DeVere 504 Dichromat Filter set up - help needed please

[almostpilot]

Hello guys
I have recently acquired a DeVere 504 (arrived in bits and badly mishandled by the bloody shipping company DPD never again!) I have the manual but it does not cover the problems I have.
I have 2 questions.
1.
I have put it together and it "works". By which I mean lights come on (after being replaced) and timer works. But I noticed no light was coming through the lens!
Upon looking into the compartment which houses the two lights I saw there was a lever on the left which operates a metal "slide" which blocks the light going through from the lamps to the "diffusion box". I can slide it manually and let the light through but the question is why is this slide there and how do I keep it open? I can always jam it open with a bolt or something so this is a minor problem, i think. But I am curious.

2. See image attached of compartment with lamps removed. The slides ("C") with the filters ("D") were all over the place, prob. moved in transit. I have tried to put them beck in place so that the sickle shaped metal actuator (A) connected with the filter knob on the outside works on roller (B) and lets the filter "slide in" moving from right to left.

The problem is that as I turn the knobs the slide (any of the 3 that I try) jump out at point "B", the roller. The sickle shaped metal thing is stable, it's the whole slide that moves and detaches the roller A from the sickle metal controller.

I noticed that the slides are sitting on rollers bottom and top (like roller "E") but they are not really firmly within the rollers, specially at the top they are barely touching them. I cannot figure a way of adjusting the top rollers though.
Can someone tell me if the set up in the image is correct and give me some advice?

As I see it I have two options:
a) Use lever "F" which pushes all three filters out of the way and lets white light through. Thus turning the enlarger into a "normal" enlarger to be used with graded papers
b) find a way to stabilise the filters moving, so that I can use multigrade papers with it. And I have a lot of MG papers.
please someone help!

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah191/almostpilot66/504-filters_zps1xt0hjvb.jpg

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah191/almostpilot66/LEVER-OF-BLIND_zpsepqz5ijp.jpg

[interneg]

I'd contact Odyssey Sales who are the successors to DeVere - amazingly helpful people.

Find them at: http://www.deveresecondhanddarkroom.com/contact-us

They should be able to tell you what's correct or not & should have suitable spares if needed.

[almostpilot]

I have. No replies so far. Can any DeVere 504 owner help me please?

[LabRat]

I haven't wrenched on one of these, but from the pix, the first thing that comes to mind is this was a well used unit, hot/cold many times, seems filthy in there, and maybe paint peeling/wear on sliding surfaces... These will cause binding in colorheads, and will really need a thorough cleaning, polishing/lubing sliding surfaces, and making sure shafts are aligned, cleaned, not binding, and lubed before looking for possible problems...

Once done, you can check the unit hot & cold to first see if if all linkages are doing their thing, and setting/resetting properly...

Good luck!!!

Steve K

[interneg]

I have. No replies so far. Can any DeVere 504 owner help me please?

You probably won't get a response till next week - bank holiday weekend.

Can't really help beyond what Steve has said - while I have used the VC dichro head (not that dissimilar to the more recent colour heads internally) the better part of a decade ago, my own recent experience with 504's is with the MG500 head & the MK3 dichromat (control dials, not knobs, & no ND filter) - I take it yours is the MK5 dichro - ie the 2 lamp model? I recall there was/ is the option of a chassis mounted shutter on some of the DeVere dichro heads & it sounds a lot like that slide may well be a component intended to enable that - DPD's mishandling is probably to blame for knocking it shut. Have you tried operating the filters with the bulb housing in place? It may play an important role in holding them in correct alignment.

[Fred L]

I have the MkIV head which is a single lamp head so ymmv.

The filter panels shouldn't be blocking the light path at all if it works the same as the Mkiv. As you've found, the lever slides the filter set in and out of the light path. You get either filtered or unfiltered light. Regardless, you should have light coming through the mixing box and lens that shouldn't be blocked. Although as Interneg noted, it might be part of a shutter system ?

Something is preventing the arm and lever from moving the entire filter assembly completely it might appear. As well and I'm not sure about this, but the knob on the outside left side of the head, *should* be what is used to move the filters in and out of the way. So check to see if that is working properly. On mine, there's a knob on the front panel.

