DIY Bellows Idea - Feedback please

[basiltahan]

Is there any reason that bellows need to be folded?

Could bellows be made by connecting the front and rear standards with rods or cables and have the bellows "draped" around them? Like a tube? Sock? Thing?

Have you ever seen bellow that were not folded?

[Len Middleton]

Bag bellows are not folded, yet are self-supporting over their relatively short length.

Also one can make a simple camera with two open end boxes with one sliding inside the other.

What you are proposing could be done, the trick would be the adjustment of the supports as you change length during focusing.

[Pfsor]

I have done it. The rods were telescopic antennas (like those used on cars). The disadvantage is that the rods add way too much of weight (in comparison to paper bellows) and the folds must be hold not to penetrate to the inside of the bellows. Can be done but normal bellows have less weight and look much much better. You will soon find that the traditional bellows is irreplaceable.

[LabRat]

If you wish to see a model of what might work as a concept, look at those Japanese & Chinese paper lanterns... They collapse, and also have different support forms inside... (But they often require a little twist to fully open, so that might complicate the bellows/camera design...)

But if there is a more efficient form than traditional bellows, makers would have used them long ago, but what has stood the test of time is the styles we have seen then and now... Survival of the fittest of the (design) evolution...

Steve K

[David Lobato]

I was recently thinking of an idea similar to the OP's. But then realized movements will be limited compared to a pleated bellows.

[Bob Salomon]

Is there any reason that bellows need to be folded?

Could bellows be made by connecting the front and rear standards with rods or cables and have the bellows "draped" around them? Like a tube? Sock? Thing?

Have you ever seen bellow that were not folded?

A Linhof bag bellows has a front and rear frame attached to the bag and a spring support in the middle of the bag to maintain shape and prevent sagging.

[basiltahan]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed.

I have no doubt that the folder bellow is most probably the most efficient. Through Darwinian logic, it is most likely the best solution.

The problem with it as a DIY solution is that it is not simplistic. Possible, but the time it takes to learn and successfully make one might cost more than buying one, if the size can be found.

A few interesting ideas from above (Thank you). Chinese lantern design. With supports along its length, it might work. The extendable antennae idea. If weight is the only drawback, then a studio setting might still be ok.

Again, sincere thanks. I love this place!

[Dan Fromm]

OP, I made a bellows that isn't pleated or folded or anything like that.

A bag bellows, made of two 10" square sheets of 1 mm neoprene fabric as is used in making wet suits. The edges are glued and sewn. The material is dense enough but I leave the dark slide out for as little time as possible.

Cutouts in the sheets' centers, glued to to bellows frames. I couldn't get real plastic bellows frames for my camera so sacrificed two lens boards.

The bellows extends ~ 100 mm, which is slightly more than I need. One made of 12" squares would give a bit more extension. This almost certainly isn't what you need.

[jp]

Also just an idea here... You could use the design of a Chinese finger trap and cover it with stretchy or slippery light tight fabric which didn't exist a hundred years ago.
This design can compress and stretch quite a bit, particularly if it does not need finger gripping powers. I've used some "cable pulling grips" for their intended purpose which change shape very nicely to grip different cables. It could be made of composites (which can be flexible in one direction and stiff in another) or thin stiff wire and be much more sparse than the gripping designs.

http://i0.wp.com/www.wire-mesh-grip.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/maxresdefault.jpg is one I found on google image search big enough for a camera, but probably too stiff.

[bobbotron]

What about tying two cords near the top of the front... standard (?), and have them exit through the rear standard with a sufficient light trap. Adjust your standard, then pull the two cords tight enough to pop up the bellows cloth.

[basiltahan]

This is my favorite idea. Have you seen it done? I was thinking four cables, but the bottom can sag all it wants. Could the cables even be threaded through loops on the outside of the curtain? Like a curtain rod in a window?

What I'd like to build is front and rear standards that slide along a table for a ULF wetplate camera..



What about tying two cords near the top of the front... standard (?), and have them exit through the rear standard with a sufficient light trap. Adjust your standard, then pull the two cords tight enough to pop up the bellows cloth.

[Pfsor]

This is my favorite idea. Have you seen it done? I was thinking four cables, but the bottom can sag all it wants. Could the cables even be threaded through loops on the outside of the curtain? Like a curtain rod in a window?



When you come to your senses do yourself a favour and contact http://www.custombellows.co.uk/

[jim10219]

This is my favorite idea. Have you seen it done? I was thinking four cables, but the bottom can sag all it wants. Could the cables even be threaded through loops on the outside of the curtain? Like a curtain rod in a window?

What I'd like to build is front and rear standards that slide along a table for a ULF wetplate camera..

I don't see why that wouldn't work. You could add some eyelets, pulleys, or something with holes in it to thread the cables along the tops of the standards. You might think about tying them tight at one end, and put a heavy weight on the other. That would keep the cable tight. Or you could come up with some other kind of spring loaded tensioning device. Perhaps something similar to a tape measure or vacuum cleaner power cable. It'd be wise to come up with some kind of method of keeping the bellows from drooping so you can focus without having to worry about the bellows falling in the way. Then just hang the bellows like a shower curtain. You'll want to hang them a good bit above the standards to allow them some room to droop before they fall into the path of light. The hard part will be coming up with a way to attach the bellows to the rings that your run the cable through. You don't want to puncture the fabric if you don't have to, cause then you'll have a spot for light to leak through. Also, hanging them from rings should give the bellows some pleats that should knock down reflections from any stray or unwanted light.

[el french]

Use air pressure to inflate a double walled tube.

