Where To Fly To...Mid-Late December??

[appletree]

So...last year I went to Portland (see below) around Christmas time and got some great advice, as always.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5567/30391989360_bb13a9c082_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NiCTAy)
I'll Be Fine (https://flic.kr/p/NiCTAy) by Johnathon Powers (https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnathonpowers/), on Flickr

Itching to go somewhere again this year, maybe for 5-6 days. I don't mind camping (an Eagle Scout and still camp when I can), or sleeping in the back of a rental car. I am not opposed to staying in a hostel or Airbnb too.

Really want to go to Yosemite at some point or maybe once in snow time and another in spring or fall. Not sure if Yosemite is a horrible idea in December or not.
Thought about getting a ticket to go spend a week in the Atacama Desert in Chile.

If international I would like to stay around $1k for a ticket. Hard with a short notice as this. Really want to go to Iceland at some point. But alas, once again maybe I plan it a bit better. Staying in the states obviously has it's advantages. But I was in France, Turkey, Rep of Georgia earlier this year so I am fine with traveling.

Also, please give me some advice not just locations. If you have experience of some place (bonus if in the winter time) that is appreciated. Thanks!!!

PS: Found out I can carry over vacation days (new policy this year), but I have a few I need to burn. So I could take a short trip 3-4 days and take advantage of holiday days, then something longer next year sometime.

[peter schrager]

I've been to Chile and the Atacama desert...there's also La Serena which is supposed to be lovely. don't forget you will have to fly to Santiago and then take another flight to Atacama. I enjoyed being there but only spent a few days. you might want to go to Bolivia instead as I understand it's like going back in time. hope you find a great destination...
Best, Peter

[tgtaylor]

Unless they have changed it, US citizens flying into Santiago will have to pay an additional $100US in cash to Chilean immigration at the airport before being allowed to enter. The fee is good for 10 years and they stamp its payment in your passport. However you can fly into Argentina without paying the fee and bus into Chile.

Our December is summer in Chile and an ideal time to visit Torrie del Paines national park which can be reached via Santiago or Argentina. If entering at Santiago, I wouid recommend checking out taking a NaviMag ferry through the Chilean fjords from Puerto Montt (about a 150 or so mile bus ride south from Santiago) to Puerto Natales (~3 days), check in and leave the heavy stuff at a very affordable and trustworthy "hospije" (sp) - they will be waiting for you when you disembark from the ferry, and spend a few days backpacking in the park which you can access by bus or, in my case, by boat. For return take the bus at Puerto Natales to Punta Arena which is about 100 miles south and catch a plane back to Santiago or wherever.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Out of curiosity I just did an online fare search for leaving SFO (San Francisco) to Santiago on 12/5 and returning 12/15 (10 days). $1,018.00 - not bad for December. However the one-way flight from Punta Arenas would be extra.

Thomas

[appletree]

Yeah. Looks like I could go from the 14th of Dec to the 24thish for around 1000-1100 bucks for a flight.
Other expenses down there should be fairly affordable, I would assume. I was in Peru 5ish years ago and it was very affordable.

Why Chile? No real specific reason, just read it is a good place to go this time of year (being in the southern hemisphere and all).

And WOW to Torrie del Paines National Park. Beautiful place it seems.

[Willie]

Kanab, Utah and Hole in the Rock where you can camp, photograph red rock desert and overlook Lake Powell with few around.

[tgtaylor]

National Geographic rates Torre del Paines the 5th most beautiful place in the world.

Thomas

[appletree]

Thanks for all the advice.
10 days should be long enough, right?
Is this something I can plan in a month and half?
I mean, my buddy and I were flying standby and we decided to go to Peru while at the airport in Newark...so I mean, I guess one finds a way.

I could go in January (roll the vacation over) and save around 200ish on plane tickets. But I lose the "free day" of vacation on the 24th and it is nice since December is generally dead around the office (am an engineer).

[appletree]

In regards to Utah. That is nice. And I am not opposed to staying in the states. So much to see here alone.

And I "know" someone who does night photography in Utah and has offered for me to go with him. We talked about a month ago and he said only problem would be the cold. Especially since he, personally, shoots so much night photography (https://www.instagram.com/valleyofdyingstars/). But to let him know if I end up taking a trip to Utah.

[Vaughn]

If you wanted to stay in the USA, you could hit the lower (and warmer) deserts...In Death Valley your friend would have long nights to photograph in! Southern Arizona (Saguaro National Monument and missions), and back in California -- Joshua Tree NP and Anza Borrego Desert State Park (and the ruins of Salton Sea resorts) would all be warmer and less likely for bad weather than Utah.

