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View Full Version : Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach users??????



xkaes
22-Sep-2017, 09:46
Has anyone -- other than me -- used a Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach, or similar mirror device (I think Beseler made one) to project an image on a wall with enlargers that don't flip? I'm sure this has been discussed before. It's worked for me. Any pros and cons from users?

The Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach that I use is a front surface mirror with a series 7 thread, so it was easy to adapt to MOST of my lenses.

170144

Bob Salomon
22-Sep-2017, 09:50
Beseler enlargers do flip to project an image directly in front of them.
This device was sold to be able to candidly take a picture at a right angle to the camera. While I was a product manager for Beseler enlargers we did not offer these. Argraph might have as well as Voss.

xkaes
22-Sep-2017, 10:03
Beseler enlargers do flip to project an image directly in front of them.

I'm lucky enough to have a Beseler MXII that does flip, but my Beseler CB7 does not, hence my use of the Mirrotach -- which, as you point out, was designed for use on-camera. I've also used a lot of enlargers that don't flip, so many people might think that their only option is a wide-angle lens.

Do you have any info on the similar products that Beseler -- or others -- offered? I'm happy with the Mirrotach, but other devices might be easier, flexible, etc. The Mirrotach rotates which makes it easy to use -- and they are pretty cheap to buy!

Bob Salomon
22-Sep-2017, 10:25
I'm lucky enough to have a Beseler MXII that does flip, but my Beseler CB7 does not, hence my use of the Mirrotach -- which, as you point out, was designed for use on-camera. I've also used a lot of enlargers that don't flip, so many people might think that their only option is a wide-angle lens.

Do you have any info on the similar products that Beseler -- or others -- offered? I'm happy with the Mirrotach, but other devices might be easier, flexible, etc. The Mirrotach rotates which makes it easy to use -- and they are pretty cheap to buy!

Sorry no, they have not been available for many decades and while I was in the photo industry from 1970 till 2015 I never saw them sold new as a camera store item during that time. I remember them from selling photo retail in the late 50s and the 60s.

LabRat
22-Sep-2017, 20:13
Interesting thought, but using this device for projection printing would throw an image onto some wall or something that's not aligned...

Maybe OK for some poster print, but not for normal to critical printing where even edge to edge sharpness is expected...

Steve K

xkaes
23-Sep-2017, 05:38
Of course, it has to be aligned, but that is true if you are projecting onto the baseboard or the floor -- and easy to do by scratching an "X" on an over-exposed piece of film and checking the corners of the projected image.

xkaes
23-Sep-2017, 06:16
OK, here is the scoop. Although I use a Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach, Beseler made a "Wall Projection Attachment" (Cat. No. 8247) for the CB7 -- which is non-flipping. It probably only attches to the CB7 -- which has four, small screw holes -- two on each side of the lensboard standard. My Beseler 45 MX II does not have these holes, but perhaps other Beseler enlargers do. These holes are undoubtedly where the #8247 is attached. Beseler states it has a front surface mirror, just like the Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach, but I can't find a picture of one. Beseler also made a long focusing cable so that you can focus the enlarger while being close to the mural. Most CB7 enlargers, unlike mine, have auto-focus. So if you want to make LARGE prints, there are at least two devices that can help. The Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach is inexpensive, easy to find, and adapt. The #8247? Not so much.

Bob Salomon
23-Sep-2017, 06:55
OK, here is the scoop. Although I use a Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach, Beseler made a "Wall Projection Attachment" (Cat. No. 8247) for the CB7 -- which is non-flipping. It probably only attches to the CB7 -- which has four, small screw holes -- two on each side of the lensboard standard. My Beseler 45 MX II does not have these holes, but perhaps other Beseler enlargers do. These holes are undoubtedly where the #8247 is attached. Beseler states it has a front surface mirror, just like the Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach, but I can't find a picture of one. Beseler also made a long focusing cable so that you can focus the enlarger while being close to the mural. Most CB7 enlargers, unlike mine, have auto-focus. So if you want to make LARGE prints, there are at least two devices that can help. The Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach is inexpensive, easy to find, and adapt. The #8247? Not so much.

