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Drew Bedo
14-Mar-2017, 08:32
Extreme Flange Removal

In the 1990s I picked up ten oscilloscope cameras from a surplus eletronics warehouse for about $5 each. They each had a 75mm/f i.9 "Oscillo-Paragon" in a Wollensak shutter. I salvaged these lenses and discarded the rest of the camera housings as junk.

Now as someone here is sure to (quickly) point out, these lenses are not really suited to LF photography. They do not cover more than 6cm x 6cm at infinity. Many folks say they are not sharp, and the shutters on my examples have no external threads for a mounting ring. I have used them for macro work at long extension covering both 4x5 and 8x10. With this said, please let's not go back and forth over the recognized shortcomings and limitations of these lenses.

The lenses came out of the camera housings without trouble except for the heavy aluminum flanges that screwed onto both the front and rear lens barrels. I tried everything to get these flanges off; heavy torque acompanied by heat and solvents. Nothing worked.

If the lenses themselves were unusable, at least there were 10 working shutters. With only the $50 to lose there was one last option. I went to a local gunsmith and described the situation. He was reluctant to do anything, but I managed to convince him that we should try one and if it was destroyed I was OK with that.

So the lens cells were unscrewed from one shutter and chucked up in his lathe. He carefully milled off the flanges one by one and by golly it worked! Each came off without incident . . .not a scratch. What-do-you-know?

Sold off most of them at the old Houston Camera show one weekend for ~$40 each and kept two for me.

Still have them.

Dan Fromm
14-Mar-2017, 09:17
Hmm. Oscillo-Paragons? Ilex trade name. Wollensak shutter? Did you mean Oscillo-Raptars?

I have a 75/1.9 Oscillo-Raptar in what I think is an Alphax #3 on my desk. The shutter is threaded at the rear for mounting. Front cell comes out easily, rear cell is in (that's what it looks like, I could be wrong) a flange that screws on the rear mount threads. It won't come off.

Were you thinking of 'scope camera Oscillo Paragons in Ilex #3s. I've had several, none with externally threaded rear tubes.

IanG
14-Mar-2017, 09:45
Hmm. Oscillo-Paragons? Ilex trade name. Wollensak shutter? Did you mean Oscillo-Raptars?

I have a 75/1.9 Oscillo-Raptar in what I think is an Alphax #3 on my desk. The shutter is threaded at the rear for mounting. Front cell comes out easily, rear cell is in (that's what it looks like, I could be wrong) a flange that screws on the rear mount threads. It won't come off.

Were you thinking of 'scope camera Oscillo Paragons in Ilex #3s. I've had several, none with externally threaded rear tubes.

I have one 75mm f1.9 Oscillo-Raptar, I bought it just for the Alphax #3 shutter, I can't remember if there was a flange but I think maybe it did - I had another Alphax #3, from memory I think there was a small lock screw and the additional piece unscrews.

They are useless lenses, I saw one sold as a fast lens for MF for 125 ($152) at a Camera Fair before Christmas by a reputable trade seller who should have known better.

However useful shutters if only for parts, Alphax #3 shutters are easy to work on.

Ian

Drew Bedo
14-Mar-2017, 12:28
Well the post was intended to be whimsical, nostalgic and humorous.


OK . . .Dug it out and I am holding it in my left hand.

Lens is an Oscillo Paragon by Ilex in Ilex shutter. The shutter itself has NO threads on the rear of the shutter body, The lens cells each have a heavy brass barel with external (male) threads that extend from the rim all the way back to the shutter.

The optical merits of these lenses is widely recognized as sub-optima— to bad.


I paid $5 each for them and sold them at $40 for the shutters (T, B to 1/100 with bi-p[ole synch).

The unique thing was how difficult it was to get the mounting flanges off of the front and rear lens barrels. Not often get a gunsmith to do amchine work on optical gear with a lathe.

IanG
15-Mar-2017, 07:26
Lens is an Oscillo Paragon by Ilex in Ilex shutter. The shutter itself has NO threads on the rear of the shutter body,

That's like one Alphax #3 I bought, however there's a chrome or nickel plated insert on the rea of the shutter body and that can usually be removed to reveal the normal thread.

