View Full Version : using vintage equipment
Hi,
I take photos with vintage cameras, mostly 35mm and 120 but I've been thinking of jumping to large format for quite awhile. I bought this camera yesterday. It's a Unicum pneumatic shutter 5 x 7 camera. No other name except that it has Bausch & Lomb Opt. Co. with a patent date looking like January 8 81 written on the lens. It's in great shape. The lens works fine, all speeds seem okay, bellows are good, the ground glass is perfect and it came with three film holders in very good shape. One has 4 x 5 masks included in it.
Does anyone here work with vintage cameras? Could anyone give me more info on this camera, especially how to collapse it for transport? I think I need to take the lens board out but I'm baffled on how to fold it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
167962
um....just about everyone here
That's great! Please forgive the obvious question...I'm really new here. Also really new to LF photography. I meant cameras from around the turn of the century
oh yeah..a lot of people here do.. someone is going to know offhand what camera you have... and they probably even have and use a similar model
Bob Salomon
7-Aug-2017, 09:07
That's great! Please forgive the obvious question...I'm really new here. Also really new to LF photography. I meant cameras from around the turn of the century
Which century?
Jim Noel
7-Aug-2017, 09:39
I can't give exact details of folding since this is not among my vintage cameras. This camera has obviously been altered by the addition of the two new hinges at the base of the front. I see no way to fold the camera with these in place. They were probably added for stability.
I see. Thanks. If I remove the hinges it should fold? Also...again I meant early 20th century.
Jim Noel
7-Aug-2017, 14:00
I see. Thanks. If I remove the hinges it should fold? Also...again I meant early 20th century.
I certainly would give it a try.
See if this video helps. It won't be exactly like this but it should give you the general idea.
https://youtu.be/8e0QN66RzYo
Thank you for the reply and the video. That was helpful. I'll try taking the hinges off and see what it does.
Tim Meisburger
7-Aug-2017, 14:54
No, don't take the hinges off. Loosen the nuts on the side of the lensboard, then you should be able to move the lens up and down (a movement called rise). Push the lensboard all the way down, the tilt the top of the board towards you. The lower pins on the side of the movable part should come out, allowing you to turn the lensboard horizontal. Now loosen the nuts holding the braces at the side and start tilting them back toward the camera. You will see the horizontal lensboard with lens attached moving toward the big round hole in the bottom of the camera. That is its home. Once you get it there, loosen the braces on the back of the camera and fold the back down on top of the lens. Done! (it folds like an Ikeda Anba).
The wista video above shows you exactly what to do. Don't take off the hinges!
Tim Meisburger
7-Aug-2017, 14:57
By the way, a camera is never called by its lens, as the lenses are replaceable. That looks like an old English-style field camera.
The hinges don't need to be removed, they will lay out flat and the front standard will "nest" between the rails.
(Tim beat me to it!)
I'll take a stab at it. I own about four field cameras from 1890s to 1925. This one looks to be from around 1900 to 1910. I'm guessing that because the bellows corners are angled, not square, and it took a different kind of tripod than something more modern. The tripod for this one had a big wooden mount that clipped into the base of the camera. You will definitely want a tripod to use this camera. The style of camera is British field camera. This style is still popular today. I don't think the camera is British because it has an American lens, but I could be wrong. The lens is almost certainly a rapid rectilinear, which is a four element design from around 1865; It's a good work horse lens, probably something like f11 (you can do the measurements and figure that out.) The Unicum shutter is notoriously inaccurate. I would see if the caps to the piston unscrew, and if they do you can carefully clean them out with a cotton swab. (Do not oil!) The lens might have a rotating wheel with different sized holes--that's the f-stops. Each will be one stop less than the next bigger one. Typically these run f11, 16, 22, 32, 45--but you'll have to measure the lens wide open to see. If there are markings on the wheel, keep in mind that the scale was different back then but f16 = f16 now. Are you sure it's 5x7 and not half plate? Half plate is close, something like 4.75 & 6.5 inches. I don't know if this camera will take modern film holders. Maybe. To fold you then loosen up the brass knobs, might not have to remove lens but the front of the camera will fold down towards the base. The rear of the camera should fold down over the front, collapsing the bellows. Retighten some knobs to keep everything in place. Check that the bellows are light tight: take camera into a darkened room, stick a flashlight inside the bellows and slowly pull it back and forth. Look for small holes, especially in the corner folds. Or, you could do a cat scan on the bellows (see below.)
Kent in SD
blue4130
7-Aug-2017, 16:09
Dont take the hinges off, they are supposed to be there. The front folds back, the lens can stay on, as it will sit in the hole on the base. You should loosen the screws on the front standard and the lens will be able to pivot. Its difficult to explain, but quite easy to do with the camera in hand.
