Lightweight Gitzo tripod for 4x5

[Roger Richards]

Hi everyone, I would like to ask your help in regard to my search for a very light but stable Gitzo legs/head tripod for an Ebony 45s. I already have a Berlebach 3032 but I would like to find something a bit smaller and lighter for walking around. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[SHY]

G1327/G1377M

[Eric Leppanen]

I've been happy with my Gitzo 1228 and Linhof Profi II ballhead (with Really Right Stuff Arca-compatible quick release plate) for my Ebony RSW45.

[Nicholas Fiduccia]

A Gitzo 1325 with Arca-Swiss B1 would be my preference. A lighter weight but, less stable alternative would be a Gitzo 1227 with a Arcatech ballhead.

[Donald Hutton]

Either the Gitzo 1227 or 1228 will be perfect. I think the Acratech ballhead is a really nice head if you prefer a ballhead - alternatively, the Bogen 410 geared head seems awesome for a 3-way. I would definitely not recommend the 1325 over the 1227/1228 - I have both the 1228 and 1325 - the 1325 will be overkill for the 45s. The 1228 paired with the Acratech head is an extremely lightweight functional piece of gear which is short and light enough to fit in any luggage (the reason I own it).

[Nature Photo]

I have used for 3 years a Gitzo 1227 CF with Arca B1. It is stable enough so that the weak link in the chain is the wood field camera itself.

[Juergen Sattler]

Another vote for the 1227 CF with the Arca B-1 Ballhead. I use it with a Canham DLC45. My biggest lens is a Rodenstock 240 in a Copal 3 and the camera with this combination is very solid. Great for hiking.

[Armin Seeholzer]

Hi

I use since 3 years a Gitzo 1228 and it works perfect for my Horseman HF und my Sinar F1. I use it with a Mamiya 3D mag. head.

[Brian Ellis]

The 1227 has a load capacity of about 12 pounds. The 1325 has a load capacity of about 25 pounds. The 1227 weighs about a pound less than the 1325 but with tripods this light (3 pounds vs 4 pounds) I don't think that makes much difference. I'd get the 1325 for the much greater load capacity. Even with your existing setup you're approaching the load capacity of the 1227 and if you ever get a heavier 4x5 camera, or want to move up to 5x7 or 8x10, the 1325 will be usable whereas the 1227 very possibly wouldn't be. As you might have guessed, I have the 1325. I've used it with cameras ranging in size and weight from a Nikon D100 digital camera to 8x10 (12 pound Deardorff) and its worked well with everything I've put on it. It fits in my hard shell suitcase with the head (Bogen 410 geared head) on it.

[Roger Richards]

Thanks so much for all your suggestions. After looking at the specs of all the tripods mentioned I am considering the 1228 over the 1227 and 1325. This tripod will be for foreign travel, and shaving dimensions while maintaining efficient performance is a priority. My specific reasons are:
1. Folds down to 21 inches comparedto 25 inches of the 1227 and 26 inches of the 1325.
2. Weight with an Acratech ballhead is about 5 pounds, a big consideration for me.
3. Brian made a very good point about the adaptibility of using the 1325 with a larger 4x5, or 5x7/8x10 camera. That is not an issue for me as I already own an Berlebach that will work for those formats. The Ebony 45s, which is quite light, was chosen because of the rapid set up ability, it is one of the non-folders. The longest lens I intend to use on this camera is a 210 Fujinon, maybe a 240 in future; my other lenses are Rodenstock 150 APO Sironar-S and Schneider 90 f8 Super Angulon. I also have a 90 5.6 Super Angulon for interiors/low light for better viewing ability.

What I am clueless about is the head, but like what I read about the Acratech. I am wondering what kind of quick release plate is required.

I am appreciative of all your help.