Nice to be able to pick a destination!

[Leszek Vogt]

My suggestion would be along with what Vaughn said, but with a little twist. Organ Pipe has similar cactuses, there is Why (oh, why not) and there is Ajo with that great little church to photograph...Joshua + DV and if you hit it properly, you might arrive at Yosemite just after a snow storm > pure magic. But, you'd have to really scan the weather. Who knows, it just might work out.

Les

[appletree]

Yeah this sounds amazing. I think I plan Chile with a bit more time. And get someone to tag along with me for that trip.

But southern California is tempting. I was working in NW Texas a few months ago and wanted to go on a road trip to Shiprock, NM and shoot around for a few days. I even had the friend watching my cats back home pack up all my LF gear and get it ready to ship to me. But, the timing never ended up working out.

So, perhaps fly to Phoenix? Then drive and camp from there to Yosemite?
Along the way I could stop at some of the following (I will research):


Ajo (love old churches)
Saguaro
Salton Sea Resorts (love stuff like this)
Joshua Tree
Death Valley
Then cap it off at Yosemite (depending on weather)


A separate trip to Yosemite will happen in the next year or so....I am dying to go there and spend a week or more.

I could fly back from Sacramento and return the vehicle there.
Edit: Nvm. Rental car goes from about 350 to 1050 to return it in Sacramento. So, I will make a loop. In this case I will probably go from the 14th or 15th to the 24th.

Is this do-able in 7-10 days? (just throwing that number out there)

[Vaughn]

I would leave Yosemite for another trip...just so you would not be rushed in southern Arizona and CA.

Mission out side Tuscon, AZ...

[appletree]

Wow that is an amazing photo.

Well, I was considering making my way to Sacramento anyway, just because a friend is up there I was considering visiting for a day or two.
But perhaps the 10 days will be too crunched.

I will map out the locations and then driving time...then see what all makes sense/is feasible. Would be nice if I could at least see Yosemite in the wake of a snowy downfall.

[Drew Wiley]

I dunno even about trying to bag all that here in Calif on your schedule. Death Valley and that whole general area are wonderful to visit in Dec provided you are
car-camping self-contained per food, water, and a warm sleeping bag. The only two civilized spots in DV, Furnace Creek and Stovepipe Wells, get awfully crowded with LA motorhome sunbirds around the holidays. But if you are self-contained, there are many other options. Over on Hwy 395 its hard to say how heavy the ski crowd will be heading toward Mammoth. It all depends on the snow. But generally Lone Pine, Big Pine, and Bishop aren't too crowded in winter. Getting over the top and into central California (Sacto, Yos, etc) is a total crap shoot in winter. Allow two days from DV either over Donner of across the Mojave, if a route is open at all. Hard to predict snow levels this far out. Don't underestimate how cold the desert can get at night. It takes a lot of luck to get a fluffy postcardly powder snow in Yosemite Valley in Dec, or some years at all. Might just be gloomy. The eastern Sierra can be more cooperative in that respect because sometimes the paved side roads are still open in winter up to relatively high elevations.

[appletree]

Hmm, thanks Drew for the advice and input. Looks like I will more than likely be flying into San Diego. Then have 9 (almost 10) full days and fly back on the evening of the 10th (flying from Sacramento).

Working backwards will be the 9th day in Sac to visit friend.
The 7th and 8th day will be in hopes of Yosemite (time to safely get from DV to Sacramento)
Days 5, 6, and 7 (same deal, leave early) can be in Death Valley. Seems like one could easily spend more days there.
Day 4 and 5 (leave mid morning, drop him off in Vegas on way to DV) in Horseshoe Bend area
Day 2 and 3 in Joshua Tree (leave around noon and go stay in/near Flagstaff)
Day 1, get there in AM and go visit Salton Sea Resort, then camp at Joshua Tree

It is nearly the same mileage if I squeeze in Southern Arizona (Organ Pipe / Ajo) or try to loop around to Northern Arizona.
About 1600 miles either one. Average of 3-4 hrs of driving per day (obviously more on days I am driving vs getting to location).

In the end I may just need to nix Arizona and travel north up through California.
But actually, if my buddy tags along with me for the first half I could drop him off at the Las Vegas Airport.

http://i.imgur.com/CrzDWkzh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8sTj147h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UruNjzZh.jpg

[seabee1999]

Looks like a fun trip. I'll have to remember these routes in a few years when I retire out of the navy. It should be around this timeframe in 2018. Before I start a second career, I have a desire to do a 2+ week camping/photo expedition before moving on from California.