Jac@stafford.net
7-Aug-2017, 16:11
For all practical purposes there is no provision for a modern tripod, but you can probably fashion a simple plate to make it good.
.
Oh I see. I haven't taken the hinges off so I'll try this way of folding it.
Thank you everyone this is a lot of good information. I was happy that it had three double sided film holders included that definitely fit this camera. I measured the space in the back and that was 5 x 7 so I assumed that was the size of the camera. What size of camera does that make it?
I also got two double sided mahogany (?) smaller film holders, I think they are 4 x 6, and a number of 8 x 10 Premo film holders with the wood tabs included with the camera and it's holders. The smaller film holders are Thornton Pickard and I know that's an English make.
The bellows are really dry, but no cracks that I can see. They are worn on the corners in places, scuffed where it folds. I gently cleaned them and then put on some leather conditioner. Is that the right thing to do? I can't see any pinholes, the bellows at the top of the lens board has separated a bit where it joins the wood, and that lets in a little light so I'll glue that back. Any advice on restoring bellows would be very welcome!
All I've done so far is cleaned it up, got rid of a lot of dust and checked for pinholes. The lens looks good. Thanks for the tip on the pistons I'll do that, there are little screws at the top of each piston so I should be able to clean them.
This is quite an adventure to use something so much bigger than my Nettar.
Hi Tim,
It worked! It folded up beautifully. Thanks
Were they like round discs with legs or something? I know I'll need something, there's no way I can hand hold this thing.
There's no name anywhere on the body of the camera.
Jac@stafford.net
7-Aug-2017, 17:54
Were they like round discs with legs or something? I know I'll need something, there's no way I can hand hold this thing.
Yea, round gizmos with old, usually worn out attachments to tired, rickety wood tripods. I would not look to find original parts. Put a board underneath with a proper tripod mount and be happy.
To check the bellows for leaks, you would take a bright LED flashlight that would fit on the inside of the bellows and shine towards the corners/top/sides etc while you are in a darkened room and look for clear holes/cracks etc...
The thing to check for next is if the film holders are for films or glass plates... Film holders will have small slots along the sides and bottom inside, but plate holders will have a spring metal clip usually at the top and bottom inside...
Modern film holders might fit/not fit in your camera back, and there can be a difference with the depth where the film sits affecting focus, so test for that... You can make an adapter for the camera back that will also hold an old back from a Graflex Speed or Crown Graphic that will hold modern holders easily...
May be some work to make it a shooter, but it would also make a VERY nice display camera... If you get it to work, a more modern lens and after not too long, the bellows will need replacement after not a lot of use, but there are inexpensive custom bellows that would work well (IF you love using this camera)...
Step by step...
Good Luck!!!
Steve K
Tim Meisburger
7-Aug-2017, 18:46
Great! I'm glad you got it folded. To determine the film size, measure the ground glass. Then if you have holders that fit the camera, you can use those,
You can put a board on the bottom of the camera with a modern tripod plate, but then you cannot close the camera with the lens mounted. That is not a big deal, as almost all modern field cameras cannot be folded with a lens on. Another option is to search ebay for one of the old tripods. I've seen them but never used one, but I expect you would want to make sure you have good measurements. Also, check ebay.co.uk, as I think they are more common that side of the pond.
Definitely shoot it, even if you are only shooting paper. Set it on a table and focus on your friend!
Cheers, Tim
Steven Tribe
8-Aug-2017, 00:37
It is not uncommon for UK cameras sold after the turn of the century (19-20th) to have USA shutters. Europe, in general, was late into getting into the "between" lens shutters. Even Busch, the German lensmaker, used the Unicum shutters ex. factory. The reason was probably because Thornton-Pickard was producing a quite reliable, simple and cheap front/rear curtain shutter. Other enclosed shutters, including the Unicum, were not fine instruments!
If it Is a UK camera, then the size is most likely to be 1/2 plate, rather than 5x7".
The brass ring mounted within the base hole - with three separate legs mounted to form a tripod - is basically a good stabile system. Of course, the ash wood can be split and the connections loose, but many I have seen are almost as good as new.
Tim Meisburger
8-Aug-2017, 03:04
Here are a couple of views of the type of legs I think Stephen is talking about. I have no idea if either of these would fit your camera:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOODEN-TRIPOD-LEGS-FOR-CAMERA-OR-LIGHTING-HOME-FURNISHING-STAND-LAMP-48-/112506298163?hash=item1a31e5df33:g:YysAAOSwwzhZW9Sd
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Folmer-Graflex-Crown-Tripod-No-2-Leg-Set-/192263765305?hash=item2cc3d03d39:g:PdsAAOSwVm5Y~5qu
Good luck!