As for why they're not engaging the top guides, I'd probably try and reseat them and see if they sit in the grooves.

Also, I'd be contacting Kevin at Khbphotografix.com to see if he can help diagnose the problem.

165495

[almostpilot]

Hello Fred
The three filter panels do not block the light. There is another slide which blocks it. Yes it could be part of some kind of shutter system.
The arm lever "F" in my picture does work and does slide all three filter panels to the right letting light through, as I said in my initial post. This is working fine.
What i am havin' trouble with is dialling in the amount of filtration I want, because the three filter panels "jump" out of position and then the filter knobs on the outside of the head turn without doing anything. that is the issue.
Good idea about writing to Kevin. I am a customer so hopefully he will answer me.
cheers
alex

[almostpilot]

For Fred again
Thanks for your image. Your filters are sitting straight and nice, mine are not. Can you tell me this please: is each of the filter slides i see in your image really SITTING in its groove on the top roller (pictured) or is it barely touching it?
that info would help me
thanks

[Phil Hudson]

The Mk V twin lamp head does have a sliding shutter mechanism, or at least both of mine do. It is quite sensitive but it's a basic mechanism which might need some cleaning from time to time.

[Luis-F-S]

Don't know if this will be of any help, but here is a shot of my 5108 head. It's a 4 bulb head without the shutter, but does have the red lever to move the filters out of the way. You can see, it's a little cleaner than yours, and unfortunately, as Steve pointed out, you may need to remove most of the insides of yours, clean, maybe paint and reassemble. Your other choice is to pick up a used 504 head, either single or double bulb at auction. They often go pretty cheap as parts without the rest of the enlarger. I've always avoided any dichroic head that had a built in shutter, I figured, only something else to break! Good luck.

165567

[ic-racer]

Likely it worked when new. Either there was damage in shipping, damage from tampering or damage due to mechanichal failure.
I'd disassemble, clean and inspect and look for damaged, bent, missing or misplaced parts.

[Luis-F-S]

Likely it worked when new. Either there was damage in shipping, damage from tampering or damage due to mechanichal failure.
I'd disassemble, clean and inspect and look for damaged, bent, missing or misplaced parts.

IC, Unfortunately, if he needs to replace parts, it may be cheaper to buy a new used head! Odyssey Sales and KHB Photografix although both do a great job, unfortunately aren't cheap (depending on which side of the pond he's in). L

[Fred L]

The filter 'panels' are sitting fine on the upper tracks and stay in the groove in my Mk IV head. What I think might be your problem is the snail cam gear or part that moves the filters in and out. It's possible that the filter frame isn't seated properly on the cam which causes it to jump the track so to speak. I should have taken a photo but it's a very tight space as it sits BELOW the filter sets. If I can, I'll try and get a photo and post another reply.

I'd also be tempted to disengage the shutter, if indeed, that's what blocking the light path.

[Luis-F-S]

There was a single lamp 504 head for sale on this forum back in January. Don't know if they sold it or still have it. Might be worth inquiring. L

[almostpilot]

Thank you all. From the images that sme of you have sent I can conclude two things
1. My enlarger is still filthy and will need major cleaning
2. My three filters are not sitting properly in the grooves, specially the shot sent with the 4 lamps shows the filters well seated in the groove and mine aren't.
However I just cannot see how i can make them sit better in there...

[Luis-F-S]

I'd start with your observation #1 and it may correct #2 when done. Good Luck. L

Ps., I'd still keep an eye out for a used 504 Dichro head!

[jbmia]

Thank you all. From the images that sme of you have sent I can conclude two things
1. My enlarger is still filthy and will need major cleaning
2. My three filters are not sitting properly in the grooves, specially the shot sent with the 4 lamps shows the filters well seated in the groove and mine aren't.
However I just cannot see how i can make them sit better in there...

Did you ever get this sorted out? It's been a while, but I just went through this myself recently...I recently acquired a 504 Dichro MkV head and took it completely apart to clean out the dichroic filters and all the build up in the fan assemblies... If had a skilled tech in the area, I'd have sent it off, but that's short supply where I'm at, so I take to some things like this on my own...

