Tripod with extrememly low minimum-height? [Archive]

Daniel_5275

1-Aug-2005, 07:12

I have searched and searched and searched for the answer to my tripod question but the internet isn't the most helpful place when it comes to specialist LF equipment, it seems!

The style of my photogrpahy often relies on a very low viewpoint but is just not possible with my current centre-braced Manfrotto tripod coupled with the extra height of the head and monorail camera.

I am looking for a tripod which might have independant legs which can splay out, taking the minimum height as low as possible. I know such things exist but what about one which can take the weight of a Sinar F2, with lens etc and still be incredibly stable? The weight of the tripod is NOT a major concern, minimum height and stability IS.

Can anyone PLEASE help me??? Thank you.

Ralph Barker

1-Aug-2005, 07:22

Getting low with a monorail is tough with the usual tripod configuration. You might consider mounting your tripod head on the bottom of your center column, Dan, so it's hanging upside down. Alternatively, consider mounting the tripod head (or even the camera) directly onto a piece of 3/4" plywood.

michael meyer

1-Aug-2005, 07:22

how about a tripod with a reverible center column? i have a manfrotto that has splayable legs as well as a reversible center column. if i can't get low enough with the splayed legs because of the height with the monorail blocks and tripod mount, I just reverse the center column (so the tripod head is on the downward side of the center column) and i can put the camera virtually on the ground. my tripod is the manfrotto 1221, i think. it's not what you're looking for because it isn't always super stable unless i'm very careful--though a steadier head than i use could help. anyway, i think what you want is something with a reversible center column.

-m

Louie Powell

1-Aug-2005, 07:30

Dan -

Many years ago, I did a one-day workshop with a couple from Rochester, NY who specialize in nature photography. One of the subjects of discussion was low-angle tripods. Unfortunately, I have long-since lost my notes from that day, but I do have some recollections of the discussion.

1. Bogen (now Manfrotto) was identified as a brand that has some models that can be set up to work close to ground level. I think this is model specific. However, the instructors at the workshop muttered something about often finding "bogie parts" while photographing the field - they didn't have a lot of respect for that brand.

2. They instructors favored Gitzo.

3. Slik U212 has an interesting design that features independent adjustment of both leg length and angle. In addition, there is a camera attachment screw on one of the legs - the idea is that you transfer the head from its normal position at the "top" of the tripod to the screw on the leg - this can be as low as 6" above grade. The U212 is not the most rigid tripod around, but it's not bad.

4. Benbow also has and interesting design, and one of the guys in the workshop was using a Bimbo that day. It can be set up so that the bottom of the tripod head is almost at ground level, and it is pretty rigid.

5. I use a Tiltall with my Zone VI 4x5 and find it sufficiently rigid. The native design of the Tiltall does not allow it get any lower than about 2' from ground. However, I recall that the instructor in the workshop mentioned that it is possible to grind off the metal tabs that limit the angle of tiltall legs, thereby allowing them to open all the way to a 90 deg angle.

6. Finally, there are a number of "tabletop" tripods that you can use to get to a very low angle. The Berlebach 50031 is an example.

Bob Salomon

1-Aug-2005, 07:36

The Giotto's Universal aluminum or Universal Carbon Fiber have a column that can be tilted to any angle as well as legs that spread to any angle and rotate to any angle as well as a reversable center column. That means that by reversing the column you can make the top of your caamera touch the ground or, by spreading the legs and inclining the column the base of your tripod head can almost touch the ground. By removing the column and spreading the legs the base of the camera would be about 4" from the ground.

With Linhof tripods the column reverses and the legs can spread so you can again have the top of the camera touching the ground. Also modern Linhof tripods have a head attachment point on the bottom of one leg which lets you mount the head of the tripod within 3" of the ground.

The newest Giotto's professional Aluminum tripod have reverible columns and adjustable leg angles so again you can have the top of the camera touch the ground.

Many Berlebach tripods have spread legs and reversible columns as well as a short accessory column so the top of the camera can touch the ground.

Make sure you use a counter balancing weight with a view camera doing any of these spread leg maneuvers with a monorail for maximum stability and minimal vibration.

David A. Goldfarb

1-Aug-2005, 07:44

In addition to the options mentioned, there's the Majestic tripod with the sidearm.

Mounting the camera upside down from the center column is usually the easiest and most readily available option, but sometimes the legs get in the way and make it awkward.

Ole Tjugen

1-Aug-2005, 08:06

Stabil - www.stabil.nu - goes absolutely flat if that is needed. Even the little Macro can carry most LF cameras, I used mine with a Technika III 5x7" (8 kg with lens, 16 lb).

Donald Brewster

1-Aug-2005, 08:07

Benbo Tripods are designed specifically for this application. People either love them or hate them.

Annie M.

