Film Storage Question

[Paul Kinzer]

I wasn't sure where else to put this very newbie question.

I am planning a trip for late summer, and it's where I really want to do my first intensive LF photography. I've done both 35mm and 120 film photography, but this time I hope to do both color transparencies in 4x5, as well as some 5x7 B&W. I have half a dozen holders in both sizes, but obviously want to take more than a dozen images in each. When I want to change exposed film for new film in the holders, what is the best way to store the exposed film? In an empty film box?

I feel rather silly asking this question. I know that those who know the answer must think it's very obvious. But I live in a small town with no one to see in person who might help me, so I'm on my own. I've done loads of reading and learning, but this is one question I have not found an answer for; I suppose just because it is so basic.

I'll have other questions that are just about as innocent and naive.... In fact, I just thought of another! But that will go in a different thread.

[biedron]

Paul,

Yes, empty film boxes are the way to go. If you are starting out and don't have any spare film boxes, just ask here on the Forum (perhaps in the WTB section). Generally people will send you some just for the cost of shipping. I've got 4x5 boxes if needed but no 5x7.

A changing tent such as the Harrison one is a great help when traveling.

Bob

[Paul Kinzer]

Thanks, Bob!

I assume that if I were only taking one box of film, I'd only need one empty box to store exposed film in? Would you be willing to send me a 4x5 box? I could PM you, or you me.

I'm watching a Harrison tent on eBay right now. I had a changing bag, but I made it into bag bellows for a monorail camera I also intend to put to use (but not take on the trip; for that I recently bought a Rittreck View 5x7).

[Pere Casals]

I wasn't sure where else to put this very newbie question.

I am planning a trip for late summer, and it's where I really want to do my first intensive LF photography. I've done both 35mm and 120 film photography, but this time I hope to do both color transparencies in 4x5, as well as some 5x7 B&W. I have half a dozen holders in both sizes, but obviously want to take more than a dozen images in each. When I want to change exposed film for new film in the holders, what is the best way to store the exposed film? In an empty film box?

I feel rather silly asking this question. I know that those who know the answer must think it's very obvious. But I live in a small town with no one to see in person who might help me, so I'm on my own. I've done loads of reading and learning, but this is one question I have not found an answer for; I suppose just because it is so basic.

I'll have other questions that are just about as innocent and naive.... In fact, I just thought of another! But that will go in a different thread.


Hello Paul,

For convenience, I've been using the same film box to store both the exposed and the unexposed sheets, just you need a second dark plastic bag, I stick an adhesive label in the exposed bag that is evident by touch. I feel more convenient having a single box inside the changing bag.

At the beginning, when I had no additional dark bag, I was using a common plastic clear bag to place exposed sheets inside, and then this clear bag was placed inside the original dark bag of the film, in the back side of the sheets, to not touch emulsion.

If you have to replace sheets in the field you need careful handling, emulsion surface can be abused to some extend, but the edges of the sheets can scratch the surface of other sheets, be careful with that.

Also dust can land on the emulsion, and leave a footprint in the image. Because this I handle sheets in the changing bag with the emulsion side down. Have the changing clean and don't introduce the sleeves inside the bag, just the wrists, as fabric can emit dust.

If dust reaches the emulsion after exposure there is no problem, as it's later washed by chem.

Also a print paper box & bag can be perfectly useful for the moment.

Regards.

[biedron]

Paul,

As Pere indicated, you can get by with just one box. But it is more convenient with a spare or two. I usually take at least two with me to segregate any potential shots that I have somehow screwed up that might require pushing or pulling.

I'll PM you to get your address

Bob

[Leigh]

Hi Paul,

I'd be happy to send you a couple of empty boxes gratis. PM me your mailing address.

I always suggest using the complete original packaging, with all three box sections and
the internal envelopes with cardboard stiffeners. Those protect the film from fingernails.