R/
Dave

[Drew Wiley]

Trying to squeeze Arizona in too???? Gosh. Hope you like sitting in a car seat hours and hours and hours on end. You might want to save some time to actually look at things and take a few pictures. You'll wish you had six months off and not ten days. The variety of scenery in California alone will make you wish you had
far more time. And unpredictable weather might not give you a choice!

[appletree]

Trying to squeeze Arizona in too???? Gosh. Hope you like sitting in a car seat hours and hours and hours on end. You might want to save some time to actually look at things and take a few pictures. You'll wish you had six months off and not ten days. The variety of scenery in California alone will make you wish you had
far more time. And unpredictable weather might not give you a choice!

Ha, I can always leave it to Mr. Wiley for honest advice. And my original idea was Arizona. But it makes more sense (with flights and driving) to fly into San Diego first. That changes things a lot.
And yes, I know I could spend months there, but not feasible for me. I am willing to bet that even with only 1-2 days I can see a decent amount (not quantity, but quality). Get to a place, set up camp/SUV, then sight see and hike for a day or two. Then on to the next place. Perhaps, it gives me an idea of where I would like to come back and spend days/weeks/months at one day.

To each his own of course. But yes, I will look at everything as it gets closer and the weather and may have to play what comes between A to Z on the fly.



In regards to the crap-shoot that is Yosemite in the winter, what is the best/worst outcome? A good wintry snowfall and drive-able roads? Versus gloomy and dark days, with poor road conditions?

[Leszek Vogt]

Depending on what your priority is (Yos + snow), you may want to align your trip/destinations so you are within a day or two to pounce on the opportunity. The way I worked it out (knowing that snow storm was "clearing" already), I ended up in a motel at Oakhurst....till they cleared the roads in the park. Ha, camping was out of the question (too stinkin cold). You can't count on Tioga Rd (Rte 120) being open....due to height and it could be shut at any moment> killing your access from E. Sierra....post October. Currently the pass is shut down "temporarily" (???). Anyway, NPS in general keep the roads to and in Yos accessible...as they are interested in revenue stream (to the valley). In any case, it's a worthy goal. However, it's incredibly difficult to predict when (or if) the snow will fall...considering that Calif received v. little snow (or moisture) in the recent years. Additionally, the storm could be rolling from SF to Yos, but v. often it can fizzle out too....before it gets there. Yeah, as if you want to deal with more unknowns. :rolleyes:

You could explore Sequoia, Kings Canyon, DV, Joshua, etc. while keeping an eye on the weather in Yos. Anyway, keep it real and try to camp at lower elevations. Exactly month ago I camped at KC (6700ft) and woke up to 30.5F (28 deg earlier) and it's way colder by now. Ha, even my 25 degree sleeping bag couldn't keep me cozy enough (REI bag rating is faulty)....but that's a different subject.

Anyhoo, hope everything lines up as intended....and you can do some snow angels.:o

Les

[jp]

This looks like a fun trip. I've been itching for a west trip too.. Perhaps arrive in San Jose or SF, head down the coast a bit, then across to Death Valley, explore Nevada, Jim Galli's area, then up to Utah to the salt flats and return through SLC.

I'm fond of the "Vanishing Point" movie, but not in that much of a hurry.

[Drew Wiley]

Instead of Arizona, there is some utterly gorgeous low desert in Anza-Borrego State Park, a rather large area right on the southern border of San Diego County,
and photographically quite reminiscent of Death Valley, but with a true palm oasis, along with an inner irrigated area analogous to Furnace Creek. It's relatively
close to that Salton Sea area. By after these substantial storms of the past week, Tioga Pass is probably closed for good (the first major storm of Nov is the traditional formal closure); and the Kings Canyon road is also probably closed, though they keep the big trees area of Grant Grove open year round. The southern entrance into Yosemite can be wretchedly slow after a snowfall, due both to skier traffic up to Badger Pass and the long winding road in general. The El Portal route from Mariposa is nearly always open. Donner Pass connecting Reno to Sacto is rarely closed, but it does happen in Dec and Jan. But I still can't get a handle on trying to visit all these places in one trip. What ever happened to "quality time"? Your two key resources to current highways conditions are the respective National Park websites, along with the California Highway Patrol recorded road report.

