographs have and can change a few people. Your lens excitement too. All of us have that to pass along: our enthusiasm for life. Because even writing (my dad said a few years ago I should write a book, to leave a legacy) get's forgotten over the years. Look at all the old masters and lens experts we read...but 99.999 % of the others in the world never will.

Maybe it's better to photograph things that are transitory: live people. Rocks and trees and Bodie never change, so any shot taken any time is the same.

[ghostcount]

"People say youth is wasted on the young. I disagree. I believe wisdom is wasted on the old. All you can do is part with it, but very few will take it, least of all the people closest to you. They want no part of it." - Reddington

[John Olsen]

1. Maybe it's the problem of only wanting to do the "great shots." Admitting that the famous landscape panoramas are exhausted as far as new material goes, will allow us to search out the lesser treasures that are scattered all over the place. Forget about driving all the way to Yosemite and cruise down the nearby backroads, looking for images on a more personal scale. Some of the contributors to LFF have been doing that and finding amazing compositions.

2. Yeah, it's all going to the dump when I kick the bucket, except for the small part that gets sold beforehand.

3. My "Bodie" images are not from the California "Bodie," but I hear what you're saying.

4. I get grumpy too in mid-winter; Spring will be here soon.

[Michael Clark]

Jim, so you are saying that your "Lets get going, got up and left" try selling the old Model T's and start fix' en up old Tayota's and get a Holga or even a light weight Rolliecord .Keep that amazing web site of yours, it is priceless.
Mike

[Tin Can]

Live by example and tell quick stories

Our lenses have seen generations pass through them

Maybe that's where Art lives

[xkaes]

You're not the first "artist" that has dealt with this issue, of course. I'm sure there countless book about it. Some long-term writers have gotten back to their craft after a short hiatus. Many painters quit after only a short try at their art. Photographers are the same. Whatever the craft, people enter it -- and leave it (temporarily or permanently) -- for different reasons. Burn-out can be permanent or temporary. What path works for you is not something you need to figure out today, or next month. You might just need a short break, making a longer one, or maybe a permanent one. Here are some pertinent lyrics that I'm sure you will remember:

"If there's a bustle in your hedgerow
Don't be alarmed now
It's just a spring clean for the May queen
Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on
And it makes me wonder"

[ericantonio]

Great insight Mr. Galli! I feel the same way. How many pictures of the Flatiron building can I take? How many pretty pictures of the ocean can I take. I see the real ocean almost every day here in SoCal.

That's why I prefer reportage and portraits cause they always change and it's that instant of time that you will never see again. The ocean will look the same, that Joshua Tree will look the same now, next year, and the year after.

But I do like seeing landscapes of places I've never been too. I don't think if I ever do get to those places, will I take that picture cause there will always be someone else who is so much better at it than I am.

[Hugo Zhang]

Jim,

I am doing this for 15 years, not 25. But I am with you and can feel what you are going through. Maybe you should try to shoot more live people than dead things? I still remember how inspired I was by your portraits made with old lenses. What happened? Why stop? You can find enough people in your church or in Tonopah or when you travel.

That's what I have been doing lately. I have made about 200-300 pictures of people in the past two years. With Graflex 45 to 11x14, mostly WP sizes. I like the social part of this as each face is a new story for me. They are usually fascinated by the camera, lens and dark cloth. We chatted and I observed and sometimes I asked to take their pictures. For most people, this is very unique experience for them. Nobody has told them to stare into the big lens and hold still for 20 seconds. The best part of course is when you give them the matted prints. Some people even joked, maybe not, that they would use it for their funeral. The bonus part is when wives came up to tell you how they liked the pictures of their husbands, then you know what you did have given some pleasure to others you even don't know. Occasionally people ask for reprints for their mothers and then I would charge a bit.

I still make pictures of buildings, trees and seas, and sometimes I got lucky and got something I really like. But I am fully aware this happiness is not a shared one, but I like it anyway. A little correction: sometimes I do sell a few prints of flowers and sea rocks to strangers which means my photography of dead things is not totally for myself to enjoy alone.

Jim, maybe you should organize a get-together in Tonopah soon?

Hugo

[Dan Fromm]

Jimbo, if you don't enjoy what you're doing, find something else to do. There are many other ways to pass the time. If you enjoy it, keep on doing it and stop whining.

[xkaes]

Jimbo, if you don't enjoy what you're doing, find something else to do. There are many other ways to pass the time. If you enjoy it, keep on doing it and stop whining.

Fortunately, there are some of us here that have no need to simplistically label his dilemma as "whining". I have always been under the impression that discussion Forums existed to encourage and support each other, as opposed to trashing each other with "You are a complete idiot if you do it that way" comments.

[DrTang]

that's why I shoot people and not docks and weeds.. people are always different and interesting.. and you can talk to them while.. and that's interesting

OTOH..my pix will end up in the landfill just like everyone elses

I guess I'm kinda hoping that a few subjects will keep their pix around long enough to 'impress and shock' all the guys in the old folks home where they then reside

hahahah - that's kinda worth it

[jp]

Regarding the original post, looking to rephotograph scenes shot ad nauseum brings out some mutual cynicism to me because of what's unsaid.. They aren't will to look for beauty. They won't seek beauty. They want to schedule and organize their access to what they hope is beauty in advance of their visit with someone's help. Their eyes are closed and they don't know it.

(To such a person's credit, perhaps their creativity is in building or improving the camera, not actually shooting film.)

I was walking in the snow this morning and the way the wind had blown it and the light was low, I was in awe, like God had perfectly sculpted the flakes where they fell. The texture I could not photograph for keeping or sharing, but I could see it and was glad I was out making photos and enjoying nature.

What other photographers have done is very important to me... Eliot Porter's Maine photos for example helped me see my home area in a way that resonated and showed me things about my surrounding no other photographers had done. I have no shame emulating his style or seeing, but make no attempt to find the same tripod holes or same rocks or trees.

I think trees are not so different than people, except they are more flexible with their schedule. Vintage cars are as timeless as rocks, but I still photograph them and enjoy it. Related subjects like weather and sea are always changing, so that is a good impetus to photograph or at least be on the lookout.

Putting photographs online to help people with their process or seeing is a useful aspect of art photography, probably more beneficial than selling work. Jim, more people will enjoy your website than whatever happens to your negatives.. We hear all the time about the bad stuff about sharing too much online. We don't hear the self-evident good side. Remember what happened to something as special as the Ark of the Convenent in the Indiana Jones movie? If something prestigious happens to our negatives, they might end up in a box near the ark, never to be seen again.

[DrTang]

Jim, maybe you should organize a get-together in Tonopah soon?

Hugo

I second that.. at the Clown Motel of course.. I'll bring a couple handles and some prints ..hell..maybe even try to drag a model out there

[Reinhold Schable]

Photography is a form of visual art,
just as playing the piano is a form of the audio arts,
whittling is of the sculptural arts,
and baking some brownies is of the culinary arts.
We do these things because they enrich ...our... lives.
It's personally rewarding if others enjoy our works too.
But in the end, when we lay down to sleep,
we are satisfied and content with of our art.

Reinhold

[Jim Galli]

Thanks all. Dan gets a pass. We are two old codgers who have a long standing mutual respect and his insults are always welcome and perhaps I understand them differently than some others.

I never get mad, and with Dan, it's actually hard to get even. He's too damn smart. Maybe for his own good.

[Vaughn]

I photograph the light -- always changing. I love how it can be used to describe a place and/or feeling (or person/s). The 'great' shots take time, skill and luck...I don't rush them (as if I could, :cool: ).

[tuco]

Are saying that you're tired of seeing the same combinations and permutations of pictures on the forum? You're perhaps looking for something new and exciting and people aren't delivering?

[LabRat]

If you are not breaking any new ground, you are doing more of the same, and maybe not getting too excited about it...

Try opening the door to shooting something you never dreamed of even attempting before... This will force you to get up to speed in a different zone, see in a new way, and solve/resolve new methods/approaches...

Listen to "it" whisper carefully...

This gets exciting!!!

Steve K

[xkaes]

If you are not breaking any new ground, you are doing more of the same, and maybe not getting too excited about it...

Try opening the door to shooting something you never dreamed of even attempting before... This will force you to get up to speed in a different zone, see in a new way, and solve/resolve new methods/approaches...

Listen to "it" whisper carefully...

This gets exciting!!!

Steve K

That's one of the things I loved about the old magazines, like "Darkroom Techniques". Every month, they would come out with a new approach or method -- actually, they would come out with several -- and I would try one or two. I would not always do it the way that they did it, but I always came away with too many fun ideas -- and not enough time. I still have old volumes going back decades, usually just for reference. But when I wade through them checking for a particular article, I always run across 10 or 20 with techniques I want to try -- at least once! Some sound pretty crazy!

[LabRat]

Let me go a step further...

Humans tend to like to do only what we are interested in... But our interests tend to change (usually less) depending on how we feel at any given moment... It is easy to copy (by rote) what we have done before, go where we have gone before (our safety zone), do what we do, or try to emulate what we have seen others have done before (I think the "artspeak" term (I hate) for it is "validation"), so if we can break those cycles, we operate in a new world, with new possibilities...

To simplify a new approach, maybe to try to avoid representational approaches to seeing (this is a house, this is a girl, this is a tree etc) and try to see it another way, such as a form exercise (try to view the "skeleton" of things, maybe a subject you would not touch with a 10 ft pole, things one would have trouble defining), but keep exploring it as the new series/approach will evolve... For example, maybe some old trees happen to look sad to you under some mood/lighting condition, so keep trying to explore that mood, and see where it takes you (maybe a wall, or a long journey and education)... Noticing something about something off your radar screen, can open a new dialog, that evolves into a new larger body of exploration and work...

Don't be a prisoner to your moods and interests!!! Don't be blind to a outer and inner world around you!!! Your limitation is YOU!!!