- Leigh

[Paul Kinzer]

Thanks for the responses! I'd like to get started with as much screw-up-proofing as possible, as I know I'll need it. As an astrophotographer (film once, but now digital), I know about learning curves, following step-by-step procedures, and patience. As a guy who's not as young as I once was, I know I'm more, not less, prone to errors. I'll stick with as many crutches as I can! I'll keep the film separated, in complete boxes, at least until I come up with a routine that works for me.

Leigh: PM sent.

[brad martin]

You got some advice about using a changing tent. If you're planning on loading holders in a changing tent don't. They are dust and lint nightmares.

If you are traveling bring along the means to blackout a hotel bathroom. A roll of foil and some painters tape at a minimum. Black plastic is better.

You'll figure it out. Don't waste your money on a changing tent.

[Paul Kinzer]

Hey, Brad, thanks! That makes sense now that you mention it, especially as we'll be spending a lot of time going in and out of the vehicle we'll also be doing most of our sleeping in. I may still get a changing bag, though, since they're so much cheaper, for unforeseen emergencies. I'll keep it in a big ziplock and only take it out if I really need it.

[Rick Rycroft]

I vacuum my Harrison tent out once in a while and never found dust a problem.

[Mrportr8]

You got some advice about using a changing tent. If you're planning on loading holders in a changing tent don't. They are dust and lint nightmares.

If you are traveling bring along the means to blackout a hotel bathroom. A roll of foil and some painters tape at a minimum. Black plastic is better.

You'll figure it out. Don't waste your money on a changing tent.

One more thing about hotel rooms and bathrooms to consider: lighting. They use mostly CFL these days and the problem for us is after you turn them off they're still glowing. In fact they glow for up to a 1/2 hour. You have two choices: 1) don't turn on the lights for at least 45 minutes before using the bathroom to change film, 2) remove the bulbs from the room.

[Paul Kinzer]

One more thing about hotel rooms and bathrooms to consider: lighting. They use mostly CFL these days and the problem for us is after you turn them off they're still glowing. In fact they glow for up to a 1/2 hour. You have two choices: 1) don't turn on the lights for at least 45 minutes before using the bathroom to change film, 2) remove the bulbs from the room.

Another good point I never would have thought of!

[Pali K]

You can use led bulbs that shut off immediately.

[brad martin]

I vacuum my Harrison tent out once in a while and never found dust a problem.

I should clarify. I was referring to a changing bag, not a tent. I've never used a tent such as the Harrison for loading 4x5 film holders.

[archphotofisher]

Traveling with my cameras, I have always carried empty film boxes well marked -1/normal/+1 eventually I added -2 & +2 for B&W and the same for color negatives and Transparencies.
Changing bags always wanted a Harrison but never got around to buying one, In the field a typical black bag changing when needed, it did get hot in the wrong locations always in the shade. While traveling, I used or should I say, my assistant like the Hotel bathrooms the best, most are interior rooms with no windows, so blacking out the door was always easy, we carried two sheets of black felt 6ft x 12ft as we used these to black out windows on interior projects. So we would place one on the outside of the door, and the other on the inside (if needed) and used the sink counter as layout.
There are my two bits.

[Paul Kinzer]

My 'assistant' (my 15-year-old son) and I will mostly be staying in our mini-van, for which we will soon be building a raised platform in the back on which to sleep. We did the same in a different mini-van for our trip to the Kitt Peak Observatory in 2012 to see/image the Transit of Venus (see one of the photos here (https://seeingstarswi.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/5-composite1.jpg)). He was much smaller then, but I'm much smaller now: 50 pounds lost since my December surgery. Our gear will go under the platform. If it were not for my bad back, this would not be a problem at all. In my younger days, I hitch-hiked all over the western US (including Alaska) and Canada, sleeping under bridges and in the 'leaves' of interstate cloverleaf ramps. But those days are in the past, so we will be staying in motels on some nights. I'll get some felt, as that will be easier than foil and tape, I think, and create a 'light-lock' over the bathroom door. I should do it soon, and get to practicing!

Would folks suggest just unloading and re-loading the film while on the trip and saving the developing for when I get home after (about) three weeks? I just got some drums and a Uniroller, and have chemicals on the way, so I guess I could take those with me, but I'll also have a telescope (or three) and the mount and camera needed for digital imaging of the solar eclipse. Space will be at a premium. Still, I've always found that I can usually find the space I need to.

