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shoshin
17-Feb-2017, 02:38
Hi folks,

I would like to replace the original Graflok-Back on my Pacemaker Speed Graphic with a Cambo Revolving back.
Has anyone here already done this?

At the moment I am not able to remove the old back although I removed 7 screws. Maybe it is glued to the body?

I would appreciate any kind of help :-)
Thanks in advance
Shoshin

EdSawyer
17-Feb-2017, 07:40
It's not glued, just pry it a little bit. Be aware the rangefinder will not be calibrated after this, since the Cambo back is thicker.

RichSBV
17-Feb-2017, 10:46
and; why ruin a good Speed??

Bob Salomon
17-Feb-2017, 13:15
and; why ruin a good Speed??

What about the Cambo?

Why not just find a Linhof Technika IV, V or Master or a Wista RF and then you would have a revolving back on a RF camera along with more front movements plus back movements and then sell your Speed and Cambo?

Lou Baleur
17-Feb-2017, 13:26
don't do it! the revolving won't work because the opening is not a square but a "landscape orientation" rectangle. If you revolve the back, you will get a 4" x 4" square image!

Louis Pacilla
17-Feb-2017, 13:52
What about the Cambo?

Why not just find a Linhof Technika IV, V or Master or a Wista RF and then you would have a revolving back on a RF camera along with more front movements plus back movements and then sell your Speed and Cambo?

My guess would be the obvious thing that all the above are missing, a focal plain shutter for when using a fast 7" barrel lens and shooting it wide open.:rolleyes:

To the OP- If you really want to do yourself a favor just stick with the Graflex Graflok back.

Bob Salomon
17-Feb-2017, 14:48
My guess would be the obvious thing that all the above are missing, a focal plain shutter for when using a fast 7" barrel lens and shooting it wide open.:rolleyes:

To the OP- If you really want to do yourself a favor just stick with the Graflex Graflok back.

Or, if he was really lucky, find one of the old Linhof focal plane shutter attachments.

EdSawyer
17-Feb-2017, 16:42
Meridian is another choice for a field camera with movements, and rotating back. No focal plane shutter though.

shoshin
17-Feb-2017, 17:07
don't do it! the revolving won't work because the opening is not a square but a "landscape orientation" rectangle. If you revolve the back, you will get a 4" x 4" square image!

Well but thats not a problem for me. The main reason is that I want to use the Cambo T-20 Viewer. I do not have to rotate the back.


and; why ruin a good Speed??

Why do you think I am ruining the Speed Graphic?


It's not glued, just pry it a little bit. Be aware the rangefinder will not be calibrated after this, since the Cambo back is thicker.

Thank you! I do not need the Rangefinder :-)


My guess would be the obvious thing that all the above are missing, a focal plain shutter for when using a fast 7" barrel lens and shooting it wide open.:rolleyes:

To the OP- If you really want to do yourself a favor just stick with the Graflex Graflok back.

Exactly. But the Cambo-Back is still a Graflok-Back. So I do not loose anything. And I can always go back. it's just 7 screws.

Dan Fromm
17-Feb-2017, 17:38
Interesting. A Cambo back is essentially a modified Cambo lens board, attaches to the standard's function carrier exactly as a lens board does. Do you intend to drill and countersink holes in y'r Cambo back?

EdSawyer
18-Feb-2017, 07:58
If you don't need to rotate the back, there's cheaper/lighter non-rotating Cambo backs you could use. I have a couple spare ones I could part with.

shoshin
18-Feb-2017, 10:16
If you don't need to rotate the back, there's cheaper/lighter non-rotating Cambo backs you could use. I have a couple spare ones I could part with.

Thank you, but I have tried some Cambo-Backs. The Problem is usually, that the groundglass does not match the plane of the film.
So at the moment it is the easiest and cheapest solution for me, to use the cambo-back that I have got.

Dan Fromm
18-Feb-2017, 10:21
They all have the same register.

Darkroom317
19-Feb-2017, 09:35
My understanding is that you want to be able to use the reflex hood.

If that is the case you should contact David Burnett. He uses a Speed Graphic with the Cambo reflex hood. Ask him how he did it

http://blog.photoshelter.com/2010/07/in-the-bag-with-photographer-david-burnett/

Here is his contact info: http://www.davidburnett.com/content.html?page=9

shoshin
19-Feb-2017, 13:17
My understanding is that you want to be able to use the reflex hood.

If that is the case you should contact David Burnett. He uses a Speed Graphic with the Cambo reflex hood. Ask him how he did it

http://blog.photoshelter.com/2010/07/in-the-bag-with-photographer-david-burnett/

Here is his contact info: http://www.davidburnett.com/content.html?page=9

You are right. Thats what I want to.
I had contact with David on Facebook, he recommended me the Cambo T-20.