You're right, it's a half plate. The frame for the glass has a different looking piece of wood on one side and I thought this meant someone put a shim in the frame to fit a smaller plate into a larger space because the original glass broke, but if you include the piece as a replacement for a frame edge, or if the edge just lost it's finish...it's pretty much 6.5 by 4.75. But I found 5 x 7 film sheaths in the film holders, so...I drew conclusions.
at least I have three film holders that fit exactly, and the sheaths fit in the holders though it has the prong arrangement for glass plates as well. I guess the film sheaths must overlap a bit inside the holder. I took some photos on paper last night, just to see if it really didn't have pinholes. It doesn't and I managed to get a not half bad image!
Would the name of the maker have been on the plate for the tripod, which in my camera is missing? What kind of lenses would have been original? Or What would be a really good contemporary lens? I'm traveling to Britain soon and would love to get something it would have had when it was made.
I know I'm asking a lot of questions. This is a whole new area of photography for me.
Take a close look at the lens board. If you don't see any screw holes, and the finish of the board the lens is mounted on matches the finish of the camera, it's likely the original lens. I use lenses made from 1905 to 1925 on my modern (2010) Chamonix 4x5. The reason is I like the classic look they give. I personally wouldn't put a modern (1980+) lens on that camera.
Kent in SD
Fr. Mark
8-Aug-2017, 20:31
One way to get that camera on a tripod would be to make a plate from plywood with edges of plywood that make it into a tray that snugly fits the camera with cut-outs for the focus knobs on the edges. This way you can tilt the camera more w/o as much worry it'd fall off the plate. Or, as someone said you could screw the camera to a plywood plate, maybe with a small cut out for the lens protrusion, and put a T nut or tripod plate on that for a much more secure attachment. Sounds like a neat camera and lens.
When I said "contemporary" I meant the same era as the camera, not a modern lens. I really like using vintage lenses as well. My small cameras have lenses from 1909-1982 but I like the look the old ones give best
Steven Tribe
9-Aug-2017, 01:05
Many cameras from around this time did not have the makers or retailers name on them. This doesn't mean that it is an inferior model. Some of the best known makers supplied, without identification , their cameras to retail outlets.
I, personally, think the plywood solution is a poor one. Not only is the contrast in wood finish jarring, but there will be a lot of screw holes and this will put a strain on the remaining mahogany base.
These loose internal mounting rings for the 3 tripod legs were a very common solution for this period. They are a bought-in item and will not have the camera makers identity on them. In the old days (say 4 years ago!) these were often offered on ebay. Like many other items within Photographica, they have become less frequent. The three legs are still offered (Often from the Folmer Graflex which used the same system with a top piece with 3/8" screw). A wanted add placed in the market section which you can see/use when you have been a member for a month might bring success. Many of us here are "hampsters" and buy things that we can identify and know might be useful for others.
Tim Meisburger
9-Aug-2017, 14:08
"Hampster" must be an English term. Maybe the equivalent of "hoarder" in American? Anyway, I've also got a lot of that stuff around. Mostly old brass flanges to fit obscure english lenses, but I'd trade them all for one Universal Heliar flange (the one on mine has a slightly wrong thread and looks like a cast iron plumbing flange).
Anyway, I would also go with the correct legs for the camera. Maybe you can take it to England and look around there. In the meantime, Fr. Mark's suggestion of an edged tray makes sense.
Steven Tribe
9-Aug-2017, 14:40
Hoarder is nasty word.
By Hampster/Hamster I meant a " rodent with cheek-pouches reaching almost to the shoulders". He/she collects items that will be useful in the future that are surplus to current requirements. Hamsters collect for the winter, whilst we collect for time when items are no longer available.
But, of course, it is a Danish expression - my apologies!
I like word Hamster! Another term I've heard is "magpie" for a person who compulsively collects shiny things. I'm certainly guilty of that...how many 1940's rangefinders does a photographer need already? :-)
I think I'll try the edged tray at least for the time being. Maybe I'll get someone to cut a nice piece of mahogany in a circle for me to sit on a base and a tripod bushing. When I'm over in England I'll see if I can find a brass fitting for it, and the legs. It's a beautiful camera. I'd like to see it complete. I'm certainly enjoying using it, though i've just done paper negatives so far so haven't had much call to try all the speeds. Not that there are many. I've got T, B, 2, 5, 25 and 100.
Hoarder is nasty word.
By Hampster/Hamster I meant a " rodent with cheek-pouches reaching almost to the shoulders". He/she collects items that will be useful in the future that are surplus to current requirements. Hamsters collect for the winter, whilst we collect for time when items are no longer available.
But, of course, it is a Danish expression - my apologies!
It's also a dutch expression...hamsteren..:)
Best,
Cor
Steven Tribe
10-Aug-2017, 02:42
Here is a link to a camera, also with a Unicum shutter, I think. Shows the construction/mounting of the base tripod ring very well.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/William-Butcher-Sons-Coronet-Mahogany-Plate-Camera-with-Brass-Lens-/272798468736?hash=item3f840e4a80:g:j1EAAOSw8VJZi2MB
Very helpful, thanks.
wow. Looking at the price...I think I got a deal.