1-Aug-2005, 08:26

For shooting at ground level with a Sinar F I use a Manfrotto #55 legs with the #029 head. I
use only the top half of the center column reversed... (less protruding parts to get hung up on) when the rubber cap is removed from the bottom of the column it reveals 2 holes through which I slide a metal dowel, this serves two purposes... it functions as a convenient handle for small height adjustments and acts as a stop bar preventing the column from accidentally slipping and allowing the camera to hit the ground. I use a Norma rail mount on my F... the standard mount may be too long for this configuration..... in that case all you have to do is drill 2 new holes in the column and you will be good to go. I have found the Manfrotto to be stable and efficient to use... in the configuration I describe you can shoot from absolute zero to 18 inches measuring from the top of the standard.

Cheers, Annie

Kevin Crisp

1-Aug-2005, 08:47

What David said. The majestic tripod has a side arm which attaches to the bottom of the column, you then move the head over to the top of the sidearm and you can be at ground level. This is illustrated in one of the editions of Adams' The Camera. The old green majestics can be had in working condition for $150 to $175. In addition to having this feature, you would have a heavy but very sturdy tripod that can also go much taller than most.

Dave Moeller

1-Aug-2005, 09:58

The Berlebach x032 tripds (2032, 3032, 4032) don't have a center column and the legs can been completely unlocked. There's a built-in ball head that allows about 30 degrees of movement in any direction (and a bubble level...a nice combination). I can get the tripod down to a few inches off of the ground with no problems. The tripod holds my Calumet C1 with a heavy lens very securely...unless you're going to move to an enormous ULF rig I'm sure it'll be strong enough for the purpose you have in mind.

Brian C. Miller

1-Aug-2005, 10:18

I have a Benbo tripod (http://www.patersonphotographic.com/tripods/benbo.html), and there is also the Uni-Loc tripod (http://www.pro4.com/uniloc_main.html) as well.

The Benbo is extremely versatile, and I really like mine. While it is versatile, it is not as rigid as my Bogen 3036. There is some flex to these tripods, so a camera like my Pentax 6x7 can shake the tripod during operation. I use mine with a Manfrotto 3055 ball head.

Bosaiya

1-Aug-2005, 11:16

What you're asking for in the cinema-world is a "high hat". If you look or ask around for a high hat you'll have a lot better luck.

My head uses a 100mm ball and I just bought some PVC at the hardware store and made one for about $5. It's about ten inches high.

Bob Salomon

1-Aug-2005, 11:56

Dave:

"There's a built-in ball head that allows about 30 degrees"

No there is a built-in leveling ball on several Berlebach tripods but none has a built-in ball head and the leveling ball will allow you to level the tripod head on most any terrain but it is far from being a ball head. For one thing it can not let the camera tilt from horizontal to vertical which any ball head can do.

Alan Davenport

1-Aug-2005, 11:57

The Bogen 3021Pro might suffice. Using the short center column, it already gets fairly low. The center column can also be mounted horizontally, then by using the legs independently, it is possible to get the head (which is out on the end of the horizontal tube) all the way down to, or even below ground level. You'll need to have sandbags or similar to weigh down the legs opposite the camera. I haven't actually done this with a large format camera, but I have with 35mm and it works a trick. Best bet is to use a ballhead because the movements on a 3-way head can be very confusing in this mode. I don't know if you could get the lens' centerline all the way down to ground level, but you'd probably be able to have the rail down there. With a rotating back you'd be able to get lower (and be assured of proper vertical alignment regardless of the position.)

Daniel Geiger

1-Aug-2005, 12:05

I use a Gitzo 1325/1327 with a short column for an Arca F-line 4x5. The legs move indepedently, though when you put all three legs at the lowest angle, the bottom part of the tube through which the center column goes will hit the ground. The next problem I have encountered is the height of the ball head, so effectively you can only get to 10-12 inches above ground. I have been hanging the Arca upside down from the center post. The disk with the hook will also secure the center column from sliding all the way out of the guiding tube. Operating the camera through the legs is another pain in the rear. But you can do fine adjustments of the height by using front and rear "rise" (actually fall, when upside down). Note that the lens axis is still at least 3 inches from the ground simply because of camera dimensions. I do it outdoors for flowers, so it is LF belly photography. The advantage of the legs on the side is that you can lean reflectors agains them.

Scott Davis

1-Aug-2005, 12:51

You can get a number of the Gitzo tripods with just a mounting platform, no center column, to which you can attach a head. They will hold your camera with ease, and you can spread the legs to I think 80 degrees, which will put the mounting plate around 4" off the ground. You should also look into getting a low-profile head like the Gitzo 1370/1570.

