4x5 handheld viewfinder?

[Calamity Jane]

If you are hand-holding a 4x5 what can you use as a viewfinder?

Focus isn't a problem - I can mark the front slide with distance - but I don't know how to frame a shot except by guess-and-by-gosh and pure dumb luck.

I have seen pictures of some old folders with some kind of a viewfinder mounted on the board but I have never seen one first hand to know if/how they work.

[John Kasaian]

Calamity,

I've got a viewfinder on my Crown Graphic which I don't use. I prefer the sportsfinder, a square shaped frame of metal that folds or telescopes up from the front standard. Not really precise but it fits in with my notion of taking grab shots with lf. Another solution is the one on my Gowland Aerial. Take a look at Peters website www.petergowland.com for an example. It consists of a rear "peep" sight and a front frame. Put the peep in the middle of the frame and you're "on" You could probably cobble something up using a Marble's or Lyman tang sight often seen used on old Winchesters for the rear part and a cut out rectangle for the front.

Good luck!

[RichSBV]

Look to the Graphic cameras like the Crown and Speed!

Except for the wire frame 'Sports finder' on the Graphics, they all use lenses. This allows the physical size to be smaller than a no-optic viewfinder would be to get the field of view.

I suppose you could make your own, but you'd have to find and play with small lenses...
You could easily make a wire fram sports finder like the Graphics.

Or you could buy a finder. The Graphic tube finders come up occasionally in the 25 to 45 range. They can use slide in masks to duplicate anything from a 90mm through 380mm lenses. Linhoff also has an external finder, but it's expensive!

The old folder cameras, if I'm thinking of the same thing, is at least one lens in front. Bounced off a mirror on the inside to reflect up at 90 degrees. Made to use at approximately waist level and a very poor view. I have one laying around here someplace. It's fun to use but not the best... If you've ever seen the Gossen Luna Pro spot attachment, it's the same idea...

[Will Strain]

I believe fotoman makes a 4x5 adjustable optic finder. You set the angle to match that of whatever lens you use. Not the cheapest solution in the world, but clean and about as accuarate as you can get for this purpose IMO.

(others make similar items... accesory finders from cosina/voightlander for instance - just find the 35mm equiv to the angle of view you want)

[David A. Goldfarb]

Linhof makes a finder that can be adjusted for different focal lengths and subject distances. New ones are quite expensive, but they work like a zoom lens so the image in the finder is always the same size. Old ones are simpler, in that the image gets smaller as the focal length increases, but they do the job and can be had for under $200.

[tor kviljo]

If You are using a Chrown or other camera with back permanently attached on horizontal, you can attach the optical (wide-angle) viewfiders from the Mamiya Press series (made for 50 & 65mm) & Polaroid 600 SE (made for 75mm = 90mm on 4"x5") , or you can hunt down one of the wire-frame finders made for Bronica ETR 645, mamiya RB 67 (probably also Mamiya 645). These finders are rarely used by SLR people, can be had cheaply, and do usually have multiple frames for different fl. Folds flat for transport. FL. on finders readily translated to FL for 4"x5" format. Frames for 6x4.5 & 6x7 is about identical in ratio h/l to 4"x5". Frame finders for bronica/mamiya should be yours for $$ 15-30, the optical for Mamiya Press a bit more. If You have a rotating back LF, You will probably rather have the Linhof style viewfinder with its' possibility for orienting H/V. The newer Linhof viewfinder is much better but also much rarer used & more expensive. Veeeery rarely, the expensive Horseman equivalent is for sale also. Ebay is usually the place, try ebay Germany for Linhof stuff.

[Struan Gray]

Just for completeness: MPP sold a "Polyfocus" finder similar to the older Linhof one that is usually cheaper - when you can find one.

I used a Pentax 110 SLR for a while until I got used to how 4x5 'sees'. Much cheaper than the LF doodads, you can take record shots as you go, and the lenses make good loupes too.

[martin_4668]

Consider a Cambo Wide finder. It is of superp quality and you can get masks from 47mm on 4x5 and upwards....and it looks really nice as well.
Personally I use/prefer the versatile and bright Linhof finder.....

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Taking into account that a viewfinder defines a certain angular range, any frame / wire or optical viewfinder designed for any format will do the job, you'll have eventually to adjust a mask to the proper rectangular film format and compute the equivalent focal length for 4x5". For example viewfinders designned for 35 mm "rangefinder" cameras will be OK. there is a Russian Zorki copy of the vintage Contax multi-focus, non-zoom, viewfinder with a rotary-type switchable fixed focal length kit, like in older movie cameras.
I have the older type Linhof zoom-type multi-focal viewfinder but this is not a high eyepoint optical system, and wearing glasses, the device is not very comfortable to me, I loose a lot of angular range because I cannot put my eye close enough to the eyepiece. The newer Linhof design solves the problem... for a nominal cost equivalent to a dozen of used 35 mm reflex film cameras that can, incidentally, serve also as a multi-focus viewfinder as well, before being discarded ;-);-), but not of course attached to a do-it-yourself hand-held 4x5" camera !!