Kuzano
20-Feb-2017, 20:50
Meridian is another choice for a field camera with movements, and rotating back. No focal plane shutter though.

Find a Graflex Super Speed. Built for what you want to do. Square bellows at the body. Correct thickness at back. More movements up front, plus some movement mods easily made on the front standards. Rangefinder if working will be correct for the camera presuming correct cams for lenses.

The Super is slightly heavier, but it Already IS THE CAMERA YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE. Keep your crown stock for the purists.

There are two pages on Steven Gandy's CameraQuest site that cover the mods you can make on the Super Graphic. Trust me, it's the camera you want.

shoshin
21-Feb-2017, 07:13
Find a Graflex Super Speed. Built for what you want to do. Square bellows at the body. Correct thickness at back. More movements up front, plus some movement mods easily made on the front standards. Rangefinder if working will be correct for the camera presuming correct cams for lenses.

The Super is slightly heavier, but it Already IS THE CAMERA YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE. Keep your crown stock for the purists.

There are two pages on Steven Gandy's CameraQuest site that cover the mods you can make on the Super Graphic. Trust me, it's the camera you want.

It sure isn't because what I need is the Focal Plane Shutter for the Aero Ektar.

AtlantaTerry
22-Feb-2017, 07:02
I am not sure about this, but I believe people have adapted the Polaroid MP3/4 copy camera's reflex finder to be used on stock Speed Graphic cameras.

BTW, I have a Cambo monorail camera and one of their reflex finders. It works well for horizontal compositions BUT is awkward for verticals because it is a mirror, not a prism therefore the images are reversed so left is right and right is left. For my portrait work, this proved to be more difficult to use rather than just the ground glass by itself.

shoshin
3-Mar-2017, 14:33
I am not sure about this, but I believe people have adapted the Polaroid MP3/4 copy camera's reflex finder to be used on stock Speed Graphic cameras.

BTW, I have a Cambo monorail camera and one of their reflex finders. It works well for horizontal compositions BUT is awkward for verticals because it is a mirror, not a prism therefore the images are reversed so left is right and right is left. For my portrait work, this proved to be more difficult to use rather than just the ground glass by itself.

I had the Polaroid MP4 Viewer before. I didn't like it.
Reversed images are not a problem. I am used to it, because thats the way my RZ67 is working.

AtlantaTerry
3-Mar-2017, 18:26
I had the Polaroid MP4 Viewer before. I didn't like it.
Reversed images are not a problem. I am used to it, because thats the way my RZ67 is working.

Actually, it is worse. I have an RB-67 so am used to reversed images too. The thing about our Mamiya cameras is that you are working from the top - you rotate the back for horizonals or verticals.

As an experiment, try this: turn your RZ67 on it's side then try to focus and compose. That's something like what you will be working with when you have a reflex finder on your Graphic and it is turned vertically for a photo.

Dan Fromm
5-Mar-2017, 08:06
Ah! So this http://web.archive.org/web/20170305150514/http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x5-Pacemaker-Speed-Graphic-Aero-Ektar-lens-Rotating-Back-Filters-Hood-More-/272577617608 is how its done.

shoshin
5-Mar-2017, 10:29
Ah! So this http://web.archive.org/web/20170305150514/http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x5-Pacemaker-Speed-Graphic-Aero-Ektar-lens-Rotating-Back-Filters-Hood-More-/272577617608 is how its done.

Exactly. Finished my work yesterday and did some testshoots today. Works fine :D.

Sorry for the bad photo:

162151

AtlantaTerry
5-Mar-2017, 19:17
Exactly. Finished my work yesterday and did some testshoots today. Works fine :D.

Sorry for the bad photo:

162151

OK, very nice. Have you tried to focus and compose a vertical composition?

shoshin
6-Mar-2017, 01:34
OK, very nice. Have you tried to focus and compose a vertical composition?

I did. Everything works fine. I can't see any vignetting when composing vertical.

Dan Fromm
6-Mar-2017, 05:41
OK, very nice. Have you tried to focus and compose a vertical composition?Terry, if my Baby Bertha (2x3 RB Ser. B hung behind a Cambo) catastrophe has any bearing on this he won't have vignetting problems with the back rotated to portrait orientation until the lens is longer than roughly twice normal.

IanG
6-Mar-2017, 09:11
I did. Everything works fine. I can't see any vignetting when composing vertical.

There was a similar thread a few weeks ago and the poster stated in vertical (portrait) mode he lost some of the top and bottom. I'm sure you will with a Speed graphic because of the housing for the shutter curtain -top and bottom.

I have actually tried this myself when I bought a Cambo rotating back a few years ago, it did clip the edges significantly, it's far easier just to hold the camera on its side - I do shoot with Speed Graphics occasionally hand held and it's not a problem.