Steve K

[Ken Lee]

Over the years I've often come back to this quote concerning Archery. Taking these pursuits as a form of self-cultivation, we could easily substitute the word archer with photographer.


Archery consists in the archer aiming at himself – and yet not at himself, in hitting himself – and yet not himself, and thus becoming simultaneously the aimer and the aim, the hitter and the hit.

It is necessary for the archer to become, in spite of himself, an unmoved center. Then comes the supreme and ultimate miracle: art becomes “artless” …the end a beginning, and the beginning perfection.

[LabRat]

Over the years I've often come back to this quote concerning Archery. Taking these pursuits as a form of self-cultivation, we could easily substitute the word archer with photographer.


Archery consists in the archer aiming at himself – and yet not at himself, in hitting himself – and yet not himself, and thus becoming simultaneously the aimer and the aim, the hitter and the hit.

It is necessary for the archer to become, in spite of himself, an unmoved center. Then comes the supreme and ultimate miracle: art becomes “artless” …the end a beginning, and the beginning perfection.


Cool!!!

I have studied/practiced Kyudo (Japanese Zen Archery) for a few years, and it really helped my photography and awareness... One of the main goals was the archer would merely "facilitate" the process of drawing the bow, and other things would take over and complete the cycles, but one just stands in the middle of it all (with no ego or mental noise)...

One of my new favorite words is Reikon (Japanese) which much more simply translated, is a ghost that lives between the spiritual and material worlds...

(I'm thinking about covering up the Nikon label on my 35mm street camera with a new label reading "Reikon"...) ;-)

Steve K

[xkaes]

Your limitation is YOU!!!

Steve K

Apparently not to some people on this forum -- it's either your format or your lens(es) or your technique or your enlarger or your method or your film or your........................................

[Jac@stafford.net]

Hard to imagine that it has been 25 years now that I have pursued artistic photography.
[...]
The wisest man that ever lived may have said it best. All is vanity and striving after wind.

I recognize your thoughts. Your words are like mine, but still I cannot truly feel the distress - only tangentially recognize depression which I've battled all my life. Wishing you well.

Twenty-five years is not so long, Jim. Sometimes it helps to have new eyes look at your work. Many years ago a chap took special interest in my largely photo journalistic work. His enthusiasm and insight helped me rise up to appreciate what is hidden in most of us - our unevinced vision which motivates us - something beyond our ordinary vocabulary. (Unfortunately this was during a very low economic period for me and I blew it, let it slide. That man is now retired from a long career as a major metropolitan photography curator.)

The point is that in twenty-five years you certainly have pursued a vision and someone other than you might discern the vector, your vision, pare your huge collection into a stunning summary that might surprise you.

Regarding the Wind, an aside. I had an uncle who spent his whole life trying to harness the wind as a source of lifting. In his Sixties he patented the Jalbert Parafoil. He had no regrets for the decades of work.

Very Best to you and yours,
Jac Stafford

[Jim Galli]

Again thanks for all of the well reasoned and thoughtful responses. No worries. I'm not cashing in the chips just yet. I'm still having fun.

What's changed is that original naivete that believed I was doing important art. I'm over it. And perhaps a little cynical. Nothing I'm shooting and probably what you're shooting is really very important. I understand the "end in itself" argument.

Here's a recent image. Cliffside Winery on the Washington side up in the Maryhill country. Joanie went above and beyond giving me and my daughter a wine tour and tasting. We asked if she'd sit for a portrait and I did this with Tina's (my daughter) B&J 4X5 and a 6 3/4" Gundlach f3 Cinema petzval. Not an important picture but we were having great fun and Tina later took the portrait up to Joanie.

Not art, and doesn't need to be. That's all I was saying.

[xkaes]

This is truly inspirational. I think I will write a book -- "Zen and the Art of Large Format Photography". It won't actually deal with Zen, at all, nor will it deal with Large Format Photography, at all. But neither did the original. My only trepidation is that I might need to move to California and set up a school/commune/movement sort of thingy.

[Hugo Zhang]

Sometimes I think I should learn to empty my mind and let it become a mirror or the ground glass behind my lens. Like an old Chinese sage says:

THE MIND OF A PERFECT MAN IS LIKE A MIRROR.
IT GRASPS NOTHING.
IT EXPECTS NOTHING.
IT REFLECTS BUT DOES NOT HOLD.

[Tin Can]

LOL Good one!


Sometimes I think I should learn to empty my mind and let it become a mirror or the ground glass behind my lens. Like an old Chinese sage says:

THE MIND OF A PERFECT MAN IS LIKE A MIRROR.
IT GRASPS NOTHING.
IT EXPECTS NOTHING.
IT REFLECTS BUT DOES NOT HOLD.

[xkaes]

THE MIND OF A PERFECT MAN IS LIKE A MIRROR.

That is the best definition of narcissism I've ever heard -- hands down. Thanks!

[LabRat]

That is the best definition of narcissism I've ever heard -- hands down. Thanks!

The mirror is facing outward, not to the face...

Steve K

[Drew Wiley]

Maybe it's time for you to hitch up with Ma Barker's boys, get in your vintage automobile, and go rob the bank in Silver City, if it still exists. Time to do something different, then photography will sound exciting again, especially since not many people take large format shots thru barred jail cell windows. That should be different enough to bag you a museum show.

[Vaughn]

That is the best definition of narcissism I've ever heard -- hands down. Thanks!

It might take more then 7 minutes to understand that it is has nothing to do with narcissism. Personally, I strive to be like my 11x14: big-headed, lens in front, film in back and nothing inbetween.

[jnantz]

hi jim

i don't think you are a realist or a cynic, you sound bored ;)
john

[jnantz]

Apparently not to some people on this forum -- it's either your format or your lens(es) or your technique or your enlarger or your method or your film or your........................................

couldnt' agree more .. the gear is pretty much a distraction

[mdarnton]

Regarding the middle-end of Jim's post: I have an extensive archive of negs of my four years as a newspaper photog in an isolated part of Michigan. I've been scanning them and putting them up on Flickr, and have talked to a university archive that specializes in this kind of thing for them to eventually receive the film. I'm hoping to get quite a fistful up on Flicker before that happens. This is not the perfect solution to helping people access my work, but it helps. In my case, some archivist's job will be easy, because the negs are dated within a day or two of when the photos ran in the newspaper, so all the background info--who, what, when, where--is already done, waiting to be matched up. it's an archive job I wouldn't mind having, myself, if someone would pay me.

In the vein of the thread, what makes this work special is that no one can go back and recreate my photos. I do remember writing a photo magazine once to complain about an article they'd printed. It would have been in the 70s, I think, when either Modern Photo or Petersen's printed an article showing exactly where to stand for the "best" shots in a number of European cities. At least now no one's doing that. . . . or are they? Well, photograph people instead of scenery, and you won't need to worry about people stealing your best shots. https://www.flickr.com/photos/mdarnton/albums/72157628767257187

[Jim Galli]

Regarding the middle-end of Jim's post: I have an extensive archive of negs of my four years as a newspaper photog in an isolated part of Michigan. I've been scanning them and putting them up on Flickr, and have talked to a university archive that specializes in this kind of thing for them to eventually receive the film. I'm hoping to get quite a fistful up on Flicker before that happens. This is not the perfect solution to helping people access my work, but it helps. In my case, some archivist's job will be easy, because the negs are dated within a day or two of when the photos ran in the newspaper, so all the background info--who, what, when, where--is already done, waiting to be matched up. it's an archive job I wouldn't mind having, myself, if someone would pay me.

In the vein of the thread, what makes this work special is that no one can go back and recreate my photos. I do remember writing a photo magazine once to complain about an article they'd printed. It would have been in the 70s, I think, when either Modern Photo or Petersen's printed an article showing exactly where to stand for the "best" shots in a number of European cities. At least now no one's doing that. . . . or are they? Well, photograph people instead of scenery, and you won't need to worry about people stealing your best shots. https://www.flickr.com/photos/mdarnton/albums/72157628767257187

Mr. Jaasko's generator shop jumped right off the screen at me. Beautiful.

[mdarnton]

Thanks. I remember that neg as being nearly unprintable at the time. Now, thanks to scanning and Photoshop. . . no problem! I have quite a few shots like that--the area was heavily working, older people, who were doing interesting things, and my editor liked it when I found them, because they were the readers. That's what made the job so much fun.

[William Whitaker]

Jim,

We all need a break now and then. If you can, I would suggest a vacation. Without a camera. Leave it/them at home. But perhaps plan to take in an exhibit and allow the work of others to work on you.

[Jody_S]

Why do people play the piano? The result is even more ephemeral than photographs in this digital age. Yet I love listening to someone play. But why do they bother?

There are quite a few factors at play. Obviously most of us shoot for ourselves, for our own pleasure. I've posted before about how I consider it therapy, something that (arguably) keeps me sane and connected to the wider world. It's also a marker of class. It's proof that I have risen somewhat above my working-class poor background, that I can afford such a frivolous pastime. And yes, my collection of cameras and lenses will be worth far more than my photos when I die, if anyone is concerned about money when that time comes.

I don't normally even look at my own photographs. I edit maybe 5% of them, then they go in a folder on my computer. Lately I use a screensaver that displays random photos on the screen for 5 minutes each. Sometimes I surprise myself with images I don't remember making. It has motivated me to try again, sometimes.

[Corran]

With regard to landscapes - every day is different. Every minute is different. Weather is constantly changing; the position of the sun changes over the year. IMO no location is overdone. There's always a new view, a new way of looking. My best photos back in south GA came from returning to the same place, over and over, at different times of the day, different seasons, or just with a fresh set of eyes.

There are some photographers that "check the box" in terms of well-known locales. Same location, same overlook, basically the same photo. It takes time to get to know a place, so this doesn't work IMO. For example - I love Clyde Butcher's work in the Florida landscape. He traveled west and made photographs at many famous locations. I don't find them that compelling in comparison to his Florida work. I think it's because he didn't have the depth of time in those places like he has in the Florida Everglades.

