minimum focusing distance (Wista 45DX) 4x5 for bust shots

[anorphirith]

Hey folks.
I recently bought a wista45dx 4x5 camera with a 210mm 300mm and 90mm lens.
I've shot it so far with a 90mm, 300mm and a 240mm (rented)

I bought the 300mm to be shot wide open in order to achieve minimal DOF. But I was disappointed that, at maximum extension, I could only do full body shots. When my goal was to do bust shots.
The 240mm allowed me to get closer but still not close enough for a bust shot.

The 90mm was no problem for bust shots but I won't have the DOF wanted. also is there significant distortion shooting with the 90mm when the subject less than a meter away from the lens ?

I was wondering if there was a Goldilocks lens for that camera where I could have great DOF and I could do busts. or if I got a 4x5 camera with longer bellows if that would allow me to focus closer.

thanks

[Bob Salomon]

You can add one of the extension beds and bellows to focus closer. You can add more than twice the existing bellows extension. Depending on which bed and bellows you buy.

[anorphirith]

thanks, are extension bellows interchangeable between 4x5 cameras ? I only see 2 wista extension bellows on ebay and none of them precise the DX model

[anorphirith]

would I need the extension with the M450 model ?

[Bob Salomon]

would I need the extension with the M450 model ?

No, that one is a monorail camera. The DX is a folding field camera.

[Bob Salomon]

thanks, are extension bellows interchangeable between 4x5 cameras ? I only see 2 wista extension bellows on ebay and none of them precise the DX model

Look up the DX on B&H web site.

[Louis Pacilla]

Hey anorphirith I'm not sure if you access to any Wista catalogs/pamphlets but if go to this http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/rlWistaMisc.htm site and you will be able to check over all your options and which model does what as there are quit a few catalogs/pamphlets of Wista field and some rail cameras and a few pamphlets which go over accessories including the extension beds/bellows.

[scm]

The extension beds and bellows are for the metal Wista cameras (such as the D, VX and SP), they aren't going to work on the wooden field cameras.

[anorphirith]

The extension beds and bellows are for the metal Wista cameras (such as the D, VX and SP), they aren't going to work on the wooden field cameras.

so I would have to get a monorail camera then ?

[Bob Salomon]

so I would have to get a monorail camera then ?

No, they also have ones for the wood ones.

[scm]

No, they also have ones for the wood ones.

The OP has a Wista DX, they don't have interchangeable bellows. The only wooden Wista camera that did was the DX3 (or DX III) and they are very uncommon, I've had dozens of Wista field cameras and have never even seen one.

Edit: I see that B&H has the optical bench that will work with the wooden cameras without interchangeable bellows. The one drawback there is the $2000 price for the bench and the bellows.

[B.S.Kumar]

I've never seen extension beds for the wooden Wista cameras. The data sheets and price lists linked above also do not show them.

Kumar

Edit: If that extension is indeed available for $2,000 the OP might as well get a metal Wista field camera. His backpack and wallet will both be heavier!
A top hat lens board with extensions is available on eBay for ~$100. That might be all that he needs.

[scm]

They look like this:

https://static.bhphoto.com/images/images500x500/1337782045000_167988.jpg

[Neal Chaves]

Get a high quality plus lens ("close-up filter") like a B&W. I have two that work well with my longer lenses, a 67mm and a 77mm in .5 diopter, and reduce bellows extension considerably.

[Bob Salomon]

Get a high quality plus lens ("close-up filter") like a B&W. I have two that work well with my longer lenses, a 67mm and a 77mm in .5 diopter, and reduce bellows extension considerably.

B&W is a type of film. B+W is a filter manufacturer.

[AtlantaTerry]

Hey folks.
I recently bought a Wista45DX 4x5 camera with a 210mm, 300mm and 90mm lens.
I've shot it so far with a 90mm, 300mm and a 240mm (rented)

I bought the 300mm to be shot wide open in order to achieve minimal DOF. But I was disappointed that, at maximum extension, I could only do full body shots. When my goal was to do bust shots.
The 240mm allowed me to get closer but still not close enough for a bust shot.

The 90mm was no problem for bust shots but I won't have the DOF wanted. also is there significant distortion shooting with the 90mm when the subject less than a meter away from the lens ?

I was wondering if there was a Goldilocks lens for that camera where I could have great DOF and I could do busts. or if I got a 4x5 camera with longer bellows if that would allow me to focus closer.

Thanks


What is the 300mm lens you got with your camera? Since you have a bellows draw that isn't enough for the lens and headshots, you might want to rent a 300mm Telephoto lens to test to see if it fits your needs.

In case you are not familiar with a Telephoto lens, the short story is they are designed to do what you want: headshots (or similar close work) on a camera with a limited bellows draw. Other folks here or Google will be a better source about Telephotos than I am.

I know what you are going through because I like to do headshots and bust portraits. I have a Schneider 360mm f/5.6 lens that need a considerably long bellows draw but my 4x5" Cambo has the capability of swapping bellows from regular to bag to extra long so my "normal" is one of the long Cambo bellows as shown here:
168528
BTW, the second (smaller) bellows to the right of my Cambo is only a bellows-style lens hood that attaches to the front of the camera to shade the lens.