The CB7 did not have autofocus. It had remote, manual electric focus, by pressing the switches on the front edge of the base board. If it had AF it would have had to use a cam system.
Beseler offered a flexible rod that attached to the focusing wheel to facilitate focusing when the head was very high.

Jac@stafford.net
23-Sep-2017, 08:50
Upon the rare occasion there are used process camera lenses with attached right-angle reflectors.
Unless they have been damaged they are very good.

xkaes
23-Sep-2017, 09:54
[QUOTE=Bob Salomon;1408667]The CB7 did not have autofocus. It had remote, manual electric focus, by pressing the switches on the front edge of the base board. /QUOTE]

You're correct, but many users and web sites call it "auto-focus". Beseler called it "power focus" since you use a toggle switch to change focus, instead of a knob. Since I'm completely at home using a knob, I don't mind the fact that my CB7 didn't come with "power focus".

Leica used a somewhat similar system on one of its enlargers. When you changed the height/magnification it adjusted the lens/bellows extension accordingly.

Bob Salomon
23-Sep-2017, 10:17
[QUOTE=Bob Salomon;1408667]The CB7 did not have autofocus. It had remote, manual electric focus, by pressing the switches on the front edge of the base board. /QUOTE]

You're correct, but many users and web sites call it "auto-focus". Beseler called it "power focus" since you use a toggle switch to change focus, instead of a knob. Since I'm completely at home using a knob, I don't mind the fact that my CB7 didn't come with "power focus".

Leica used a somewhat similar system on one of its enlargers. When you changed the height/magnification it adjusted the lens/bellows extension accordingly.
Then many web sites and users don’t know what they are talking about. That doesn’t give anyone an excuse to further spread ridiculously incorrect and misleading information.

Lots of companies made true auto focus enlargers. Some, like Leica, Durst, Omega made models that used a cut cam to mate the len# to the enlarger for autofocus. The most basic versions used a cam cut to a focal length only while better versions used cams mated to a specific lens by serial number. Other companies like Kaiser and Homerich used electronic autofocus where the enlarger remembered the characteristics of specific lenses by programming them when the6 wer3 first mounted.
Other companies like Rollei offered electronic focusing by remote control with a controller similar to the ones on slide projectors.
But the CB 7, like the Rollei, simply had manual focusing via a switch. Much different then AF.

xkaes
23-Sep-2017, 11:05
[QUOTE=xkaes;1408691]
Then many web sites and users donít know what they are talking about. That doesnít give anyone an excuse to further spread ridiculously incorrect and misleading information.

Bob, you need to calm down. Have a glass of wine. I'm not the first to say that there is a lot of "ridiculously incorrect" info "out there". Lots of camera companies -- decades ago -- claimed to have "automatic exposure" when, in fact, you had to do certain things first -- like set the f-stop or shutter speed or more. Today, most photographers call them "automatic exposure cameras", while purists call them "semi-automatic exposure cameras". Then the purists go take a cold shower. I'm not making an excuse for anything that is "inaccurate", but that is hard enough to define -- let alone "ridiculously".

Right now, I'm going to take a pill, and then use my fully automatic camera -- which I guess is really not fully automatic since I have to turn it on.

Bob Salomon
23-Sep-2017, 11:32
[QUOTE=Bob Salomon;1408697]

Bob, you need to calm down. Have a glass of wine. I'm not the first to say that there is a lot of "ridiculously incorrect" info "out there". Lots of camera companies -- decades ago -- claimed to have "automatic exposure" when, in fact, you had to do certain things first -- like set the f-stop or shutter speed or more. Today, most photographers call them "automatic exposure cameras", while purists call them "semi-automatic exposure cameras". Then the purists go take a cold shower. I'm not making an excuse for anything that is "inaccurate", but that is hard enough to define -- let alone "ridiculously".

