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greginpa
1-Feb-2017, 15:03
My Elwood 5 x 7 counter balance reel tape zipped inside the housing, I guess the rivet failed holding the d-ring as the ring went flying as it rolled up. Has anyone opened one of these up? My concern is wasting time trying to fix it if the spring is so tight I can't get it back together? Or the thing leaping out all over the place etc...
Thanks
Greg

Randy Moe
1-Feb-2017, 18:59
Might be hard to fix or painful. It appears the 8X10 Elwood used 2 or 3 spring reels and the 5X7 used one. So look for 8X10 parts also.

Rube Goldberg would retrofit with rope, pulley and weight. Many enlargers use this simple system.

Or look here. https://www.mcmaster.com/#spring-reels/=1667f5b

greginpa
2-Feb-2017, 07:48
Thanks Randy, Yeah, that's what I'm worried about, the edges are pretty sharp. Do you have Rube's email? ; ) I think I'll go with a length of cord and a heavy weight. The enlarger has a good tightening system so I can do without but would like the backup insurance.
greg

Randy Moe
2-Feb-2017, 08:44
Thanks Randy, Yeah, that's what I'm worried about, the edges are pretty sharp. Do you have Rube's email? ; ) I think I'll go with a length of cord and a heavy weight. The enlarger has a good tightening system so I can do without but would like the backup insurance.
greg

Yes, I have Rube's email but I am sworn to secrecy. When I see him next, I won't be back.

You could just tilt 90 degrees as the Elwood is made for that and enlarge onto paper on a wall. Then you would not need the spring reel or hack.

Ted R
2-Feb-2017, 09:07
I was looking for these a few years ago for a DeJur, these items are still made and can be found online, once you have discovered the name for them! Try "counterbalance spring" you may find an exact replacement.

MrFujicaman
2-Feb-2017, 09:55
Years ago, View Camera had an article on how to fix this problem...sadly I don't have that article. Maybe a call to Steve Simmons ?

greginpa
2-Feb-2017, 10:07
Thanks for the help. I'll see about contacting Steve Simmons. One way or another I'll get this taken care of. PS my darkroom is too small to work sideways, tho a clever suggestion.

Vaughn
2-Feb-2017, 10:16
I had a window company which makes countersprings make me some for D5-XLs. I sent them a broken one, told them the amount of weight it needed to hold up and they whipped a few out for me. Too long ago to remember the name of the company.

MrFujicaman
2-Feb-2017, 21:20
I got bored and went searching...Vaughn gave me the idea. Try www.pullmanmfg.com. They make window counterbalance springs for up to a 29 pound load.

Vaughn
2-Feb-2017, 21:23
That's them.

The D5s use two, so the load per spring is halved. Since then, there is an Omega replacement which are more like the more robust Beseler 23C springs.

ic-racer
3-Feb-2017, 07:16
I move the head of my enlarger with a button. :D

Counterweighrt spring...Randy Moe would be the expert on these things...

Randy Moe wrote:
I worked up a sweat. Pulled seven dried up greasy 20 lb lead weights. Which is 140 lbs, effective 280 lbs, which should be about the weight of condenser head complete setup with camera assembly.

Randy Moe
3-Feb-2017, 07:25
I move the head of my enlarger with a button. :D

Counterweighrt spring...Randy Moe would be the expert on these things...

Randy Moe wrote:

That's a comment on a Saltsman 10X10 inch very heavy duty enlarger that was designed to balance 2 huge 14" glass condensers that must weigh 70lbs alone, then we need to add the very sturdy camera body, best in class neg carrier and a lamp.

5X7 Elwood's weigh almost nothing. I have 2. They are very beautiful to my eye and are great consumer devices.

Snark

Chuck Pere
3-Feb-2017, 08:32
One of my counter balance springs broke off on my 8x10 C-2. I used a pop rivet to put the D-ring back on. Problem is it was so long ago that I can't recall if I had to open the case to extract the spring end. I see that they used to sell replacement springs so maybe you can take them apart safely. Worth a try at least.

greginpa
3-Feb-2017, 17:50
I think I'm going to put on my leather welding gloves and pop it open and see what I find. If I can't repair it, I have a couple little stainless mini pulleys that will go into the ceiling and wall over and behind with a weight.
I agree about the Elwood. Like sculpture, and so easy to use.
I'll report back what I find.

