Using an ultra-compact DC as light meter?

[Yu Lu]

Hi all,

I am new and still exploring the LF photography world from books and online resources. While considering my first 4x5 camera, I am also thinking about the light meter. I heard some people insisted that it is best to use a spot meter for field use, while others were saying that they actually use 35mm SLR's as their light meters in the field. I see the attractive point of the latter choice, since one can use 35mm SLR to take pics in the meantime.

My question is, have anyone tried to use an ultracompact DC as a light meter as well as a suitable device to record environment settings for the 4x5 or larger shots? I understand that most DCs, especially compact ones, do not include spot metering functions. There is at least one, however, as I found Canon SD300 Digital ELPH is said to have "spot metering" in its specifications list. Maybe I am wrong, but it is so attractive to have a pokectable DC to act as both roles of a light meter and a recording device. Thanks a lot for your responses!

BTW, as to my 4x5 camera choice, since I'm on a budget and the good-conditioned super graphics are around $400-500 range these days, I'd probably get a old-heavy monorail for around $100 to get started. :)

[Jim Rice]

How would one get actual exposure numbers out of the thing? OTOH I would think that being able to see a represetation of the photo would help in setting values. Let us know how it goes.

[Ed Richards]

The canon S60/70 has a histogram and a manual setting, but the display is hard to read in the sun. Of course you could read it under the dark cloth.:-)

[Craig Wactor]

I have used my canon g3 as a light meter many times. Although it is not a compact camera, the idea is the same. The camera would have to have a histogram, as Ed mentioned, and a manual mode, or at least a display of the exposure settings. I find it is a convienient way to check exposure and composition. A new alternative to polaroid. It does not substitute for a spot meter in my mind for zone system work, but it does get the job done, and for someone breaking in to large format, would do well.

There is an issue with film latitude and digital latitude not being exactly the same, but not a big difference.

It is also great to have for recording shots not "worth" a piece of 4x5 film, or deciding if indeed it is (seeing the shot in 2D)

[Stew]

Yu Lu,

Cinematographers working on multi-million dollar productions are using Nikon D-70 cameras and a Kodak cine programme called Look Manager to ensure that what they film on the set is what comes out in dailies and post-production.

The reality is that one can use digital cameras to control the look of the final product in ways that most still photographers have not yet grasped.

Regarding your specific questions:

As far as I am concerned, any light meter will work provided that you have some experience with the meter and understand how to compensate for its indiosyncracies. Based on personal experience in the last two weeks, I have found that the light meters in a Mamiya 7 and a Nikon D70 both work just fine, although both have their own learning curves. Either of the meters in these cameras would give perfectly good results for metering for large format photographs.

The more difficult question is whether you can use something like a D70 to test composition for a large format photograph. My personal experience with a 4x5 camera is that it makes sense to use a Polaroid back for tests. That way, three things are the same: the size of the image (i.e., 4"x5"), the dimensions (i.e. aspect ratio) of the image and the angle of the film in relation to the subject (i.e., the polaroid is on exactly the same plane as the film will be). To my mind, this is important when one is photographing subjects at close range. The fact of the matter is that the lens will see things, such as weird reflections, that you will miss looking through the ground glass, and these are best picked up by a Polaroid. The argument in favour of Polaroids is much less compelling when one is photographing subjects at a distance, such as landscapes.

That said, I have spent some time in the last week using a D70 with a programme called Nikon Capture (which includes a very interesting programme called Nikon Capture Control that allows one to use a PC to control a camera), and I am very interested in exploring the possiblity that the D70 and the Nikon programme can simplify tests for 4x5 and reduce expenditures for Polaroids.

[Brian Ellis]

I don't know of anyone knowledgeable who would say it's "best" to use a spot meter in the field. If you plan to use the zone system a spot meter is pretty much a necessity. Otherwise there are several alternatives that will produce excellent results , which you use is just a matter of what type works for you and what you feel comfortable using.