[Kevin Crisp]

If you're interested in cheap (and this is YOU asking the question, right?) then you might pick up a Kodak "Vigilant" camera on ebay. These go for nothing since most of the bellows are dried out and they use 620 film. See, for example, current auction 7513493360. On top is a flip up viewfinder which is optical and folds flat. You could take that off and screw it to the top of your camera. This is probably more or less a normal view for the 6X9 image I think the camera shot, so it might be more or less right for a normal lens on 4X5. You could easily mask it off if it shows you too much. A more expensive option would be to pick up an optical viewfinder off a junk Crown or Speed graphic, make sure you get the mounting plate it slides into. These are often on eB** too and you can probably pick one up for $30 or less. I find the optics of the graflex viewfinder pretty marginal, but you can use it for general framing. Seeing small details (what are the people doing you are photographing?) is extremely difficult, at least for me, so the cheap option is probably just as good. If you want to email me off the forum I might be able to come up with a Vigilant you can have. Good luck.

[Darin Boville]

I've got a metal viewfinder by Gowland--not the aerial frame one--this one is a lens in a silver metal casing. Never seen one before but you can see it on his web page. I got it when I bought by Toyo and have never used it. If this is the sort of thing you are interested in let me know offline--I was just about to e-bay it.

darin@darinboville.com

--Darin

[ronald lamarsh]

I use a Linhof Tech III with the Linhof sports finder. It has 2 wire frames, one for 150mm and one for 240mm. I've found that the 150mm works great with my 180mm lens: it seems that most wire finders are sized a little bit big so it makes a pretty tight composition with a slightly longer lens.

[Calamity Jane]

Thanks for all the ideas folks! I just might go hunting for a low-value camera with a removable viewfinder.

For waist level shooting I think a small 45-degree mirror with a rectangular opening above the mirror and one in front should work, if the size of the openings and the distance between them match the lens in use. Something like that wouldn't be hard to make from wood, brass and shop scraps and would look right at home on an old folder!

Geez! I get some of my best ideas from this group! ;-)

[Dave Moeller]

I've been considering checking a hardward store for the "peep sites" that are installed into doors; it seems to me that with proper masking they should make a reasonable (and very inexpensive!) viewfinder. I'll let you know if I have any luck.

[Struan Gray]

The mirror idea, or a prism, is very common on the old rollfilm folders from the 'bicycle' era at the start of the twentieth century. They tend to have a lens either side of the mirror to give enough eye relief for waistish level holding. The one on my 1920s 6x9 folder is simple and easy to use, but is of course for a fixed focal length.

[Carlos]

I have a Busch Pressman. It drove me crazy the fact that I had to put a cloth over to see what I was doing.
Anyway, I bought a used Cambo viewfinder, then I modified it to fit the opening where the folding was.
I tried to do it with lenses ... and mirrors but the issued is
You need front coated mirrors, not easy to find (surplus store, etc) and the mirrors a too thick.
You also need lenses to (probably 300mm focal length) to view the ground glass.
You have to mount them so it gets a bit committed. Not impossible, but it you never done it before it could be quiet a task.

Hand held ... with out some how a view finder that will triangulate your distances ...
It could be done by hyperphocal distance so if you shoot at f22 you know that every thing infinity and the focal length will be in focus. Just like a point and shoot.
Good luck!

[David Van Gosen]

Dave - I've got one of those door viewers here. They're very wide angle, but they will work. Also, you can swap the elements around inside to get a small change in the angle of view. The front of mine just unscrews.

[Dave Moeller]

David-

Thanks for the information. During a web search last night I noted that there is particular style of door viewer that has a very large rear element, but the front doesn't look like the standard lens. Rather, it looks like two rectangular openings. The back of the site looks like it'd be great for using as a viewfinder, but the front looks like it might be tough to mask. I'm wondering if you have any experience with this type.

I'm going to head to the hardware store tomorrow to pick up an assortment of cheap viewers to start with; I'll keep the idea of swapping elements in mind as it'll probably make it easier to get a set that gets close to the angle of view I'm looking for.

Again, thanks for the information.

Be well.
Dave

[David Van Gosen]

Dave - The one I've got is about an inch across the front, 5/16 across the rear, and fits into a half-inch hole. The center tube has a long threaded section to adapt to different door thicknesses. It's brass, and was $3 or $4 at a big discount store. I'm using it for a 65mm on 4x5. You could definitely mask one of these, but the field of view might feel too small for a normal lens.

I'm not familiar with any others.