Ian

shoshin
6-Mar-2017, 13:23
There was a similar thread a few weeks ago and the poster stated in vertical (portrait) mode he lost some of the top and bottom. I'm sure you will with a Speed graphic because of the housing for the shutter curtain -top and bottom.

I have actually tried this myself when I bought a Cambo rotating back a few years ago, it did clip the edges significantly, it's far easier just to hold the camera on its side - I do shoot with Speed Graphics occasionally hand held and it's not a problem.

Ian

Well it depends on the lens that you use. With the Aero Ektar there won't be any vignetting. I will upload some scans but it will take a few weeks because I have to finish my exams first.
But you can have a look at the graflex-facebook-group. There is a discussion about it and the members who use revolving backs from toyo or cambo will tell you the same as I do.

IanG
6-Mar-2017, 13:48
Well it depends on the lens that you use. With the Aero Ektar there won't be any vignetting. I will upload some scans but it will take a few weeks because I have to finish my exams first.
But you can have a look at the graflex-facebook-group. There is a discussion about it and the members who use revolving backs from toyo or cambo will tell you the same as I do.

There won't be any Vignetting because that's caused by too small an image circle, you will definitely get the top & bottom edges clipped in portrait mode although perhaps not with a WA lens.

In the previous thread I referred to the OP stated there would be no issues, I say no there would be, but after completion he reported there was. I've tried it there is and anyone with a Speed Graphic can take the back off and see why there is a problem shooting a full frame 5x4 portrait mode with a revolving back.

I'm not saying you can't use a revolving back on a Pacemaker Speed Graphic just that you can't get a full 5x negative in Portrait mode.

Ian

EdSawyer
6-Mar-2017, 13:57
Given that the back is further back than the stock location, there is probably enough image getting past the gate to illuminate the film in the vertical dimension. It won't be ideal, but might work, from the looks of it.

AtlantaTerry
6-Mar-2017, 21:40
Oh goodness no! I intended to say to turn the Graphic on it's side to create a vertical composition. Then try to use the reflex finder. At that point the eyepiece will be pointing to the side.

When I tried to create some vertical portraits with my 4x5" Cambo monorail that had a Cambo reflex finder attached to the back. The eyepiece of the reflex finder was now pointing to the side instead of pointing up. So when I tried to compose the portrait left was right and right was left, up was down and down was up. It was very difficult to use the finder so I simply removed it and used the ground glass in the classic way - with a dark cloth and loupe.

Dan Fromm
7-Mar-2017, 06:20
Terry, the monocular reflex finder-- that's what the OP has -- rotates . I use one on a Cambo with a reversible back. Cambo's binocular reflex finder doesn't rotate, but the body attaches to the mounting bracket in two positions 90 degrees apart. Just like a reversible back.

shoshin
7-Mar-2017, 07:41
There won't be any Vignetting because that's caused by too small an image circle, you will definitely get the top & bottom edges clipped in portrait mode although perhaps not with a WA lens.

In the previous thread I referred to the OP stated there would be no issues, I say no there would be, but after completion he reported there was. I've tried it there is and anyone with a Speed Graphic can take the back off and see why there is a problem shooting a full frame 5x4 portrait mode with a revolving back.

I'm not saying you can't use a revolving back on a Pacemaker Speed Graphic just that you can't get a full 5x negative in Portrait mode.

Ian

Well but I already did get a full 5x negative in portrait mode. And I am not the only one. But to be honest I am tired of having to explain it all the time.

shoshin
3-Apr-2017, 01:18
163390

As you can see, there is vignetting in the edges. But if I have the choice between mounting the heavy camera + Aero Ektar in portrait-orientation and between using the revolving-back with a bit of vignetting, I would always choose the latter.

Btw.: just a testshot on expired (1996) portra 160VC.

Paul Kinzer
3-Apr-2017, 18:14
The camera that Dan Fromm linked to in post 21 of this thread was put together by me. I've made about a dozen of them because people continued to want them. I do say in my ads that there might be some vignetting, but I agree with shoshin: the heavy Aero Ektar lens seems much more stable to me if the camera is in its proper position, with the bed on the bottom.

Paul Kinzer
3-Apr-2017, 18:22
I always used 3x4 Fuji FP-100c instant film to test them. It's nice to see that vignetting is not much of an issue, judging by shoshin's photos.

shoshin
5-Apr-2017, 04:15
I took some more photos during the last days and on most of them there is no vignetting. Maybe it was caused by the mamiya lenshood I used on the aero ektar.

Paul Kinzer
5-Apr-2017, 09:54
The shape of the vignetting suggests that to me; I would think that if it were the bellows it would not be so much more in the corners but across the whole bottom and top. But I'm hardly an expert.