[Donald Hutton]

Roger

The Acratech uses any Arca Swiss style quick release plate - these are made by a number of companies - Really Right Stuff (who also make a ballhead which is arguably a lot nicer than the Arca Swiss, but also quite heavy), KirkPhoto and others. Have a look at their website (www.acratech.net) and give them a call - I have found them to be very helpful. Also, if you do go this route - have a think about a lever operated quick release instead of a knob - I find it far preferable to a knob - when you're looking at levels, you will never undo the wrong knob accidentally if it is a lever...

I find the combination of the Acratech and 1228 to be a perfect travel outfit. Not only is it shorter than the 1325: it is also considerably less bulky because of a much reduced net diameter. I recently bought some titanium spikes for mine - expensive, but I really much prefer them to the rubber feet (you can get the spikes at www.markinsamerica.com). For the ultimate in rigidity with the 1228, Markins sell a plate which replaces the center column and plastic top which is arguably a weak point for stability of the design.

[Laszlo]

Brian:
A correction. Gitzo rates the 1227 CF MK2 to 8kg (17.6 lbs). You are correct in saying that 1325 is rated higher (12 kg or ~26lbs), but 1227 should probably be okay with most 4x5 field cameras. The weight of the head (and the B-1 is pretty heavy) should probably be substracted from the tripod's rating to find the useful load.

Roger:
In my experience the B-1 is heavy for prolonged hikes and has a much higher weight rating than my 4x5 Tachihara needs. Sure, I love the way the B-1 is engineered and the fact that all three of my cameras (35mm, DSLR and 4x5) can use it with QR. I am nevertheless considering 'downgrading' to a lighter ballhead.

[Roger Richards]

You guys have been a great help, and I am sure the info in this thread will help a lot of people. Thanks for clearring up the weight issue, Laszlo, and the feedback on your B-1. I read a comparison article on the Acratech Web site between the Acratech and the Arca B-1 and it was essentially a tie, with the tester deciding on the Acratech for reasons of weight.

Don, I went to the Really Right Stuff site and am now trying to figure out which QR plate will work for my Ebony. Also, the stuff at Markins look great. Good info to help build a tripod to my working specs.

[Brian Ellis]

Laszlo - I got my information about the load capacity of the 1227 from the B&H catalog, which shows a capacity of 13.5 pounds. My catalog is a couple years old, maybe Gitzo has changed the tripod in some way during that time to increse its capacity.

[Jeffrey Sipress]

You don't need any "special" plate for a view camera. Just get a generic plate that has none of the flanges or pins that the camera specific plates have. Just a two inch long basic plate with a flat back.

And, the upgrade QR lever clamp from RRS is so very nice.

[Daniel Geiger]

I own both the 1228 with a Linhof profi II (for SLR) and the 1325 with Arca B1g (for Arca F-line 4x5). I would consider the 1228 to be barely minimal for 4x5 and suitable for ideal condition photography (no wind, level surface, ...). The 4 section design causes the set-up to be less stable, particularly when actually using the last section. Therefore, I'd suggest simply not to extend the last section for a sturdier set-up. Given that even fully extended I have to hunch over on the 1228 (I'm 6 feet tall), with one section less, that could become a real issue. Not a problem with bellyphotography, though.

Second, check that the tripod has the hook at the bottom of the center column. When I bought the 1228 some 8 years ago, it did not come with a hook. When I got the 1325 last year, it did come with it. Hang whatever you have in your bag from the hook to add weight and to lower the center of gravity. I've been hanging 20 pound backpacks from it with no ill effects, but rock solid.

just my 2c

[Roger Richards]

Thanks for clearing that up, Jeffrey. The feedback on your 1228 vs 1325 is appreciated, Daniel. I am of medium height so the extension of the 1228 is not an issue in my case. Also, my Ebony 45s is very lightweight and does not require a 'super' tripod; still, your counsel about windy conditions and even surfaces have been noted.

