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Chester McCheeserton
25-Jun-2017, 14:20
Is it considered a bad idea to store 8x10 B&W negatives and their corresponding contact print touching each other in the same sleeve?
contact prints are fiber, and washed properly.


I know it's not as safe/proper as giving each material it's own enclosure, but trying to organize a huge backlog and wondering if anyone has experienced problems with doing this or could point me to a site that discusses it - couldn't seem to find one.

thank you

Vaughn
25-Jun-2017, 15:45
A lot depends of the type of sleeve, I suppose. One consideration; Any oils and dirt from hands getting on the contact print when looking at it will be in contact with the negative.

I do not think you'll find much written about it because it generally is not an accepted practice. I will have multiple negatives in a sleeve, but they are separated by a thin sheet of quality paper...and there is no sliding of negatives to get them in and out of the sleeve.

Willie
25-Jun-2017, 16:19
Don't do it. Any moisture that might concentrate and you have them sticking together.

Keep them in separate storage boxes or containers. Interleaving folders and inert negative sleeves will help a lot. Store them as individual negatives in each sleeve, not multiples. Again - moisture may be a problem if you have more than one per sleeve. In addition any grit or dust between negatives can scratch both it touches.

One worry is stacking them with heavier weight bearing down on negatives near the bottom of the pile. Good acid free boxes or containers will help as you store them.

Greg
25-Jun-2017, 16:25
For many years have stored my 8x10" negatives between 8.5"x11" sheets of archival paper. The stacks are stored in gray archival 1.5"x8.5"x11" archival boxes that I purchased from Light Impressions probably back in the early 1980s. Boxes stored on shelf in my darkroom which I keep at a constant temperature of 65-70 degrees with 50% humidity. After using the darkroom, the humidity might go up to 69 percent but the dehumidifier lowers it to 50% within a few hours so I don't think it effects the storage boxes at all. I have experienced 0% degradation to any of the film negatives.

Also over the years have stored negatives in Archival quality Polyester sleeves in 3 ing binders. But lately when I have retrieved some of them, I have noticed that some of the negatives have "stuck" to the Polyester sleeves. I assume this is because of residual moisture absorbed by the negative when I put them into the sleeves. Have switched to interleaving archival paper which seems to absorb any residual moisture in the negatives after drying. I postulate that when the negatives that I thought had "dried", there was still some residual moisture in the emulsion which was to be absorbed by the interleaved sheets of paper by not by the Archival quality Polyester sleeves.

Michael Kadillak
25-Jun-2017, 17:22
Top quality archival paper "folders" are unquestionably the best place to place individual negatives and these folders should be placed in top quality archival storage boxes.

During the learning curve when each negatives fall into the category of not ready to toss them into the circular file for technical or artistic reasons and not making A grade at first pass, I see no reason that these negatives cannot be economically stored collectively in a single folder for further review. Taking extensive notes and learning what went right or wrong in the process is a critical step in advancement so I use a lot of sticky notes that I adhere inside the paper folder. One other piece of advice with LF photography. Never EVER change more than one variable in your process from stem to stern because all you are doing is pushing the random number generator as it relates to making progress.

Vaughn
25-Jun-2017, 21:38
Top quality archival paper "folders" are unquestionably the best place to place individual negatives and these folders should be placed in top quality archival storage boxes...

This has been my practice for years. I get these: http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/section_5/section5_05.htm

At a dollar a pop, they are not cheap -- but it has been a good system for me.

Michael Kadillak
26-Jun-2017, 12:10
This has been my practice for years. I get these: http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/section_5/section5_05.htm

At a dollar a pop, they are not cheap -- but it has been a good system for me.

I have been able to find good quality archival paper in larger sizes that I make the effort to pull out the Rotatrim and cut and fold myself to reduce costs.

Chuck Pere
26-Jun-2017, 15:00
Vaughn, Do you use buffered or non-buffered material for B&W negatives? I was thinking that buffered was better but I'm not sure.

Michael Kadillak
26-Jun-2017, 16:42
I will throw out a suggestion.

Lets aggregate an order for some 8x10 folders and get the quantity discount. I would go in for two to three hundred. Any interest? I would be happy to be a part of the search for acquisition "options".