LabRat
3-Feb-2017, 18:55
One of my counter balance springs broke off on my 8x10 C-2. I used a pop rivet to put the D-ring back on. Problem is it was so long ago that I can't recall if I had to open the case to extract the spring end. I see that they used to sell replacement springs so maybe you can take them apart safely. Worth a try at least.

Thumbs down on taking it apart!!! Even with welding or chain mail gloves on, if that reeled in quickly while in your hands, it would be like a bandsaw blade in a butcher's shop passing through your hands, and if it whipped around, the tip would be worse than the mark of Zorro... VERY dangerous!!!

Ordering a new one from the abovementioned link is a sane idea...

Steve K

MrFujicaman
4-Feb-2017, 11:23
Hey Greg...

However you fix the Elwood, post a few pictures and a list of parts and suppliers for the next guy with the same problem.

Jim C.
4-Feb-2017, 12:54
Kinda late to this thread, the tape balance is a separate unit inside the housing, if yours broke at the D ring it's a good chance any spring energy
has been unwound, but it never hurts to be cautious in case the tape was stopped during it's unwinding and there is still energy stored.
The ones I have pictured are from a 8x10 Elwood and the tape balance is made by Caldwell #154.
Probably best to replace with a similar sized unit from McMaster or another source.

160782

160783

greginpa
4-Feb-2017, 19:26
Thanks Jim. Yep this is what mine looks like too. I found an exact replacement on ebay. Also found the company appears to still make them. They are expensive however. They are originally made for balancing windows, Elwood repurposed them. I should be back in business in a matter of days. Thanks everyone for all your help.
ps, those with a working elwood should perhaps oil there spring counter balance. Right before mine went ZIP! and broke itself it momentarily seized then rapidly took up the slack popping off the d ring.There is a little lubrication hole on the faceplate of the unit inside the case.

Bob Salomon
5-Feb-2017, 04:22
Thanks Jim. Yep this is what mine looks like too. I found an exact replacement on ebay. Also found the company appears to still make them. They are expensive however. They are originally made for balancing windows, Elwood repurposed them. I should be back in business in a matter of days. Thanks everyone for all your help.
ps, those with a working elwood should perhaps oil there spring counter balance. Right before mine went ZIP! and broke itself it momentarily seized then rapidly took up the slack popping off the d ring.There is a little lubrication hole on the faceplate of the unit inside the case.

You sure that it should be oiled? If it was designed as a window counter balance spring then it would be in the wood work with no way to add oil to it.

greginpa
5-Feb-2017, 05:29
So out of curiosity, now that I know I have a replacement. I opened mine up. Inside is a container, like a dish with a large coiled spring inside. The tape which is attached to the enlarger is wrapped around this inner container. When the tape is allowed to go inside the cover the container which is under spring pressure releases it's pressure. So to fix this one would have to wind the spring loaded container/case back up. They probably have a tool in the factory which mates to the case and allows one to crank it to the right level of tension. Doing it without the proper crank would be risky if it got away from you. When just turning it a half turn I can feel that the grease is gritty from use and it should move much more freely. I'll post a photo of the guts a little later.

greginpa
5-Feb-2017, 06:30
Here's the insides. BTW the hole I assumed for oiling would place the oil near the base of the spring case which would direct it toward the pivot.
160823

Jim C.
5-Feb-2017, 17:40
Thanks Jim. Yep this is what mine looks like too. I found an exact replacement on ebay. Also found the company appears to still make them. They are expensive however. They are originally made for balancing windows, Elwood repurposed them. I should be back in business in a matter of days. Thanks everyone for all your help.
ps, those with a working elwood should perhaps oil there spring counter balance. Right before mine went ZIP! and broke itself it momentarily seized then rapidly took up the slack popping off the d ring.There is a little lubrication hole on the faceplate of the unit inside the case.

Ebay is always a good place to look for hardware, glad you found a direct replacement.
McMaster is also a good source too.

There different purposes for spring balances, not just for windows, an old horizontal process camera I took apart ages ago had cabled
spring balances used as counterbalances for the focusing system.
Caldwell probably spun off their industrial spring balances to concentrate on window balances.