[biedron]

I'd recommend that if you can afford it, get a quality Harrison tent. The "regular" size will do nicely for 4x5 and in a pinch 8x10 should that be in the cards someday. Keep it as clean as you possibly can.

Consider:
You are out and about, far from your motel, and you run out of loaded film holders but want to do some more shooting. How do you load more?

Yes, you can block up light sources in most motel bathrooms - some bathrooms are easier to do than others. I did this when first starting out. But the tent is so much more convenient. And motel bathrooms are not necessarily "clean rooms" either.

Bob

[Paul Kinzer]

Hi Bob,

I do plan to get something for the road, though I've spent so much already that I'm not sure I can afford a Harrison tent. Especially when a changing bag is so much less expensive. I know those are much harder to use because they have no superstructure to hold them up, but I can easily fabricate something. We even have a possibility or two on hand. One is a collapsible 'bug tent', meant for holding caterpillars while they morph into butterflies. I'm pretty sure it's in our basement, and has a hole in it. The flexible rod in it would work to hold open a changing bag. We also have more than one old flexible tent pole we could use. Cut to length, I could cross two of them inside the bag.

Is there anything else about a Harrison tent that makes it more desirable than a decent, much less expensive, changing bag?

Paul

[biedron]

Paul,

Well, personally, I've only used Harrisons. But anecdotally I've seen people complain about the "floppiness" due to lack of supporting structure and apparently some changing bags have the arm thingies at odd angles that make them difficult to use.

The Harrison is quality made, with a double-layer closure (have to open two zippered doors to open), double-elastic closure for the arm thingies. Plus the bungee-corded collapsable support rods keep the tent "inflated" and make setup easy. I understand cost can be an issue. Used ones appear occasionally. Maybe a Harrison is a "down the road" purchase if you stick with LF and end up taking multiple road trips. It could well be your modified changing bag will work just fine and you won't feel you need anything else.

Bob

[Kevin Crisp]

A few times I've carried extra boxes and changed holders in dark motel bathrooms. I am sure the tents work fine.

But film holders (especially 4X5) can be had for so little $$ these days that I just got more holders. I like loading them up in the darkroom with the HEPA filter, having them all loaded and ready to go so I don't have to worry about it.

[Paul Kinzer]

I hear what you're saying, Kevin, and I do have a bunch of 4x5 holders, but a couple of things:

1. I'm not sure yet whether I'll be doing any 4x5. I have a multi-format holder for 120 film, and five working 5x7 holders (plus a sixth that is pretty rough to get the slides in and out, but I might get it working). I got a very good deal on the 5x7 holders, but wouldn't call them inexpensive. My thought right now is to do 6x9/6x12 color transparencies and 5x7 B&W. (4x5 color film is really spendy, and doesn't exist in 5x7.) And I don't mean for just this trip, but maybe for always. I'm just not a fan of how square the 4x5 format is. That's just me, but it's why I got a 6x8 back for my RB67, and why I don't plan to keep my Pentax 6x7 much longer. I'll try to keep an open mind, though.

2. For this trip, I plan to bring along 50 sheets of 5x7 FP4+. I'd like to bring more, but want to deliberately limit myself, so I take more care and do other things. The trip will be about three weeks long. 25 film holders would be quite a load!

Still, I am glad that I got the five (maybe six) 5x7 holders. It will really help on shorter trips. I had only paid for four, to a seller on eBay who had 24 total for sale. She sent me two more at no extra charge, just because no one else was buying them! They're older, and not pristine, but except for the one in questionable shape, they seem to be in fine working condition.

[j.e.simmons]

Sally Mann toured in a big SUV (Suburban?) and set up a developing tent in the back. There are a couple of pictures in her book Hold Still. She was using slow wet plate, but looking at the photos might give you ideas. I've thought of building something from the blackout material you can buy in fabric stores - it's sold to line drapes. I've used it to block windows in bathroom dark rooms and it is light tight.