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John Kasaian
12-Jun-2017, 22:58
I find it interesting the importance people place in photographs, especially the difference in values between older and younger people and their photographs.
The older, it seems, places a greater value in a physical photograph they can hold in their hands while the younger seem to enjoy a much greater number of images which are, well fleeting. Rapidly scrolled through via an electronic device.

I wonder what this says about the future of photography? No so much the processes, but rather the value that photography brings to the party.)

My daughter just returned from Europe, and I found myself missing the traditional, chronologically organized slide show which were pretty common a few decades ago---it was sort of like accompanying the traveler on his or her adventure. These were a social occasion and there was an effort in making these presentations fun and educational---not boring like television (although Im sure some slide presentations were deadly boring---but that was a rarity at least in my experience.) The best slides would be printed and graced the work cubicles of my office mates, serving as a mini-mental holiday (Egypt, 1970 as one fellow pointed out with a wave of his hand, like a conjuring magician.)
Now it is much different. One is handed a device of some sort and the pretty pictures are viewed without a chronological narrative although I'm sure the presentation could be edited chronologically, but none of the ones I've seen are.
In fact, images that appear in a little box on the computer screen seem (are?) Random.

Is this anything you've noticed? What are your thoughts on the matter?

Willie
12-Jun-2017, 23:19
Still see many who are faced with short preparation time evacuation gather photo albums and the like to take with them. Fires, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Disasters with little warning show what people value and can take with them.

Don't know if younger people value the photo albums and pictures the same as the older generations.

Vaughn
12-Jun-2017, 23:21
Some people have a book printed of their trip. Pretty cool. Sort of the modern photo album.

Randy
13-Jun-2017, 03:59
I think even older folks are joining the younger ones in that they don't value printed photographs as much - especially those older folks who spend a lot of time on social media. I am close to 60 and spend "0" time on Facebook. My younger brother and sister, both in their mid 50's, spend a lot of their spare time on FB and have hardly any interest in our old family photographs from our childhood. I guess that's why I have all of them.

- but -

I am perhaps a bit of an odd one in that, I even collect old photographs of people I have no relation to. If I am at an antique store or flee market, it is very hard for me to pass on an old photo album of she-box of family photographs. I then try to track down the decedents to see if they are interested in getting the pictures back. I just hate the thought of old family photographs being thrown in the trash.

Ken Lee
13-Jun-2017, 04:19
A new generation may come along and embrace other values. It happens now and then :rolleyes:

LabRat
13-Jun-2017, 05:57
Consider the MOST important factor now... That pix are in digitized form on fones/tablets etc... More people are keeping a mass of images now, but less in a printed form... And more people are photographing, but not their few rolls a year back when everyone had to use film... Things will swing different ways and new trends emerge/fade away...

I am presently moving a large collection of photo/art books, and tried to cull down the collection over the recent years, but had little interest as sellers are becoming far and few in-between and have said many less people are buying books, and it's hard for them to sell anything over $60-$80 now, even if it was a classic collector book... Books are a tough sell, but I hope they are "rediscovered"...

I sense that many are starting a "digital burnout" as the stuff they see online is the same value... Just more filler... Nothing solid, just more eye stuff on their screen...

I think that many will return to wanting/having something "real", rather than the sea of images, eye candy, and other "virtual" stuff...

There's hope...

Steve K

ghostcount
13-Jun-2017, 06:45
1862 - Lincoln was inseparable with this new fangled thing called the "Telegraph"
2017 - The 45th President is inseparable with this new fangled thing called the "Twitter"

:o

I think the core purpose of viewing photographs remains, how it is used changes.

Michael E
13-Jun-2017, 08:59
People take more photos than ever, and they carry them around with them in a tiny magic box wherever they go. Why do you think they are valued less because they are not on paper? Also, the images from the "grand tour" abroad can can be arranged in chronological order so much easier and more accurately when they are digital. Tagged with GPS data as well. In the good old times, prints were usually unmarked or at best "the whole bunch last weekend at our place"...

John Kasaian
13-Jun-2017, 09:51
People take more photos than ever, and they carry them around with them in a tiny magic box wherever they go. Why do you think they are valued less because they are not on paper? Also, the images from the "grand tour" abroad can can be arranged in chronological order so much easier and more accurately when they are digital. Tagged with GPS data as well. In the good old times, prints were usually unmarked or at best "the whole bunch last weekend at our place"...

Not less value, only different.

"Also, the images from the "grand tour" abroad can can be arranged in chronological order so much easier and more accurately when they are digital. Tagged with GPS data as well."

I agree, but in my own observations, they aren't!