[Drew Wiley]

jp - both SF and San Jose are wretched airports to fly into. Hectic. Oakland is far more convenient. Nevada can be very cold and isolated in Fall and Winter, with
significant distances between services, even gas stations. But that's much of its appeal. I've been snowed in as long as three days at a time there. What can be
fatal for someone not properly prepared can be downright fun if you have sufficient supplies, a good sleeping bag, a pair of snowshoes and good boots, and a
decent tripod with serious spike feet. The Nevada skies can be outright boring, or on the other hand, utterly magical under storm conditions. From the air it's an
incredible landscape. But unless you're particularly ambitious, it easier to just visit the margins of it within an hour or two of the eastern Sierra and Hwy 395,
with Mono Lk or Bridgeport as a connecting hub. Best done in summer of early fall, though Winter obviously has its special magic. If possible, use secondary
PAVED highways in Nevada. Some of them are gorgeous. Avoid the ugly trucker route of Freeway 80 unless you are just trying to cross the state as fast as possible between Utah and Calif. My old custom was to drive the freeways at night, since I didn't want to know what I was missing! - then spend my days on
the slower roads. But don't get stuck somewhere. It can happen easily in the West in the Winter. Death Valley is hospitable from Nov to maybe March, though
it has upper altitudes too, with snow rather than heat becoming the main logistical problem. Don't underestimate its sheer size either. Takes time to explore.

[appletree]

Depending on what your priority is (Yos + snow), you may want to align your trip/destinations so you are within a day or two to pounce on the opportunity. The way I worked it out (knowing that snow storm was "clearing" already), I ended up in a motel at Oakhurst....till they cleared the roads in the park. Ha, camping was out of the question (too stinkin cold). You can't count on Tioga Rd (Rte 120) being open....due to height and it could be shut at any moment> killing your access from E. Sierra....post October. Currently the pass is shut down "temporarily" (???). Anyway, NPS in general keep the roads to and in Yos accessible...as they are interested in revenue stream (to the valley). In any case, it's a worthy goal. However, it's incredibly difficult to predict when (or if) the snow will fall...considering that Calif received v. little snow (or moisture) in the recent years. Additionally, the storm could be rolling from SF to Yos, but v. often it can fizzle out too....before it gets there. Yeah, as if you want to deal with more unknowns. :rolleyes:

You could explore Sequoia, Kings Canyon, DV, Joshua, etc. while keeping an eye on the weather in Yos. Anyway, keep it real and try to camp at lower elevations. Exactly month ago I camped at KC (6700ft) and woke up to 30.5F (28 deg earlier) and it's way colder by now. Ha, even my 25 degree sleeping bag couldn't keep me cozy enough (REI bag rating is faulty)....but that's a different subject.

Anyhoo, hope everything lines up as intended....and you can do some snow angels.:o

Les

Wow, Les, that is great information sir. Thanks so much. So perhaps I plan to spend the first 9 days or so across California (and the last half of trip, close enough to Yosemite to allow a visit should the snow/weather permit.

A few comments that may help advice from you and others:

After looking at photos of JT, DV, Sequoia, King's Canyon, etc. it is apparent to me I would much rather spend time in Sequoia and King's rather than desert life.
Although, if possible it would be nice to spend a day in each of the desert areas. Not sure how feasible this is? Are the arches and some of the other "must see" landscapes (devil's golf course, badwater, zabriskie, etc.) relatively easy to do? As in could one theoretically drive through JT or DV in a full day and stop, park, hike a little, etc. and see a decent amount. (Obviously this wouldn't do the park full justice)
See map below, but it seems like one cannot easily drive from DV to Sequoia or King's Canyon? Looks like I must go around the long way?
Let's say I spend 4-5 days across Sequoia and King's, how would I know if/when I should get up and go to Yosemite? Or the night before make sure I am headed that way? Based on the weather alone? Based on snowfall amount? How do I make such a decision.
While Yosemite is the "option" and a nice goal to have, are Sequoia and King's Canyon viable options? Considering mid-December, etc.?
My goal is not to have every detail planned out, but have a general idea and for the rest fly by the seat of my pants.
Sorry for silly questions, just not being a native to Cali, I want to make the most of my trip.


Ok, here is what I have to fill:

Dec 15 - Fly into San Diego, visit Salton Sea and head to JT
Dec 16 - Spend day (6AM - 3PM or so) at JT, drive toward DV
Dec 17 - Spend day and night at DV
Dec 18 - Leave mid-day for Sequoia and spend night there (or near)
Dec 19 - Sequoia (Yosemite, as an option) (need to get friend to an airport [Fresno or Bakersfield I guess] this day or on the 20th)
Dec 20 - Sequoia (Yosemite, as an option)
Dec 21 - King's Valley (Yosemite, as an option)
Dec 22 - King's Valley (Yosemite, as an option)
Dec 23 - Get into Sacramento mid morning. Spend rest of day shooting friends/portrait work, etc.
Dec 24 - Sacramento. Shooting friends/portrait work, fly out in the evening.


http://i.imgur.com/DwkkELWh.jpg

PS: Seems like the NPS website has lots of information (this in regards to winter time in Sequoia and King's Canyon) (https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/winteractivities.htm)...