I'm taking my new baby out to shoot landscapes tonight! with paper, because that is what I have around. I've always been frustrated with landscapes and small cameras. They just don't seem to mesh.
of course...with no tripod I'm restricted to finding somewhere with a low wall or a picnic table, but it will do :-)
Looking at my negatives. I need a tripod. Ok i know you told me I did. :rolleyes:
Steven Tribe
11-Aug-2017, 04:35
I only posted a link to an ongoing auction because the price was not a serious one!
I thought it was rather high
Hi Kent,
I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner...instead I went haring off on tangents...but since you have four field cameras maybe you can tell me if you have seen fittings 168825like this. It's the back of my camera. The next pic is the ground glass back.168826
Have not seen fittings/corner braces like that. I suspect this was a more expensive camera.
Kent in SD
It certainly seems very nicely made.
I want to thank everyone who has answered this thread...and my others. I feel like I'm asking a lot of questions. The LF world is very new to me and very exciting. Just made a tripod easel thingy for the camera temporarily until I can source a proper one (Probably in Britain) and I am looking forward to getting my camera out taking pictures. So far, I'm amazed at the test still lifes that I've been doing with paper negatives. The quality of image is good even with that, a lot better than my little cameras. Now I'm looking at sheet film. I don't know why it took me so long to discover large format.
anyway I wanted to let you all know that I'm impressed with the friendliness and generosity with your knowledge in this forum. I'm enjoying learning more as I go through the threads.
Steven Tribe
27-Aug-2017, 01:00
The 4 brass corners holding the ground glass have a tongue pointing inwards which I have only seen on a few cameras.
One of these was american (later: not the ROC design I was thinking about) and, I think, the others were Indian/Japanese.
In preparation to placing a wanted add here in September, you can measure up the diameter of the hole and plot the mounting screw holes in the mahogany base.
B.S.Kumar
27-Aug-2017, 02:04
Hi Kent,
I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner...instead I went haring off on tangents...but since you have four field cameras maybe you can tell me if you have seen fittings 168825like this. It's the back of my camera. The next pic is the ground glass back.168826
These fittings were common with Japanese cameras until the late 1950's. The back held single- or double-sided plate or film holders. Fuji also used to make film sheaths in 4x5 and half-plate and perhaps other sizes as well. Slik used to make steel or aluminum tripod adapters that fitted into the round hole at the base of the camera.
Kumar
Jim Galli
27-Aug-2017, 22:19
My first thought was India. There were thousands of these no name cameras made there, British in style, the result of the long influence of the British there. I have a very similar 10X20 inch camera from India. Hugo Zhang had the craftsmen at Chamonix make film holders to fit it. Some 8X20 and some 9.5 X 20"
Next time perhaps buy an older American camera. Everything fits and is still in wide use. Makes it magnitudes easier. I have some old Eastman tripod legs that might work. But an adapter to fit standard tripods is probably the best advice.
Thanks.
The camera obviously had a nameplate at one time. There are holes in the back that correspond to where a plate would go, and another two holes on the bottom of the back that are filled in, which look like a plate belonged there at one time.
I'm glad it came with three double film holders, because I don't have to worry about that. But next time...and I'm sure there will be a next time :-) I'll look for something with more available parts.
Interesting...do you know when they started making these kind of fittings in both India and Japan?
Mark Sawyer
30-Aug-2017, 00:24
"Re: using vintage equipment "
Hell, I'm vintage. What am I supposed to use?
Steven Tribe
30-Aug-2017, 00:31
I think IanG knows quite a lot about the Indian camera industry - at one time, it was assocoated with Houghtons who were big at the start of the 20th century. There are previous threads here.
Often, the indian cameras are made with local exotic hardwoods, which do not have the regularity associated with mahogany. But I think yours is from Japan. As someone has already mentioned, these traditional plate sized cameras were made quite late into the last century and quality is really excellent. Designs of details on brasswork represent local styles of decoration.
Check http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?27588-Indian-camera-makers&highlight=indian
I've been having a lot of fun going through the threads, learning a lot. I like background on my cameras. I'm glad that they were such excellent quality, you can see it in my camera.
I'm very pleased with it. Finally made a wood tripod table thing that fits in the hole and the camera bottom sits on a wood lip under which is a tripod bushing in another piece of wood. A little awkward but now I can use my modern tripod.
Dan Fromm
30-Aug-2017, 17:21
"Re: using vintage equipment "
Hell, I'm vintage. What am I supposed to use?
Whatever you want. Old stuff isn't necessarily better than newer.
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