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Luis-F-S
6-Feb-2017, 13:23
Other than Tray processing, how do most of you process 11x14 film? I process sheet film from 4x5 o 8x10 in 1 gal stainless tanks, but don't have tanks or hangers for 11x14. Suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Luis

diversey
6-Feb-2017, 13:30
I use a 11x14 print drum and a Unicolor roller to develop one sheet of 11x14 film.

DrTang
6-Feb-2017, 13:42
some jobo tank (it came w/o the big long tube in the middle - and I wrecked about 4 sheets before I figured out - THERE IS A HOLE where light can enter the tank... and put a rubber stopper in it) and a Beseler motor roller base

Martin Dake
6-Feb-2017, 13:51
some jobo tank (it came w/o the big long tube in the middle - and I wrecked about 4 sheets before I figured out - THERE IS A HOLE where light can enter the tank... and put a rubber stopper in it) and a Beseler motor roller base

The lids on Jobo tanks/drums come with either a light trap when used with center column (big long tube) or a cup when used as a print drum. If you wish to use a drum for sheet film it is best to use a lid with a cup, the light trap and cup are interchangeable as they just twist off.

bob carnie
6-Feb-2017, 14:00
I use a jobo tank for this.

Oren Grad
6-Feb-2017, 14:27
Jobo 3062/3063. Yes, unfortunately they've become very expensive.

Eric Woodbury
6-Feb-2017, 14:44
I know nothing of 11x14, but looks as though could make a BTZS-type tube from 4" ABS materials. Pretty cheap, except those end caps. Or just use an open tube and roll them in a tray of developer (in the dark). I'm using these for 4x5, 5x7, and soon 8x10. Best. --EW--

angusparker
6-Feb-2017, 14:57
@Oren:

Can you tell me how you do it? Two sheets in the 3062? I've had great success with a 2000 series Jobo setup doing 11x14 and 14x17 one sheet at a time but when doing 2 sheets of 11x14 in the 3062 the result isn't always the best - especially with Pyro developers that get all sorts of nasty lines from the ribs in the tank. Rodinal seems to be better for sure. I'm experimenting a bit with creating inserts that protect the film from the ribs.

Best, Angus

Jobo 3062/3063. Yes, unfortunately they've become very expensive.

angusparker
6-Feb-2017, 14:58
The lids on Jobo tanks/drums come with either a light trap when used with center column (big long tube) or a cup when used as a print drum. If you wish to use a drum for sheet film it is best to use a lid with a cup, the light trap and cup are interchangeable as they just twist off.

Relatively easy to find the cup versus hole attachments and easy to swap out if I remember.

Oren Grad
6-Feb-2017, 15:04
Can you tell me how you do it? Two sheets in the 3062? I've had great success with a 2000 series Jobo setup doing 11x14 and 14x17 one sheet at a time but when doing 2 sheets of 11x14 in the 3062 the result isn't always the best - especially with Pyro developers that get all sorts of nasty lines from the ribs in the tank. Rodinal seems to be better for sure. I'm experimenting a bit with creating inserts that protect the film from the ribs.

Afraid I don't have a fix for you. But I'm glad you brought this up because it's a necessary clarification. I've used the 3062 and 3063 successfully only with standard developers like D-76 - I've never used a pyro developer. But others who have tried with pyro developers have reported the same sort of trouble that you've seen with marks from the ribs.

angusparker
6-Feb-2017, 15:34
Afraid I don't have a fix for you. But I'm glad you brought this up because it's a necessary clarification. I've used the 3062 and 3063 successfully only with standard developers like D-76 - I've never used a pyro developer. But others who have tried with pyro developers have reported the same sort of trouble that you've seen with marks from the ribs.

Thanks for confirming what I seem to be finding. Regular developers OK, staining not so much, with the 3000 series drums that aren't "expert" style.

Greg
6-Feb-2017, 16:07
most of the time
single sheet: Unicolor Roller with Cibachrome Drum
2 sheets same dev time: Jobo 3062
2 sheets different dev times: 2 Unicolor Rollers with 2 Cibchrome Drums

every now and then in trays and get my hands wet.

Most sheets ever done at once in trays was 6 sheets. They all came out fine but since then 4 sheets at once is my comfortable limit.

Pyro in the Cibachrome drums only.

When I will be scanning the film negs and making digital negatives to print Platinum/Palladium. I process in Diafine. With Diafine, all the time in trays.

jnanian
6-Feb-2017, 18:41
Other than Tray processing, how do most of you process 11x14 film? I process sheet film from 4x5 o 8x10 in 1 gal stainless tanks, but don't have tanks or hangers for 11x14. Suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Luis

i haven't done this because i only shoot 11x14 paper myself, but could you get a pvc tube and cap off an end
and make your own drum ? kind of like "taco method" 11x14 .. that was my plan if i ever could afford 11x14 film ...
thankfully everything i have been exposing i can do it with a light on in a tray ..

