Scan with my amazin lightbox and a normal scanner

[bizarrius]

Hello!
I was reading about scanners because i want to scan 4x5 negatives.
What i see is that all i need is a light on the other side to hit on the negative and voila.
So. i have this amazing lightbox i build my self. it looks like those xray viewers that doctors have to see if you broke something.
if i buy a normal scanner, put my negative on it, an ANR glass on top and the lightbox on top, will it scan properly? is there anything more into film scanning than this?

thanks in advance.

Demetris

[Ken Lee]

I your scanner expects to illuminate a reflective target (a sheet of paper for instance) it has its own lamp. What will prevent the lamp from shining ?

[bizarrius]

i am trying now on a really crappy scanner that scans, prints etc (those 40euro crap)
it doesn't really work but because of the really low quality of the scanner i think. Its not a shinning problem. its like everything is scanned into cut lines.

an example here: 163078

should i try with a better scanner or i'll get the same results?

[Pere Casals]

Hello!
What i see is that all i need is a light on the other side to hit on the negative and voila.


It will work but with much lower performance. Problem is stray light.

Some very cheap scanners worked like you say, all film area is always illuminated.

Flatbed scanners have illuminators that move while scanning, then only the scanned row is illuminated, not receiving parasite (stray) light from the rest of the film area.

Best way is drum scanner, it illuminates (with (rgb) laser ray) only the single point that is scanned, so reading is virtually free from stray light.

Your system can be a good starting point, but you won't read well dense areas because stray /parasite light from clear areas.

So my advice, try that, it's a good starting experience, I also did that once.

For the future I'd recommend an Epson V800, cheap, semi-pro and competent. For Velvia/Provia deep shadows still you will need to purchase separately the multiexposure feature for Silverfast bundled software, this feature comes standard with V850.

Also there are other professional faltbeds that are way more expensive, with some performance enhacements, not much.


If you go to Flickr and search "4x5" or "8x10" photographs you'll see that a vast majority of LF users are using V700, 750, 800 or 850 Epson machines. May be a professional would prefer another machine, with solid construction an some limited better performance.

Some negatives requires a drum scanning, for some you won't notice if it comes from a drum scanner or a flatbed.


I your scanner expects to illuminate a reflective target (a sheet of paper for instance) it has its own lamp. What will prevent the lamp from shining ?

The scanner has to be hacked. Once I did that, I disassembled the illuminator, I placed it outside the scanner, I prolonged cable to the illuminator, so scanner hardware did not notice anything. The illuminator had to be connected (ouside) if not hardware was not to work, saying "error".

Still very poor results because stray light.

[bizarrius]

i just spend 1000 euros on my first LF camera. it will be a while until i save up to get a proper scanner i am afraid. just looking for ways to scan and evaluate my LF work since i am just starting.
before you say i use a digital camera, i dont have one. i only have an iphone7 its the most digital thing i have.
is epson the only way to go? the Epson V550 costs 300 euros in cyprus and the next choice is the Canon9000 for 250 euros
i live in the most backwards walking country where the only lab that develops film here is a 30 minute drive to the next city and every lab in my town that develops film only turns their lab machine on once every 2 weeks IF they have enough film to develop and their work is the worse i have ever seen in my life (full of spots, dust, finger prints and scratches) and thats for 35mm and 120 film ONLY. they laugh at me when i ask for a 4x5 develop. one lab has a nuritsu lab but doesn't scan anything else than 35mm because he doesn't have the masks for anything else.
when i ask for anything film they say: "get a nikon D800 its shoots 30fps nobody shoots film anymore". (exact words)
Last time i saw an epson 700 available in my country it had a tag of 1100 euros.
rant over.

[Pere Casals]

i just spend 1000 euros on my first LF camera. it will be a while until i save up to get a proper scanner i am afraid. just looking for ways to scan and evaluate my LF work since i am just starting.
before you say i use a digital camera, i dont have one. i only have an iphone7 its the most digital thing i have.
is epson the only way to go? the Epson V550 costs 300 euros in cyprus and the next choice is the Canon9000 for 250 euros
i live in the most backwards walking country where the only lab that develops film here is a 30 minute drive to the next city and every lab in my town that develops film only turns their lab machine on once every 2 weeks IF they have enough film to develop and their work is the worse i have ever seen in my life (full of spots, dust, finger prints and scratches) and thats for 35mm and 120 film ONLY. they laugh at me when i ask for a 4x5 develop. one lab has a nuritsu lab but doesn't scan anything else than 35mm because he doesn't have the masks for anything else.
when i ask for anything film they say: "get a nikon D800 its shoots 30fps nobody shoots film anymore". (exact words)
Last time i saw an epson 700 available in my country it had a tag of 1100 euros.
rant over.