I've seen this for myself after moving recently. I am only now starting to really get, hopefully, good images here.

There is much to see and much to shoot anywhere.

[h2oman]

In a recent thread an OP asks about where the good shots are near Portland. Change the name and we see the same querry a thousand times here. And I guess I'm getting a bit cynical.

It's absolutely OK to ask the question.

Jim,

Of course it's OK to ask the question. In fact, the malaise you go on to express has nothing to do with that inquiry.

Suppose that I'm going to Yosemite and have never been before. Then a group of photographers would be be ideal for asking where to go and what to see. I can go and experience the wonder of the cliffs and falls and then, if I don't want to re-create all of Ansel's photos, I try to do something original like Oliver Gaglioni's tent patches or Ted Orland's "One and a Half Domes."

I wish you well in your quest to find meaning in your work, but lighten up on the rest of us photographic tourists! :cool:

In the interest of full disclosure of my non-digital identity,
Gregg Waterman

[Nodda Duma]

I think many people - more now than ever - long to grasp onto something larger than themselves, or feel like they've missed out on opportunities at some time or another. We are, after all, living in relatively uneventful times in world history.

I'm convinced those people were Mongolian hordes in a past life.

[Mark Sampson]

I'll suggest a project... Jim, you've acquired a lot of knowledge, now's the time to put it to work. You love old Fords, have one or two? You live in an interesting visual environment. It's time to combine those. I'd like to see you do a series of illustrations, portraits if you will, of your old Fords. You've teased us for years with 'just wanted to see what the lens will do'. Now get serious with the subject... choosing background, lighting, time, and the proper lens for each subject. I'm sure you have friends who willed you shoot their cars, too. Set some rules; one format, one print size, one paper. People in the pictures, or not? Choose. Work within the boundaries you set for yourself. Give yourself a year, and I'll bet you have a great little portfolio of pictures that only you could have made. You won't have set up in Ansel Adams' tripod holes, or anyone else's. Use your knowledge to show us something you love! "The Subject Matters", as Bill Jay wrote.
I for one will look forward to seeing such a project completed; your pictures so far point in this direction... go for it!

[Two23]

I'm pretty sure none of my photos will ever achieve any fame, and probably not even any longevity. Add to that I only find less than 5% of any I've ever taken to actually be any good. So why do it? Well, duck season only lasts for three months and I have to find something else to do the other nine months.:) Photography is basically my creative outlet. If I didn't do that, I'd probably be learning to play the oboe. (Seriously--I played flute at University of Kansas.) Photography gets me outdoors, generally out in some pretty remote corners of the Northern Plains. Every now and then I am rewarded with a photo I kind of like.:D And it sort of comes down to that--if I didn't take photos, what else would I be doing for fun?


Kent in SD

[Corran]

If I didn't do that, I'd probably be learning to play the oboe.

Now there is something we don't need more of! :p ;)

[Alan Klein]

Jim, Your quote from the book reminds me of the ending of that book that provides your answer. Books, photos - life itself. Find God and do his will.

Ecclesiastes Chapter 12:
12 And furthermore, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
13 The end of the matter, all having been heard: fear God, and keep His commandments; for this is the whole man.
14 For God shall bring every work into the judgment concerning every hidden thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil.

In the meanwhile, don't hoard your work. Frame the prints. Give them as gifts to friends and families. Watch their enjoyment and smiles.

[Jim Galli]

Jim, Your quote from the book reminds me of the ending of that book that provides your answer. Books, photos - life itself. Find God and do his will.

Ecclesiastes Chapter 12:
12 And furthermore, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
13 The end of the matter, all having been heard: fear God, and keep His commandments; for this is the whole man.
14 For God shall bring every work into the judgment concerning every hidden thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil.

In the meanwhile, don't hoard your work. Frame the prints. Give them as gifts to friends and families. Watch their enjoyment and smiles.

Bingo. Done, in process, done, done, done, done, done, done, and done.

[Merg Ross]

Jim, you say, "it has been 25 years now that I have pursued artistic photography," and then, "the wind in the sails 25 years ago is gone."

You are, by some measurements, in your infancy as a photographer. I have, in my 65 years as a photographer, had similar doubts along the way, even periods without touching a camera. However, I have always come back, and to again quote you, "I'm still going, still enjoying, having fun." This is what matters. The wind is not really gone, take a break, and it will return.

When I see that Jim Galli has posted an image on the forum, I always take note. Your work is original and inspirational.

[cowanw]

Don't know if it makes any difference but I think you have inspired many others. "Jesus at 100", I will never forget; you have given Jesus a tiny bit of immortality and that is a kindness.

[Louis Pacilla]

When I see that Jim Galli has posted an image on the forum, I always take note. Your work is original and inspirational.


Don't know if it makes any difference but I think you have inspired many others. "Jesus at 100", I will never forget; you have given Jesus a tiny bit of immortality and that is a kindness.

For sure!

[Hugo Zhang]

Jim,

I have an idea for you that will be challenging and keep you busy for a while. Why not work on a book project based upon your pictures made with old lenses?

I have been inspired by your work and learned quite a bit from your postings over the years. I would love to buy a book by Jim Galli. My dream book will be a handmade book of 25-35 of your best pictures in contact prints. Second choice will be any book you make that comes with one 810 contact print. Some notes about lenses that were used for the pictures are nice too.

I think there are other members in this forum will be interested as well.

Hugo

[Jac@stafford.net]

Jim, I'm with Hugo's idea!

[David Karp]

Jim, as long as you like it do it!

Remember when you dropped off the Seneca? You set up the 2D and focused on a flower in front of my house. Just looking at it on the GG and seeing the soft focus image was fun! We didn't even make a photo. I still do it sometimes - No film. It's just fun to look at things a different way.

It doesn't matter if anyone else cares or appreciates your work (although we do) as long as you enjoy and care about it.

[Jimi]

Jim, kick that cynic out of the house. You got better things to do than sitting around being grumpy.

And get going with the book idea, already! :)

[faberryman]

I was going to suggest redoing you website. You have some great images languishing in a 2003 interface. You could spend some time organizing it and sprucing it up, and you would come away with a much more positive outlook seeing what you have already accomplished.

[Merg Ross]

I was going to suggest redoing you website. You have some great images languishing in a 2003 interface. You could spend some time organizing it and sprucing it up, and you would come away with a much more positive outlook seeing what you have already accomplished.

The website idea is a good one. I should follow your suggestion! And a book will also serve a similar purpose.

You are going to be a busier man, Jim!

[David Karp]

An interesting concept would be a book that talks about the qualities and characteristics of different lenses and then provides outstanding photos as examples. An art and educational book! I would love to see that book or any Galli book.

[Kerosene Hat]

Hey Jim, I love your stuff on this forum. And feel your frustration / boredom on the been-there-done-that angle. If I may...

I try to go to new and different locations (for me) and get some bad copycat images from the same iconic places. Then, sometimes, I am in an iconic location and get something new and worthwhile. This keeps my hope up. It's easy to get jaded and natural to want to take time off. When I was shooting small format, digital (and especially the chance to quickly get feedback on off camera lighting) got me excited again. Then, something was missing...I didn't "feel" it.

Took a couple years off, got divorced, got sick, got healthy, rediscovered film (MF) and boom. Got excited again. Then, realized that the medium and format (not just medium format, lol) do not a good image make. Got into LF, started to founder....kept going out, made some okay images...got frustrated....worked too fast took a workshop, worked more slowly, got encouraged... kept going.

No doubt I will get my own sea stack images (taking a Barnbaum workshop this June), and much of m stuff will not be memorable for the ages. I've come to terms with that and make the active decision to pursue my images for me. That includes the image making process, such as triable, workshops, disgruntled time away from camera, disgruntled time behind camera, some 'gruntled' time behind the camera and everything else.

We can't expect every image to be the one for the ages, or we'd never take the camera out, let alone, frame, compose, load camera, meter and trip the shutter. So, for me....the journey is the destination.

As I've let go of the ends-orientation, I enjoy the means AND the ends more.

Thought provoking post and one to make us all think.

[Bill Burk]

When I look at the work of local photographers, I am impressed with how well they showcase the local scenery.

It's liberating to know I can leave those landmarks to them.

There are some things I know better. And when I get those photos, I feel like I got what I was going for.

But after developing my backlog of about 100 sheets, I know what's missing.

It's the feeling that I got a negative that is essentially a license to print money.

Something tells me those days are long gone.

[lab black]

Quote Originally Posted by cowanw
Don't know if it makes any difference but I think you have inspired many others. "Jesus at 100", I will never forget; you have given Jesus a tiny bit of immortality and that is a kindness.

-------

+1


Jim,

Your 2D, 3B and "Jesus at 100" profoundly transformed how I discover and tell my stories.

[Randy]

Heard them all. GIVEN them all.Jim, at this point, you might consider pursuing your passion just as before, but skip the step where you load film in the film holders.

[Shen45]

Hi Jim,

One of the major highlights for my trip to the US in 05/06 was when Kevin and I drive over the Sierra Nevada range along Highway 120, made the mandatory stop at the Whoa Nellie, skirted around Mono Lake and traveled out to Tonopah. Here in Australia we have many similar small towns that fade and are forgotten.

Just a suggestion: Have an exhibition in Tonopah. Hire a space or convince the local council to get on board. Call it "Our Tonopah" in the flyers and advertising and set Tonopah as a definite project, detailing the history and current people, a documentary but with the Galli touch. I appreciate you have many images in and around Tonapah but shoot fresh material as well so this is a "new" approach and project. Cover history and the current Tonopah daily life and personalise it with people.

Set yourself a definite time frame and work towards it. I would allow 12 months or whenever your Spring occurs as it is comfortable for people to get out to see the work.