John Layton

1-Aug-2005, 13:33

I use a Gitzo 1325 Carbon Fiber (no center column) with a 1370 low profile magnesium head with my L-45A. This combo is light and yet wonderfully ridgid, and offers a very sturdy platform almost down to ground level. And with the multi position legs I really don't miss the adjustable center colum. This tripod/head combo is little pricey, but peerless in my view for this kind of work with a view camera. Try one before you buy if you can - you might want to go to the next larger combo (1525 tripod/1570 head) but I find the 1325/1370 to be perfect for my needs. A note about the effectiveness of the 1370 head - the cork mounting pad is very generous in area, and to fully realize its benefits the mounting surface of your camera should likewize have a fairly broad "footprint." A much smaller mounting surface on the camera and/or on a quick release can become the weak link in this chain. Again - try before you buy!

Dan Jolicoeur

1-Aug-2005, 13:49

On my Bogen 3021 Pro there is a triangular screw on one end. Remove that and slide out the center column. You can then screw the triangular 3/8-16 adapter into the top of the tripod and swing the legs all the way out.
Regards,

Wilbur Wong

1-Aug-2005, 16:01

I use a Gitzo 2227, I have owned a Sinar F which I have used on Ries as well as this Gitzo. Currently I hang a Linhof MT 2000 on my 2227.

I have had my camera lens at 12 inches from the ground! Working at this height can be very challenging. If I am near my car, I spread a furniture moving blanket down first so I can lie down to look at the ground glass.

Stability is great as far as I am concerned. I know many photographers scoff at vibrations of a central post and would be vehement about a central post which is pointed off sideways! But then again, I don't see them photographing at odd angles and view points. The 2227 which is part of their explorer series as I recall (I use the carbon fiber) is a very versatile tripod. (and expensive depending on your entry point) Also the camera is right side up not hanging from an inverted post.

If anyone is really concerned about stability - really more vibration issues, I have always been able to counterbalance or hang my pack or something off my tripod to make photography possible. Wind blowing my subject matter is a different matter altogether ! ! ! !

Graeme Hird

1-Aug-2005, 17:46

I use a Benbo with my Tachihara - I love it.

Ralph's suggestion of a block of wood seems like the best solution for you. Put a bolt through a piece of plywood and mount your head on it - it's the cheapest and most stable solution.

Cheers,

Daniel_5275

2-Aug-2005, 01:31

Excelent replies, thank you all so much.
This gives me LOADS to go on so hopefully I can now find something which suits me. I must say, if memory serves me correctly, there's a large thread on the bottom of my center-post - perhaps I'll look into upside-down mounting to begin with.

Thanks again - you've all been a great help!

Dan.

tor kviljo

2-Aug-2005, 01:51

ANY modern surveyors tripod normally goes all flat, have individual foldable legs & is by far the most stable tripod you can buy new pr $$. You will find the type I use (I use Sinar up to 8"x10") for less than $$ 100 in US, readily used with any pro-head with base diametre 3" or more. Modern surveyors tripod is lightveight alu-tubing & alu-castings in platform, strong resin/plastic in feed & other not strained parts = much more reasonable in weight than the older wood-brass-beasts. Mine (which I have shortened a little) is 7-8 pounds w/o head

ronald moravec

2-Aug-2005, 12:16

My Gitzo 1227 although a little light for 4x5, is great for low angle. The legs splay out 90 deg and you replace the center column with the short one that is five or six inches tall. This gets right on the ground and will steady a 4x5. They have heavier models that do the same.

Reversing center columns are a pain IMHO.

John Hoenstine

2-Aug-2005, 20:22

Look at Ries tripods. They go flat and if you don't use a head and flip your Sinar 90 degrees on its mounting block you should be almost at ground level. Also Irving Penn used a triangular metal plate with a mounting screw to be at ground level. It is in his book Images in a Small Room and could easily be adapted to a larger camera.

Good Luck
John Hoenstine

Julio Fernandez

6-Aug-2005, 18:52

The Bembo does what other tripods dare not attempt. The Uni-Lok version is similarly designed but sturdier. For doing the impossible and getting the camera into the strangest positions you ever dreamed of, nothing beats it. It is a heavy tripod and for that reason I only take it for short hikes with my 4X5. I have used and discarded several Linhofs, Gitzos etc. but I will never get rid of my Unilok even it often has to stay home when I go with my Gitzo. One word: if your hand dexterity and 3D spatial sense and coordination are lacking, the Bembo / Unilock are not for you, you will be one of its haters, else one of its devotees!

Daniel_5275

25-Aug-2005, 02:04

Again, thanks to everyone here.

Now, I already have a Manfrotto 074B (Bogen 3233) which is heavy but very nice. Problem is, it only drops to 26" minimum which, with head connected is nowhere near low-enough for me.

My question now is; can this be modified in any way to allow it to drop further? If I was to remove the centre-braces, I'm guessing I'll be adversely affecting the integrity of the tripod? If anyone can suggest any modification I can use to drop this lower, without affecting stability too much, I'll be happy to give it a shot!

