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l2oBiN
10-Jan-2017, 16:19
Could anyone advise on how to adjust the tension of each axis on the cube? (Beyond the tension adjustment knobs).

I am finding its unable to sufficiently lock down when changing film holders or shooting on angles with 8x10.

I am aware that it can be sent to a service centre in the US but the postage cost to send the cube across from Australia is prohibitive (hundred dollars+), especially if it's just a couple of allen key screws to tighten...




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Daniel Stone
10-Jan-2017, 17:09
Have you considered calling that repair center and asking them directly? A phone call is cheaper than a shipping form :)

Just a thought

Christopher Barrett
10-Jan-2017, 17:37
My 8x10 arrived today and I think it's probably just too heavy for the Cube, especially at long extensions. I'm looking at alternatives now.

l2oBiN
10-Jan-2017, 19:50
Rod supposedly uses it with his 8x10....

If it really is insufficient it would be a bit disappointing.

I would love to have a lock/unlock flip leaver for each axis once the adjustments are done...


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l2oBiN
10-Jan-2017, 19:51
Have you considered calling that repair center and asking them directly? A phone call is cheaper than a shipping form :)

Just a thought

Will do.

It would be good to know whether the head is actually capable of "locking down"?


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Daniel Stone
10-Jan-2017, 22:34
Will do.

It would be good to know whether the head is actually capable of "locking down"?


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I have a cube, and mine is "self locking"(aren't they all?). I don't see the Cube as being designed for large loads such as 8x10 monorails(even an F-line), especially at long extensions(360mm +). Mine works very well with my Linhof Technikardan 45S, even with the 450mm lens in use. The mounting area is too small, IMO, to properly stabilize a load the size(not just weight) of an 8x10 camera however.

Now I wouldn't shy away from a version that had actual locks however. But as it sits, I like it just the same. Very simple and easy to use and the self-locking gears haven't proven problematic whatsoever.

-Dan

asf
15-Jan-2017, 19:23
The tension isn't user adjustable AFAIK. Yours may need to go in for service if your tension adjustment dials aren't working properly.

I've used my cube with an 8x10 F Line, while ok with a 150 or 210, it barely works with a 300
others have made theirs work for 8x10 but for me it doesn't

The heaviest camera/lens I've used without much issue is a 5x7 p2 with a 120 and that wasn't the most secure

Works great with a 4x5 F line or even 5x7 f line and wide lenses

For heavier cameras I'm now using the Linhof 3d Micro with the QuickFix if I need precise leveling (no problem with a p2 8x10, quick fix is easier to mount a heavier camera in the field) or the Manfrotto 400 if I need to shoot down or at some angle (although I don't really like that head it works)

Jeff Keller
17-Jan-2017, 11:44
The tension adjustment knobs never seemed to have a great impact on mine. You might want to try cleaning off the curved surfaces and grooves the head tilts on. Tilt the head as far down as possible, wipe off the curved surfaces (top and bottom) and the groove on the inside, perhaps using alcohol to remove most of the lubricant, then tilt up as far up as possible and repeat.

Putting a heavy viscous lubricant on would change the feel but I don't know if it would truly prevent creep. It might also be hard to remove if you don't like the effect. I had the opposite problem. The tilt adjustment became really sluggish. I wiped off most of the thick, partially dried lubricant and the adjustments eased up.

jeff

Grumium
17-Jan-2017, 12:05
Take a look on Linhof's Micro 3D. I used my 7x17 (450mm) on this head without issues.

l2oBiN
17-Jan-2017, 12:09
What makes the Linhof head better?


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Bob Salomon
17-Jan-2017, 12:25
What makes the Li hot head better?


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First, it is a 3 way leveling head, not the same movement as the cube. But an accessory arm does let it go to a full 90 if desired.
Next the movements, even with heavy weight on it are much smoother and much more precise.
Then it does not rely on grease for lubrication. The movements are bi metal so they are self lubricating and by adjusting the brass inserts with an Allen key you can easily adjust the tension. Not using grease the head does not get fouled by sand of grit.

l2oBiN
17-Jan-2017, 12:36
Is it guaranteed not to move? Ie as good as locked?


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asf
17-Jan-2017, 12:47
How large/heavy is the camera/lens combo?

Mine has been solid with a p2 8x10 and 360 symmar s

But I'm not asking it to hold the camera at 12deg off axis, just level

So for me the adjustments are "locked" when the head is used as intended - as a leveler.

Mine is the newer version with the disk pan locks

asf
17-Jan-2017, 12:50
I can also say it is closer to "locked" than any other geared head I've tried. Any movement I've seen has come from somewhere in the camera itself.

It would be nicer with a geared pan …

Jeff Keller
17-Jan-2017, 17:05
Just an FYI about one person's opinion
https://photographylife.com/reviews/linhof-3d-micro

asf
17-Jan-2017, 17:15
That's the original version of the Linhof head. As I understand it the pan locks weren't as strong as they are on the new version.

