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View Full Version : CL81/2509n vs. Expert Tanks



EdC
13-Feb-2017, 21:03
As I gear up towards having a functioning darkroom again, I discovered some brand new Jobo tanks tucked away on a shelf in the basement. (Don't ask.....) One of these is a 3006 tank, the other would be a 1520 tank with 1530 module. I didn't want to invest in a full blown processor at this time, so figured I would use a Beseler 8921 motorized unit for the time being to handle agitation, as an alternative to having to do this manually. In the meantime, a question came to mind. Would it make sense to get rid of the existing tanks and just switch to a 25XX series tank and make use of the CL81 and 2509n film reels? I'll be processing some 120 periodically, but will concentrate on 4x5 and 8x10. I've been doing some research on the CL81 and 2509n, and it appears that there were some uneven results with these when they were first introduced. Looking at the history of forum member comments, I have the impression that some improvements have been introduced in these so that it isn't much of an issue anymore. At any rate, I'd appreciate some commentary to help avoid spending time and money only to find out that I made the wrong choice.

Thanks,

Ed

AuditorOne
14-Feb-2017, 00:11
For me the 2509n is worth its weight in gold and works great. I would really hate to be without it.

I do have the CL81 and like it as well. Mine has worked as advertised though it is a bit tricky sometimes for me to get the film on the reel. I am sure that I would get better with more practice but I use my BTZS tubes more often than the CL81. The tubes are just so simple to load and work with that I find them to be much less hassle. I don't want to imply that the CL81 is a hassle, it really isn't, but there is just not much manual skill involved in loading a BTZS tube.

Of course, I still use trays and they are by far the easiest method, but the amount of chemicals needed in a tray are higher that of any of the other systems. But, obviously, if you need different developing times for different sheets then there really is not a better option, though the BTZS tubes do come pretty close.

Just the rambling thoughts of an amateur.

James Pierce
14-Feb-2017, 08:29
For 4x5 and 8x10 there are Expert drums (3005,3006,3010 etc) and then there is everything else. The CL81 works ok for 8x10, but it's tricky to load and you end up with marks on the edges of the film well past the rebate. The 2509n reels work ok if you have the film loader, but there is still a tendency to get extra edge development with many films. Unfortunately the expert drums and the processors which can run them are expensive, but if you're shooting any volume of 8x10 film then the whole caper is expensive !

Graham Patterson
14-Feb-2017, 09:37
The 3006 tank will do smaller sheets, but not 8x10. As long as you have the spirals for the 1520/30 I would stick to that for 120. If you get a 2500 series tank to do 120 you will have to get larger spirals as well. I think changing out your existing tanks will end up costing money, even before you add in the 8x10 capability.

So as long as your roller base of choice can handle the large diameter 3006 and the smaller diameter 1520/30, sit tight. Then you have to look for 8x10 processing options.

My Jobo CPE2 will not handle 3000 series tanks, so my line up is a 1520/30 combination for 120 and the odd 35mm, a 2509n for 4x5, and a 2830 print tank for 8x10. Granted the 2830 is not everyone's choice for 8x10, but it is working for me.

The 2509n reel in a small 2551 tank might be a little short for some roller bases. Though there have been some interesting DIY projects using motors and inline skate wheels posted over the past year that may be more adaptable.

EdC
15-Feb-2017, 20:30
The 3006 tank will do smaller sheets, but not 8x10. As long as you have the spirals for the 1520/30 I would stick to that for 120. If you get a 2500 series tank to do 120 you will have to get larger spirals as well. I think changing out your existing tanks will end up costing money, even before you add in the 8x10 capability.

So as long as your roller base of choice can handle the large diameter 3006 and the smaller diameter 1520/30, sit tight. Then you have to look for 8x10 processing options.

My Jobo CPE2 will not handle 3000 series tanks, so my line up is a 1520/30 combination for 120 and the odd 35mm, a 2509n for 4x5, and a 2830 print tank for 8x10. Granted the 2830 is not everyone's choice for 8x10, but it is working for me.

The 2509n reel in a small 2551 tank might be a little short for some roller bases. Though there have been some interesting DIY projects using motors and inline skate wheels posted over the past year that may be more adaptable.

Graham, I am interested in learning more about what procedure you go through to get the 2830 to work with processing 8x10 film. I have the 2850 print drum which I was planning on using with 7x17 Ilford film and prints when I'm a little further along.

Also, the roller base that I have right now is the Beseler 8921, which I have tested with the 3006. Works rather well, but it doesn't accommodate a complete turn when the reversing mode is switched on.

Thanks,

Ed

Graham Patterson
15-Feb-2017, 21:09
As far as using the 2830 (actually a 2833, I guess, since it has the cog lid and the Jobo has a Lift) goes, I am using 8x10 HP5+ with Thornton two bath developer, so no staining involved. Curl the film emulsion in, slide it into the tank with only one (long) edge contacting the common rib (for 8x10 there is one rib that is common to both sheets). Then bring the film back against the drum wall and ease the other side under the second rib. Then I just slide a finger down each rib to make sure the film is properly seated. I put a bit of tape on the outside of the drum to help locate the common rib in the dark. I have also used a 2840 (11x14) drum to do 8x10. I treat the capacity on the tank as a minimum, and usually use more solution. I have had no trouble with the finer ribs on this film leaving marks so far, and the dyes seem to clear without trouble.

You will have to run that base in one direction, and maybe switch the drum end for end every minute or so if running unidirectional is a problem. You have to rotate the drum completely to get even development. And you have to have the drum level, naturally.

Now, I have a 2830, and a CPE2, it works, and I am used to it. Of course, the grass is always greener...

[Having 8x10 negatives leads to 8x10 enlarger envy - I speak from experience!]

Duolab123
16-Feb-2017, 21:43
I use all three types. The CL81 takes some getting used to. Still it works great. The 2509n reels with the loader are super easy, without the loader tedious. I have 3 expert take 3005, 3006 and 3010. Gold standard. Actually if you only need to process 6 sheets or less of 4x5 the 3006 is the easiest. More than 10, 3 2509n reels you can process 18 at a time.
Here's my secret, IR googles. I have a loss of feeling in my fingers. The night vision works great.
Mike