PDA

View Full Version : Your Favorite 90mm for 4x5?



Salmo22
12-Apr-2017, 07:51
I'm sure this isn't a new inquiry, but my searches of the forum seem lacking, so I decided to ask. I'm returning to LF x45 after a long hiatus. I'm going for a three lens set-up 210mm, 150mm, and 90mm. I'm generally settled on what I want for the 210mm and 150mm, but the 90mm is tasking me.

What is your favorite 90mm for 4x5 and why? Size, cost, color rendering, etc...

Thanks;

Jeff D Welker

Bill_1856
12-Apr-2017, 08:03
The plain, old, tiny, cheap Angulon (6.8). Use it well stopped down, and it's just as sharp as the latest super lenses. The only real drawback is the coverage is limited, but it has plenty to correct buildings perspective (not even a problem if you scan and print digitally).

djdister
12-Apr-2017, 08:06
There are lots of 90mm Super Angulons out there of the f/8 variety, less so of the f/5.6 type. Get either you can find...

David Karp
12-Apr-2017, 08:31
I have owned three 90s over the years. If I was photographing architecture or only working out of the car, I would prefer a Rodenstock 90mm f/4.5 Grandagon-N. It is big and used 82mm filters. For hiking, I prefer the 90mm f/8 Nikkor SW. The lens is smaller and lighter than the f/4.5 or f/5.6 90s, but has the same image circle as all of them but the Schneider 90mm XL. It uses 67mm filters.

Larry Gebhardt
12-Apr-2017, 09:42
I've had a Super Angulon f/8 and found it was too dim for my camera without a fresnel. Picked up a Calumet f/6.8 (private label Rodenstock Grandagon if I recall correctly), which is just enough brighter that I find it useable most of the time. I still wish the lens was brighter as the sun goes down. Just something to keep in mind.

John Layton
12-Apr-2017, 09:44
I've had great luck with my 90mm F/6.8 Rodenstock Grandagon. Just a bit brighter than the (f/8) Super Angulon while still reasonably compact, takes 67mm filters, and also works fine (albeit with limited coverage) for 5x7. Used prices on these also seem very reasonable lately.

Eric Woodbury
12-Apr-2017, 10:41
Nikkor SW 90mm/8. It's not huge (still 67mm threads) and has enough coverage to work with 5x7. I used a SA/8 years ago. It was fine, too, but a real squeeze for 57. If cost were an issue and 57 not, then I'd probably go Fujinon. I only shoot BW, so color rendition is not a factor. If you want the exposure even center-to-corner; get a center filter. Happy snapping. --ejw--

angusparker
12-Apr-2017, 10:52
Another vote for 90mm f/8 Nikkor SW.

Leigh
12-Apr-2017, 10:57
I'm quite fond of my Fujinon SWD 5.6/90 with EBC coating.

Its huge 236mm image circle easily covers 5x7 with movements.

The image quality is excellent (this coming from a shooter who uses Rodenstock APO-Sironar S lenses in all longer focal lengths, so I'm certifiably picky).

- Leigh

Corran
12-Apr-2017, 11:21
90mm Nikkor.....

I've used a lot of 90s. I'll have to disagree with Bill about the Angulon. Unless you find a really good one, they aren't great at the periphery until f/32 and there's definitely no room for extensive rise for architecture.

I've had a lot of 90mm SA lenses as well and a lot of them are uncoated. I find the uncoated ones to flare just often enough to be annoying. I would get an MC one.

The 90mm Nikkor is fantastic pretty much at any stop and for even the most extreme movements. It beats the SA for IC and seems to have less fall-off.

The 90mm XL is probably the "best" in terms of sharpness and of course has a huge IC but it's massive and has larger filters (95mm).

I've also used a 90mm f/6.8 Rodenstock (older version) and it was one of the cheapest I've purchased at just about $100 but just about as good as the Nikkor or SA as far as I can see.