[appletree]

But I still can't get a handle on trying to visit all these places in one trip. What ever happened to "quality time"?

Drew, thanks a ton for your input and information on the road closures (as well as what parts of various parks may/may not be accessible. In regards to your opinions, they are noted. I would only add that quality time of one person is different from others. What works for some, may not work for other's. To each his/her own. :)

[Drew Wiley]

Just remember that Kings Canyon is 95% official wilderness, completely roadless, with major sections even devoid of trails. Unless you're an expert backcountry skier, it's a summer-only area, one in which I've personally taken many trips. Perhaps my very favorite of all Natl Parks. Even the relevant viewpoints towards
the Park are closed in winter. Kings and Sequoia are jointly administered as SEKI. The main loop road in Sequoia might between the Ash Mtn and Grant Grove entrances might or might not remain open. The quickie road straight up to Grant Grove is nearly always open, though chains might be required. But most of Sequoia is itself back country. What is so wonderful about SEKI is how wonderfully quiet it is compared to Yosemite. Event the rangers are friendly, while in Yosemite they tend to be all stressed out. Of course, most of Yosemite itself is backcountry too. I recently spend two weeks there, without even encountering
anyone else for an entire week. There are a number of spectacular glacial valleys in the Sierra, but Yosemite Valley differs in being so accessible, relatively low altitude, and in being inhabited by humans for millennia. Due to the low altitude, those Ansel-esque postcardly snows take quite a bit of luck in terms of timing,
and when they do happen you can get trapped in the Valley for a few days - or at least claim to be trapped, so you have an excuse not to get back to work in
time!

[appletree]

Just remember that Kings Canyon is 95% official wilderness, completely roadless, with major sections even devoid of trails. Unless you're an expert backcountry skier, it's a summer-only area, one in which I've personally taken many trips. Perhaps my very favorite of all Natl Parks. Even the relevant viewpoints towards
the Park are closed in winter. Kings and Sequoia are jointly administered as SEKI. The main loop road in Sequoia might between the Ash Mtn and Grant Grove entrances might or might not remain open. The quickie road straight up to Grant Grove is nearly always open, though chains might be required. But most of Sequoia is itself back country. What is so wonderful about SEKI is how wonderfully quiet it is compared to Yosemite. Event the rangers are friendly, while in Yosemite they tend to be all stressed out. Of course, most of Yosemite itself is backcountry too. I recently spend two weeks there, without even encountering
anyone else for an entire week. There are a number of spectacular glacial valleys in the Sierra, but Yosemite Valley differs in being so accessible, relatively low altitude, and in being inhabited by humans for millennia. Due to the low altitude, those Ansel-esque postcardly snows take quite a bit of luck in terms of timing,
and when they do happen you can get trapped in the Valley for a few days - or at least claim to be trapped, so you have an excuse not to get back to work in
time!

Thanks Drew. Very helpful information. And no, I am not an avid backcountry skier. Although, I am very verse to backpacking in general. That said, I won't take any chances that are too risky. Last year when I spent over a week in Oregon, I tried going with a fellow photographer (local to Portland) to Mt. Hood and we had to eventually turn around. The road was just too bad, and we had chains.
Seems like beggars can't be choosers. I will have to play much of the latter half of my trip by ear and based solely on what is/isn't open and/or accessible.

[Drew Wiley]

Oh, a couple very important things I forgot. California's Central Valley gets tule fog in winter which can be deadly due to horrible road visibility. You have to time your driving so that you avoid it. It sets in mid-evening to mid-morning, and can be particularly bad in the lower river drainages. And those long truck routes going across the Mohave toward Bakerfield have their own risk of pileups due to sand storms, snow or ice, etc. So your projected times from Point A to Point B
could drastically change any number of places. Once in awhile there are major highway washout in the desert too, flashflooding. The key thing is to just be flexible. There will be plenty to see and do, regardless, if you are reasonably supplied. Plenty of gas and a good sleeping bag are a must. Rather than exiting DV from the south (if that road is even open yet) towards Ridgecrest, a far more scenic route would head west toward Lone Pine, and then turn south from there, unless you are too tempted to explore Hwy 395 to the north, alongside the Sierra crest. It can be hard to resist.