Jeff Keller
17-Jan-2017, 18:22
The gear drive looks like it is a worm drive whereas the cube has a rack and pinion. That and the 8 to 1 difference in drive ratio would mean the Linhof would surely have less "slip".

l2oBiN
17-Jan-2017, 20:08
Less slip does not equal to locked. I understand that linhof has advertised a 10kg capacity. Does that mean that any rig under 10kgs should effectively be equivalent to locked?




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Jeff Keller
17-Jan-2017, 21:57
asf will have to give you the best answer. I'm not 100% certain it is a worm drive on the Linhof. However if you think about it the threads on the worm are running across the teeth on the toothed track. A strong force from the track is as likely to break the teeth on the worm as it is to make the worm turn. The force is almost 90 degrees away from the direction that makes the worm turn. I suspect it is essentially locked and would take a lot of continued vibration, in addition to the off center weight of the camera to make it slip.

asf
18-Jan-2017, 02:29
It is a worm drive

asf
18-Jan-2017, 02:42
If you want guaranteed locked movements I doubt any geared head can promise that under all circumstances
In my experience mine hasn't moved with a large heavy lens/camera combo. It's the only gear head I've used that hasn't.
I haven't tried a majestic or saltzman, perhaps they are stronger/more secure.

asf
18-Jan-2017, 02:52
I got mine from Linhof Studio with a 14 day return option

Talk to them, try it, if you don't like it or find that it slips in your usage send it back

l2oBiN
18-Jan-2017, 04:16
Skipping gearing all together, what low profile 3 way heads are available?

I tested the 1570 m and it flexes under weight. The manfrotto has a version I believe rc808 that is quite tall. The best I found is the Foba Asimia but 1000+ for a standard 3 way?


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asf
18-Jan-2017, 04:30
Forget gitzo and manfrotto

Get a Foba Asmia or Toyo TPM-II and be done with it. Either can hold a 25 pound camera at 90degrees no problem

Bob Salomon
18-Jan-2017, 07:00
Skipping gearing all together, what low profile 3 way heads are available?

I tested the 1570 m and it flexes under weight. The manfrotto has a version I believe rc808 that is quite tall. The best I found is the Gina, but 1000+ fir a standard 3 way?

Linhof has a couple.
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mstrickland
18-Jan-2017, 12:10
I've never had any problems using my Cube and Arca F-Line at odd angles or with long extension. I max out my bellows extension frequently and have never had any issues with mine slipping or handling the weight. I've cantilevered over 100 lbs (10 lb weight on a 10" rail) on it and set a laser pointer on the head and marked the dot ever 5 minutes over the course of an hour and it didn't move.

http://www.michaelstricklandimages.com/blog/2016/10/5/gear-review-arca-swiss-cube-c1

If you want guaranteed lock, the Linhof will give you that. It's worm driven, so you're at the nature of metal fatigue at that point. Theoretically, it's impossible to "backdrive" 99% of worm gear designs, but you will definitely lose functionality of the head. The number of revolutions it takes to tun the allowable 15 degrees(?) in either direction is astronomical and you can't go full 90 degrees. I've put my Schneider 800 Tele on my 8x10 with full extension at a downward angle and haven't seen it slip, but could still position the cube accordingly. My $.02.

Bob Salomon
18-Jan-2017, 12:17
I've never had any problems using my Cube and Arca F-Line at odd angles or with long extension. I max out my bellows extension frequently and have never had any issues with mine slipping or handling the weight. I've cantilevered over 100 lbs (10 lb weight on a 10" rail) on it and set a laser pointer on the head and marked the dot ever 5 minutes over the course of an hour and it didn't move.

http://www.michaelstricklandimages.com/blog/2016/10/5/gear-review-arca-swiss-cube-c1

If you want guaranteed lock, the Linhof will give you that. It's worm driven, so you're at the nature of metal fatigue at that point. Theoretically, it's impossible to "backdrive" 99% of worm gear designs, but you will definitely lose functionality of the head. The number of revolutions it takes to tun the allowable 15 degrees(?) in either direction is astronomical and you can't go full 90 degrees. I've put my Schneider 800 Tele on my 8x10 with full extension at a downward angle and haven't seen it slip, but could still position the cube accordingly. My $.02.

But you can make adjustments on the Linhof head faster if you add the accessory crank knobs to the adjusting knobs on the head. They just press over the knobs. The crank handle folds for convenience. These same cranks also fit some of the knobs on the M679cs.

mstrickland
18-Jan-2017, 13:20
But you can make adjustments on the Linhof head faster if you add the accessory crank knobs to the adjusting knobs on the head. They just press over the knobs. The crank handle folds for convenience. These same cranks also fit some of the knobs on the M679cs.