The Nikkor always comes with me hiking, the 90XL comes if I'm shooting 6x17 or handheld (matched to my Technika).

Bob Salomon
12-Apr-2017, 11:37
All Super Angulon lenses were fully coated. They never made uncounted ones. You probably confused coated with multi coated Super Angulons.

Corran
12-Apr-2017, 11:50
I guess so. The two SA lenses I have here on hand reflect completely neutral colors off the glass, while other lenses that from what I understand are "single-coated" still seem to have amber/greenish highlights in the reflections. Maybe they are MC.

If these SA lenses are single-coated it doesn't seem to help much. My first SA was MC for sure and had colorful reflections on the glass and I never had flare issues. I have read others have no problems with flare on their older SA lenses but I have had lots of flare with these (one of my older SA lenses is on a Sinar Handy that I've been using lately and I've really noticed the flare).

So IMO I would hold out for an MC if getting an SA. They seem to all be pretty inexpensive these days.

MAubrey
12-Apr-2017, 12:05
Definitely a Nikon 90--either f/4.5 or f/8. Great coverage, great quality. As to which just depends on your weight/aperture/size trade off priorities.

Steven Tribe
12-Apr-2017, 12:49
If you want further opinions, there are plenty of them in the 2 long threads given at the bottom of this page which address the same question.

Jim Galli
12-Apr-2017, 18:41
My favorite 90mm is a 4" Dagor. I know, there's always one.

Salmo22
12-Apr-2017, 20:10
If you want further opinions, there are plenty of them in the 2 long threads given at the bottom of this page which address the same question.

Thanks Steven. I must be the worst at finding these prior threads. Sorry for the repeat, but I enjoy the comments.

DG 3313
12-Apr-2017, 22:23
+1 for the Grandagon N 90 mm F/6.8


I've had great luck with my 90mm F/6.8 Rodenstock Grandagon. Just a bit brighter than the (f/8) Super Angulon while still reasonably compact, takes 67mm filters, and also works fine (albeit with limited coverage) for 5x7. Used prices on these also seem very reasonable lately.

Doremus Scudder
13-Apr-2017, 03:24
Let's generalize a bit first.

For more modern 90mm lenses, there are "big and fast with larger image circle" and "smaller and lighter with smaller image circle" 90mm lenses

Big and fast include the f/5.6 Schneider Super Angulon and Fujinon SW lenses, as well as the f/4.5 Rodenstock Grandagon and Nikkor SW series lenses. The Schneider Super Angulon XL is the biggest of the bunch here with the most coverage

Smaller and lighter include the f/8 Nikkor and Fujinon SW lenses, f/8 Schneider Super Angulons and the f/6.8 Rodenstock Grandagons. Of these, the Nikkor SW f/8 stands out for having the largest image circle in the category.

There are also older-style very small lenses that just barely cover 4x5 without movements in the 90mm focal length, the f/6.8 Schneider Angulon is a good example of this. I include the 100mm Kodak Wide Field Ektar in this category as well.

So, you really have to decide between coverage, size and maximum aperture. If you plan on using lots of movements, then you need to go big and fast. If you need lightweight and portability, you'll need to find the right compromise between size and coverage.

My personal preference is for lightweight. I have a multi-coated 90mm f/8 Super Angulon that I just can't seem to part with because it's just incredibly sharp (I managed to get a really good one). If I had to start from scratch, I'd go for the 90mm f/8 Nikkor SW for the extra coverage at the same size.

Best,

Doremus

Mick Fagan
13-Apr-2017, 04:04
I have two 90mm lenses. A Schneider Kreuznach Angulon f/6.8 90mm manufactured in 1963. It is tiny, has enough coverage for 4x5 with minimal movements and is really sharp from f/16 to f/22. I have also used it at f/32 with unbelievable results for a family portrait job in a very tight situation and heaps of people. Weighs 158g including end caps and mount board on my kitchen scales.