John Kasaian
13-Jun-2017, 09:57
I should add that older people aren't void of technology. It used to be that when grand parents got together, wallets would be drawn and an accordion of plastic bearing the snaps of the lil' darings would launch into space and cascade for all to see. Now cell phones are drawn and the images are scrolled through, if they can find them (which they will... eventually.)

jim10219
13-Jun-2017, 11:28
People are too busy these days for the old social slide show. These days, we're forced to work even when we're at home on our days off. The ideas of being "on the clock" and "off the clock" are unfortunately things of the past. And you can forget about the single income family. So I wouldn't expect anyone to go to the expense or hassle of a true slide show or having a traditional picture album put together. It just costs too much time and money. Today, we use Facebook, Instagram, and other social media platforms to post our travels, and let others enjoy them at their own leisure. The basic idea remains the same, it's just been modified to reduce the expenditures of time and money. It may not be as intimate or socially engaging, but it's what we have time for in the modern world.

Every generation forms their new ideas and opinions that frighten and sadden the previous generations. Sometimes progress can be hard to adapt to, especially when we derived so much joy thinking about the past. But before anyone thinks to complain too much about it, remember, you did the same thing to the generations that preceded you, and they complained just as much about it, yet it all happened anyway. Progress is the natural order of things. Don't fight it. You won't win, and will cost you. Happiness only exists in the present. Living your life in the past will make you sad, just as living your life in the future will make you anxious. Yes I'd love to go back to a time when you could make a decent living through attitude and work ethic alone. Today, not even a bachelor's degree is enough. But time only travels in one direction, and the old ways don't work in the new world, so you either evolve or die off.

Back to the smaller picture, the printed photograph isn't going anywhere. It's actually doing a lot better now than it was 10 years ago. Look at all of the new films being introduced or reintroduced! The traditional printed photograph has been usurped in the vacation and family photos department. That's all digital now. And that makes the most sense. It's cheaper, easier to share, and can be endlessly duplicated without cost. But the traditional print is enjoying a strong resurgence in the fine art world. People like art that they can't do themselves. Everyone can snap a photo of a sunset and print it on their computer these days. Very few can do it the old fashioned way, and that process is growing in appreciation because of that. Just look at the boom in alternative processes that have taken off since the digital age began! How many wet plate collodion photographers did you know in the 70's? Probably less than the number today. If anything, people value printed photographs even more now that they aren't so common.

Luis-F-S
13-Jun-2017, 11:32
The most photographed generation will be largely void of photographs in 20 years when their little "boxes" die. Yes, printed photographs can be damaged or lost in fire or flood, but so can the little boxes! Unfortunately, many count on backup to the "Cloud" let's just hope the cloud doesn't rain on their parade. L

Peter De Smidt
13-Jun-2017, 11:36
I've sat through some mighty awful slide shows. You know the ones where people show every slide from their vacation.

John Kasaian
13-Jun-2017, 11:45
I've sat through some mighty awful slide shows. You know the ones where people show every slide from their vacation.
click
"Here's one of Wonda making here famous egg salad sandwiches for our lunch on a picnic table in Yellowstone"
click
"Here is one of a bear."
:rolleyes:

John Kasaian
13-Jun-2017, 11:56
People are too busy these days for the old social slide show. These days, we're forced to work even when we're at home on our days off. The ideas of being "on the clock" and "off the clock" are unfortunately things of the past. And you can forget about the single income family. So I wouldn't expect anyone to go to the expense or hassle of a true slide show or having a traditional picture album put together. It just costs too much time and money. Today, we use Facebook, Instagram, and other social media platforms to post our travels, and let others enjoy them at their own leisure. The basic idea remains the same, it's just been modified to reduce the expenditures of time and money. It may not be as intimate or socially engaging, but it's what we have time for in the modern world.

Every generation forms their new ideas and opinions that frighten and sadden the previous generations. Sometimes progress can be hard to adapt to, especially when we derived so much joy thinking about the past. But before anyone thinks to complain too much about it, remember, you did the same thing to the generations that preceded you, and they complained just as much about it, yet it all happened anyway. Progress is the natural order of things. Don't fight it. You won't win, and will cost you. Happiness only exists in the present. Living your life in the past will make you sad, just as living your life in the future will make you anxious. Yes I'd love to go back to a time when you could make a decent living through attitude and work ethic alone. Today, not even a bachelor's degree is enough. But time only travels in one direction, and the old ways don't work in the new world, so you either evolve or die off.