Thanks for yor time again,

Dan.

David A. Goldfarb

25-Aug-2005, 02:45

John_4185

25-Aug-2005, 06:24

Some time ago I had to shoot from as low as possible with 4x5 and ended up making a small, lightweight platform with three wooden legs and used a panoramic leveling head (much like the lower part of a surveyor's instrument) to finness the alignment. Alltogether, the center of the lens was about 14" above ground. Is that low enough?

Emmanuel BIGLER

25-Aug-2005, 06:54

There is small tripod not mentioned here, the Novoflex basic BB, that could be worth looking at, even if at a first glance this suggestion might appear a bit provocative ;-)This tripod consists of an alumin(i)um sphere into which 3 rigid steel legs are screwed with standard 'photo' 1/4" threads. Those small legs are ended by hard rubber balls. In the standard configuration and the widest possible angle, those legs are long enough to firmly support very close to ground a medium format camera or a light weight 4x5" view camera with a wide-angle or a standard lens, and, according to the manufactuere's specs, can support a load of 25 kg (over 50 l bs.) which is truly amazing. Novoflex offers as an add-on telescopic legs that can serve as conventional telescopic walking sticks; fitted with 3 walking sticks the tripod is rated for 10 kg (22lbs).

Bob Salomon

25-Aug-2005, 07:39

Emmanuel,

What you left out of the BB Ball description is that each leg can be screwed in to one of three holes. There are three sets of three vertical holes arranged around the BB Ball. The highest of the three holes sets the camera at the tallest position. The lowest of the three holes sets the camera at the lowest position which would place the camera about 3" above the ground.

In between each set of three holes are additional threaded holes to support various Novoflex helper arms like their heavy duty goosenecks. These can then be fitted with small ball heads with or without flash shoes, refletctor clamps and even special clamps to hold plant stems or leaves. Thus one BB Ball can be set up to hold a camera system in to the 50 lb range + a pair of flash heads or a flash and a fill-in reflector or a flash and a background card or a background card and a plant stem. This leaves both hands free for operating the camera.

Daniel_5275

1-Sep-2005, 05:01

Well, after much thought, and the great help of the people here, I found a Uni-loc Major tripod on ebay. Received today, haven't used with camera yet but what a great piece of kit! I think it'll be perfect for both my LF and 35mm work.

Thanks yet again for all your help, it's been invalueable. At long last, I think (hope) I've got it all sorted!

Cheers,

Dan.

gliderbee

23-Jan-2011, 09:56

I have a Bogen 3233. There is a 3/8" stud on the bottom of the column for mounting the head for low-angle work. You can mount the camera upside down and rotate the back 180-degrees so it works just like it does rightside up (tilts reversed, of course).

I have a Manfrotto 074B and there's indeed a stud on the bottom of the column, but I don't really see how I can mount the head on it: those center-braces get in the way: I can't turn the head to screw it on, because of all those handles sticking out ... I also don't see how it can work if I would get it mounted: the handles of the head would still stick out and impede most movement ... How is it done ?

Thanks,
STefan.

Ari

23-Jan-2011, 10:30

Good luck with your purchase, I hope it's what you need.
I was going to recommend the Induro A413; it takes a 20kg load, and the legs fold out to 90˚. With the supplied short center column, you get about 11 inches (27cm) from the ground.
Remove the column, and you're at 7 inches (17cm) from ground level.

Tripods with a boom arm/extension would worry me too much; I would have to bring a sandbag or other weight, and that would negate trying to travel lightly.

John Koehrer

23-Jan-2011, 15:46

Gitzo also has side arms available. If you have a screw on the bottom of the column.
Bogen super clamps can mount to a leg & a camera mount attached.
Quick & cheap? Plywood base & screw. #2 above.

Dan Fromm

23-Jan-2011, 15:57

John, none of the expedients you and Ari mention will really get the camera's optical axis down to ground level. There's a difference between low and on the ground. Also, no one has mentioned recently that focusing and composing are quite uncomfortable when the camera's platform or rail is on the ground.

I've hung cameras upside down from the tripod's center post, have a Bogen side arm that attaches to the bottom of the center post, ... Either way, setting up isn't fun.

I've finally found gadgetry that makes things setting up for a shot more comfortable. Spiratone that used to be sold a device called a Mirrotach, a mirror box with a front surface mirror and a coupling that attaches to a Series filter holder. With the bottom of the box on the ground, the optical axis is about 3" above ground. Digging a hole for the mirror box will allow a lower optical axis.

To use, attach the Mirrotach to the lens, attach the camera, facing straight down, to the end of the side arm, and there you are. Setting up isn't easy or fun by any means, but focusing and composing don't require lying on the ground or contortions. Its a great improvement, and it puts the lens optical axis much lower than what you and Ari have suggested.