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Toulcaz31
19-Jun-2017, 08:47
I believe I haven't seen yet anyone sharing the info about the New55 new campaign:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/892575418/new55-pn-quality-improvements?ref=project_share

Also for those who want to know more about New55, I strongly recommend listening to these two podcasts:

- Pdexposures Podcast Episode 31 - April 2014 the New55 Project
http://www.pdexposures.com/pdexposures-podcast-episode-31-the-new55-project/

- Sam Hiser and the Artful Innovation of New55 Film (217) - March 2017
https://artfulcamera.com/blog/sam-hiser-and-the-artful-innovation-of-new55-film-217

Andrew O'Neill
20-Jun-2017, 11:47
I was quite happy with both boxes I received from original kickstarter campaign. One box was from an early batch, the second from a later batch. Both gave me excellent, even negatives. The prints, on the other hand... I wish them well!

Degroto
20-Jun-2017, 13:01
Thanks for sharing this. This new Kickstarter has as aim to improve the prints so they are better then they are now. Remember that New55 are the only manufacturers of 4x5 instant film. With this Kickstarter project they can stay that. So please donate or share! As you can read on the page a new challenge has arisen which means a succesfull Kickstarter capmaign is even more urgent!

EdSawyer
21-Jun-2017, 06:52
If they don't have access to pods any more from 20x24 studio (Why? no reasons given... seems like manufactured trauma, frankly) their quality overall is only going to go down, not up. And it was already pretty far down on the scale of an acceptable, professional product. Rolling the dice on expired real type 55 is a better and cheaper gamble for users who want consistent results.

Really they need a deep-pocketed investor who is willing to take it to the next level and get out of the garage with that product concept. Which is probably not very likely to happen, sadly.

Toulcaz31
21-Jun-2017, 12:31
Ed,

I believe New55 always had the plan to have their own pod machine at some stage in order to be able to scale up production and ensure better control of their product.
Even before the news about 20x24 studio, the new campaign mentioned the following "The goal is to make New55 PN film work better. We need to get control of the pod and the chemicals used in the development in order to reduce the urgency to use fixer immediately after peeling." So actually the points you mentioned about the first batch (and it would be fair to mention how the product improved since) might be partly (at least) related to the pod they were using.

I see people complaining about not having a mature product since the first batch while not noticing that these gentlemen are starting from scratch, without getting a factory or assets from the former product company. I think we all agree we would love to see a sustainable and good Type 55 film. When some guys, including one with an impressive IP legacy, are taking over that challenge and dedicate most of their time and their money to achieve that goal (with a very transparent and open source approach by the way), the minimum we could do is to encourage them and remind them there is definitely a market for that better product they are aiming for. That's how I see personally that campaign and why I decided to back them.

EdSawyer
22-Jun-2017, 06:41
I'll be happy to buy the product, when it gets to an acceptable stage. Hopefully it does actually get there someday.

Toulcaz31
22-Jun-2017, 08:59
Ed - fair enough. I just hope they can reach that day if they do not receive enough support.

Just some clarification on the open source point I mentioned: after some further discussions, it might be worth precising that most of their open source effort relates to the research on past patents and discoveries about DTR. However New55 still develop their own IP along the project in order to attract investor interest.

Degroto
22-Jun-2017, 12:13
I get failry consistent result with New55. It is not perfect that is true but it is really eassy complaining that they are not doing thier job right if you don't realise what an enormous task it is to get everything right. Even TIP is still struggling to get things right and they have considarable more money to spend then New55. So that is why it is important to back them even if your not happy with the product right now (which I understand of course). And if you don't want to invest now that is fine but share the Kickstarter project with your fellow large format photgraphers. They might want to support them.

BobCrowley
26-Jun-2017, 05:09
If they don't have access to pods any more from 20x24 studio (Why? no reasons given... seems like manufactured trauma, frankly) their quality overall is only going to go down, not up. And it was already pretty far down on the scale of an acceptable, professional product. Rolling the dice on expired real type 55 is a better and cheaper gamble for users who want consistent results.

Really they need a deep-pocketed investor who is willing to take it to the next level and get out of the garage with that product concept. Which is probably not very likely to happen, sadly.

20X24 told us they were no longer supplying pods several days after we launched the Kickstarter, Ed. That was the reason given. Why would you think that is a manufactured trauma?

Toulcaz31
26-Jun-2017, 15:24
Bob,

I was a bit troubled by a recent statement from 20x24 on FB on June 24: "We are considering forming a non-profit organization to champion large format instant photography and possibly offer a gateway to a new peel apart film. Ultimately we need those that profess support for instant photography to use instant photography and that includes fans of smaller formats."

So they stopped supply right in your campaign and now announced they want to get into peel apart film...?

EdSawyer
27-Jun-2017, 08:14
Yeah, seems some drama and backstory here that we are not privy to. 20x24s materials are worn out, the reagents and film (and receiver sheet?) have aged too far to be usable anymore, I think they are shutting down at the end of this year. They have the pod machine, which seems like it would go to waste otherwise, if they are shutting down the 20x24 stuff. Are they now a competitor to New55 and thus not selling pod making service anymore? who knows. As it stands they will probably have to trash a bunch of 20x24 film/paper if it doesn't get used up in time (which it looked like it wasn't going to be), of course the really high prices per exposure aren't helping their cause in that regard...

schneidk
27-Jun-2017, 13:12
That was the reason given.
Can you clarify what exactly is the reason 20/24 will no longer supply new 55 with pods?