Luis-F-S
6-Feb-2017, 19:01
Jobo 3062/3063. Yes, unfortunately they've become very expensive.

Oren, is there an advantage to the expert tubes with a manual processor for B&W?

Oren Grad
6-Feb-2017, 20:05
Oren, is there an advantage to the expert tubes with a manual processor for B&W?

The 3004/3005/3006/3010 drums have a complex internal construction designed for even solution flow on both sides of the sheet. That helps achieve excellent uniformity of development when processing sheet film.

The 3062/3063, by contrast, are just simple barrels with internal ribs, intended primarily for processing paper. There used to be special (and expensive) custom inserts offered for processing large sheets in the 3062/3063, but those are long gone. Without the inserts one stuffs sheets of film directly into the barrels, either wedging them between the ribs to allow multiple sheets or just tossing a single large sheet in (I've done that with 12x20 in the 3063). I use my 3062 and 3063 on a Jobo CPA-2, which needs the compatible drums. But if you're using a manual roller base, if you can find a less expensive print drum from some other brand that's large enough, there isn't necessarily a reason to spend extra for the Jobo drums.

SMBooth
6-Feb-2017, 23:36
some jobo tank (it came w/o the big long tube in the middle - and I wrecked about 4 sheets before I figured out - THERE IS A HOLE where light can enter the tank... and put a rubber stopper in it) and a Beseler motor roller base

Then how do you pour the chemicals in....

Nicolasllasera
7-Feb-2017, 02:20
I use a Jobo 3063 (actually 3) and stick two sheets at a time per tank. Easy and fast to use. I pour 500ml of liquid for 2 sheets, not sure if its too much but it seems to work fine.

Luis-F-S
7-Feb-2017, 06:36
most of the time
single sheet: Unicolor Roller with Cibachrome Drum
2 sheets same dev time: Jobo 3062
2 sheets different dev times: 2 Unicolor Rollers with 2 Cibchrome Drums

Is the developing time in drums with constant agitation similar to that published with intermittent agitation? I'm trying to find a starting point for both HP5 & EB/RA with HC-110. I know my developing times for different dilutions in tanks, so if the drums are similar, it gives me a starting point. If say 20% less, that sort of info will help. L

loonatic45414
7-Feb-2017, 16:46
I read where someone asked about using a PVC tube and would like to know the answer if anyone has one.

Could someone make a film developing tank using PVC tubing or would it somehow react badly with the film and/or chemicals?

Thanks

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

Greg
7-Feb-2017, 17:47
I read where someone asked about using a PVC tube and would like to know the answer if anyone has one.

Could someone make a film developing tank using PVC tubing or would it somehow react badly with the film and/or chemicals?

Thanks

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

Have constructed several PVC processing tanks and trays over the years that were used with E-6, B&W developers, some rather caustic alternative processes, Cibachrome, and C-41. Never had any problems with chemicals reacting with PVC.

loonatic45414
7-Feb-2017, 17:55
Wow. Thanks. I have a couple projects in the works. Was it difficult making a light trap for the lids?

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Duolab123
12-Feb-2017, 09:38
I use a Jobo 2500/2800 drum. I have a processor but I have used a roller as well. I have 3 different Jobo light traps/funnels. The print cup, the funnel that connects to a center column, and a "blocked" funnel like what comes on the Expert tanks. The cup works great.. If you have enough column you can use the funnel with the column in place to block light.
Probably the cheapest is to find a Beseler or Unicolor print drum. People give these things away. After processing in the tube, I remove the sheet from the tube. Next, in a tray, hypo clear (helps to remove the purple) then wash in 20 C running water in a tray.

David Lobato
12-Feb-2017, 10:16
I use Unicolor drums for 11x14 film. It avoids film scratches, and is much easier, if you fill the drum to the top with water, then remove the sheet of film.

Mkillmer
15-Feb-2017, 21:13
@Oren:

Can you tell me how you do it? Two sheets in the 3062? I've had great success with a 2000 series Jobo setup doing 11x14 and 14x17 one sheet at a time but when doing 2 sheets of 11x14 in the 3062 the result isn't always the best - especially with Pyro developers that get all sorts of nasty lines from the ribs in the tank. Rodinal seems to be better for sure. I'm experimenting a bit with creating inserts that protect the film from the ribs.

Best, Angus

Hi Angus,
My local art supply shop sells 1mm thick polypropylene sheets in A2 size. This is a flexible sheet that is easy to cut with scissors. I have used this as a sleeve in my 2XXX tanks for 11x14 film.
Let me know how you go.

angusparker
15-Feb-2017, 21:42
Hi Angus,
My local art supply shop sells 1mm thick polypropylene sheets in A2 size. This is a flexible sheet that is easy to cut with scissors. I have used this as a sleeve in my 2XXX tanks for 11x14 film.
Let me know how you go.