Back to the smaller picture, the printed photograph isn't going anywhere. It's actually doing a lot better now than it was 10 years ago. Look at all of the new films being introduced or reintroduced! The traditional printed photograph has been usurped in the vacation and family photos department. That's all digital now. And that makes the most sense. It's cheaper, easier to share, and can be endlessly duplicated without cost. But the traditional print is enjoying a strong resurgence in the fine art world. People like art that they can't do themselves. Everyone can snap a photo of a sunset and print it on their computer these days. Very few can do it the old fashioned way, and that process is growing in appreciation because of that. Just look at the boom in alternative processes that have taken off since the digital age began! How many wet plate collodion photographers did you know in the 70's? Probably less than the number today. If anything, people value printed photographs even more now that they aren't so common.

You're right. I got to experience portions of my daughter's trip almost in real time with Viber.
Just like watching TV.
Kind of.

Personally I'd prefer the oral narrative accompanying slides because of the elevated state excitement expressed when describing a cultural "discovery"
Preferable even to being handed an album of prints and being left alone, other than having to ask "What/where/who is this?"

Ted R
13-Jun-2017, 12:26
Somebody is making prints............................there are automated Kodak print "kiosks" in all the CVS stores I know of, and they deliver everything from 4x6 to 8x10 instantly and the quality and value for money are both good.

Alan Klein
13-Jun-2017, 16:34
When I was a kid, my parents had B/W pictures taken of us kids which were then colored with rouge of some sort to give our skin some color. Early photoshop. Later on when I was a teenager, we had the slide shows. As soon as your relatives or friends heard you preparing the slide projector, they'd all feign headaches and run home, even willing to skip desert.

Now I make slide shows of my vacations as a BluRay movie, with music, credits and a menu, and show it on 4k UHDTV. I even send copies to my daughter. Of course the trick is to start playing it while they're eating desert before they can jump ship. But it still better not be longer than ten minutes or so or people get antsy.

So I've advanced with age. Meanwhile, my daughter who's always clicking with her iPhone is about 2 or 3 vacations behind sending me photos that she always promises me she'll do. In fact, she's in Italy this week with her husband but I still haven't received an email with one shot of an Italian museum or church or restaurant. Maybe her batteries went dead.

Jody_S
13-Jun-2017, 17:53
I have a relative who has 50,000+ (I think, I'm not counting) photos on Facebook. All of herself. All making pouty/duckfaces. Sometimes alone, sometimes with friends and relatives also making stupid faces. If I had to sit through a slide show of that, I might just off myself.

I've watched her at family gatherings, sitting on a sofa with her niece, both staring into her phone adjusting their duckface until it's just right, for 45 minutes. Then she'll spend another 10 minutes putting filters on the photo to make herself look like a model. I'm not on Facebook, thankfully, so I never have to see any of the finished products unless my wife finds one particularly amusing and shows me.

It's not that young people don't value photos. They just have a very different view of photography as a social media.

Eric Woodbury
13-Jun-2017, 18:08
Long ago . . . it must be . . .
I have a photograph
Preserve your memories
They’re all that’s left you

--Paul Simon, 1968

Two23
13-Jun-2017, 20:44
I've often thought that photos have little value until what was in them no longer exists. I've continued to make prints of family vacations etc., made into Shutterfly etc. books. These have been just sitting on a shelf and rarely picked up. I think they are still too current and are taken for granted. OTOH, I consider the shoe box of 120 negs from my grandmother's Brownie made in the 1920s and 30s, and my other grandparents from the 20s to be real treasures. They are photos of things I can barely recall and no longer exist.

I once worked as a therapist in nursing homes and knew a guy who had moved in there in his later years. His room had very little, but he kept large boxes of photos under his bed. He told me he had been taking photos of all the things in his life since he had been in high school and was going through them to put them into albums with captions & explanations. I wish I had done that. In the decades ahead it will be a great historical record.

There are people who buy collections of family photos on ebay. They then try to find out what they can about the family--it's a kind of challenge for them. These kinds of photos used to go for very little but now are going for some noteworthy sums. I find it sad that the original family put so little value on them. A few years ago I came across a Flickr page titled something like "The Beardsley Family." It was a husband & wife and their only son from the 1950s and 1960s. They liked to travel on fancy trains, which were still around at the time. There were a couple of hundred Kodachrome slides of them. The husband owned a small electronics shop near San Diego. The new owner and Flickr poster spent several years trying to find out more about the family and how the slides came to sold off on ebay. Eventually a branch of the family in Arizona filled in the details. It turned out to be a somewhat melancholy tale. The only son married in his early thirties, only be be divorced a few weeks later. It was surmised he may have been a homosexual at a time that was not openly discussed. He died of an infection of some sort in his early 40s. The father died of a heart attack in his 50s, leaving the wife alone in the house for several decades. When she grew unable to care for herself sometime around 2005 she was moved into a nursing home and the household goods were sold off. She died a few years later. No one in the extended family wanted the slides, so several decades of interesting history was lost to them.