Degroto
28-Jun-2017, 02:52
Does it matter? No. What matters is is that New55 has to find another way to get pods for New55PN. And that takes money. To become independent on such a critical part is actually better than to have a partner that can decide not to deliver anymore. New55 has overcome such obstacles before and it can do again but they need your help for that to happen :-)

BobCrowley
28-Jun-2017, 08:39
Yeah, seems some drama and backstory here that we are not privy to. 20x24s materials are worn out, the reagents and film (and receiver sheet?) have aged too far to be usable anymore, I think they are shutting down at the end of this year. They have the pod machine, which seems like it would go to waste otherwise, if they are shutting down the 20x24 stuff. Are they now a competitor to New55 and thus not selling pod making service anymore? who knows. As it stands they will probably have to trash a bunch of 20x24 film/paper if it doesn't get used up in time (which it looked like it wasn't going to be), of course the really high prices per exposure aren't helping their cause in that regard...

I'm not privy to it either. We have enough pods to make 1000 boxes of New55PN on hand, which is not enough to fulfill a kickstarter calling for 2000 boxes. Since I cannot assure backers of delivery now, I might as well stop that and build and sell what we do have. We have no trouble selling New55 PN which is a strong niche product.

On another note, our lab did a lot of work including experiments and visits to factories to establish New55 COLOR as a new peelapart material that did not use any legacy materials. We got it to work and showed the results. It was quite costly since the kickstarter, held around the US election, did not make its fundraising goal. Still, we continued a number of experiments that include both large, medium and small format color materials that I am sure would be of interest and attractive to many people. Meanwhile, it was quite obvious to us that the black and white New55 PN, which was already improving, only needed three main changes (this is before pods became one of them) to get to a very good and consistent state. The mask has a high tooling cost to make and apply. The stop requires a tool and fixtures, and considerable engineering and the reagent we think can be fairly easily toned down so it will terminate within the two or three minute processing time, obviating the need to shield the negative. Even T55 would solarize if peeled in bright light and it is a balance of developer and solvent that brings the right amount of development of the negative and transfer to the receiver sheet, which we alone developed and make.

If we got N55 PN to a better place, we theorized, we could pick up the color project again or keep it going in the background. Now you are "privy" to all the thoughts I have, Ed. Our group of volunteers remains interested in large format instant films and we are quite pleased at the results of our efforts.

adelorenzo
28-Jun-2017, 15:41
Bob,

Just want to say thanks to you, Sam and everyone else involved here. It's obviously been a ton of hard work and passion to get to this point and I'm hopeful that things will continue to move in the right direction.

I backed the first time and am now a backer of the second campaign. I've also shot a few boxes of the Atomic-X sheet film which I really like.

Regards,
Anthony

EdSawyer
29-Jun-2017, 05:58
hi Bob -

Thanks for sharing the details, and keep up the good work! Hopefully all the plans will come to fruition, esp. the solution to not having a pod supplier.

-Ed

Toulcaz31
3-Jul-2017, 12:28
Some clarifications from 20x24 on Facebook:

Toulcaz31: "We are considering forming a non-profit organization to champion large format instant photography and possibly offer a gateway to a new peel apart film." Are you basically announcing you will from now on compete with New55?

20x24 Studio: We are not competing with New55.

Toulcaz31: Thanks. Truly appreciated to get clarifications. Would you be able to comment why you had to stop providing the pods to them?

20x24 Studio: They made it too difficult for us to take the time and resources away from our own production needs. We have supported New55 in many, many ways since the beginning. There are as always, two sides to every story.

Toulcaz31: Ok thanks for the answer. New55 did not make any comment except mentioning that you will stop supplying. (last sentence was to reply to their "two sides to every story")

Andrew O'Neill
3-Jul-2017, 18:59
I thought New55 had their own pod machine...

Degroto
4-Jul-2017, 01:50
Nope they do not.

jp
4-Jul-2017, 06:54
They deserve a bit of support for their machinery. It really resonates with me as a tinkerer.

callmebrick
5-Jul-2017, 09:55
Looks like they cancelled the Kickstarter.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/892575418/new55-pn-quality-improvements/posts/1929662

Fred L
5-Jul-2017, 10:42
This is pretty dire news and I fear once all stock of New55 film is gone, our Polaroid holders will be parked on shelves. I hope there's a way New55 and 20x24 can work towards a common goal.

Toulcaz31
5-Jul-2017, 19:48
After SP-2810, now this one, tough times for Large Format KS projects. And really bad timing for the pod supply situation...

stawastawa
5-Jul-2017, 22:48
I wonder if there would be a way to partner with universities...
- to get a commitment to purchase a large stock of the film
- or through engineering or business partnerships... (Senior projects at the University of Colorado were often about finding solutions like 'the thing' or making pods)

Degroto
6-Jul-2017, 01:35
If you have any ideas send them to New55. They read here as well but any encouragement and involvement of the large format community is appreciated. And maybe there are ways to raise money not thought of before so every input could be really important.