Just a thought,

Steve

[Keith Fleming]

I have been following this thread since it began, and thinking of how to add some useful ideas. It's possible that mine won't be useful!

Jim, I don't think it should bother you that you have little interest in making another image of sea stacks on the Oregon coast. Oregon may simply just not be "Galli Country" when it comes to making images. All of us know of things we tend not to photograph. On one subject, I have the opposite problem. There's a nice lighthouse on the point at the state park here in town. I've taken many walks with my late wife along that beach in the past 20 years at all hours of the day (usually carrying small format cameras), and I have yet to take a satisfying photograph of the lighthouse. I did enjoy the walks with her though. That is sufficient for me.

I've gone through your website--again. From my perspective, you excel in two areas: making super images and in using a good, clear writing style. The combination of those two talents is noteworthy. You are a story teller melding images and words into a single whole. That is your great strength. You always share with us your enjoyment of photography.

Now, I don't have recommendations for how to fire up your interest in making images. But I do thank you for what you have done for mine, and I hope you keep it up!

Keith

[swmcl]

Mr Jim Galli,

I'm not the only one who has been inspired or uplifted by what you've bought to the forum. My life is actually a teeny bit better because of you - believe it or not. Its a rather patsy thing to say I know but ... it is probably one of the main things we achieve. The bits of joy or wisdom in others' lives.

How is it for classical composers !! They work on things to never have them played or only played after they're dead !! At least with pictures they can be seen by others as soon as they are dry !

I feel very much the same as Jim too so this post is for me and Jim.

[DrTang]

Suppose that I'm going to Yosemite and have never been before. Then a group of photographers would be be ideal for asking where to go and what to see.....

AND..there it is

my next project.. I'mma going to drag my 8x10 out to Yosemite.. set up in /near the meadow... and photograph tourists in front of a painted backdrop..of Yosemite (with real Yosemite showing on the sides and top)

yup..might take me awhile to organize this..but..thanks guys!

serious BTW

[Jim Galli]

What a bunch of sweet folks! Thank you all.

As to a book, I doubt I have a book in me. But perhaps Merg would have said the same thing, and then still later he made an absolutely fantastic one. I highly recommend a copy of Merg's book to anyone needing some visual refreshment.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

What a bunch of sweet folks! Thank you all.

As to a book, I doubt I have a book in me. But perhaps Merg would have said the same thing, and then still later he made an absolutely fantastic one. I highly recommend a copy of Merg's book to anyone needing some visual refreshment.

Jim, I would say do a book as well. You have the stories and the images. Merg is an inspiration for me as are you and I agree with you on Merg's book. Great visually and wonderful stories. I have a book well underway and it will be something very different than anything that has been done so far. Well at least as far as I can tell.

[DrTang]

As to a book, I doubt I have a book in me.

make a Blurb book - they are easy to do, relatively cheap (you can make one offs) and it is cool to see your stuff in print .. I've done about 6 or 7 just to have stuff organized into a theme and in one place.
Of course they will end up at the Goodwill eventually too..but maybe someone who will appreciate them will buy them and it will inspire them to take up large format and then their negs will go to the dump as well eventually ..wait....

[Vaughn]

AND..there it is

my next project.. I'mma going to drag my 8x10 out to Yosemite.. set up in /near the meadow... and photograph tourists in front of a painted backdrop..of Yosemite (with real Yosemite showing on the sides and top)

yup..might take me awhile to organize this..but..thanks guys!

serious BTW

Tourists can be a lot of fun. This was with the 5x7 (Yosemite Valley Tour...silver gelatin contact print):

[Tin Can]

Making any book is a pain in the butt.

I have an old friend who, every time I see him tells me "Make a Book!" of my Bar stories. Drives me crazy. My stories will never be written down. Ephemera.




What a bunch of sweet folks! Thank you all.

As to a book, I doubt I have a book in me. But perhaps Merg would have said the same thing, and then still later he made an absolutely fantastic one. I highly recommend a copy of Merg's book to anyone needing some visual refreshment.

[jp]

Tourists can be a lot of fun. This was with the 5x7 (Yosemite Valley Tour...silver gelatin contact print):

It's like a Lartigue version of Caponigro's running white deer! Fun.

[jnantz]

Making any book is a pain in the butt.

I have an old friend who, every time I see him tells me "Make a Book!" of my Bar stories. Drives me crazy. My stories will never be written down. Ephemera.


some stories are best spoken.
randy you should do a moth spoken word slam instead of writing a book
jim too .. there is so much more to a photograph than the image on paper..

[faberryman]

make a Blurb book - they are easy to do, relatively cheap (you can make one offs) and it is cool to see your stuff in print .. I've done about 6 or 7 just to have stuff organized into a theme and in one place.
Of course they will end up at the Goodwill eventually too..but maybe someone who will appreciate them will buy them and it will inspire them to take up large format and then their negs will go to the dump as well eventually ..wait....
The circle of life as a photographer.

[Emil Schildt]

I have been where you're at Jim (and others)...
Wondering about the why..

Two years ago I comptemplated selling all my stuff and change life all together..

But I am now going to tell a VERY un-Danish thing (we have the law of Jante you know)..

I am now in the quite opposite position.
Getting older and older, I fear I don't have time to make what I want to make.. never have the feeling, my stuff would be thrown out eventually...

The reason is, I now have a gallerist... did not look for one - he found me, and he is crazy... Selling like a mad man..

In the past year I have sold for more than the previous 35 years put together..

That have put me on a frenzy.. Grateful, but in fear something (like time) is running out...

[Tin Can]

I have been involved in and follow storytelling. Chicago is/was a test ground for Stand Up with Second City, Improv Olympics, 'The Harold' and countless unknown venues. Many of my friends are actors, performers, whatever. I believe my 2001 Masters Thesis directly influenced the very popular StoryCorps https://storycorps.org/ They copied my technigue by 2003 right down to the AirStream trailer. T have documentation.

I tell my stories one on one, each story developed specifically for one listener. Most 'acts' are rehersed and honed endlessly. Boring. A great 2017 movie about Stand up including Lenny Bruce is https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_marvelous_mrs_maisel/s01/ I am a huge fan of Mort Sahl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mort_Sahl. Saw him in Chicago a decade or so ago. I was the youngest old man in the room.

I dream of customized imaging, specifically targeting individuals. It's coming. Full Format. VR is not it.




some stories are best spoken.
randy you should do a moth spoken word slam instead of writing a book
jim too .. there is so much more to a photograph than the image on paper..

[Merg Ross]

What a bunch of sweet folks! Thank you all.

As to a book, I doubt I have a book in me. But perhaps Merg would have said the same thing, and then still later he made an absolutely fantastic one. I highly recommend a copy of Merg's book to anyone needing some visual refreshment.

Jim, thanks for the kind words.

It is true that I shunned the idea of a book for many years. However, upon turning 70, I gave it renewed thought. I reflected on how much creative photography had changed since the early days of my involvement --- the childhood visits with Edward Weston, and all of the individuals and experiences along the way that had enriched my life.

I am the product of a bygone era, and wanted to relate some of those early experiences. So, I got to work and put them into words, accompanied by five-dozen of my photographs. The book is a tribute to many, in particular to my family, patiently at my side as I waited for the right light, the wind to calm, and the days away in my cave, as my wife refers to my darkroom.

Perhaps I should have done a book earlier; I learned a lot about myself in the process.

As for you Jim, give it some more thought. I'm serious!

Best,
Merg

[DrTang]

.

I dream of customized imaging, specifically targeting individuals. It's coming. Full Format. VR is not it.

kinda like what Wu-Tang Clan did with their single pressed album?

[Merg Ross]

Jim, I would say do a book as well. You have the stories and the images. Merg is an inspiration for me as are you and I agree with you on Merg's book. Great visually and wonderful stories. I have a book well underway and it will be something very different than anything that has been done so far. Well at least as far as I can tell.

Thanks, Jim.

I recently visited your website. It appears updated since my last visit, but perhaps just my faulty memory. I took the journey, from Landscapes to Architectural, with pleasant surprises along the way, and was treated to stunning work. You have been on my radar for many years, and your work just gets better!

Interesting that you have posted to this thread initiated by Jim Galli, and the subject of a book has arisen. Really great news that you have taken the step and have one underway; please keep us apprised of the progress. Both you and Jim have the ideal combination of a distinctive techinical approach and unique personal vision. Perhaps we will be rewarded with a book from each of you!

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Merg, thanks for that. I've thought long and hard about a book. For me I have to control the whole process. It will not be produced in large quantities. 6 copies total but they are all filled with original carbon transfer prints tipped into the book. Needless to say the book will be rather expensive. I will build the custom Walnut presentation case as well. This limited edition will be in the style of books that one finds at 21st Editions. I've completed the printing and next the binding and then the case. Once done I'll start a new thread to show it off. This is more of a personal project for me about a very personal subject. I hope Jim Galli gives us something special as well.

[John Layton]

Rob Steinberg created some truly beautiful book/folios back in the mid 1980's - 11x14 contact albumen prints bound in italian leather. Not sure how large a run, but they sold well.

[Willie]

Are you talking Large Format or Photography with cameras of all sizes?

Many I know and see using Large Format are still under the spell of Ansel Adams. Deep blacks, white whites and contrast, contrast, contrast to make an image. Generally same old places and occasionally a new one.

Adams made a few great images - but not all were gems. Much of his best work was when there was a female love interest or infatuation in the mix. Weston produced more excellent images - but he had many more love interests helping to keep him young and creative excitement going.

If you check there are still excellent images being made - you have to look harder because they are drowned in the ocean of mediocre work being touted as 'latest and greatest' by a promoter/publicist of some sort.

Jim Becia turned me on to a book by Jack Spencer, THIS LAND: An American Portrait. Some excellent work in the book and a vision that is both creative and manipulative at the same time with some images.