If your semi handy with a screw driver and a set of needle nose pliers, you should be okay. The whole thing basically breaks down into pieces.. the base, side walls, etc all break down. If you do it, take pictures and keep all the various sets of screws together.. A couple things I noted when I went through this exercise.

1. Be careful with the dichroic filters! Don't let them drop or break them...:eek:
2. Be careful with the springs that hold tension on the dichroic filters. I broke mine and replaced them with similar off the shelf springs of similar size and strength.. they seem to be working fine.
3. If you break the side walls down to the fans (and I would.. I'd clean the whole thing out if I were you), you want to reseal them with some foam or tape.. the current stuff in there is probably crumbly.. I think it's pretty key to have a clean fans.. especially with 500 watts.

The filters are held in place by the two brass colored cylinders with grooves in them. They sit in a slot and can be moved up and down when a nut on each one is loosened on the other side (which might be hidden by a felt strip IIRC) on the other side (where the light box sits). So, you can loosen these and reset them in the grooves on top and on bottom as necessary and then retension them and screw them down. They do need to have enough play in them to slide back and forth by spring tension when operating the filter dials though.

Regarding the shutter.. it is a pretty simple device. Mine was working and I didn't have any trouble getting it to work after reassembling it.. I guess it depends on if yours is just dirty or if there is a failure in the solenoid.. the mechanics are pretty simple beyond that.. it's just slides back and forth.

Not an expert or anything, but feel free to shoot over any questions.

John

[almostpilot]

Thank you very much for your input. I have taken it apart somewhat, cleaned as best as I could and yes i did figure out how to adjust and reset the brass colored cylinders. The filters were filthy. i mamaged to clean them without breaking the springs.
Cleaned the fan area too. the fans were just loose, not attached to the mounts any more, which shows you how badly the head was thrown around in transit by the dammned courier co. Terrible. I fixed the fans to the metal "grate" which allows the air to come out (sorry i cannot explain it better) with some wire. That is maybe a mistake because I just could not fit the fans on their original springs. Now i am worried that not being fitted in the original way the fans will vibrate against the grate and cause problems (motion problems during exposure).
I will have to test.
Re the shutter, yes i can slide it manually but I do not seem to be able to get it to work.
Can you tell me how yours work? is it all automatic, ie you start an exposure on the timer and the shutter slides open and closes after the timer is done?
Would help me a lot to know

Thanks again for your input.
If you have any ideas for the fans laet me know. If they vibrate i was thinking of putting some rubber washers between them and the grates, to dampen vibrations.

[jbmia]

It's been a few weeks, but I believe the fans are screwed to the side walls via screws w/ nuts and held firmly. There was foam sealing all the way around the fan to maximize suction, which I discarded (old and falling apart), clean the area, and retaped with gaffers tape to create the seal.

Yes, from what I know the shutter operates via a solenoid on the lamp circuit. The shutter is held to the solenoid via clamp. You can unscrew the clamp and see if the solenoid moves when you switch the enlarger lamps on. If there's no movement, you might check the connections and/or have someone with electronic knowledge test solenoid itself. If it's broken, who knows there may be an off the shelf replacement where the same or similar unit is used for another purpose.. worth a check. Here's some video's showing the action of the shutter:

https://youtu.be/lxBkkiNMRdc

https://youtu.be/eXf6UJD2WTI

[almostpilot]

Thank you so much for this! I really never understood how the "selenoid" shutter worked, but your explanation is a good start and i will watch the videos. For now i just wanted to say thanks.
Ps
If you have time to spare and want to explain it a little further "for idiots (me)" i would be most grateful.
Thank you again
alex





It's been a few weeks, but I believe the fans are screwed to the side walls via screws w/ nuts and held firmly. There was foam sealing all the way around the fan to maximize suction, which I discarded (old and falling apart), clean the area, and retaped with gaffers tape to create the seal.