I don't disagree, but it's just not my thing. The worm drive doesn't sell it enough for me alone. I point my camera down too often and the Cube does its job the way I need it to.

asf
18-Jan-2017, 13:23
In my experience with the cube it's not that it slipped once set, but it was very easy to inadvertently move it when at an extreme angle, say tilted 20deg down with a 300 plasmat on 8x10. Inserting a film holder in this position was sure to cause movement. Others have reported similar issues.

Pointing straight down as you show it should be no problem as it's at the end of its adjustments range and gravity is working with you for the most part

mstrickland
18-Jan-2017, 13:29
In my experience with the cube it's not that it slipped once set, but it was very easy to inadvertently move it when at an extreme angle, say tilted 20deg down with a 300 plasmat on 8x10. Inserting a film holder in this position was sure to cause movement. Others have reported similar issues.

Pointing straight down as you show it should be no problem as it's at the end of its adjustments range and gravity is working with you for the most part

Ah, I see what you're saying. I suppose I still haven't had any problems with that. Are you talking about in the panning bases or the gearing? I can understand how the lateral movement would cause the pan to slip, but I've never had the gearing move at all, despite loading/unloading film holders, lenses, etc.

asf
18-Jan-2017, 13:31
Gearing

It may be some are stronger than others

Mine is a rock until a certain point, then it's not

asf
18-Jan-2017, 14:48
The other issue I noticed with the cube I don't see with the QuickFix version of the Linhof Micro is a weakness at the attachment point (clamp).

Using a 5x7 p2 with wide lenses (72 - 120) was the edge of what it could handle. By that I mean it would hold the camera steadily without losing settings throughout the shooting process. Didn't lose any frames or have to reset it after inserting film holders, even horizontally.

What I couldn't do with that camera on the cube was pick it up and walk with it. To move the setup I'd have to take the camera off the head, carry them separately and reattach after

The heavy camera moving side to side puts to much stress on the arca clamp.

A toyo 5x7 G was too much for the cube. I think it's a question of balance and torsion. With lighter, lower profile cameras it is not an issue at all.

The QuickFix doesn't seem to have that problem.

I've found the cube doesn't properly hold the 810 arca, Chris Barrett has indicated the same, and this thread was started by someone with the same issue, yet others use theirs successfully. It may come down to the age of the head. Mine is not new, I got it in 2003. That said it never could easily hold an 810 arca, even brand new. That didn't stop me from shooting a lot of film and jobs with that combo, it just wasn't really ideal.

Bob Salomon
18-Jan-2017, 15:04
The other issue I noticed with the cube I don't see with the QuickFix version of the Linhof Micro is a weakness at the attachment point (clamp).

Using a 5x7 p2 with wide lenses (72 - 120) was the edge of what it could handle. By that I mean it would hold the camera steadily without losing settings throughout the shooting process. Didn't lose any frames or have to reset it after inserting film holders, even horizontally.

What I couldn't do with that camera on the cube was pick it up and walk with it. To move the setup I'd have to take the camera off the head, carry them separately and reattach after

The heavy camera moving side to side puts to much stress on the arca clamp.

A toyo 5x7 G was too much for the cube. I think it's a question of balance and torsion. With lighter, lower profile cameras it is not an issue at all.

The QuickFix doesn't seem to have that problem.

I've found the cube doesn't properly hold the 810 arca, Chris Barrett has indicated the same, and this thread was started by someone with the same issue, yet others use theirs successfully. It may come down to the age of the head. Mine is not new, I got it in 2003. That said it never could easily hold an 810 arca, even brand new. That didn't stop me from shooting a lot of film and jobs with that combo, it just wasn't really ideal.

Just so there is no confusion. The Linhof 3Way geared leveling head as well as the non geared version are each available in models,for either the Linhof Quickfix quick release plates or for Arca,compatible heads. The Quickfix versions are supplied with a Quickfix plate. The Arca versions do not come with a plate.

Grumium
12-Mar-2017, 10:59
Bob, thanks for your reply. I already have that head but found it still helpful though.


Next the movements, even with heavy weight on it are much smoother and much more precise.
+1

I further consider customer service better with Linhof.


Then it does not rely on grease for lubrication. The movements are bi metal so they are self lubricating and by adjusting the brass inserts with an Allen key you can easily adjust the tension. Not using grease the head does not get fouled by sand of grit.
Bob, the head comes greased by factory. Are you saying that "ungreasing" is possible without risking functionality and its life? Where can one adjust the brass insert?

Bob Salomon
12-Mar-2017, 11:01
Bob, thanks for your reply. I already have that head but found it still helpful though.


+1

I further consider customer service better with Linhof.


Bob, the head comes greased by factory. Are you saying that "ungreasing" is possible without risking functionality and its life? Where can one adjust the brass insert?
There are small Allen screws on the side of the tracks, those are the adjustment points.