[appletree]

Oh, a couple very important things I forgot. California's Central Valley gets tule fog in winter which can be deadly due to horrible road visibility. You have to time your driving so that you avoid it. It sets in mid-evening to mid-morning, and can be particularly bad in the lower river drainages. And those long truck routes going across the Mohave toward Bakerfield have their own risk of pileups due to sand storms, snow or ice, etc. So your projected times from Point A to Point B
could drastically change any number of places. Once in awhile there are major highway washout in the desert too, flashflooding. The key thing is to just be flexible. There will be plenty to see and do, regardless, if you are reasonably supplied. Plenty of gas and a good sleeping bag are a must. Rather than exiting DV from the south (if that road is even open yet) towards Ridgecrest, a far more scenic route would head west toward Lone Pine, and then turn south from there, unless you are too tempted to explore Hwy 395 to the north, alongside the Sierra crest. It can be hard to resist.

Very helpful advice. Thanks. Yes, I plan to buy a gas tank for the rental car when we get into San Diego. I have good camping gear, wool socks, blankets, little stove, etc. We will do our best to be prepared.
Once again, I don't think I will venture super far out in areas a) I have never been, b) in winter time with poor conditions, and c) especially once I am traveling alone for the last few days.

[Drew Wiley]

Nearly every single Winter or Fall road trip I've taken like this (and there have been many of them) have involved getting stuck or delayed somewhere in route,
or some kind of unexpected long detour. But I was raised by parents who considered the best way to get from Point A to B as being the most convoluted winding
combination of backroads imaginable, so guess I inherited that proclivity myself, with a preference for the "scenic route". But the huge interstates can be at times worse if a big semi truck & trailer tips over, of if there are hundreds of marginally awake gamblers or skiers returning to LA after a wild weekend. Stuff happens. If snow is low, there is an alternate way of getting from Lone Pine to Bakerfield via Isabella Lake and the lower Kern River Canyon, which avoid the trucker traffic and is scenic, and generally not any slower.

[John Layton]

mid to late dec? Fly into Vegas (usually relatively cheap)...rent a car and explore Death Valley and Joshua Tree. At DV, camp at furnace creek, and at JT, camp at Jumbo Rocks.

[Leszek Vogt]

I've tried to answer all your points, but something went wrong and everything evaporated (full page).....that was earlier in the day. No idea why this happens here.

If hiking is important to you, you might want to rent set of snowshoes....the down side is, that you may have to return it to the same location. Much depends on snow conditions. When I hiked into Sequoia for 3 days (with couple of buddies) back in '78 (in Dec), the snow was coming down and in some places there was 6-8 ft cover - tough to do without snowshoes.

1) Desert and elevations are v. special and for completely different reasons, IMO. Many judge desert by the summer blight. :<)

2) Don't forget the early morning light when the sun barely crests over the horizon (DV), so you can get some spectacular visuals of the dunes....with some elongated shadows. Similar with J. Tree, tho I'd use the trees in the foreground (or light-paint them) and allow the stars do their rotation. Your best light will always be in the morning or at around sunset. Clouds can add to the landscape.

3) True. Unless you jump on Rte 178 or 155 those are the shortcuts. However, one or both might be shut down due to Winter conditions (a norm). Rte 155 is v. curvy and you'd have to slow down to 15-20MPH for quite a while....even if it was open. Yep, this road is not yer friend. It might be longer (via 58), but going through Tehachapi is faster, smoother and safer....tho visuals suffer.

4) If you don't want to bother the park info rangers, you can dial your own wifi and check the weather. At KC I was able to get a decent signal at a nearby lodge - using a laptop. I pretty much repeated this in Sequoia....Wasachia (sp ?) lodge was great for this too. But, sometimes you get someone at the desk (NPS) that understands your particular situation and they will poke and prod till they find the weather conditions in Yos Valley - it's a bit of a crap shoot. Not all locations allow you to get a phone signal.

5) Naturally, KC does not have the popularity of Yos....and that might be a good thing. It's possible that the park will shut down the 32mi stretch to the grove down below. In Dec it becomes a different park (Sequoia, as well), since many campgrounds/spaces will be shut down (several were inop. a month ago). Way back then, Lodgepole was open even with 2" of ice on the campsite benches....don't know how they approach these issues more recently. There is a camp at lower elev and likely not as chilly....roughly 13 miles from Three Rivers, and it's called Potwisha. I'd give them a jing (from a previous location) and find out ahead what what's closed, etc.

Overall, you may have to improvise....and that's what will make the trip more special....been doing plenty of that (no regrets).

Les

[appletree]

I've tried to answer all your points, but something went wrong and everything evaporated (full page).....that was earlier in the day. No idea why this happens here.
Man, that stinks. Thanks for not giving up and re-typing it all. When that happens to me, I usually just step away and type it later...