Fred L
26-Jun-2017, 16:53
This has been my practice for years. I get these: http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/section_5/section5_05.htm

At a dollar a pop, they are not cheap -- but it has been a good system for me.

Vaughn and anyone else interested, Carr McLean is my go to shop for conservation and archival supplies (they have the best white, cotton gloves I've ever used). For those in the U.S., their price is beyond a very good deal, esp with the exchange what it currently is.

https://www.carrmclean.ca/CategoryGroupBrowser.aspx?CategoryID=159&GroupNo=935

agregov
26-Jun-2017, 23:04
Michael Smith is another option for folders and archival boxes. http://lodima.org/archival-materials/archival-boxes/

Vaughn
26-Jun-2017, 23:33
Thanks! I'll stay with the 4-fold ones from Conservation Resources for my 8x10 and small sheet sizes needs. But the simpler ones for 11x14 negatives from Smith might be the way I go!

Vaughn
26-Jun-2017, 23:44
Vaughn, Do you use buffered or non-buffered material for B&W negatives? I was thinking that buffered was better but I'm not sure.
Generally unbuffered...but I live in a relatively clean-air environment. If one's air is less clean (most cities), then a buffered paper would be much better. Also unbuffered is fine with just about everything, where buffers could cause problems with some color material.

Michael Kadillak
27-Jun-2017, 15:50
I went back to my notes on what I did last time and here are the numbers. Archivalmuseumsupplies.com

SplitFile sheets of 17x22" of paper specifically designed for B&W film is $52 per 100 sheet pack. Cut a small piece off an edge, do your own folding and you can get it done for a bit more than $0.25 per 8 1/2" x 10 1/2" folder. I can use the same size for 8x20 folders.

Save your money for FILM.

Cheers!

Chester McCheeserton
28-Jun-2017, 12:41
Thanks Everyone. With all due respect and appreciation for the tips I think the 4 fold one are totally overkill for my purposes!

I have about 400 negs from 12 years ago documenting urban landscape scenes in LA. The 10-20 "good ones" or ones I enlarged in the darkoom and/or drum scanned I will keep in their own sleeve, but for all the rest I'm aiming to cut up and destroy the duplicates, organize the negative with it's corresponding contact print, and shrink not expand my storage footprint!

They are all currently in clear Polypro sleeves made by Calumet in the three ring binders with sealed edges. What about placing a thin sheet of buffered acid free paper between the neg and print? Or can anyone share a specific experience where the negs have been damaged by storing this way? The vast majority will likely never be printed again!

axs810
28-Jun-2017, 23:11
Personally given the nature of fiber paper I wouldn't put the two in the same sleeve for archiving purposes. Unless the environment is well controlled in regards to humidity.

There are a lot of nice options out there but I'd recommend print file paper envelopes like these:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599679-REG/Print_File_PFNP810_NP810_Print_and_Negative.html

Store the negative in the paper envelope and the print together in this and write the document name on the side area:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/43020-REG/Print_File_PF8102P25_Archival_Storage_Page_for.html


I prefer paper envelopes for negatives over Polypro sleeves because I constantly try to minimize dust. From my own experiences I've found the paper envelopes work best for me in terms of avoiding dust getting attracted onto the sleeve and in my opinion help avoid any possible scratches when pulling the negative out for scanning or printing. It's real nit-picky though and nothing scientific...just things I've learned along the way while working for our mutual friend.


IMO, I still wouldn't bundle the neg/print together for archiving purposes because of how fiber paper acts when the humidity changes. If you do though make sure the film emulsion is facing away from the print. I wouldn't want the fiber paper to slightly curl and possibly scratch the emulsion side. But if you were to bundle up on the storage then I would use the paper envelope and the print file 8x10 p2 sleeves together. Even if you don't plan on using the negatives again I wouldn't cheap out on this part just because you never know if you might change your mind...plus shooting 8x10 is expensive.


Disclaimer: I've never stored anything like this before so you might need to find an 8.5x11 sleeve (for the second linked item) instead of using 8x10 sizes for both.

Chuck Pere
29-Jun-2017, 15:51
Generally unbuffered...but I live in a relatively clean-air environment. If one's air is less clean (most cities), then a buffered paper would be much better. Also unbuffered is fine with just about everything, where buffers could cause problems with some color material.

Thanks for the information.