Ian

Dan Fromm
15-Mar-2017, 07:50
Ian, 'scope camera Ilex 3s don't have hidden external threading at the rear, they have none. They don't need it because of they way they're mounted in the cameras, so don't have it.

I have one such that I use for front-mounting my three f/14 Perigraphes. SKGrimes cut off the rear tube, attached the shutter to a board with small screws that go through the board and into holes (drilled and tapped by SKG) in the rear of the shutter body. I had them do this work so that the shutter's rear tube wouldn't vignette the 60.

IanG
15-Mar-2017, 08:35
Ian, 'scope camera Ilex 3s don't have hidden external threading at the rear, they have none. They don't need it because of they way they're mounted in the cameras, so don't have it.

I have one such that I use for front-mounting my three f/14 Perigraphes. SKGrimes cut off the rear tube, attached the shutter to a board with small screws that go through the board and into holes (drilled and tapped by SKG) in the rear of the shutter body. I had them do this work so that the shutter's rear tube wouldn't vignette the 60.

My mistake initially Drew said it was a Wollensack Alphax #3 shutter, I missed the later bit where he said an Illex shutter.

Ian

Jody_S
15-Mar-2017, 18:45
I've often considered using a lathe to remove problematic lens cells, mounting them in the chuck (with something protective), then manually rotating the chuck against either a rubber strap wrench or oil filter remover or something of that nature to get things moving. So far I haven't had the courage to try, because the lenses I'm having issues with are worth a few $. And after worrying them a bit in the shop, I usually manage to get them moving. But the lathe chuck seems less likely to damage a brass surface than the common suggestion around these parts, a SS clamp with a worm drive tightening screw to be tapped with a hammer.

Drew Bedo
16-Mar-2017, 06:16
Jody: Please carefully consider what you do to remove the lens cells. The lenses that went into a gunsmith's lathe are not particularly valuable or rare. Lenses just like these are available on e-Bay right now, with the same flanges screwed on and cemented tight.

I had ten of them and my tiotal financial exposure was $5 EACH. The lens cells unscrewed from the body of the shutter easily by hand. I convinced him that if one lens was ruined by cutting off the flanges screwed to the lens barrels, I would not hold him responsible or at fault.

You may have a different situation. It might be best to have this problem addressed by professionals such as SK Grimes or others.

Drew Bedo
16-Mar-2017, 06:38
My mistake initially Drew said it was a Wollensack Alphax #3 shutter, I missed the later bit where he said an Illex shutter.

Ian

Yeah, sorry about that. After 25 years or so the details sort of faded. Back then, I was working with medical equipment that had these oscilloscope cameras for capturing an image from a fleeting CRT to hard copy (either Polaroid or film) Most were by Tektronix but other brands too. The lenses that I ran across were either the Oscillo-Rapar in a Alphax shutter (Wollensak) or the Oscillo-Paragon in an Ilex shutter (Ilex). All were 3-inch/f-1.9.

I had fun with them, sold off most of them min the 1990s at the camera shows for the shutters at $50 or less, and kept these two from a batch of ten identical Paragons. They make a circular image ~ 6cm across on 4x5 film. They are bulky and heavy. The only thing attractive about them is the fast-glass f/1.9 aperture.

Dan Fromm
16-Mar-2017, 07:31
The only thing attractive about them is the fast-glass f/1.9 aperture.

All of the 3"/1.9 'scope camera lenses I've bought have been in shutters with restricted apertures. None of the shutters' diaphragms opened as wide as those of standard Alphax and Ilex #3s. Not necessarily a problem and, since I haven't seen every 3"/1.9 'scope camera lens ever made, possibly not universal.

What you really want is the uncommon ones with f/1.4 lenses.

IanG
16-Mar-2017, 08:24
That's strange Dan, the Oscillo-Raptar I bought last year in an Alphax #3 has no restrictions to the aperture, I've actually fitter a set of 6" Turner Reich cells and need to attach the old Betax aperture scale.

My Dallmeyer 90mm f1.9 Oscilloscope lens had a normal Prontor Press #1 shutter, again no restrictions,

Ian