Last year when I bought a new 4x5" Chamonix, I also bought a camera base extension and longer bellows so I would be ready to create portrait busts or headshots with one my several 360mm lenses.

Another solution you might look into is a "tophat". This is a lens board that instead of being flat is built up so the lens extends a couple inches forward. There is at least one person on eBay who builds custom lensboards so they might be able to help you.

[AtlantaTerry]

oops I replied to myself.

Moderators: please delete this posting.

[Huub]

Why didn't you try the 210mm you already seems to have? With my Toyo 45A (30 cm bellows draw too) i have found that 210mm allows for nice bust shots without getting too close to people. For portraits it is my favourite lens.
As an alternative you could get a f5.5 360mm Tele Xenar, which will also do the job nicely. As a tele design it only needs 210mm of belows draw at infinity and at 300mm bellows draw it does let you shoot nice bust shots. The large maximum aperture helps to keep DOF limited.

[Neal Chaves]

B&W is a type of film. B+W is a filter manufacturer.

You got me there Bob, now go after all those who write "Technica" instead of "Technika".

During my participation in the late unpleasantness in Vietnam, I visited the Nikon Building in Tokyo. While a nice gentleman there was showing me the new Nikon FTN, I mentioned to him that in the mainland US, people say "Nykon", not "Kneekon" as in Japan or Hawaii. He smiled and said "We don't care what they call it, as long as they have the yen for it!"

[David Karp]

The least expensive solution was proposed by Kumar. An extension lensboard is just a tube that screws into the board with a cap on the other end. Check eBay. Should be perfect for portraits.

[chassis]

On a Toyo 45AII, 355mm bellows draw is needed for head and shoulders framing with a 300mm lens. This is with a subject to lens distance of approx 4.5 feet or 1370mm. Should be similar for any 4x5 camera. The differences between cameras will be what combination of parts, pieces and accessories are needed to achieve the bellows draw.

[anorphirith]

how did you calculate that ? if I knew that, it would have saved me lots of time

[mitrajoon]

I hate demonstrating my ignorance, but I made the same mistake. Now I have a beautiful Nikor 300mm lens for sale because I didn't know I couldn't use it with my Wista SP. Could someone explain exactly which "top hat lens board" I should get so I can keep this lens and take portraits? I looked on eBay and simply couldn't figure out what to buy.

[scm]

This is one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Extension-Lens-Board-For-Linhof-Wista-Shen-Hao-4x5-Large-Format-Camera/271186737287?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41376%26meid%3De9767eba702847dabe96484f5cc998c8%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D401368087668&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851)

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/pqcAAOSw5cNYdgQj/s-l1600.jpg

[anorphirith]

looks like the chamonix 45n-2 has 395mm focusing distance and the extension to 500mm only costs 120$ more.
anyone wants to buy my mint condition wista 45dx ;)

[David Lobato]

Going back to the original post and the quest for a Goldilocks lens, a monorail camera may be just the thing to suit such a lens. Monorail cameras are usually cheaper than folding field cameras and are very easy to use with generous bellows extension (400+mm is common) and lots of movements, especially back rise for portraits. If you will use it at home and close to home, then why not consider one?

[hoffy]

Why didn't you try the 210mm you already seems to have? With my Toyo 45A (30 cm bellows draw too) i have found that 210mm allows for nice bust shots without getting too close to people. For portraits it is my favourite lens.
As an alternative you could get a f5.5 360mm Tele Xenar, which will also do the job nicely. As a tele design it only needs 210mm of belows draw at infinity and at 300mm bellows draw it does let you shoot nice bust shots. The large maximum aperture helps to keep DOF limited.

Funny that this thread should be prevalent now. I have exactly the same question as the OP, but am using a 45A in the same way as Huub.

So I don't start a new thread, how much draw would I need to get a decent bust/head shot using a non tele 240mm lens? Would I get away with it on a Toyo 45A without a extension back?

Cheers.

BTW, my current go to for Large format portraits at the moment, Tariq Tarey, uses 180mm lenses. He gets nice torso and up shots with his kit.

If

[Mick Fagan]

Interesting question Hoffy, pulled out the Toyo 45G, placed a 250mm W Fujinon (non telephoto) and worked on close focusing to get a 400mm object in a vertical presentation in the focus area one would use for portraits, give or take, on the ground glass.

Decided to use my hacksaw which is almost exactly 400mm long. The picture of the hacksaw is cropped to represent what was on the ground glass, give or take.

Actual bellows extension was exactly 235mm between the standards. Your camera may be a bit different for actual bellows extension, but it wouldn't be too much different.

From the front of the lens to the hacksaw is approximately 1325mm.

I could have gone closer, but realistically this is about where I do bust shots.

