Borderless easels with FB papers?

[Neal Chaves]

Does anyone have experience with borderless easels like the Beseler or Saunders and DW FB papers? Can they keep the paper curl under control? I'm sure they worked well with RC, which lays flat.

[ic-racer]

The elimination of any protective border seems to be contradictory to some reasons to use fiber base paper.

[LabRat]

DWFB usually has a wave to it, so merely touching the edges will probably not be enough... People that print borderless usually place a sheet of plate glass over the paper, or use a glass proofing frame... Or print with a border, and cut off the margins...

Steve K

[jp]

I'm a bit of a cretin and have a "speed easel" for every size I print. I cover the border with the matte, or as Steve suggests, trim it.

Except when contact printing, when the frame/glass makes a pretty nice edge-to-edge print.

[jose angel]

Usual Beseler/Saunders hardly can keep current FB DW papers under control, so a borderless easel is just dreaming. Most of the times, to get them perfectly flat a vacuum easel is needed.
---
Neil, nothing to do with you, but please let me to seize this opportunity to place my rant against DW papers. I hate them. I know some people prefer DW for everything, but there was a time where FB were available in very different weights; SW ones were much easier to manipulate, to get flat, to wash, to dry, to mount, etc. etc. and had a very nice and delicate feel.
I wonder why it seem to be that difficult to sell SW papers... Time ago I chatted with a Slavich rep and said they used to offer it but dealers don`t wanted it... right now, I only know a unique seller who offer SW paper, from an unknown (to me) manufacturer, and only in very small sizes (availability is also an issue... ).

>>Manufacturers please, made some FB paper in SW! (or with any kind of thinner base -like vintage ones-)... for sure you`ll make some of your customers much happier.

[interneg]

Usual Beseler/Saunders hardly can keep current FB DW papers under control, so a borderless easel is just dreaming. Most of the times, to get them perfectly flat a vacuum easel is needed.
---
Neil, nothing to do with you, but please let me to seize this opportunity to place my rant against DW papers. I hate them. I know some people prefer DW for everything, but there was a time where FB were available in very different weights; SW ones were much easier to manipulate, to get flat, to wash, to dry, to mount, etc. etc. and had a very nice and delicate feel.
I wonder why it seem to be that difficult to sell SW papers... Time ago I chatted with a Slavich rep and said they used to offer it but dealers don`t wanted it... right now, I only know a unique seller who offer SW paper, from an unknown (to me) manufacturer, and only in very small sizes (availability is also an issue... ).

>>Manufacturers please, made some FB paper in SW! (or with any kind of thinner base -like vintage ones-)... for sure you`ll make some of your customers much happier.

I think it was Ron Mowrey (Photo Engineer on APUG) who described coating single weight paper as being like 'coating wet paper towel' - the potential for web breakage and consequent mess/ costly downtime count strongly against SW paper. That, and you'd need to order multiple tonnes of custom made paper base from Schoeller. Given that FB paper & archival inkjet products are marketed as 'premium' products, heavy paper bases seem de rigeur (apart from Kozo etc).

[alexmuir]

Usual Beseler/Saunders hardly can keep current FB DW papers under control, so a borderless easel is just dreaming. Most of the times, to get them perfectly flat a vacuum easel is needed.
---
Neil, nothing to do with you, but please let me to seize this opportunity to place my rant against DW papers. I hate them. I know some people prefer DW for everything, but there was a time where FB were available in very different weights; SW ones were much easier to manipulate, to get flat, to wash, to dry, to mount, etc. etc. and had a very nice and delicate feel.
I wonder why it seem to be that difficult to sell SW papers... Time ago I chatted with a Slavich rep and said they used to offer it but dealers don`t wanted it... right now, I only know a unique seller who offer SW paper, from an unknown (to me) manufacturer, and only in very small sizes (availability is also an issue... ).

>>Manufacturers please, made some FB paper in SW! (or with any kind of thinner base -like vintage ones-)... for sure you`ll make some of your customers much happier.

I agree, and I would buy single-weight paper if it was available.

Alex.


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[Bernard_L]

Double sided adhesive tape on the baseboard, along the diagonals of the paper format and the horizontal and vertical bisecting lines. I mean the thin, medium strength double sided tape, for office use, not the super-strong one with a foam core. Rub with hand to remove excessive adhesion. Change (and clean baseboard with ethyl alcool) when inoperative. Put "too complicated" comments on hold until after you tried.

[Ted R]

I print 16x20 on a DIY easel made from a spare picture frame. The frame has a narrow lip (about one quarter inch) all round the edge, this is what holds the paper flat, it works by gravity.

[Neal Chaves]

Thanks for all the response! I use conventional bladed and Speed Easels for all my work now and did have a Saunders borderless easel I used with RC paper years ago before I settled on FB exclusively. I had a framing idea that would require a borderless print, but it doesn't seem worth the effort now that it probably means a vacuum easel.

I am aware that the gurus insisted on trimming prints because they feared chemical intrusion along the edges, but I have well-washed FB prints over thirty years old that have never been trimmed and show no such contamination.

[Barrie B.]

There is a way to overcome this problem : make yourself some ' vacuum easels ' you will have to have one for each paper size. they work well for all types of papers.
Cheers Barrie B.

[stellingarts]

Great idea, but how paper stick without frame, Please elaborate or post any image that help me to understand it properly!

[Jim Jones]

A simple vacuum frame uses vacuum to suck photo paper down onto a flat surface. I made one by drilling small holes on a 1/2 inch grid on a sheet of fiberboard. This was separated from a base plate by a frame and internal braces that kept the vacuum from distorting the fiberboard. A vacuum cleaner or shop vac provided enough vacuum to hold paper flat. Guides along two adjacent edges precisely positioned the paper. The vacuum frame can be made to fit the largest paper one expects to use, and masked down for smaller paper.

The large vacuum frames used in many graphic arts use a plate of strong glass on top and a pad beneath. Vacuum between the two draws them and negatives and light sensitive material tight together. This permits using the very bright (and hot!) lights above the frame to expose slow light sensitive materials. These frames use pumps that, unlike a vacuum cleaner, can draw about 25 inches of vacuum.

[Jim Noel]

I used an 11x14 Saunders Borderless easel very successfully for years. They also made a 16x20, but not having used one, I am unsure as to its success in holding the paper flat.

[Mark Sampson]

Two years ago I needed SW paper for a certain project. I found 8x10 Slavich paper; that was the only brand available. It worked well for the purpose, but handling it was a royal pain. Remember that SW paper was meant for commercial work, handouts, reproduction, etc. Pure function.
When I first worked in a lab, in '77, Agfa Brovira SW was the standard there. RC paper was around, but not good enough for the lab owner. There was one employee, 40% of whose job it was to feed 5x7 and 8x10 glossies into the giant Arkay drum dryer.
In '81 I went to work in another custom lab as a b/w printer. It was machine-processed RC paper (Kodak Polycontrast Rapid II RC) there. The lab owner didn't mind and the customers didn't care. The market for SW paper has gone away in the last 36 years... the b/w paper market, what's left of it, is all "fine-art" now. DW papers have the deserved reputation for look, 'premium' quality, and handle easier in trays, so that's what we have.
And I have to say, I hate borderless prints; didn't like them when it was part of the job, and don't now either. 1/2" border on all my prints plus extra if the picture proportion doesn't match the paper. Gives you something to hold onto and protects the image from physical damage.