Perfect for backpacking and doing landscape photography with minimal movements, but fairly limiting for architectural stuff where you sometimes need reasonably large movements. Tiny filter ring, so I generally use it by hand holding any filter over the front. I do have a step up ring to 52mm and for any serious session requiring a filter, I use that.

Having been frustrated a few times with the lack of coverage with the Schneider 90mm lens, I looked for quite some time at which 90mm lens to replace it. Eventually I settled on the Fujinon SW f/8 90mm (SW Super Wide) with an image circle of 216mm, the angle of coverage at f22 is 100; it takes a 67mm filter. It weighs 407g

I did look seriously at the Fujinon SWD (SWD Super Wide Deluxe) f/5.6 90mm with an image circle of 236mm, angle of coverage 105. But apart from the fact it takes 82mm filters, of which I have nothing, it is seriously expensive in comparison to the Fujinon SW f/8 90mm. It weighs 605g

I tried some extreme movements with my Shen Hao and bag bellows to see if I needed to use a centre filter to reduce corner fall off. With the maximum rise of 35mm and rear shift of 23mm to one side, the lens performed beautifully without the need for a centre filter as I thought it may need. As the lens has coverage enough for 5x7 with reasonable movements, it seems I am unable to stretch it beyond use for 4x5 camera work.

The Fujinon was selected as it featured my required criteria, more than ample coverage for movements on a wooden folder and my Toyo monorail (if so desired). Priced within my budget and as I knew from experience, focusing at f/8 is not an issue, I went for an f/8 lens over a usually more expensive f/5.6.

My original intention was to move the Schneider Angulon on, however, I am now keeping it as I can backpack with that lens and/or my Fujinon 150, both of which can travel mounted in my folded down Shen Hao; both are very tiny lenses.

Mick.

EdSawyer
13-Apr-2017, 05:29
Nikkor SW 90/8 is the best. Check http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/testing.html if there is any doubt it's got the best resolution of any of the 90s for 4x5. Plus: light, great image circle, 8 elements for superb correction, not that expensive. I like it so much I have 2 of them.

Bob Salomon
13-Apr-2017, 06:10
Nikkor SW 90/8 is the best. Check http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/testing.html if there is any doubt it's got the best resolution of any of the 90s for 4x5. Plus: light, great image circle, 8 elements for superb correction, not that expensive. I like it so much I have 2 of them.

Maybe of the 90 mm lenses that he toyed with but he hardly includes all 90mm lenses so your response should be tempered to reflect that this is not a complete test nor is it a scientific test as it is not repeatable. Never was and never will be.

xkaes
13-Apr-2017, 08:45
Fuji made several 90mm f8 lenses in the 6/4 and 6/6 configurations. They also made a few 90mm f5.6 lenses in 8/4 and 8/6 configurations. The early ones were single coated, later ones EBC coated. I owned a 90mm f8 in the 6/6 style with EBC coating. I found the results to be superb and didn't find the f8 aperture to be an issue, but then I'm used to using a FGuji A 180mm f9 and a Fuji T 600mm f12! I avoided the 90mm f5.6 models because of their size, weight, cost and the 82mm filter thread. Later, I sold my 90mm f8 (67mm thread) because it didn't seem that much different from my Fuji 75mm f5.6 (8/6 & 67mm thread). I opted for the Fuji 105mm f5.6 CM-W which is smaller and lighter and covers 4x5 -- and not much different from the 90mm versions except for a smaller IC.

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm

cowanw
13-Apr-2017, 09:57
Just to be odd, I like my 9cm. G. Leitmeyr Munchen Weitwinkel Anastigmat f 6.8.

jim10219
13-Apr-2017, 11:56
I have a Fujinon 90mm 5.6 with the EBC coating. I having nothing bad to say about it other than it's size. In fact, it's my favorite lens! The contrast is great, it's sharper than I need, and has tons of room for movements. I use it for both architecture and landscapes. I chose it due to it having the most coverage for the least amount of money. In fact, I own a bunch of Fujinon lenses due to their quality and features for the price.