First I'd say to you: you'll have to overcome severe difficulties, but don't give up, there is a reward in this adventure.

V800, ebay new, from germany is €550 + shipping €25.

I first bought a V500, I was scanning overlaping strips of the negative, the Photomerge feature of photoshop works very well, you won't notice it's the merging of two or three strips.

>>> Used Epson Perfection V500 Photo Flatbed Color Scanner some €100 with shipping, today at ebay.


You have other choices: make contact copy on film, you'll get a magnificient slide you can view in the light table, explore it with a x20 magnifier.


make contact copy on paper, also take a x20 magnifier to explore fine detail.


So... a suggestion: make contact copy of the sheet (emulsion side touching emulsion side), save money for the V800 new.


I've recently overcomed your present dificulties, so feel free to ask me, even by private message about any difficulty you have, regards.

Let me show you what is LF for me in order to give you a push:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/24852468435/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/32535835184/in/dateposted-public/

Regards

PD: Sorry, you don't need a push... you have a nice shot there...

Just get the V800 when you can...

163083

[bizarrius]

thank you very much for your kind words. the thing is i don't need THE BEST quality i can get. i just want something to scan my negatives so i know that i'm doing well on learning my camera. i think the epson V500 does not scan on its whole surface like the V700. so i wont be able to scan 4x5 with it.
is the HP scanjet G4050 a good choice? i know it scans on the whole surface (it can even scan a whole 35mm film in 1 batch)

[Pere Casals]

thank you very much for your kind words. the thing is i don't need THE BEST quality i can get. i just want something to scan my negatives so i know that i'm doing well on learning my camera. i think the epson V500 does not scan on its whole surface like the V700. so i wont be able to scan 4x5 with it.
is the a good choice? i know it scans on the whole surface (it can even scan a whole 35mm film in 1 batch)

HP Scanjet G4050 is a better choice than V500 as it makes 4x5 directly.

IMHO Scanjet G4050 inferior than V800.

Scanjet G4050 had a measured density range of 2.87D and a measured optical resolution of 1000-1300dpi. (hardware resolution doesn't matter a lot)

V800 will deliver true optical 2300-2800 dpi depending on the direction, and using multiexposure software feature (purchased apart in the V800 case, not with V850) the Epson will go well further in deep densities, useful for provia/velvia.

Portra is very easy to scan, and with 4x5 you'll have more pixels than you may need. Portra was reengineered long ago to be easily scanned in digital minilabs.

I think that for the moment a used G4050 can be a very good choice for you. I you are to buy it new better to go to the V800, that will be your target in the future.

[Pere Casals]

.


Let me also recommend you something like this air purifier, honeywell hap-16200e to get rid of room dust while scanning, start it a bit before.

[Peter De Smidt]

Demetris,

Do you have a digital camera? If so, which one?

[bizarrius]

HP Scanjet G4050 is a better choice than V500 as it makes 4x5 directly.

IMHO Scanjet G4050 inferior than V800.

Scanjet G4050 had a measured density range of 2.87D and a measured optical resolution of 1000-1300dpi. (hardware resolution doesn't matter a lot)

V800 will deliver true optical 2300-2800 dpi depending on the direction, and using multiexposure software feature (purchased apart in the V800 case, not with V850) the Epson will go well further in deep densities, useful for provia/velvia.

Portra is very easy to scan, and with 4x5 you'll have more pixels than you may need. Portra was reengineered long ago to be easily scanned in digital minilabs.

I think that for the moment a used G4050 can be a very good choice for you. I you are to buy it new better to go to the V800, that will be your target in the future.

Thank you very much for all your help :) i will probably go for a used G4050 until i see what i can do for an epson V800 +
how about the canon 9000? it doesn't cover the whole surface either right? which are my options in general?



Demetris,

Do you have a digital camera? If so, which one?

As i mentioned before, the only digital camera i have is the iphone7. i might be able to borrow some canon from a friend or something but that isn't a solution and i would nevr buy a DSLR just to scan my negatives :/

[Peter De Smidt]

Right. Sorry that I missed that.

[Jim Jones]

Many years ago I tried scanning negatives on a cheap flatbed with an improvised diffused light source, and the results were very poor. I knew it would have helped to disable the internal light source, but not help enough.

[Peter De Smidt]

I used a Canon 9950, if I remember rightly, quite awhile ago. It was on par with the Epsons of the time.

[Pere Casals]

Thank you very much for all your help :) i will probably go for a used G4050 until i see what i can do for an epson V800 +
how about the canon 9000? it doesn't cover the whole surface either right? which are my options in general?