If hiking is important to you, you might want to rent set of snowshoes....the down side is, that you may have to return it to the same location. Much depends on snow conditions. When I hiked into Sequoia for 3 days (with couple of buddies) back in '78 (in Dec), the snow was coming down and in some places there was 6-8 ft cover - tough to do without snowshoes.
I do not plan to do a ton of hiking. That said, I don't want to be limited to the road only. In areas where I pitch the tent or sleep in the car or whatever it would be nice to be able to hike a few miles (3-5 or so) in order to get better vantage points or explore or whatnot. I will call REI, they may (I have no idea) let me rent in San Diego and return them to another store.

1) Desert and elevations are v. special and for completely different reasons, IMO. Many judge desert by the summer blight. :<)

2) Don't forget the early morning light when the sun barely crests over the horizon (DV), so you can get some spectacular visuals of the dunes....with some elongated shadows. Similar with J. Tree, tho I'd use the trees in the foreground (or light-paint them) and allow the stars do their rotation. Your best light will always be in the morning or at around sunset. Clouds can add to the landscape.
Awesome information!!! Thanks. This means I may plan my days to try and be in the car (when required) from 0900-1500 and make sure I am in positions to be at camp or areas to shoot during early morning light. I don't even know how to light paint, but I think I know what you mean. Put a tree in the foreground. Set up a shot for 20mins or however long, and use a flashlight for x amount of time to throw light on the tree(s) in the foreground.

3) True. Unless you jump on Rte 178 or 155 those are the shortcuts. However, one or both might be shut down due to Winter conditions (a norm). Rte 155 is v. curvy and you'd have to slow down to 15-20MPH for quite a while....even if it was open. Yep, this road is not yer friend. It might be longer (via 58), but going through Tehachapi is faster, smoother and safer....tho visuals suffer.
So I can go, 178, 155, or 58? Nvm, looked at the map. I see what you are saying. Note to self...buy an actual paper map for this trip.

4) If you don't want to bother the park info rangers, you can dial your own wifi and check the weather. At KC I was able to get a decent signal at a nearby lodge - using a laptop. I pretty much repeated this in Sequoia....Wasachia (sp ?) lodge was great for this too. But, sometimes you get someone at the desk (NPS) that understands your particular situation and they will poke and prod till they find the weather conditions in Yos Valley - it's a bit of a crap shoot. Not all locations allow you to get a phone signal.
Ok, thanks. This helps. And yes, I am sure someone at NPS will understand my situation and be willing to help. They live and work there daily, so they too will know better than anyone.

5) Naturally, KC does not have the popularity of Yos....and that might be a good thing. It's possible that the park will shut down the 32mi stretch to the grove down below. In Dec it becomes a different park (Sequoia, as well), since many campgrounds/spaces will be shut down (several were inop. a month ago). Way back then, Lodgepole was open even with 2" of ice on the campsite benches....don't know how they approach these issues more recently. There is a camp at lower elev and likely not as chilly....roughly 13 miles from Three Rivers, and it's called Potwisha. I'd give them a jing (from a previous location) and find out ahead what what's closed, etc.
Yes, that is good news. Perhaps I camp at lower elevation and hike/drive (when able) around the place for a day or two, before moving camp.

Overall, you may have to improvise....and that's what will make the trip more special....been doing plenty of that (no regrets).
Improvising is completely fine. And worst case I have extra days if flights get delayed, or I get stuck (assuming I am safe) somewhere. I don't have to be back by Christmas. No wife or kids, yet (Lord willing one day), and I think my parents will be out of town this year.

[Drew Wiley]

There are innumerable places to camp in the desert provided you've got water and are not using a freeway. As usual, don't sleep at any official Roadside Rest along a freeway due to safety reasons. As far as Grant Grove goes, there are almost no lower elevation campsites. It's mostly farmland and private property, then the road zips right up the hill. The good news is that the Lodgepole area is functional year-round, and the breakfasts at the Park coffee shop aren't bad. My family has held winter reunions there. But you might need reservations. You won't get past it to where you can view Kings Canyon - the road is no doubt already closed till next summer - except if the Hume Lake road is plowed, which gives you a few sideways views of the immense canyon system. But if it does look like snow there, and you want to visit, by all means rent a pair of snowshoes before heading up. Stomping around the big trees in snow with a view camera is a highly memorable experience. There are also groomed cross-country ski trails, but they aren't aimed toward the trees. Uncrowded, magical in winter.

[appletree]

Awesome. Thanks Drew!