Thanks for the tip. Sort of the direction I'm trying - of course it works better/easier when you only have one sheet. For the two sheet variant for the Jobo 3063 tank - I'm experimenting with non-stick polypropylene and giant snaps to hold the film in place and not shift around. So far my prototypes haven't struck gold yet! When I do I'll share my ideas with the forum.

Hugo Zhang
15-Feb-2017, 22:22
I use Jobo 2840 tank. One sheet per tank. Rodinal semi-stand.

Dirk Rösler
16-Feb-2017, 01:05
For the two sheet variant for the Jobo 3063 tank - I'm experimenting with non-stick polypropylene and giant snaps to hold the film in place and not shift around. So far my prototypes haven't struck gold yet! When I do I'll share my ideas with the forum.

Why not use the Job clips? They clip on the ribs (the bigger ones) and nicely hold things in place.

161281

Catlabs have them (http://www.catlabs.info/product/six-pack-of-jobo-print-clips-for-print-drums-95522), but pricey and I am sure you can find elsewhere or similar.

Jon Wilson
16-Feb-2017, 18:53
Jobo did make a plastic sheet with rivot buttons to hold the 11x14 film in place in their 3062 and 3063 drums (think these are the right numbers) I found one years ago and it works well. There was a thread on APUG on the steps to make one of these sleeves.

angusparker
16-Feb-2017, 22:17
Why not use the Job clips? They clip on the ribs (the bigger ones) and nicely hold things in place.

161281

Catlabs have them (http://www.catlabs.info/product/six-pack-of-jobo-print-clips-for-print-drums-95522), but pricey and I am sure you can find elsewhere or similar.

I have tons of those. I thought they were only for paper. Should give them a look see.


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angusparker
16-Feb-2017, 22:17
Jobo did make a plastic sheet with rivot buttons to hold the 11x14 film in place in their 3062 and 3063 drums (think these are the right numbers) I found one years ago and it works well. There was a thread on APUG on the steps to make one of these sleeves.

I'll try and find the APUG thread. Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

angusparker
16-Feb-2017, 22:31
This is the best thread and what I am trying to duplicate: http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?threads/eureka-jobo-3063-insert-for-7x17.33744/


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Michael Kadillak
17-Feb-2017, 09:05
Purchased a set of the JOBO polycarbonate insets for the JOBO drum in 11x14 and 12x20 back in the day and tried them once and while they worked fine, it drove me nuts processing a sheet at a time. They have been sitting idle since anticipating a point where I have hours upon hours to process sheet film. What happens if I come home with 15 or 20 exposed 11x14 negatives? The protracted time to develop these one at a time I do not want to be an inhibiting event to working freely. That said tube processing with RAD (reduced agitation development) with two poly tubes at a time on separate timers is still time consuming, but the results are so superior in these large sizes it is legitimately worth the effort. The movement of film in the tubes is a concern as it can cause emulsion scratching. Finalizing a solution for that in the final testing phase. For special negatives that can best benefit with RAD techniques (extreme N- and N+) I still will take the effort two negatives at a time.

For the life of me I cannot understand the angst about tray development of 11x14 sheet film or for that matter 8x10 8x20 or 12x20 sheet film). I can process up to six sheets of any of these film formats (although if they are images with skies I have found the best grouping is four sheets at a time) without even a hint of marks or scratching with perfect results and I can get the batch of film processed and hanging to dry in the cabinet in under 45 minutes. Couple of keys to success. First is having an IR monocle to see what you are doing which also helps in loading holders. Plus development by inspection comes along for the ride. Second is individual dedicated washer slots to wash the sheets so they do not touch each other in this cycle. At the end of the day it is about efficiency and trays have been a go to option since Edward's days. If I must have some inefficiency induced upon me it will be in the field not in the darkroom. I realize that may just be me.

angusparker
17-Feb-2017, 10:35
Purchased a set of the JOBO polycarbonate insets for the JOBO drum in 11x14 and 12x20 back in the day and tried them once and while they worked fine, it drove me nuts processing a sheet at a time. They have been sitting idle since anticipating a point where I have hours upon hours to process sheet film. What happens if I come home with 15 or 20 exposed 11x14 negatives? The protracted time to develop these one at a time I do not want to be an inhibiting event to working freely. That said tube processing with RAD (reduced agitation development) with two poly tubes at a time on separate timers is still time consuming, but the results are so superior in these large sizes it is legitimately worth the effort. The movement of film in the tubes is a concern as it can cause emulsion scratching. Finalizing a solution for that in the final testing phase. For special negatives that can best benefit with RAD techniques (extreme N- and N+) I still will take the effort two negatives at a time.