Anyway a used G4050 is for 25€ in Barcelona (Wallapop listed)

163117


The Canon 9000 is also for 120, no 4x5, back illuminator has some 6cm


You even can buy a Ryanair air ticket and spend a weekend to shot Sagrada Familia cathedral :)

[bizarrius]

Theres a G4050 for sale on ebay for 80 euros inc shipping that is refurbished but i still don't know if i can trust a scanner sale on the internet. these things are sensitive.
also how would i be able to buy that from wallapop if i wanted? isn't that local sales only?

thanks

[Pere Casals]

Theres a G4050 for sale on ebay for 80 euros inc shipping that is refurbished but i still don't know if i can trust a scanner sale on the internet. these things are sensitive.
also how would i be able to buy that from wallapop if i wanted? isn't that local sales only?

thanks

The Wallapop €25 offer is mostly intended to local market, pick and go. Often sellers are not prepared to ship that, one should ask them.


Ebay has important advantages. READ very well ALL, twice or three times. Consider positive votes of the seller, 99,6% (or 98%) to 100% of positives is what you need, read very well what other customers say of the seller.

A neutral or a negative vote is very painful for a seller that needs to mantain reputation, see what happened with negative votes, how the seller reacted, and if the negative is justified or not.

If you pay with Paypal the payment to the seller is delayed some weeks, in case you are not satisfied you can retain the payment until the problem is arranged.


If the unit you were considering is the Poland's one, it has 14 days return policy, so you can return it if you don't like it, and seller has fair 100% customer satisfaction, so you only risk shipping.

IMHO, go for it... and enjoy !


Here you have a G4050 Flickr group https://www.flickr.com/groups/1296476@N24/pool/

[Pere Casals]

I used a Canon 9950, if I remember rightly, quite awhile ago. It was on par with the Epsons of the time.

Hello Peter,

Canon 9950, it is on par with some lower Epsons of the time, but IMHO very far from V700 range, or from its direct predecessor. Still a good scanninst can have very good results with it, sure, for example with MF/LF color negative film that's intrinsically lowres and easy to scan because big color clouds by film engineering, and moderate density. Also MF/LF size makes optical performance less a concern for common enlargements.

IMHO 9950 would be less suitable for 135, in special for some films. (like G4050)

Regards.

[Peter De Smidt]

Regarding 35mm, it depends on what you're scanning. With grainy film, the 9950 was significantly better than a Nikon Coolscan V. With fine grain film the Nikon easily out-performed the Canon. I had both. The V700 is much newer than a 9950.

[Pere Casals]

Regarding 35mm, it depends on what you're scanning. With grainy film, the 9950 was significantly better than a Nikon Coolscan V. With fine grain film the Nikon easily out-performed the Canon. I had both. The V700 is much newer than a 9950.

Well, IMHO "better" a bit may also depend on what one wants, in LF grain is mostly a nuisance, while with MF/135 for some it is a major aesthetic tool, for some it's also nuisance. Also film grain depends a lot on how Photoshop is used. JPEG + bad image resize habits can destroy all.

IMHO we can do both, we can sharpen grain in PS (using proper sharpening radius) or we can defocus grain. To me a bit like in the old times: developer solvent effect could be substituted by slight defocus in enlarger. In color print film IMHO the negative sampling density of Frontiers is near the ideal one. Color negative film was reengineered to perform optimally with standard digital minilabs, rather than with enlargers.




The V700 is much newer than a 9950.

The V700 is c. 2006, just when C9950 was to be discontinued I think, by Canon 9950 era there was the Epson 4990, that's somewhat close to V700 performance. http://www.kenrockwell.com/epson/4990.htm

[bizarrius]

right now i borrowed a canon 1100D and trying to "scan" some 6x45 i have here and making tests. i will look for an HP and time will tell if i'll go for the epson any time soon.
for my 35mm i have a minolta dimage4 that i would sell in a moment. its not that i don't like it. i just don't shoot 35mm anymore. :/
any tips for taking pictures of my negatives?

[bizarrius]

and my first scanned 120 with a dslr !

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSJifA8jAND/?taken-by=bizarrius.jpeg

:D

[Andrew O'Neill]

http://lifehacker.com/5823902/digitize-your-slides-and-negatives-on-the-cheap-with-a-flatbed-scanner-and-a-piece-of-paper

[Tim Meisburger]

I saw this thread, and my old epson 4870 has given up the ghost, so I went ahead and bought one of those G4050 off ebay for $100. The guy said it has only been used once, by his mom, who could not figure out how to use it. Hope I can! If it is good enough for web use, that is fine for me, as I do use the scanner more as a digital contact print, rather than as a source for a final print.

[Pere Casals]

and my first scanned 120 with a dslr !

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSJifA8jAND/?taken-by=bizarrius.jpeg

:D

Congratulations ! Nice Start !!