I have a digital camera but I don't know enough about the technology to know how closely the various "film speed" settings on it correspond to real film so that its exposure readings could be moved to film. Maybe it would work fine, it's certainly worth a try.

[Gene Crumpler]

Just as an experiment, I recently compared my spot meter with my recently aquired Kodak DS 6490. I zoomed to 10x and set the exposure metering area to spot. I compared readings with both and they are dead on. I used the manual mode to get precise f-stop, shutter speed and ISO. Readings were made in Sunlight, deep shade and indoors in low light.

The digital kodak is about the same size as the spot meter, but the digital is a lot more useful:>) I plan to use it with my MF cameras. Don't know if it will work for serious Zone System work.

[John Berry ( Roadkill )]

When shooting landscapes I just use the view camera as a meter. I also carry a 508 with me.

[Yu Lu]

Thanks for all the answers! You guys are just great!

I personally is quite interested in exploring the ZS. However, some DCs do provide a "spot metering" function although I don't know about the percentage covered by the "spot" meter inside the camera. If that percentage number is known and if it is close to those traditional FSLRs' spot metering coverage (say 3% of the viewfield), then the DC spot meter should be useful to ZS as well. Plus, it is as small as a spot meter. :) Let's see whether I can find one.

[Hening Bettermann]

Hi

I, too, feel attracted by the idea of getting a light-weight light meter, + a digital camera "for free". Browsing compact digital cameras on Adorama and looking for light weight, a choice of manual operating mode, and a spot meter, I, too, ended up with the Canon Powershot SD200 or 300 as my favorites.

Unfortunately, these exact models are not beeing sold in Norway. Never the less, today I went to a local photo shop here in Oslo, trying to find out what the metering and the display of values is like in cameras of this type. The model I was shown was called a Canon Powershot S2iS (Not found on Adorama). - As far as I can judge from this demonstration, I see the following problems:

1- The spot meter area is not shown. It is inside a central frame, but not identical to it. So you don't see exactly which area you are measuring. -- Is this the same on the SD 200 and 300??

2- The camera does not display Exposure Values, but time/f-stop combinations.You can choose time or f-stop preference. Since you can not adjust shutter times on your view camera, you will probably choose time preference and have the f-stops measured. Fractional values of these are not displayed in thirds, but in decimals. So, in terms of Exposure Values, what is f/5.9? Is it closer to 5.6 or to 5.6_1/3?

3- The smallest aperture on cameras of this type is f/8.

Problems 2 and 3 could be overcome by making a dial wheel (like this one:
www.largeformatphotography.info/misc/zswheel.pdf (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/misc/zswheel.pdf ), or this:
www.largeformatphotography.info/articles/ZoneDial.pdf (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/articles/ZoneDial.pdf)
with additional f-stops, and the thirds and halves spelled out as decimals. However, this would mean one more device to fiddle with, in addition to light meter, loupe, caliper, Scheimpflug/DOF calculator and angle meter.

4- Weight budget.
The weight for the SD300 is on the Adorama site given as "130g (camera body only)". I read this as "without batteries and memory card, but incl. the lens".
The battery for the S2iS weighed 40 grams. -- Does the battery for the SD300 weigh the same??
Unfortunately, I forgot to weigh the memory card, but it did not look like it could weigh much, say 20 grams.
Add to this a stipulated weight for the dial wheel, say 15 gr - that is the weight of the Rodenstock Scheimpflug calculator wheel.
So that would give a total of about 205 gr. (190 gr for the SD 200) For comparison: Asahi Pentax Digital Spotmeter 250 gr incl. battery, weighed; Metered Light Pocket Spot 4.5 oz (=128 gr) incl. battery, listed.

I tend to go for a Pocket Spot (if I can get one...), but before I make my final choice, I would appreciate your description of the light metering area and the weight of the batteries.

Kind regards - Hening.