Sally Mann is a name doing some fine work still. Producing work that is "better" than here family portraits is a tall order I don't think anyone can do.

Yes, a lot of "same old-same old" out there and many who constantly ask "where are the best photo locations?" all the while missing excellent images close to home.

You might as well be asking "what is the best vehicle" as "where are the great shots".

These great images are there if you look. Maybe you have to move past looking in the same old places?

[Jim Galli]

Are you talking Large Format or Photography with cameras of all sizes?

You might as well be asking "what is the best vehicle" as "where are the great shots".

This is the LF forum. I've little or no interest in cutting edge or technology. I think Adams and probably Edward are surpassed these days. You're absolutely right that we LF knuckle draggers are lost in time. That's sort of what I've realized. Edward and Ansel were right man right time phenomena. No need for either now.

Oh, and we've discussed the best vehicle already on this forum. I think a '29 Ford Station Wagon is hard to beat. At least you've got something to take a picture of.

So I guess that answers my question about being a realist:cool:

[Jac@stafford.net]

So I guess that answers my question about being a realist:cool:

Realism is an invention of people who cannot tolerate creative imagination, alternate views.

[Jim Jones]

Realism is an invention of people who cannot tolerate creative imagination, alternate views.

Well done realism honors the subject. Sometimes creative imagination honors the artist.

[LabRat]

Realism is an invention of people who cannot tolerate creative imagination, alternate views.

Let's not forget that a photograph is NOT reality, but a abstract (better or worse) facsimile of light reflecting off some stuff, so we "connect the dots", but something else than "real"...

But we adapt... ;-)

Steve K

[Tin Can]

observation defines reality

[Jody_S]

This is the LF forum. I've little or no interest in cutting edge or technology. I think Adams and probably Edward are surpassed these days. You're absolutely right that we LF knuckle draggers are lost in time. That's sort of what I've realized. Edward and Ansel were right man right time phenomena. No need for either now.

My solution was to embrace LF as performance art. I don't care anymore what the photos look like. Well, obviously I try my best and I'm more and more willing to experiment and get out of my comfort zone, but it's not the image I'm working toward.

[Tin Can]

All the worlds a stage

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56966/speech-all-the-worlds-a-stage


T
My solution was to embrace LF as performance art. I don't care anymore what the photos look like. Well, obviously I try my best and I'm more and more willing to experiment and get out of my comfort zone, but it's not the image I'm working toward.

[jnantz]

Realism is an invention of people who cannot tolerate creative imagination, alternate views.

thank yo u!

[DrTang]

I think a '29 Ford Station Wagon is hard to beat.

and it would be the perfect vehicle to cart all one's LF gear around in to shoots

hahahaha

talk about a mobius strip

[Robert Opheim]

John I agree with you. It seems that I was always looking for the "great shots" like the famous landscape panoramas. It take focus in scouting the near backroads and finding locations and "seeing images. Or it takes what if and putting together or building a photographic compositing. Either in the studio, indoor our outdoor. The possible great images are around us everywhere. Ansel already shot "Moonrise over Hernandez", Weston already shot the "pepper" and the "nude on the sand" as well as many other great artists and work. It seems I am often in the visual shadow of those images that I studied in publications. photo-history, galleries, and museums. This is a wonderful site with many unique artists who have developed their personal vision. As to what dump my negatives go to when I die, what will get sold.........mid winter is the time for printing, mounting, and framing!

[LabRat]

This is the LF forum. I've little or no interest in cutting edge or technology. I think Adams and probably Edward are surpassed these days. You're absolutely right that we LF knuckle draggers are lost in time. That's sort of what I've realized. Edward and Ansel were right man right time phenomena. No need for either now.

Oh, and we've discussed the best vehicle already on this forum. I think a '29 Ford Station Wagon is hard to beat. At least you've got something to take a picture of.

So I guess that answers my question about being a realist:cool:

I have frequent arguments with my old teacher/mentor about what he thinks is the key to great shots, is like Winogrand, who shot something like 240,000 images, that if you shoot a lot, you must have a lot to edit from... He thinks all you have to do is to shoot too much, and there will be great images... I told him I disagree because, as example, now everyone has a camera device, and a digi has thousands of shots on a card, so way much space is available, but despite, where are the great shots that have exceeded Adams or Weston??? So not #'s, but vision... And let's not forget there were countless practitioners during their era, but the cream had risen to the top, much lost, but some things withstood the test of time (or will be re-discovered)...

We are operating in an era of information overload now, hype has replaced fact for the most part, most accept the role of being dedicated consumers, personal opinions options are available off-the-rack everywhere we look, and we have been herded into a new social order... But our world around us has been changing, and will change again, so we are also in a position to record the changes, so also an exciting time to function in, as we have memory, live in many worlds, and a witness to what will also be soon gone... So, an exciting time to be alive (if not horrified)...

Our histories are the memories for the next generation... (Try to figure a way to make it last...)

Steve K

[faberryman]

I have frequent arguments with my old teacher/mentor about what he thinks is the key to great shots, is like Winogrand, who shot something like 240,000 images, that if you shoot a lot, you must have a lot to edit from... He thinks all you have to do is to shoot too much, and there will be great images.
I am not of the monkey with a typewriter school of photography. I think that you are much more likely to succeed with a clear vision and deliberate work habits.

[LabRat]

I am not of the monkey with a typewriter school of photography. I think that you are much more likely to succeed with a clear vision and deliberate work habits.

Yes, I agree!!!

My return to LF is part of a personal "withdrawal program", as it was too easy to "machine gun" many different subjects with plenty of space on a chip, shoot first and ask questions later... Film has always be my domain (and a way to "make it count"), switched back to 35mm despite limited funds and resources, but still was generating a very large image count (I was coming back daily with at least 3 or 4 rolls of 36X shot singles where most all were beyond good enough to consider printing and editing from, but after a few thousand good images, I still had to cut down much more... I wanted to go back to the "one shot/one sheet" approach and see one image entirely through the process one step by step at a time (maybe a zen thing???) And to slow down to spend more time on site to absorb more of the surroundings...

Not to be irritating, but the more time I spent out, the more ideas that became available to me (either by me finding it, or it finding me) that I had to follow (like grabbing a tiger's tail and being dragged through the jungle), so I had the curse bad... Just changing my footing from getting out of metal car boxes to look around, to spending half or whole days on foot (with EZ to carry gear) in the urban jungle opened me up to much more than I ever dreamed of seeing/shooting... And discovered much that really needed to be given proper coverage...

For Jim, your images of cars/locations are a world long gone, most have forgotten, and in the future (and overseas) that vision of (what was) everyday America is important, and if published, you might even get fanmail from Oslo, or points beyond... But almost completely gone being able to see the period cars in their natural settings (not just some car show)... That's living history, and you are a living witness to it!!!

Get busy!!!

Steve K

[Vaughn]

Realism is an invention of people who cannot tolerate creative imagination, alternate views.
Acid absorbs 47% of its weight in excess reality.

[Tin Can]

I confess :)

[faberryman]

All the great shots are still waiting to be made, which is why we do what we do.

[William Whitaker]

Not that long ago I initiated my own thread out of frustration. We all have to deal with it.
But the answer is the photos are in your head, in your heart and in your back yard. Photograph that which moves you, even if cynically. It's then an exercise and one which will help flush out the demons.

I once (35 years ago) made a very satisfying (to me) image of the trash cans behind my apartment. Yuk!
But Weston photographed a toilet. So there! And I loved the way the tones of weathered galvanized steel related to Polaroid 52 (RIP...)

When you find yourself adrift in the doldrums, hit the books. Go back to the basics. Strand, Weston, Minor White. See what inspired the masters and you'll find inspiration.

[Jim Galli]

Weston photographed a toilet. So there!

Will, if I recall correctly, that very toilet was in Rhyolite, Nevada, just down the road from me. Maybe I can find his tripod holes?? Thanks for the encouragement. Like I said, I'm not quitting, but then again, I'm not showshoeing into Bodie in a 40 mph blizzard at -22 degrees to get THAT picture. I guess I no longer believe in that picture. But y'all will have to endure my antique vehicles a while longer. ;)

Wills got trashcans. I got mailboxes :cool:
http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/mailbox_1PortrEuryIIIf4-5s.jpg
mailboxes, preston castle, ca

btw, I went looking on line for this picture and someone had stolen it, cropped it, painted in the mailbox flags, and it was on pinterest with an entirely different link.

Does that mean I'm famous?

[MikeL]

The thing is, after 25 years, I have all the right gear and the know how to do that and every other iconic shot, but my question is, who cares. No one will ever see it. No one wants to see it.

Yeah, to me, the last thing the world needs are more of my photos. But I like puzzles. And trying to take an interesting photo of a tired or iconic shot is a pretty good puzzle. I’ve been working on the taking an intereting photo of the golden gate bridge. Complete failures so far, but it’s keeping me entertained...

[Merg Ross]

Will, if I recall correctly, that very toilet was in Rhyolite, Nevada, just down the road from me. Maybe I can find his tripod holes?? Thanks for the encouragement. Like I said, I'm not quitting, but then again, I'm not showshoeing into Bodie in a 40 mph blizzard at -22 degrees to get THAT picture. I guess I no longer believe in that picture. But y'all will have to endure my antique vehicles a while longer. ;)

Wills got trashcans. I got mailboxes :cool:
http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/mailbox_1PortrEuryIIIf4-5s.jpg
mailboxes, preston castle, ca

btw, I went looking on line for this picture and someone had stolen it, cropped it, painted in the mailbox flags, and it was on pinterest with an entirely different link.

Does that mean I'm famous?

Yeah, you're famous. And you are going to be more famous after the book. Mailboxes, Preston Castle, CA. Now there is a classic Galli interpretation!