[Donald Hutton]

Daniel

If you bought your 1228 8 years ago, it would be the original version - the MarkII version which is what is available now (and has been for the past few years) is substantially improved and is perfectly suitable for 4X5 under most conditions. Last week, I used my venerable 1228 with an Acratech head with my Deardorff 8X10 and a weighty 355mm G-Claron - I left my other tripod at a friend's house and had to make do - while I wouldn't recommend the application (the rig was very substantially over the recommended specs for the 1228), it performed perfectly - 15lb camera and lens on a 3 pound tripod and head...

The Ebony is a flatbed type field camera so maintains more or less the same center of gravity on the tripod (which your AS does not, because of the monorail).

[Frank Petronio]

Ahh, but a monorial allows you to center the camera's COG perfectly, wheras a flatbed forces you into an unbalanced spot once you go long lenses. Nots that I use a flat bed, but not because I can center it.

I'd get the four section 1300 series with a B1. It is the conservative choice, and it is better to have too much than too little.

[Donald Hutton]

As a matter of fact, Frank, the 45S is a sort of triple extension non folder, so the center of gravity will stay in the same place at full extension. The point is, the center of gravity is not likely to change very much and its a small light camera - it weighs just over 4lbs I think, so getting a leg and head combination which is really designed around a 20lb outfit seems pretty pointless when he's actually looking for something "smaller and lighter than his Berlebach for walking around". I actually think buying another "heavier, conservative" outfit when he already owns one would be just plain stupid; and the advice to do so would have to fall into the same category.

[Lloyd Lim]

The G1026 and G1126 are the smallest tripods when folded up (only the tabletop tripod is smaller). They are also among the lightest, but have 4 section legs. In terms of weight capacity, the 1126 should be able to take 4 kg (9lb) which should be just right for the Ebony and a lightweight head like the acratech. I use a G1126 with a Arca B1 and a Arca F but only with lens up to 240mm and I have to weigh down the tripod with a bag on a hook.

[Lloyd Lim]

As an addon, I'm not sure about your height, but the max extension of the G1126 is nothing to scream at, so if you need something taller, a G1227 or G1228 may be a better fit at the cost of more weight and space.

[Frank Petronio]

Apologies for suggesting a too heavy tripod, I forgot about your Bereblach. Also apologies for Don Hutton being an ass.

[Donald Hutton]

Frank, if you can't read, I'm not the ass...

[robert_4927]

Personally I think a three-way head or pan head is a much better choice than any ball head for large format. I find a ball head worthless and a pain. Suppose you have to use a little tilt or pan with the head and you have already made some inticate movements with your camera. As soon as you crack the ball loose you can loose your entire setup and your back to making all your camera movements all over again. Also a quick release plate? Why? How often will you need to make a quick camera change with a field camera? I have used many quick releases when I was carrying two or three 35mm cameras with various lenses. But that was because I would need to change fast on the monopod or tripod. When hiking in at 5000 foot elevations just leave the head at home and attach directly to the tripod. This will save you weight and at 5000 ft trust me it can make a difference. Learn your camera movements and you can accomplish just about anything you want with proper tipod setups and without the use of a head. Now the carbon fiber tripod is a good choice. If you've ever carried a Ries up a mountain you'll know why. I love the 1228. I can put an 8x10 wisner pocket expedition and a heavy Artar lens on it with no problem and it could take even more. Now if you're going to be near the car and you just like using all these little gadgets like a quick release then go for it. When I see you fighting with that wobbly ball head and you have your bellows fully extended I will apologize in advance for laughing because I've seen it before and it is quite comical. But seriously consider a three-way head it will make your setups much more of a pleasant experience.

[Dominique Cesari]

Under my Ebony 45 S, I use a Gitzo 1228 + an Arca B1. If I hadn't yet an Arca, I would have gone for a Linhof Profi II to reduce the weight. With a light camera like the 45S, a ball head is convenient, and perfect to use with MF.
I think that a 3-way head is needed, as mentionned Robert, only for heavier camera, like 8x10, and preferably sturdier legs than the 1228/1227, the 1325 beeing perfect up to at least 10 pounds cameras.