Kent in SD


166095

John Kasaian
13-Jun-2017, 21:21
If you know anyone suffering Alzheimer's.
What seems to be the best therapy is sitting along side them while going through family photo albums, letting him identify the who's and where's.

jnanian
14-Jun-2017, 05:25
hi john
i think looking at photographs presented as you described
can be kind of fun. it makes me think of when i was in high school
and read Catch 22 both for the jumble of it all and because
sometimes it becomes a yosarian experience and a yosarian-experience (https://yossarian.co)

Salmo22
14-Jun-2017, 05:39
My father was a long-time professional photographer and was always carrying a camera. When he passed away last August, I inherited his negatives, slides, and some 16mm movies. Nearly 50,000 negatives alone! They are a treasure to me, both personally and as a historic record. Besides the vast collection of family related negatives, I also have his commercial negatives from 40 years of professional work and 18 years as a photographer in the Air Force. I have countless aerials (4x5 & 6x6) of the metro Phoenix area and other parts of Arizona that have changed forever. To me these negatives/slides serve as a priceless window into my past and the history of this region. As yes, I can remember the many family gatherings where Dad would narrate his latest exploits with 6x6 slides using his Hasselblad and/or Rollei projectors :rolleyes:

John Kasaian
15-Jun-2017, 21:53
hi john
i think looking at photographs presented as you described
can be kind of fun. it makes me think of when i was in high school
and read Catch 22 both for the jumble of it all and because
sometimes it becomes a yosarian experience and a yosarian-experience (https://yossarian.co)
Interesting! I had the pleasure of meeting Joseph Heller at CSUF back in '79 or '80 ---a real gentleman. I hope he gets a cut of the yosarian action ; )

John Kasaian
16-Jun-2017, 07:46
A morbid departure from the subject---I was speaking with an undertaker the other day and he mentioned many 80+ year old clients being very adamant about putting family photographs inside the coffins of deceased family members.
Why is that?

I read of one precedent back during the gold rush when pictures were included in coffins as a means of identification (?) but those images were on metal, which would I expect remain corrupted longer than paper.:cool:

I've seen photographic images on tiles inset on tombstones.:cool:

But photos inside a coffin?:confused:
Do they include a flashlight as well?:rolleyes:

r_a_feldman
16-Jun-2017, 08:34
Sally Mann, in her memoir Hold Still, makes interesting observations that photographs falsify and replace memories. In general terms, she feels that the more photographs she has of someone, the less she really remembers the person – she remembers the photographs and what they show, but not really the person.

Any thoughts on this?

John Kasaian
16-Jun-2017, 10:18
Sally Mann, in her memoir Hold Still, makes interesting observations that photographs falsify and replace memories. In general terms, she feels that the more photographs she has of someone, the less she really remembers the person – she remembers the photographs and what they show, but not really the person.

Any thoughts on this?
I think there is a difference between formal portraits and snapshots, the formal generally trying to give an impression of some desired quality while snaps capture more of the "moment" without any pretension being contemplated.

Of course this doesn't apply to selfies

Re: Sally Mann, in order to "falsify and replace memories" one must have the memories to falsify and replace to begin with.

Alan Klein
16-Jun-2017, 20:08
Sally Mann, in her memoir Hold Still, makes interesting observations that photographs falsify and replace memories. In general terms, she feels that the more photographs she has of someone, the less she really remembers the person – she remembers the photographs and what they show, but not really the person.

Any thoughts on this?

When you look at a photo of someone you love, you fall in love all over again.

mihag
17-Jun-2017, 00:18
When you look at a photo of someone you love, you fall in love all over again.

So true!

Alan Gales
17-Jun-2017, 11:49
I've sat through some mighty awful slide shows. You know the ones where people show every slide from their vacation.

Yeah, the notorious "Here is a picture of my thumb. I accidentally got it in front of the lens when taking the picture". ;)

Alan Gales
17-Jun-2017, 11:54
A morbid departure from the subject---I was speaking with an undertaker the other day and he mentioned many 80+ year old clients being very adamant about putting family photographs inside the coffins of deceased family members.
Why is that?

I read of one precedent back during the gold rush when pictures were included in coffins as a means of identification (?) but those images were on metal, which would I expect remain corrupted longer than paper.:cool:

I've seen photographic images on tiles inset on tombstones.:cool:

But photos inside a coffin?:confused:
Do they include a flashlight as well?:rolleyes:

A lot of bibles go into coffins.