[David Karp]

You got me thinking Jim. That could be dangerous. :-)

That idea of "who cares?" is kind of interesting to me. When my late father-in-law was nearing the end, I asked him some questions about his photography -- why he got into it and stayed with it for many years, other stuff. His response was "Who cares?" I did not have a clear answer in my mind at the time, other than that his daughter cared, and I did, and so did the rest of his family and the other people who cared about him. I have been thinking about "who cares" on and off since then. Your post got me thinking about it again.

Does it matter who cares so long as YOU care?

I see a parallel in martial arts. I have been doing martial arts for a while now. At least three days/week for many years. The whole idea is just to keep learning and getting better. Slight improvements over time leading to significant improvements. Age makes some things harder and experience make some things easier. You start out knowing next to nothing and you keep learning. You work at continuous improvement. Your belts change colors. Eventually you may get some stripes on your belt. Who cares? It's a personal thing. I'm not going to be Bruce Lee or anyone else famous. I'm mostly dangerous to myself. It's a process. The doing of it keeps me going. The reward is internal.

After awhile, I realized that it is the same with my photography. I have been a photographer of some sort for longer than anything else I have ever done. I never aspired to be an artist. I was just learning, having fun, and making photos. I never thought of making it a career. I just kept plugging along. I thought I was good in the darkroom. Then I learned I had a lot to learn. So I took the opportunity to learn more about it. I got better. Slow progress over time. More learning. Now, once I knock off the rust, I'm better than I ever was before. There is no doubt about it. There is also no doubt that I have a lot to learn. The improvements won't as dramatic as when I started, but there surely is room for improvement. There always is. As a result of all that practice, my vision is stronger. My technique is better. I am more likely to achieve my vision. I am learning completely new things too. Since my darkroom opportunity is limited, I am slowly learning to scan and print. Not what I prefer, but it is what I can do right now. So, I'm still learning. I think I am getting better at that too. I finally made some Epson prints that I am proud to hang on the wall. I don't get to practice any of it as much as I would like, but it is still fun to get out there and do it. It's the doing. It's nice that some people like my photographs. Some people don't get it. I love it. Who cares if anyone else cares?

I think that the doing of it is the goal. The doing is also the reward. Whatever else might come is icing on the cake.

Who cares? For me, it's me. Others who care about me care, but if it was only me, I guess that would be OK. I would do it anyway.

It turns out that for me, the icing has been pretty sweet. The doing of photography changed my life. I met my wife through photography. Both of our dads were avid photographers. Who cared about what they did? We did. We spent time with them doing it. They taught us, sure, but that time we spent together was invaluable. Bonds were forged. Our dads joined a photo club and eventually we met each other. Both of us treasure the time we have (or had) sharing photography with our dads and with each other. It seems that your daughter is a photographer. Who cares? I imagine that both of you care. Does anyone really need more than that? One of my sons is developing an interest in photography, which makes me happy. More icing on the cake.

[Tin Can]

+1.

[John Kasaian]

I'm late to the conversation, but who cares?
Mr. Galli's work has been an inspiration to me, so I care.
Lots of good points have been discussed here as this issue is a pretty common one among old hands.

Beauty seems to me to be what's at stake.
Look at a landscape (or old car, or barn or?)
If it is someplace or something beautiful enough you want to be "there" and this includes using all your senses---the smell of forest duff or snow or motor oil; the tactile sensation of granite or say, rusty (or waxed & polished) metal or maybe peeling, whitewashed siding; the sound of rushing snow melt or wind on the trees or the surf singing her ancient song or a four banger's valves clacking merrily, then there is potential.
You love that place or that building or that piece of rust bucket that you can only possess visually.
At that point, I have to ask myself if I can put that on a sheet of film and print it on paper so to carry that image away with me, like a thief----like Robin Hood!
Because if I love that thing, the chances are others will love it too and the image can be shared with them.
From time to time I visit shut-ins. Sharing you photographs with them is a kindness, and probably the most pointed criticism I've yet to experience is when a patient leaves word to the nurses station to take me off the visitor's list.:rolleyes:

[ridax]

...another worn out shot of the sea stacks. LF black and white fine art version. Crystal sharp with 90 second exposure so the sea looks like a blurred gray fog and the fabulous rocks break through gloriously. <...> I have all the right gear and the know how to do that and every other iconic shot, but my question is, who cares... No one wants to see it.

No they don't. Guess why? For exactly the same reason you do not want to make it: simply because that number_XXXXX copy of the 'iconic shot' is NOT ART.

Art is a form of study/exploration. If you learn nothing making that picture you aren't practicing art. You are able to produce a 'perfect' picture nevertheless.... but it wouldn't it be just perfect boredom?


It's unnecessary to attempt to correct me and give me all the arguments I've already given others about "you do it for you" etc. nothing else matters, every artist brings his unique vision, blah blah blah. Heard them all. GIVEN them all.

Unnecessary? But isn't that TRUE? If it awards nothing to you, it's just not art at all. And the viewers do feel that, too, and just pass by, bored no less then the author was when he produced the thing....

And a person who does not want to make those boring 'perfect copies' is right.



... We asked if she'd sit for a portrait and I did this with Tina's (my daughter) B&J 4X5 and a 6 3/4" Gundlach f3 Cinema petzval. Not an important picture but we were having great fun.... Not art, and doesn't need to be.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173858&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1516313197http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173858&d=1516313197

Sorry but I am totally sure you are very wrong in your evaluation of this picture. This IS ART.

Though it really need not to be. Art does not ever need to be... That's how it comes into being, actually.


.... All the above are my very personal opinions. And I hope anyone who disagrees would please forgive me for the somewhat pushy style of it....

[Tin Can]

Well said!

[BruceO]

Jimbo, if you don't enjoy what you're doing, find something else to do. There are many other ways to pass the time. If you enjoy it, keep on doing it and stop whining.

[Peter Lewin]

I'm also late to this thread, but I think there is a problem in Jim's original question, which had to do with "great shots." Let me start with a quick personal "bio," which I will then tie to photography. I began racing bicycles when I was 16 or 17, and had just enough initial success to dream about making the Olympic Team. However, I learned fairly quickly that I simply wasn't good enough; in any given race I would finish ahead of 90% of the field, but I simply couldn't beat the top 10%. But I continued racing bicycles because I enjoyed the sport, and competed in Master's age-group events into my 60s. Now, looking back from age 72, even knowing I didn't have the talent to be "great," I still have wonderful memories of racing, even internationally (but still never ending on the podium), great friends, and I would do it all over again.

So let's switch to photography, something I also have been doing since I was 16 or 17. In fact when I was in my early 20s I bought my first view camera, thinking at the time that while I could have purchased an Ansel Adams print for the same money (back in the early 60s, $300 would have done it!), with the camera I could make the same prints. And just as in cycling, I soon learned that while I might be competent, I was never going to be great. There is a reason there has been one Ansel, I want to say one Weston (but he had talented sons), one William Clift (a personal favorite), and so on. The point is that it is very, very hard to be great, or to make a really great photograph. It's a nice goal, but one rarely met, and that's why I find fault with the original premise. All any of us can do is do the best we can.

As to the issue of re-making the iconic image, I was given what I think of as excellent advice: when we are at a location, and we see the obvious (or iconic) image, take it. Once that is out of the way, now explore and find the less obvious images, the ones that say something to you personally. Most of us are attracted to the classic images, so feed that urge first, and then go to work for yourself.

[scheinfluger_77]

...
As to the issue of re-making the iconic image, I was given what I think of as excellent advice: when we are at a location, and we see the obvious (or iconic) image, take it. Once that is out of the way, now explore and find the less obvious images, the ones that say something to you personally. Most of us are attracted to the classic images, so feed that urge first, and then go to work for yourself.

This seems like pretty good advice. I think it would be a pretty good “block” breaker.

[Jim Galli]

This thread may have been better off left dead. My original point was that it's 2019, no one cares about these pictures. That's perfectly OK. I'm still enjoying my cameras and especially my lenses. But anything that's getting any traction in 2019 is usually vomit. People are over pretty pictures. The only value is in the creative moment, whatever pleasure is derived, that's really all there is. And that's enough for me and probably for most of us. This is what we do, and that's as far as it gets. Nobody wants this stuff. I think I'm a realist. Portraits can have a bit more value of course. A good record of another human has some instrinsic value.

[pepeguitarra]

I saw the title of the thread and thought to myself: " Finally I get to see some great shots by the LFF members." Then I went through 12 pages with no avail. I may have to go back to Flickr.

[Corran]

People are over pretty pictures.

I think if you dig a little deeper, this is not true. There's a lot of successful (photographer) artists, working in large format no less, selling prints. The market is different, no doubt, and reaching your potential market is much different than it was (Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, etc.). Not everyone is successful of course - by which I mean, earning an income that allows one to only pursue photography - but surely that's understood and no different than it ever was.

I will say that earning a living as a portrait/wedding/event photographer is probably a little easier - as long as you have the marketing and people skills. But I don't think that's the point of your post. Most of the very successful folks in that genre, at least in my area, all take the same generic back-lit images in cotton fields and wooded areas with the same 2-3 Lightroom presets to make them have warm tones, and everyone's Christmas Card Photo looks the same. But it pays the bills I suppose.

More to your point original point - there are no "good shots" IMO, just what we see and what we then share. We all see differently. My dad, if he's with me on a hike, always asks me "what are you taking a photo of?" when I'm setting up to shoot some scene. He is always saying "I just don't get it" to me. He has never really understood "art" I think. It's too abstract.

[Corran]

I saw the title of the thread and thought to myself: " Finally I get to see some great shots by the LFF members." Then I went through 12 pages with no avail. I may have to go back to Flickr.

Actually, why is this in the Image Sharing subforum and not On Photography?