I have been thinking about getting a Raptar or Optar 90mm 6.8. I've got the coverage thing taken care of with the Fujinon, but it would be nice to have something smaller, and these look the smallest.

John Layton
13-Apr-2017, 12:45
Jim, if you're thinking about a 90mm Raptar or Optar f/6.8 for their size...you should also consider a Wide Angle Dagor. Wonderful lens...at least the example that I had a few years back...which I sold to help purchase my current Rodenstock Grandagon 6.8. But more and more these days, I wish I'd also kept the Dagor for its diminutive size.

jim10219
13-Apr-2017, 17:31
Jim, if you're thinking about a 90mm Raptar or Optar f/6.8 for their size...you should also consider a Wide Angle Dagor. Wonderful lens...at least the example that I had a few years back...which I sold to help purchase my current Rodenstock Grandagon 6.8. But more and more these days, I wish I'd also kept the Dagor for its diminutive size.
Thanks for the tip! But seeing as how I have 4 lenses that I still haven't shot yet, I'm in no rush for the time being. I'm finding more good deals on lenses than I am things to shoot with them! I've got a 210mm B&L Tessar, a 135mm CZJ Tessar, an 8 in. F5.6 Petzval, and a 360mm tele-Xenar, all for a little over $200!

Salmo22
14-Apr-2017, 10:25
All:

Thanks for your input and recommendations. Definitely helpful and appreciated. I've decided to go with a Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm f/6.8 and have begun my search for a "mint" copy. To guide my evaluation of potential candidates, please help me understand the practical differences between the "green line" Grandogon-N's and the non-green line Grandagon-N's? Is there a difference in image circle, angle of view, lens coating, etc? Or, is it simply an aesthetic difference and has nothing to do with lens performance? I wasn't able to find any online info that helps me determine the differences, if any, in the various iterations of this lens.

Again, I am grateful for the kind assistance from this group.

Regards;

Jeff

Bob Salomon
14-Apr-2017, 10:42
All:

Thanks for your input and recommendations. Definitely helpful and appreciated. I've decided to go with a Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm f/6.8 and have begun my search for a "mint" copy. To guide my evaluation of potential candidates, please help me understand the practical differences between the "green line" Grandogon-N's and the non-green line Grandagon-N's? Is there a difference in image circle, angle of view, lens coating, etc? Or, is it simply an aesthetic difference and has nothing to do with lens performance? I wasn't able to find any online info that helps me determine the differences, if any, in the various iterations of this lens.

Again, I am grateful for the kind assistance from this group.

Regards;

Jeff
Green stripe is the last version made. Non green stripe could have been made anywhere after they added the MC designation, non MC non green stripe is not multi coated.

Coverage on all is identical. Green stripe would be the best performer.

Salmo22
14-Apr-2017, 10:47
Green stripe is the last version made. Non green stripe could have been made anywhere after they added the MC designation, non MC non green stripe is not multi coated.

Coverage on all is identical. Green stripe would be the best performer.

Thank you for the clarification Bob.

Larry Gebhardt
14-Apr-2017, 12:21
Don't forget that Caltar has a version of the Grandagon N with the green stripe, which may be slightly cheaper and certainly expands the pool of available copies.

xkaes
14-Apr-2017, 13:44
And the Fujinon NSW 90mm f8 (only a half f-stop slower which you won't notice), has a 6/6 design, EBC multi-coating, is smaller and lighter, and undoubtedly less expensive than both the Grandagon and the Caltar mentioned about.

pdmoylan
15-Apr-2017, 09:48
Schneider 90mm xl is truly brilliant with the Nikkor 90f4.5 a close second. The Nikkor 90f8 is very contrasty, a little warmer than it's Nikkor brethren, but with great coverage and flare control.

You might want to consider the Schneider 80mm f4.5SS which is light, fast and fairly close to 90mm. You really can't use it wide open but it might be ideal if you can find a clean example.

Pdm