For the life of me I cannot understand the angst about tray development of 11x14 sheet film or for that matter 8x10 8x20 or 12x20 sheet film). I can process up to six sheets of any of these film formats (although if they are images with skies I have found the best grouping is four sheets at a time) without even a hint of marks or scratching with perfect results and I can get the batch of film processed and hanging to dry in the cabinet in under 45 minutes. Couple of keys to success. First is having an IR monocle to see what you are doing which also helps in loading holders. Plus development by inspection comes along for the ride. Second is individual dedicated washer slots to wash the sheets so they do not touch each other in this cycle. At the end of the day it is about efficiency and trays have been a got to option since Edward's days. If I must have some inefficiency induced upon me it will be in the field not in the darkroom. I realize that may just be me.

I'm with you. Part of what is holding me back with my 11x14 and 14x17 is the time to process negatives - just not fun! There is an outfit in SF that will do this for you which I will have to consider. The advantage of using the Jobo Expert drums to do 5 sheets of 8x10 or 10 sheets of 4x5 is enormous. But perhaps I have to breakdown and do tray development. What IR monocle or googles do you recommend? Is there a good video somewhere showing how you do development that way? I'm so used to time based development rather than by inspection.

Michael Kadillak
18-Feb-2017, 14:07
I'm with you. Part of what is holding me back with my 11x14 and 14x17 is the time to process negatives - just not fun! There is an outfit in SF that will do this for you which I will have to consider. The advantage of using the Jobo Expert drums to do 5 sheets of 8x10 or 10 sheets of 4x5 is enormous. But perhaps I have to breakdown and do tray development. What IR monocle or googles do you recommend? Is there a good video somewhere showing how you do development that way? I'm so used to time based development rather than by inspection. Sent you a PM so as to not detract from the original post.

Thalmees
6-Mar-2017, 06:12
Hello,
Modified a Jobo 4511 format holder that came with two(2) red ribs,
by creating openings along the format holder at the proper place to accept 11X14,
and inserting one of the red ribs in the new line of openings. Please see photos below.
The film is held in place by the rib at one side, and by the curved border of the format holder at the other side.
The Jobo 4511 can accommodate sizes up to 16X20.
Hope this useful.
Drums compatible are 2850 and 3063.
Before owning this format holder, tried to make one, but failed because the materials was not as thick as Jobo format holder. Never found material in the local market similar to Jobo.
You can make similar or better if you have a thick enough plastic sheet.
.
162244.&.162245

Carl J
31-Mar-2017, 21:55
Purchased a set of the JOBO polycarbonate insets for the JOBO drum in 11x14 and 12x20 back in the day and tried them once and while they worked fine, it drove me nuts processing a sheet at a time. They have been sitting idle since anticipating a point where I have hours upon hours to process sheet film. What happens if I come home with 15 or 20 exposed 11x14 negatives? The protracted time to develop these one at a time I do not want to be an inhibiting event to working freely. That said tube processing with RAD (reduced agitation development) with two poly tubes at a time on separate timers is still time consuming, but the results are so superior in these large sizes it is legitimately worth the effort. The movement of film in the tubes is a concern as it can cause emulsion scratching. Finalizing a solution for that in the final testing phase. For special negatives that can best benefit with RAD techniques (extreme N- and N+) I still will take the effort two negatives at a time.

For the life of me I cannot understand the angst about tray development of 11x14 sheet film or for that matter 8x10 8x20 or 12x20 sheet film). I can process up to six sheets of any of these film formats (although if they are images with skies I have found the best grouping is four sheets at a time) without even a hint of marks or scratching with perfect results and I can get the batch of film processed and hanging to dry in the cabinet in under 45 minutes. Couple of keys to success. First is having an IR monocle to see what you are doing which also helps in loading holders. Plus development by inspection comes along for the ride. Second is individual dedicated washer slots to wash the sheets so they do not touch each other in this cycle. At the end of the day it is about efficiency and trays have been a go to option since Edward's days. If I must have some inefficiency induced upon me it will be in the field not in the darkroom. I realize that may just be me.

Hi Michael,
With RAD how are you agitating the 11x14/8x20/12x20 film in the tubes (when you use them) at the specified intervals? Do you have a suitable top cap and invert or roll around? For 8x10 I use a pair of 3" electrical conduit tubes with male/female connectors and flat end caps (Tim Jones/Steve Sherman PyrocatHD method which requires fairly vigorous agitation the first min) but have hesitated to do the same for 11x14 and above. In part because wasn't sure I wanted to use and handle that much chemistry for a single sheet in a 4" tube and just never got around to buying the conduit tubes and end caps. I currently develop ULF in 11x14 or 16x20 Unicolor drums and rotating base but would like the option to use extreme minimal agitation some of the time. Unfortunately I don't have space for tray development with multiple sheets at this time. Do, agree, though, RAD (or extreme minimal development) has its benefits but I don't do it all the time.