[andrewch59]

Build yourself a virtual Art Gallery and display all of those amazing photos! Have a walk-through so people can see them hung up on your virtual walls, with pricetags of course! Perhaps a few display shelves to show off your amazing collection of lenses and cameras. "Jim Galli's Photographic Emporium"
If you wrote a book, I would be one of the first in line to buy it! Would love to know about where you live and what one gets up to growing up in Tonopah! How you became so enamoured with photography, where you got your special skill set from as far as manipulating old broken down lenses, your stories on your site always entertain.

[Alan Klein]

I'm also late to this thread, but I think there is a problem in Jim's original question, which had to do with "great shots." Let me start with a quick personal "bio," which I will then tie to photography. I began racing bicycles when I was 16 or 17, and had just enough initial success to dream about making the Olympic Team. However, I learned fairly quickly that I simply wasn't good enough; in any given race I would finish ahead of 90% of the field, but I simply couldn't beat the top 10%. But I continued racing bicycles because I enjoyed the sport, and competed in Master's age-group events into my 60s. Now, looking back from age 72, even knowing I didn't have the talent to be "great," I still have wonderful memories of racing, even internationally (but still never ending on the podium), great friends, and I would do it all over again.

So let's switch to photography, something I also have been doing since I was 16 or 17. In fact when I was in my early 20s I bought my first view camera, thinking at the time that while I could have purchased an Ansel Adams print for the same money (back in the early 60s, $300 would have done it!), with the camera I could make the same prints. And just as in cycling, I soon learned that while I might be competent, I was never going to be great. There is a reason there has been one Ansel, I want to say one Weston (but he had talented sons), one William Clift (a personal favorite), and so on. The point is that it is very, very hard to be great, or to make a really great photograph. It's a nice goal, but one rarely met, and that's why I find fault with the original premise. All any of us can do is do the best we can.

As to the issue of re-making the iconic image, I was given what I think of as excellent advice: when we are at a location, and we see the obvious (or iconic) image, take it. Once that is out of the way, now explore and find the less obvious images, the ones that say something to you personally. Most of us are attracted to the classic images, so feed that urge first, and then go to work for yourself.

Very good advice Peter. Your experiences in life naturally lead me to the oft quoted expression it's not the destination that counts, but the journey.

[Alan Klein]

PS: and have fun along the way.

[Jim Jones]

There are probably many more great photographs made public each year now than in any time over the past 170 years. It has merely become increasingly difficult to sort them out from the chaff. A site like this, which often presents photographs that inspire and educate, attracts wannabes who do neither. An editor like Alfred Stieglitz could reject those, but in doing so, would deny us the joy and elucidation of fine photography that does not meet the editor's preferences. Let us rejoice in having this site just the way it is.

[Peter Collins]

Where are the great shots? You could say Point Lobos for one, because Edward Weston found great shots there. But he didn't need Point Lobos to be a great artist who used the medium of photography. The proof is in his images of peppers, toilets, nudes, and more.

Art, and great shots, are more complicated than geography and scenery. I love to do photography, but I don't think of myself as an artist. Or, if my wife insists that I am, then a very minor and modest talent. But for myself, I know this: I don't want to do what's been done, likely much better, by others. They may inspire me, but I will not duplicate.

So for me there's nothing compelling--in terms of images to be made--about going to Yosemite, for example. I go to enjoy Yosemite, and maybe I will see something to photograph, or maybe not. And also for myself, I know this: I can find locations on Rio Grande Boulevard in Albuquerque, my home town, that may be the beginnings of a great print. That's just 3 miles from my home.

[dvoort]

Brilliant idea!! Serious, would love to see that.

[Jim Noel]

After 80+ years under a dark cloth gazing at an upside down image, i still get a kick out of seeing what appears to me to be a nice, pleasing image. Do others think the same of my images? probably not, but I don't care -I still enjoy the chase.

[Tin Can]

Good for you and I decidedly agree

and I just rolled up a few cassettes of bulk Delta 100 because there are no rules

[MultiFormat Shooter]

...I still get a kick out of seeing what appears to me to be a nice, pleasing image. Do others think the same of my images? probably not, but I don't care -I still enjoy the chase.

+1 Photograph for yourself, first and foremost. If others like/love your work, so much the better.

[Andrew Plume]

certainly agree with that statement

regards

Andrew

[Audii-Dudii]

After 80+ years under a dark cloth gazing at an upside down image, i still get a kick out of seeing what appears to me to be a nice, pleasing image. Do others think the same of my images? probably not, but I don't care -I still enjoy the chase.

Several years ago, I finally acknowledged reality -- i.e., that the world was not desperate to pay me for my photography ... lol -- and stopped trying to monetize it via print sales, etc.

Since then, "the thrill of the chase" is the only thing that motivates me to go out into the world with my camera and entertain / amuse myself by taking photos.

If others happen to enjoy my photography as well, that's great; and if not, well, that's okay, too.

The only person I aim to please these days is myself and that's plenty tough enough! :)

[Ray Van Nes]

Agreed. For the handful of lucky ones who find an audience there are a multitude who will remain unknown although their work may be exemplary. However, I still need to go out there and make images - great ones of course. To the initial question, there are great shots everywhere. Our medium is about light and form. Remember that Brett Weston photographed his dirty skillet and according to John Sexton, garbage bags , as they caught the light. Everything was fair game to him.

[dodphotography]

Because the reality is that the word has moved on without us. Trust me, I’m 34 with an MFA in Photography. My classmates who played around with photo paper and photoshop are the ones landing grants ... they’re “challenging the conventions of photography”

Most people here are modernists... those days are LONG over.

I try to have a foot in each camp... modernist in the sense that I love 8x10 and silver, but post modernist in the sense that pictures of sharp trees and nature (ala Edward Weston) will just make you a great photographic practitioner but not an artist... at least in the 2019 way of the world.

The other reality is that I’m going to assume that less than .01% of the membership of this forum goes at this as their primary means of making a living, at least from making art pictures. Maybe you’re a commercial guy, but that’s not the same thing. People here are lawyers, engineers, office workers, etc but few are true artists. The days of that life are nearly economically impossible. I teach to make a living, like many of us MFA kiddos.


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[Peter De Smidt]

You're only a "true artist" if you make your living selling your art? I would call that being a professional artist. Isn't post-modernism itself getting a bit long in the tooth?

This is a bit like my own area, philosophy. What excites academics is not all there is to philosophy.

[Corran]

in the sense that pictures of sharp trees and nature (ala Edward Weston) will just make you a great photographic practitioner but not an artist...

Oh really?


at least in the 2019 way of the world.

Michael Kenna, Clyde Butcher, and many others out there today doing just that. And, I'm not sure how you can say one person is an artist and another isn't just because of the time period they are alive in.


People here are lawyers, engineers, office workers, etc but few are true artists. The days of that life are nearly economically impossible.

Only those who earn money only from their art are "true" artists? And you would not qualify yourself as a "true" artist because you teach for the majority of your paycheck?

[dodphotography]

You're only a "true artist" if you make your living selling your art? I would call that being a professional artist. Isn't post-modernism itself getting a bit long in the tooth?

This is a bit like my own area, philosophy. What excites academics is not all there is to philosophy.

No, it’s not... again... pay attention to contemporary photography. None of us are winning Guggenheim Fellowships or MacArthur Grants


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[dodphotography]

Oh really?



Michael Kenna, Clyde Butcher, and many others out there today doing just that. And, I'm not sure how you can say one person is an artist and another isn't just because of the time period they are alive in.



Only those who earn money only from their art are "true" artists? And you would not qualify yourself as a "true" artist because you teach for the majority of your paycheck?

I knew you’d swing in and get defensive.

You just named two artists well into their years, they became established in an era that valued modern ideals (ie cameras and sharp prints etc). Also, Butcher isn’t highly regarded in art circles. Kenna is.

This is about 2019 and beyond. Artists are supported by fellowships, grants, residencies etc. I’m not the first person to say this is so it isn’t new. Art has been a pay to play model for a long time, those with financial means can ride the “hard wave” before they start to break into the game. I have friends who have legit studios in major American cities despite never having a “real” job (cough cough) mom and dad pay their rent.

I’m not a real artist... I give it my best go, but no. I accept that I straddle the line and as a result I’ve come to grips with the lack of support.

The reality is that the world cares more about the meaning (social / economic / power) of the work than they do technical nature. Which is why people will keep on selling 40 dollar prints at art fairs while young artists will continue to push their mediums and enjoy their time at McDowell / Skowhegan / and their multi thousand dollar grants while showing work in major non profit spaces.

I’m not judging people’s pictures... if you live trees and rocks, that’s cool. Make what you want to make. But when people ask “why Is _____” happening in photography you have to be able to face the music.


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[Corran]

Not defensive, merely disagreeing with you.

You're right though, those two I mentioned are older and yes Clyde was the butt of jokes for years. But that's not the point - he's earning a (good) living, so apparently he's more of an artist than any and all photography professors by your metric. But I don't agree with that kind of outlook. And there's a lot of younger folks selling work, generally focusing on social media and direct online interaction to build an audience (like many different kinds of young entrepreneurs using YouTube and Instagram for this).

I agree with you though about the academic world, where the only thing that matters it seems is hyper-politicized art, and that affluent people have a serious, almost insurmountable leg up on us regular folks. But you've categorized an artist only as someone making a living at it - that has nothing to do with the type of art, or where it's being shown. In fact most young art students I've met seem to think getting any money from their art in any way is "selling out."

I don't know man, I'm just not agreeing with some of your pigeonholing of photography / artists / art. I get where you are coming from in a sense, just not your conclusions.

Part of the reason I see things differently is because my Master's is in music performance, as a classically-trained flutist. In that arena very few make it as solo musicians, and most aren't even trying to do that. Performing with a big regional symphony (or multiple small ones) is a common way to make a living, along with holiday gigs and such. I lived that life for a long time, along with working as a recording engineer. There aren't debates about who is a "true" musician. No one feels like they are not a real musician because they also run a small private teaching studio (nearly everyone does). It's just a very strange way of thinking to me. And of course we can make a parallel between traditional F64 photography and orchestra performances of Beethoven and Mozart - which is a tough sell to most of the population. Anyway, just a thought, from that perspective.