[Tim Meisburger]

Basil, I think a sliding box is probably a lot easier to make, if it is just going to sit on a table.

[John Layton]

I keep coming back to this thread...thinking I can contribute something. Hmmm...my first DIY camera was an 11x14 monster featuring a nesting-box bellows. Weighed a ton and the only tripod that would work was the old Quickset (anything but!) "Gibralter," which would easily double as a building jack.

But the cloth and retractable line idea...I do seem to remember a very small device - like a pocket clip which looked and behaved like a very small retractable tape measure to keep pens and such "organized" (or whatever). At any rate, a couple of these attached to an upper part of a front or rear standard, to hold blackout cloth out of the way...hmmm - I can see problems with this.

Actually, a Home Depot 3-mil black contractor's bag, wrapped around the standards "whole" to get the full 6-mils of thickness, and wrapped loosely at first to allow for movements/adjustments then secured with black tape to block out light...would work in a jiffy!

[JoeV]

Some years ago I made an experimental non-tapered bellows from stiff black craft paper (a sheet large enough for the four sides to be cut in one piece), where all the edges were reinforced using 1" wide black gaffers tape. After cutting out the one-piece pattern I then scored all the fold lines using a ballpoint pen before carefully creasing all the folds. Then I applied the 1" wide black gaffers tape to all the creases; the creases pointing outwards had the tape applied to the outside, while the creases pointing inwards had the tape applied to the inside. After all the creases were taped the two ends of the pattern (on the underside of the bellows) were joined with gaffers tape to complete the bellows.

The black paper is stiff enough so that it doesn't require stiffeners to be installed in each section, like you have to do with cloth bellows; while the light-tight cloth gaffers tape provides strength, flexibility and durability. This bellows is still functional to this day, and the tape has not yet come lose from the paper.

The only downside I can see from this design is that the paper isn't water-resistant, so you wouldn't want to get it wet.

~Joe

[Mark Sawyer]

I think the best solution would be a long bag bellows, but maybe with a bunch of cardboard strips as stiffeners so it wouldn't sag. You could arrange them like an accordion's pleats. It sounds crazy, but it just might work...

[Lachlan 717]

I've wondered about a "Slinky" style arrangement where something like 2mm neoprene covers a concertinaring helix.

[Fr. Mark]

Having made a non-tapering bellows about 11" square by about 48" long (I wanted magnification on 8x10 with an 18" lens, I know, crazy), it is tedious, hard to do well and the final minimal thickness was not something I'm proud of either, though. The project was predicated on absolute minimal expense. I used the opaque curtain material they sell at fabric shops---maximal dimension is 54" w/o seam in one direction by whatever length the roll is the other. It seems to be light proof in my use, though I've not done any rigorous testing for IR or even true opacity, honestly. It works to make pictures so far using about 100 speed film.

I've thought about making a bag bellows for this behemoth of an 8x10 to use shorter lenses and planned to follow the Sinar design more/less.

I've also thought through most of the ideas on this thread, mainly for studio cameras or ULF where super long lenses v. the size of the film aren't so easy an option. I'd thought that bungee cord material would put too much stress on the system, nesting tubes are too fragile and fussy and hard to source and have limited minimal length adjustment.

I tend to think that the best option would be something sort of like a bag bellows with tabs built in to take lengths of string/cord from front to rear standard and either tie off the string or use a spring loaded stopper like was typical on draw string bags back in the 70-80's when I did more camping.

[bobbotron]

This is my favorite idea. Have you seen it done? I was thinking four cables, but the bottom can sag all it wants. Could the cables even be threaded through loops on the outside of the curtain? Like a curtain rod in a window?

What I'd like to build is front and rear standards that slide along a table for a ULF wetplate camera..

I haven't tried it, but I feel relatively confident it would work well. I might try it if I try to make another wide angle 4x5 camera.

[SergeiR]

Oh for... Now you made me pull out hat of DIY again.

So think about it like this.
How big is your camera? How much extension you WILL need (or how much is allowed).
All you looking for is sort of "roof" between rear and front that you can drape over (think blackout curtains) - roof won't let it sag.
Sliding roof can be made out of anything , from your regular cabinet hardware sliders to small collapsible ladder to old telescopic antenna rods (or old tripods).
You just need to be able to hook end of rods to standards and have enough fabric to go over and under (and some extra to do tucking & etc.

PS: i done that as experiment couple years ago with simple blackout curtain material for Joans Fabrics & broken metal tripod (paid like 5$ for it on camera swap meet and used it a while till it broke down and got used for this ).

[Michael Roberts]

This link illustrates JoeV's idea of using card stock and tape: http://www.instructables.com/id/bellows-for-large-format-camera/

If you want to use two or four telescoping rods inside a bag bellows, how about picking up some cheap used trekking poles from a thrift store?

[Paul Kinzer]

I made my own bag bellows out of a film changing bag. I got a 4x5 Toyo camera very cheaply because its bellows were trashed. I didn't want to spend more money on new bellows than I had on the camera, so I bought a used changing bag. It was mostly just two sheets of opaque black cloth sewn together, with opaque gloves sewn into the seams. I assume that's how most are made. I just cut off the gloves and sewed together the holes that left behind. Then I cut holes in each of the square sides of the changing bag that were the right size for the frames from the ruined set of bellows, and then clamped the edges of the holes within the two pieces that made up the frames. The seams that were originally the edge of the bag provide enough structural support that my bag bellows out of a bag don't sag into the light cone. I'm not sure if that will be any help to the OP, but someone might find it useful. I got a view camera out of it for less than $50 total cost.