For what it is worth, I have used (still have) a Linhof Schneider Kreuznach Tele-Arton f/5.6 250mm lens for doing portrait shots. I picked this lens up on a whim for use on my Shen Hao 4x5" wooden folder camera to do portraits on the road. It is alright, I used it for about 3-4 years specifically for that purpose. But, if you can, I would suggest a standard long focal length lens works better. At least in my case it has; wanna buy a Tele_Arton 250mm :D

Since replacing the Tele-Arton with the 250mm Fujinon, I haven't looked at the Tele-Arton.

Mick.

168558


168557


168556

[hoffy]

Nice to see you are still around Mick! I haven't seen responses from you on a forum for a while (but I haven't been looking too hard either....)

That is the kind of response I was after. According to the stats, a 45AII can facilitate a 300mm lens. How this translates in close focusing subjects, I have no idea. I'm still new to this game!

I am assuming the Fujinon you are using is a Tele?

Like all the cool kids, I am looking for a as fast a lens as possible, so I can get that minimal DOF that seems to be the fashion of the day (I say that in jest, but yes, that is the exact look that I am after). At least I know I could get a 240mm standard lens and it should work.

[Mick Fagan]

Hoffy, I am not using a telephoto Fujinon.

It is a Fujinon W f/6.3/250 lens.

Just like this.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=fujinon+w+250mm+f/6.3&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjl6dCoy93VAhXBy7wKHYXBCNgQ_AUICigB&biw=1536&bih=734#imgrc=4V19ZWQRAlj7cM:

Mick.

[hoffy]

OK, thanks. My mistake. I've not seen this one mentioned in my research over the last few days. The one I see mentioned the most is the 240 A.

[Huub]

That is the kind of response I was after. According to the stats, a 45AII can facilitate a 300mm lens. How this translates in close focusing subjects, I have no idea. I'm still new to this game!

Like all the cool kids, I am looking for a as fast a lens as possible, so I can get that minimal DOF that seems to be the fashion of the day (I say that in jest, but yes, that is the exact look that I am after). At least I know I could get a 240mm standard lens and it should work.

You can focus a non-tele 300mm at infinity with a 45A and a bit closer too, but not to the amount you would like for bust shots. For minimal DOF i would like to repeat my earlier suggestion: get yourself a f5.5 360mm tele-xenar. It will allow for bust shots with your camera and the f5.5 is about as fast as it gets for this focal lenght.

[hoffy]

You can focus a non-tele 300mm at infinity with a 45A and a bit closer too, but not to the amount you would like for bust shots. For minimal DOF i would like to repeat my earlier suggestion: get yourself a f5.5 360mm tele-xenar. It will allow for bust shots with your camera and the f5.5 is about as fast as it gets for this focal lenght.

Cheers. I had a quick look at they are probably a touch above my "lets play with this for a while" budget. But I will keep this in mind and add it to my research pile.

[neil poulsen]

Please see my PM about an extension that would work with your camera.

I just sold a Wista SP and experienced a similar problem and purchased the extension mentioned in my PM. I was trying to extend the front standard to accept a 355mm G-Claron. But even with a metal technical field camera, the combination seemed kind of wobbly.

In addition to the 355mm G-Claron, I also have a 385mm Wollensak Tele-Rapter that's quite a heavy lens. My Wista SP easily held this lens in a stable way. So, you might be better off with a 300mm tele lens.

[mitrajoon]

SCM,

Thxs. Just to be sure, I would buy a copal 1 version of the extension board. I would remove my Nikor 300mm lens from it's current lens board and attach it to this one. Once I mount the lens and new board onto my Wista SP, I will be able to do close ups, portraits etc. Correct?

Any "tricks" or issues in mounting and remounting?

[Bob Salomon]

SCM,

Thxs. Just to be sure, I would buy a copal 1 version of the extension board. I would remove my Nikor 300mm lens from it's current lens board and attach it to this one. Once I mount the lens and new board onto my Wista SP, I will be able to do close ups, portraits etc. Correct?

Any "tricks" or issues in mounting and remounting?

Yes, providing any rear element fits into the extended boards tube.

[scm]

SCM,

Thxs. Just to be sure, I would buy a copal 1 version of the extension board. I would remove my Nikor 300mm lens from it's current lens board and attach it to this one. Once I mount the lens and new board onto my Wista SP, I will be able to do close ups, portraits etc. Correct?

Any "tricks" or issues in mounting and remounting?

It depends on which 300mm Nikon lens you have, I can't see where you specified the model. A Nikkor M 300 f/9 is in a #1 shutter, the Nikkor W 300mm f/5.6 is in a #3 shutter.

[mitrajoon]

SCM,

Mine is f/9 copal 1. Any concerns that the "rear element fits into the extended boards tube"? (Thxs Bob S).

[scm]

SCM,

Mine is f/9 copal 1. Any concerns that the "rear element fits into the extended boards tube"? (Thxs Bob S).

No, you won't have any problem at all.

[Bob Salomon]

SCM,

Mine is f/9 copal 1. Any concerns that the "rear element fits into the extended boards tube"? (Thxs Bob S).

Not with a process lens like yours.

[mitrajoon]

Thank you both.

[anorphirith]

I sold my Wista and have a 045n2 on the way from Hugo,
thanks everyone