[Peter Lewin]

The thread seems to be morphing again, away from "great shots" and towards "who is a real artist?" So are we discussing "real artists" or "great artists?" The field of "true musicians" is a lot larger than the field of "great musicians," and would lead easily to the question, "where is the great music today?" As an "average Joe" as far as classical music goes, I can name only two possibly great flutists (this is for Corran), Sir James Galway, and stretching because at least I know her name, Eugenia Zuckerman; which does not mean that Corran isn't a "true musician," just not a great one. As far as great music goes, I can't think of anyone currently composing great orchestral or chamber work (John Williams? Leonard Bernstein? One old and one passed away.) The comparison between Bach, Brahms, and Beethoven and Weston, Adams, etc. is inescapable. Many in my generation might argue that while classical is "dead," the great music is Bob Dylan, or The Airplane, or the Eagles. I'm not sure what my children would pick, but for sure not the "3 Bs".

I'm probably babbling a little, but I tend to agree with Dodphotography, and want to come back from analogy to photography. My first suggestion, for those who can, would be to attend any of the AIPAD shows (Association of International Photographic Art Dealers) and see what the galleries are selling. With only a few outliers, they are selling either "historical" museum-grade work (lots of Weston and Adams!), or contemporary, which is most often super-large, color "staged" photography. Contemporary "f64" photographs I, and many of us, like to make with our view cameras, are non-existent. Then see if there are any good "amateur" photo exhibitions around. My group in NJ is currently hanging its 25th Anniversary Show in two halves in two locations, Watchung and Trenton. I have images in both halves, but specifically because the curator wanted to show the history and trends in the group's work, and my "f64" school silver gelatin prints represent a form that has essentially become obsolete in this day of digital, PhotoShop, and large-scale digital printers. And when I say "amateur show," that is in a way deceptive, because a surprising number of those exhibiting work in the Anniversary shows have published books, admittedly photo instruction rather than fine-art monographs. Our form of photography, as Dodphotography implies, has had its day and been bypassed. We, and I include the Clyde Butchers, are producing "true shots," but not "great shots."

[jp]

I just want my photography work to be tax deductible business expense... I don't care that I make a living in another field (selling computers). So far, I'm making background images for the desktops of computers we sell. It helps them look good and adds a local flavor/style to an otherwise bland piece of globalized machinery. But my interests in work and photography are varied and I don't feel like I have to make a living doing photography and am glad I don't actually. My favorite styles of photography (LF soft focus and MF/SF nature) don't really have much audience.

[dodphotography]

The thread seems to be morphing again, away from "great shots" and towards "who is a real artist?" So are we discussing "real artists" or "great artists?" The field of "true musicians" is a lot larger than the field of "great musicians," and would lead easily to the question, "where is the great music today?" As an "average Joe" as far as classical music goes, I can name only two possibly great flutists (this is for Corran), Sir James Galway, and stretching because at least I know her name, Eugenia Zuckerman; which does not mean that Corran isn't a "true musician," just not a great one. As far as great music goes, I can't think of anyone currently composing great orchestral or chamber work (John Williams? Leonard Bernstein? One old and one passed away.) The comparison between Bach, Brahms, and Beethoven and Weston, Adams, etc. is inescapable. Many in my generation might argue that while classical is "dead," the great music is Bob Dylan, or The Airplane, or the Eagles. I'm not sure what my children would pick, but for sure not the "3 Bs".

I'm probably babbling a little, but I tend to agree with Dodphotography, and want to come back from analogy to photography. My first suggestion, for those who can, would be to attend any of the AIPAD shows (Association of International Photographic Art Dealers) and see what the galleries are selling. With only a few outliers, they are selling either "historical" museum-grade work (lots of Weston and Adams!), or contemporary, which is most often super-large, color "staged" photography. Contemporary "f64" photographs I, and many of us, like to make with our view cameras, are non-existent. Then see if there are any good "amateur" photo exhibitions around. My group in NJ is currently hanging its 25th Anniversary Show in two halves in two locations, Watchung and Trenton. I have images in both halves, but specifically because the curator wanted to show the history and trends in the group's work, and my "f64" school silver gelatin prints represent a form that has essentially become obsolete in this day of digital, PhotoShop, and large-scale digital printers. And when I say "amateur show," that is in a way deceptive, because a surprising number of those exhibiting work in the Anniversary shows have published books, admittedly photo instruction rather than fine-art monographs. Our form of photography, as Dodphotography implies, has had its day and been bypassed. We, and I include the Clyde Butchers, are producing "true shots," but not "great shots."

My dream is to be Alec Soth... magnum, dude using an 810 but it isn’t about the 810, teaches some workshops here and there and maybe drops into some college programs as a visiting lecture... makes a living from his monographs and prints.


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[Tin Can]

Graduating age 51, Spring 2001, I spent real money to earn MFA from one of the most esoteric art programs in USA. By esoteric I mean it had no grading system and allowed any self determined course of study using some classes and many advisors. My thesis project was Student Loans

School was a lot of discussion, I learned the most from my cohort who were all very serious and extremely intelligent.

Art as object has always been monetized, objects can be anything including concepts to space ships. However few start with a goal of $$$. History or oblivion judges, Mr dodphotography.

Some artists are internally driven to create as I discovered in myself after decades of work. Others are Professional...like lawyers...

At my lowest point during divorce, loss of work, desire, hope, almost becoming homeless, something shifted in me. Inspiration. I decided to express my inner rage. It's below. I am the man by the curtain. I lived in that storefront. The car was $100, painted in 20 minutes by roller. The object 2X4, scrap window screen and old paint

I sold a few pieces of art or NOT ART, regret selling anything.

Here is the birthing of my first 'art' in 1985 and a LF print from a year ago. Neither has any $$$ value, but they mean a lot to me.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49018444661_c8a456eed8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hFAkPB)1-How to Make Dragons (https://flic.kr/p/2hFAkPB) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/7802/47492097241_cb85236cf2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2fmHpUM)2 min 360 2019-03-24-0001 (https://flic.kr/p/2fmHpUM) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[dodphotography]

Graduating age 51, Spring 2001, I spent real money to earn MFA from one of the most esoteric art programs in USA. By esoteric I mean it had no grading system and allowed any self determined course of study using some classes and many advisors. My thesis project was Student Loans

School was a lot of discussion, I learned the most from my cohort who were all very serious and extremely intelligent.

Art as object has always been monetized, objects can be anything including concepts to space ships. However few start with a goal of $$$. History or oblivion judges, Mr dodphotography.

Some artists are internally driven to create as I discovered in myself after decades of work. Others are Professional...like lawyers...

At my lowest point during divorce, loss of work, desire, hope, almost becoming homeless, something shifted in me. Inspiration. I decided to express my inner rage. It's below. I am the man by the curtain. I lived in that storefront. The car was $100, painted in 20 minutes by roller. The object 2X4, scrap window screen and old paint

I sold a few pieces of art or NOT ART, regret selling anything.

Here is the birthing of my first 'art' in 1985 and a LF print from a year ago. Neither has any $$$ value, but they mean a lot to me.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49018444661_c8a456eed8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hFAkPB)1-How to Make Dragons (https://flic.kr/p/2hFAkPB) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/7802/47492097241_cb85236cf2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2fmHpUM)2 min 360 2019-03-24-0001 (https://flic.kr/p/2fmHpUM) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

Never said the intention is money or economically driven... that’s a result or the fruits of labor.

My point in all of this is that the ship has sailed.

If Nick Nixon was 22 in 2019 making pictures of Boston in his New Topographics stage he’d be posting on Flickr / Instagram with #largeformat and not represented by Frankeal


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[Peter De Smidt]

No, it’s not... again... pay attention to contemporary photography. None of us are winning Guggenheim Fellowships or MacArthur Grants


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I'm sure you're right about Gugenheim Fellowships or MacArthur Grants, and contemporary academic photography, but Enlightenment-style thinkers are hitting back in other areas, such as Steven Pinker in Enlightenment Now. The fundamental jumping off point of Post Modernism, the claim that there is no truth, is incoherent. If there is no truth, then there's at least one truth, namely that there isn't any truth....

[Audii-Dudii]

If Nick Nixon was 22 in 2019 making pictures of Boston in his New Topographics stage he’d be posting on Flickr / Instagram with #largeformat and not represented by Frankeal

I suspect you're correct about this.

Except that even the Flockr -- er, Flickr -- and Instagram crowds aren't much interested in New Topographics style photography these days.

I know this firsthand, because that's basically what I've been photographing since the late 90s. <shrugs>

[dodphotography]

I'm sure you're right about Gugenheim Fellowships or MacArthur Grants, and contemporary academic photography, but Enlightenment-style thinkers are hitting back in other areas, such as Steven Pinker in Enlightenment Now. The fundamental jumping off point of Post Modernism, the claim that there is no truth, is incoherent. If there is no truth, then there's at least one truth, namely that there isn't any truth....

Trust me... I’m not saying it’s for the better. I find a lot of the work boring but it’s the flavor of the month (and by month I mean the last 35 years).


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[dodphotography]

I suspect you're correct about this.

Except that even the Flockr -- er, Flickr -- and Instagram crowds aren't much interested in New Topographics style photography these days.

I know this firsthand, because that's basically what I've been photographing since the late 90s. <shrugs>

I’m with you... you have to keep on the grind.


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[John Kasaian]

Sorry I'm late to the party, but---what exactly are these great shots?:confused:

[Peter De Smidt]

Trust me... I’m not saying it’s for the better. I find a lot of the work boring but it’s the flavor of the month (and by month I mean the last 35 years).


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Ok. Gotchya.