Yes, from what I know the shutter operates via a solenoid on the lamp circuit. The shutter is held to the solenoid via clamp. You can unscrew the clamp and see if the solenoid moves when you switch the enlarger lamps on. If there's no movement, you might check the connections and/or have someone with electronic knowledge test solenoid itself. If it's broken, who knows there may be an off the shelf replacement where the same or similar unit is used for another purpose.. worth a check. Here's some video's showing the action of the shutter:

https://youtu.be/lxBkkiNMRdc

https://youtu.be/eXf6UJD2WTI

[almostpilot]

Update:
I have been fortunate in being able to contact a gentleman who actually built and serviced these beasts.
he has written this to me:

"Thanks for your enquiry with regard to your problem the shutter was introduced to the Devere twin lamp lightsources to reduce the after glow of the lamp once the timer has switched the lamp off after a exposure. The solenoid that operates the shutter could be the problem or the power supply itself which had a separate supply for the solenoid.
Unfortunately I do not have a solenoid but maybe the best option would be to find a electrician who could tell you if the supply from the stabiliser to the solenoid is ok .

The shutter system was never that successful and I have seen quite a few 500W lightsource where the shutter has been disconnected."

he then added...

"From memory there was a small transformer that supplied power to the solenoid and I think depending how old your system is they were located in the voltage stabiliser box or in the lightsource itself but you would need to take the side casting off to get access. I think you could use the system for B/W photography with no problem without the shutter working. It was only a problem when used in conjunction with a motorised roll easel where multiple exposures where used.
Good luck with the machine."

I thought I'd post it in case any other fellow forum member who own a 504 are interested.
i will check what he mentions but if it is too much trouble to fix it I will follow his advice and just leave it open all the time.

[Luis-F-S]

Great post, thanks for the info! Kind of why I've always avoided enlarger heads with built in shutters. Just one more thing to go wrong and not necessary for B&W! Thank goodness the 5108 head never had one! Something to be said for a 120 volt head.:)

[jbmia]

Hmmm... that's good feedback almostpilot. Well, unless there are there different versions of the devere twin lamp 504 then we know the transformer isnt in the lightsource, and must be in the power supply. Id give it whirl... maybe pop open the power supply (insert the `Im not an electrician' disclaimer) and put a meter on the transformer to see if your getting power when switched.. (be careful and use common sense if you do). If you are , then it's the solenoid and it might be worth taking a closer look at it. Up to you. Either way, your no worse off than Luis was at point A. And who knows ... if you get it working you might find it useful if you decide to print color. Good luck and keep us updated either way. Its follow up like this that makes this site valuable.

[almostpilot]

Final update, as requested.
I did not have an "expert" at hand and myself was not able to figure out the electrical workings of the shutter.
So after being told by the man who built these beasts (see previous posts) that I might as well keep it open at all times without adverse effects I have done just that.
Happy to say everything else working well now. Many thanks to all who helped me on this issue, it has been a bit of a slog but very happy to finally get there in the end.
STILL very very unhappy with the way the packages were treated by the dreadful DPD Courier company. And their customer service... a disgrace. Never again! If you are in the UK and need stuff sent abroad, do not use DPD. (They seem ok for transport within UK).
That's it from me on this issue.
Over and out!

[Rick N]

Here are a few pics of my DeVere 504 Dichromat MK-V Twin lamp model.


170481170482170483170484

[almostpilot]

Several months later...
Enlarger working well, the filters deliver the gradation expected at the expected settings (I was worried they could have faded) and all in all the machine is good. I find that the De Vere timer attached to it tends to be quicker than my stopwatch (you set 5 sec and you get 4 sec) but it is consistent so as long as it keeps working I can replicate exactly print density from one day to the next.
Just one question to other 504 owners. Have you tried printing a half plate neg? Of course you would need to make a custom neg carrier for it. I am tempted to try it... Has anyone here done that? any advice?

[RJ-]

Just one question to other 504 owners. Have you tried printing a half plate neg? Of course you would need to make a custom neg carrier for it. I am tempted to try it... Has anyone here done that? any advice?

I use a Devere 504 although I'm sorry I don't understand any of the technicality of your particular model (my limitation, not yours).

I print half-plate negatives (rarely) and wholeplate (mostly) with the Devere 504. Not at the negative carrier stage since a 6.5 x 4.75 inch negative will not fit into a 5 x 4 inch carriage nor be adequately field illuminated evenly without extreme engineering. Contact printing.

At this level of technicality, it's probably easier to acquire a Devere 10x8 enlarger. Or so I thought then. Knowing the practical space limitations available, contact printing with wholeplate format become more feasible.

Perhaps you'll find a different solution.

Kind regards,

RJ