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Myriophyllum
15-Dec-2016, 15:51
Hi,

I've been using Centennial POP paper by Kentmere (Aristotypie) for some years.
Some of my photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/136145166@N02/albums/72157676072065411.
With Centennial being discontinued, APP Collodio POP is/was a equal replacement for me... it seems to be unavailable now, i still have some papers, but I have to look for something similar in future.

Any ideas what I could take? I like Adox Lupex, but it is no POP, tonality and depth are different.
I prefer surfaces like glossy baryta papers, so doing salt prints or Pd/Pt on matte paper isn't an alternative.

Greetings
Jens

Mark Sampson
15-Dec-2016, 18:36
Jens,
The last producer/retailer of PoP in the USA was Chicago Albumen Works. I think theirs was called 'Centennial' as well, perhaps it was the same Kentmere product; in any case it's been gone for some years now. c.1979/81 I was a photographer for a regional chain of portrait studios, and they still sent out unfixed 'red proofs' to their customers, in the time-honored fashion. They were made on Kodak Studio Proof paper, now long gone. I didn't realize, then, how to use that paper to make permanent prints; and I did not use large-format cameras in my personal work at the time. An opportunity missed... good luck in your search!

jnanian
15-Dec-2016, 19:37
hi jens

APP is that victor of alternative photo products ?
in one of steve anchell's darkroom cookbooks
there is a recipe that mark osterman wrote up on how to do it.
https://books.google.com/books?id=u67OCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT362&lpg=PT362&dq=darkroom+cookbook+aristotype&source=bl&ots=89XloW_uE_&sig=y49Y7YVlECIGrj5dgNeER0eIwcw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwju7Oyw1_fQAhVriVQKHSGQBfUQ6AEIITAB#v=onepage&q=darkroom%20cookbook%20aristotype&f=false

probably you don't want to make it yourself but just in case ...

john

Myriophyllum
15-Dec-2016, 20:06
hi jens

APP is that victor of alternative photo products ?...

probably you don't want to make it yourself but just in case ...

john

Hi John,

right, alternative photo products...
I've collected some recipes from there, some day it will be the only way to go. Not easy to do...
The main problem would be to get the surface glossy like FB paper, i could live with some handmade irregularities.

I should have concentrated more on POP since I got my first paper of that look in the 1990s (a Guilleminot POP).

Yours
Jens

peter schrager
15-Dec-2016, 21:08
I took a class at George eastman house and learned how to make the pop paper..not that hard and you're in control
Contact mark Osterman...

peter schrager
15-Dec-2016, 21:12
Maybe I should come to Germany and give a workshop

jnanian
15-Dec-2016, 22:52
Hi John,

right, alternative photo products...
I've collected some recipes from there, some day it will be the only way to go. Not easy to do...
The main problem would be to get the surface glossy like FB paper, i could live with some handmade irregularities.

I should have concentrated more on POP since I got my first paper of that look in the 1990s (a Guilleminot POP).

Yours
Jens

i've never made this tyoe of emulsion, just silver gelatin emulsion and while it seems like an extremely difficult task with lots of different
chemicals and procedures it is mostly about things being clean and amounts, like beermaking if you have ever done that... sanitary-stuff and amounts.
i made my first emulsion as a college student in the 80s, it wasn't very hard. i made some after a long hiatus a handful of months ago, again, not really hard, like
baking a loaf of bread with the last part in a red light ... seeing this paper isn't made anymore i'd look to making it yourself, there is nothing like handmade emulsion !


I took a class at George eastman house and learned how to make the pop paper..not that hard and you're in control
Contact mark Osterman...

+1


Maybe I should come to Germany and give a workshop

+1 !

talk about fun !
john

Myriophyllum
16-Dec-2016, 05:24
Hi,

thanks for all your replies, I' get me "The Darkroom Cookbook first.
I already have "The book of alternative photographic processes" by Christopher James with lots of info about POP (and so many great photographs)...

@jnanian:
funny, that you mentioned beer making, indeed I've done it.
From germinating barley for my own malt 'til breewing... It was fun. :-)

Greetings
Jens

Joe O'Hara
16-Dec-2016, 08:09
You know, I haven't tried this myself, but you might be able to used fixed-out, unhardened glossy
silver-gelatin paper as a base. It's just gelatin on top of the baryta at that point, so I don't see why
you couldn't make salt prints with it (i.e., calotypes).

I may give that a try over the holiday break if we have some sunny days, I'll let you know how it goes.

sanking
16-Dec-2016, 08:41
You know, I haven't tried this myself, but you might be able to used fixed-out, unhardened glossy silver-gelatin paper as a base. It's just gelatin on top of the baryta at that point, so I don't see why you couldn't make salt prints with it (i.e., calotypes).
I may give that a try over the holiday break if we have some sunny days, I'll let you know how it goes.