[Roger Richards]

Thank you all for your help, much to think about. From all I have read and looking at my own requirements the 1228 tripod seems to be the way to go and the Acratech ball head because of extremely light weight. The combination of light weight and short length tips the balance. My Berlebach 3032 will do fine if I decide to move up in format to 8x10, which is possible in the future.

[Matt Long]

Roger:

I have both the 1325 and 1227 Gitzo CF tripods and I would recommend the 1227 for your travel needs. For a lightweight, yet sturdy tripod, I use a modified Gitzo 1227 CF when I don't want the bulk of the larger 1325. Following a conversation I had with Kerry Thalmann a couple years ago in which he outlined his modification process of replacing the center column of his 1227, I embarked on the modification of my own tripod. I started by purchasing a new hub for the Gitzo ($40-$50 if I recall) and milled down the threaded portion that holds the locking collar. I then used a lathe to turn down an aluminum plug that was press fit into the hub. This plug was center drilled and tapped to 3/8 to accept a threaded stud for mounting the tripod head as well as accepting the weight hook on the underside.

I don't know how confident you are in Gitzo's weight ratings, but the factory 1227 is rated to support 17.6 pounds. The modified 1227 is a great improvement in rigidity. Personally, I have always found some of the changes present in the Mk2 series to be less than desirable. By placing the locking collar between the hub and the circular camera platform (which is plastic), Gitzo has decreased the bearing surface of the platform (it is now suspended by the column instead of resting against the hub/leg assembly) and introduced a point subject to excessive flexure. Since you most likely wouldn't use a center column with LF, why have the additional weight of a component that you don't need? A modified 1227 would be pretty close in collapsed length to a stock 1228 (23 inches vs. 20.5 inches) and would be indentical in height (53.5 inches) -- all in a package weighing a tad less than 3 pounds. Additionally, I think that you would find the three leg sections of the 1227 to be more desirable than the four leg sections of the 1228 in terms of stability and ease of setup.

I have found the modifications to be well worth the effort, and if I ever decide to sell the tripod, I can always bolt on the original hub and center column assembly. I can email a pic of the modification if you are interested. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me at your convenience. Good luck.

Matt

[robert_4927]

Why even bother with the center column. As John Shaw (wildlife photographer) once told me. With a center column all you have is a monopod with legs. Go right to the tripod and forget the center column. It will be more stable.

[Juergen Sattler]

There is now an easier way to convert your 1228 or 1227 into a sturdy tripod without a center column. As another member of this forum pointed already out you can buy a "baseplate" from Markins for about $90 and it just replaces the center column - it's a two minute affair to go from center column to flat platform. Saves weight and adds to the sturdiness of the tripod. In addition it allows you to go really low - almost to ground level. Perfect solution.

[Roger Richards]

Matt and Juergen, thanks. I much prefer a tripod without the center column, hence my purchase of the Berlebach 3032, which has an integrated leveling ball head without center column. I am looking into the suggestion on the modification via Markins, which Don Hutton initially mentioned but I guess I did not fully ingest.

[Bernard Languillier]

Another vote for the Gitzo 1227, currently with an Acratrch ballhead, soon to be replaced by a RRS BH-55.

Regards,
Bernard

[William D. Lester]

Roger

I use a Gitzo 1228 MK II with a Manfrotto 410 geared haed with my Technika V. I would be hard pressed to want to try and improve on it.

[Harley Goldman]

I have a 1325 with the Acratech ballhead. I shoot an Arca F-Line classic. The Arcratech does a great job of holding the Arca, not a tiny camera. I can tighten it down and walk around with the camera over my shoulder with virtually no slippage. Tripod is excellent!

For backpacking and occasionally on long hikes, I substitute a Gitzo 1127 and/or a Toho camera. The 1127 is a little light for the Arca, although it does a decent job. It works great with the Toho. I carry a small mesh bag that I fill with rocks and hang from the hook to add stability when needed. I would think the 1228, being bigger, would work great with your setup. You can't go wrong with the Acratech.