Right now, I'm going to take a pill, and then use my fully automatic camera -- which I guess is really not fully automatic since I have to turn it on.

Original automatic cameras were either aperture priority automatic or shutter priority automatic. Both were automatic exposure systems compared to earlier cameras requiring the user to have to set both aperture and shutter #peed. Either by referring to an exposure meter, a chart or experience. Later programmed automatic cameras were introduced that set both aperture and shutter speed for the user. All three systems were, and still are, fully automatic systems. All also work best if the user knows if they want to capture fast movement or if depth of field, or lack of it is of primary importance or if they are willing to let the camera make the decisions for them.

However this has nothing to do with your perpetuating incorrect information about auto focus on an enlarger that never had it.

Back in the day Kodak commissioned Margret Burke White to use her Rolleiflex TLR to shoot typical family scenes to illustrate the advertising, flyers, ads and packaging fo4 their series of 127 and 620 Brownie cameras.

The only problem was that the cameras she used allowed her to have complete control of capturing action and control DOF, but the cameras that were sold from her photography didnít allow the user to do that. I was in retail then and had to constantly explain why a disappointed Brownie owner had to spend quite a bit more to have that type of control with a manually adjustable camera.
If they were happy with record shots they were happy with the Brownie, if they wanted images like the ones on the Brownie packaging they had to spend more and learn some basic photography.

xkaes
23-Sep-2017, 12:30
170172

I guess this all depends on how you define >>> "your perpetuating incorrect information" <<< Shouldn't that be "you're perpetuating ridiculously incorrect information"?

Believe me, I have much more important and enjoyable endeavors. I trust you do, too. Better yet, watch a Marx Brothers' movie! I will.

MrFujicaman
28-Sep-2017, 09:46
Omega also made a 45% mirror attachment for the D-series enlargers. My copy of 1976's "The Photography Catalog" shows it on page 103. Judging from the picture, it might be adaptable to the CB7. I have no idea if Omega still makes it. If you want, I'll scan the page and email it to you if you want to explore that route.

MrFujicaman
28-Sep-2017, 10:14
Okay, I just ran a search for the Omega mirror attachment. KHB in Canada has 2-it's Omega part # 429-070 and KHB's stock # 9-429-070. Looking at the picture KHB had, it should be fairly easy to adapt to a 4" Beseler lens board with drilling 2 holes and tapping them for screws to hold it.

xkaes
29-Sep-2017, 04:33
First of all, I don't need a 90-degree enlarging device. I have one. I was merely pointing out that Beseler made one -- which at least fits on its CB7 enlarger.

I just checked, and what I thought was a Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach device (see original picture) is, in fact, a Marexar Squintar (on the box) and Asanuma Squintar (on the device). But it looks and acts just like the Spiratone Circo-Mirrotach, so it's not much of a stretch to assume that they were made on the same assemply line. (And, after all, Spiratone simply sold products made by other companies and re-badged as "Spiratone" -- for example, the Spiratone 500mm f8 Minitel which was a rebadged Yashica 500mm f8 DX.) The Squintar is designed for use on a taking lens, but works fine on an enlarging lens, as well. It is undoubtedly easier to find and afford than either the Beseler or Omega devices -- which will only attach to certain enlargers -- but attaching the Spiratone/Asanuma device might be simple or not.

The Spiratone/Asanumas were sold with a Series adapter of your choice. Mine has a Series 7. This allows you to convert up or down to whatever filter size you need for you lens. It also allows you to rotate the mirror to get the angle you want. So all you need to do is match up your enlarging lens(es) to a filter size of your choice or a Series adapter. Some enlarger lenses lack a front filter thread, such as my Minolta enlarging lenses, but I was able to solve with "problem" with a little bit of ingenuity and silicon sealant.

MrFujicaman
30-Sep-2017, 13:31
Xkaes...just trying to help !