There are some issues in coating emulsions on fixed out silve gelatin papers. One person who has done this is Craig Koshyk, and you can get a .pdf document of his procedures at,

http://www.craigkoshykphoto.ca/vouloir-pouvoir.pdf

Sandy

dwross
16-Dec-2016, 09:28
The Eastman Museum Collodio POP is a lovely thing. The prints are very special (if I may use an overused word). That is certainly an excellent way to go. There used to be plain glossy baryta paper for sale. Is that still out there? If so, much better than fixed-out old paper.

If anyone is interested in silver gelatin POP, by coincidence I'm currently working on a website page for a recipe and technique. If it weren't for the holidays with so much going on I'd probably have it done in a week, but alas, I go deep in on Solstice and Christmas. Look for it soon after New Year's on The Light Farm. Coated on handmade baryta paper, it has a high sheen, almost as glossy as commercial calendered paper. To my eye, it has a whole lot more character than high gloss, super smooth paper (but I may be biased :)).

Myriophyllum
16-Dec-2016, 13:59
Hi Sandy,

thank You very much for that very interesting link, that could be a way to go for me...

Greetings
Jens

peter schrager
16-Dec-2016, 19:16
Freestate has Baryta paper but I've heard mixed reviews and haven't tried it myself. ..I bought some Baryta through the formulary several years ago and it works great

peter schrager
16-Dec-2016, 19:17
Is victor still in business? ? Link to his website?

Myriophyllum
17-Dec-2016, 04:59
Is victor still in business? ? Link to his website?
Hej Peter, the website seems to be down... http://www.altphotoproducts.com/ :-(

dwross
17-Dec-2016, 05:50
Hopefully the altphotoproducts website is just down for a bit. Also, it looks like the Formulary is not carrying plain baryta paper currently. I'll use this as an excuse for a plug about learning to make our own materials. Not everyone wants to, of course, and even if a favorite item disappears, there are often alternatives or another process altogether. But still, there is artistic/spiritual security in D.I.Y. and/or laying down a stock of something. I've got a stock of photo-grade gelatin and Marshall's photo dyes.

Tim Meisburger
17-Dec-2016, 05:54
Hopefully the altphotoproducts website is just down for a bit. Also, it looks like the Formulary is not carrying plain baryta paper currently. I'll use this as an excuse for a plug about learning to make our own materials. Not everyone wants to, of course, and even if a favorite item disappears, there are often alternatives or another process altogether. But still, there is artistic/spiritual security in D.I.Y. and/or laying down a stock of something. I've got a stock of photo-grade gelatin and Marshall's photo dyes.

Denise, I'm stuck in a small apartment in DC this winter, and think I might give this a go. What do you recommend as the simplest or easiest emulsion for a beginner to try?

dwross
17-Dec-2016, 07:21
Oy. Small apt in the winter. Been there. You definitely need a engaging activity. Emulsion making to the rescue :).

Making paper is easier than dry plates or film, not because of the basic recipe but because the working area can be easier. Coated film or glass needs a dead-flat area and more time to dry than paper. Almost dead-flat works for paper and it's still a puzzle to me that "almost" is so much easier to accomplish.

My favorite paper is the Kodabromide-type in my book. You can read it free in Blurb preview. http://www.blurb.com/books/6465389-the-light-farm

Another very easy one, with a few video instructions, is in the web tutorials on TLF. I have gotten a lot of very positive feedback from people who have learned the basics of paper, dry plate, and film from the tutorials. They are sequential and build step by step, so you have to start from the beginning, but hopefully it's time worth spending.

Very few people have dedicated darkroom space these days and emulsion-making, despite the rumors, is as easy an alternative process as any and more so than most. If you have a second bathroom, that's all you really need to go deluxe, but any space that's clean'ish and can be kept under safelight conditions while needed works just fine. Except with panchromatic materials, red LED mini-lights are absolutely ideal for emulsion making and processing.

I hope you give it a try. Please feel absolutely free to ask any questions along the way. Best of luck this winter. d

stawastawa
20-Dec-2016, 22:10
I think APP has some products available on ebay

DrTang
21-Dec-2016, 09:31
... it is mostly about things being clean... sanitary-stuff and amounts.



Whelp...count me out

Arne
22-Dec-2016, 15:35
Denise, your work on silver POP sounds very interesting. Please keep me informed when you know more after the holidays.

dwross
22-Dec-2016, 18:08
Denise, your work on silver POP sounds very interesting. Please keep me informed when you know more after the holidays.

Hi Arne, I most definitely will! d

dwross
19-Jan-2017, 14:04
http://thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmleditiongen.py?chapter=POPBasics

Hope it's useful!