Harley

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

As another member of this forum pointed already out you can buy a "baseplate" from Markins for about $90 and it just replaces the center column - it's a two minute affair to go from center column to flat platform. Saves weight and adds to the sturdiness of the tripod.

While the Markins solution is certainly a lot easier than the modifcations Matt and I have performed on our 1227s, I question if it actually saves any significant amount of weight. According to the Markins web site, it weighs about 4.25 oz. I don't have it handy, but I think the center column from my 1227 weighed 5 - 6 oz. So, you save perhaps an ounce to an ounce and three quarters. If weight savings is your goal (along with improved stability), the modification will save more weight than the Markins product. Not only to you save the weight of the center column, but for the permanent modification, you also mill away a significant amount of metal. My modified 1227 is 7½ oz. lighter than it was when it came from the factory. Not a HUGE savings, but it's almost half a pound - AND the modified tripod better suits my needs.

Of course, the Markins solution is easier, is reversible and since you don't mill away the threaded nipple where it screws onto the legs, it's also 15mm (0.6") taller.

Too bad Gitzo doesn't just offer a version of the 1227 with a flat top plate. That would be the best solution. It would be lighter and sturdier than the current version with the center column, and should cost less, too. Certainly less than buying one with a center column, removing it and replacing it with a $90 product from a third party.

Kerry

[Hans Berkhout]

Whatever compromise suits best. I use the G1228 with Markins spikes added. I have never seen proof that the centre column (when tightened++ and fully shoved down) contributes to instability. I certainly don't like/trust the factory installed rubber (plastic?) caps at the legs' tips in this regard. I compensate (compromise) for the added (the spikes) weight by not packing every lens I own, wearing lighter boots etc. As mentioned by others, you can suspend weight from the centre column. Don't use it to increase tripod height.
The Markins spikes are of no use indoors: the spikes could damage the floor, the caps are slippery.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

I use the G1228 with Markins spikes added. I have never seen proof that the centre column (when tightened++ and fully shoved down) contributes to instability.

Even if the center doesn't add instability when it is shoved down and locked tiight, it certainly adds weight and provides no other benefit to me (I will not use it raised, as that definitely reduces stability).

I use the G1228 with Markins spikes added.

The "Markins solution" I was referring to was their TB-20 (http://www.markins.com/2.0/eng/products/accessories/tb.html) tripod base, not the titanium spikes, which I admit look appealing. As I shoot mostly outdoors, I may have to get a set for both my 1227 and my 1325.

Kerry

[Struan Gray]

On stability: I use a Sinar Norma and my main tripod is a 1349. For MF and 35 mm I have and Arca Swiss B1 which works wonderfully, but it was too resonant when I tested it with 465 mm and 600 mm lenses on the monorail. It was usable, but in a wind - and where I shoot there is always a wind - the 600 mm never settled down enough to take a picture.

I found a beat up Norma-era Sinar pan-tilt head on the used market. It is lighter, and more solid than the B1. It has a large-ish mounting plate, and wide-area locking surfaces, so there is no spindly stub or small-area contact to allow flex. I would miss the flexibility of the ballhead in smaller formats, but for LF it's no big deal. Sadly, nobody makes a truly lightweight version, of this sort of head but it's sufficiently good, that I would use it on a set of 12xx or 11xx legs if I could justify their purchase.

[Struan Gray]

Monday morning brainfart on Wednesday? Must be getting old.

I meant to add: with both heads the camera was noticably more resonant with the center column than with a flat plate. I haven't had any problems with the center column in smaller formats, but the torques exerted by the long lever arms of a fully-extended LF camera are just too much for the junction to cope.

[Roger Richards]

Thank you Bernard, Harley, Kerry, Struan, William and Hans. This thread has become a textbook for anyone looking for a lightweight 'pod...so many options that all work for different people.