[tgtaylor]

If I had limited time, say 10 - 12 days, and didn't want to spend 6+ hours each day behind the wheel, I'd fly into Buenos Aires and from there take a flight to El Calafate which is a base from which climbers, adventures, and tourists explore Los Glaciares National Park which incudes Mt. Fitz Roy among several large glaciers. Torres del Paine is just a short bus ride across the border and I would split the time in-country between both parks - hiking and doing photography and not driving. Polartec is a must. Chile rescinded the reciprocity fee charged to US citizens so instead of returning via Buenos Aires in Puerto Natales I'd catch the bus to Punta Arenas and fly back from Santiago. If you can secure a coast-side window seat (facing east or on the right side of the aircraft as you are facing the cockpit), you'll have an unobstructed and dramatic view of the snow-covered chain of volcanoes that make up Chile.

That's what I would do but I've already done it!

Thomas

[appletree]

If I had limited time, say 10 - 12 days, and didn't want to spend 6+ hours each day behind the wheel, I'd fly into Buenos Aires and from there take a flight to El Calafate which is a base from which climbers, adventures, and tourists explore Los Glaciares National Park which incudes Mt. Fitz Roy among several large glaciers. Torres del Paine is just a short bus ride across the border and I would split the time in-country between both parks - hiking and doing photography and not driving. Polartec is a must. Chile rescinded the reciprocity fee charged to US citizens so instead of returning via Buenos Aires in Puerto Natales I'd catch the bus to Punta Arenas and fly back from Santiago. If you can secure a coast-side window seat (facing east or on the right side of the aircraft as you are facing the cockpit), you'll have an unobstructed and dramatic view of the snow-covered chain of volcanoes that make up Chile.

That's what I would do but I've already done it!

Thomas

Bravo. Saving this post for whenever I plan a trip to Chile and southern Argentina!!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[appletree]

Just called REI in San Diego. They do not allow someone to rent items there and return to a different REI location (in this case REI @ Sacramento).
But the guy spent 10mins on the phone with me. Suggested REI in Fresno or one of the MANY outdoor shops in various towns and locations all along the Sierras.

He has a two wheel drive car and with chains he said he often safely can get upwards of Mammoth Lakes (if I remember that correctly). He is confident that I will be able to get to a LOT of locations. Obviously, it will be very weather dependent and he said more than likely northern Yosemite won't be feasible, but I will just have to see which roads are kept in order around SEKI and Yosemite. He mentioned that any place that has high winter activity with skiing and such will be accessible because they want tourists coming in. He, like many of you, just suggested I keep my eyes on the weather and in contact with NPS to know which roads are open/closed/etc. Also, he said majority of the major park areas should be no problem getting to. I will be able to get a lot of places pretty safely, just will end up depending on weather and various routes, etc.

[HMG]

I have found it's often cheaper to fly in/out of Las Vegas.

Last time, I got into my rental car and headed straight to Death Valley. No doubt a rental car limits your ability to get to some locations, but not too bad. Camped while there. As I recall, I spent my last night near Tecopa enjoying the hot springs. But you can often find hotel rooms cheap - if you don't gamble.

I keep a propane stove specifically for air travel when I plan to camp (but not backpack) as it's so easy to find a propane cylinder for fuel. And I use a duffel, rather than a backpack. But other than that it's the same equipment I use for backpacking so I don't hit limit on checked bag.

[Leszek Vogt]

As you indicated and I'll echo - it's weather dependent. One more thing, if you are going near a Les Schwab (tire place) and I just spotted 3 locations near Bakersfield (there are more in So Cal), they have a cool program. You can buy tire chains....and if you don't use them, you can return them and obtain a full refund....also noticed some dealers near Stockton. I think, that would be a good insurance to have....for the mountains. Wish I was going....

Les

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah, Bakerfield. All roads lead there. Just bring your own bottled oxygen. If Merle Haggard thought Bakersfield, the "armpit of the West", was the promised land,
I'd hate to see the dustbowl he came from.

[angusparker]

Yeah, Bakerfield. All roads lead there. Just bring your own bottled oxygen. If Merle Haggard thought Bakersfield, the "armpit of the West", was the promised land,
I'd hate to see the dustbowl he came from.

+1. I drove through this year to go to the mountains. 110 degrees - a hot sweaty armpit might be a better description in the summer but us LF photogs can find beauty in just about everything right!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[appletree]

As always, lots of good advice. Especially about the snow chains and stuff.

I am trying to remember what I did in Portland last year about the rental car. I think they offered snow chains. But might be really expensive.
When I went driving with a local he had some traction cables that we put on before attempting to make it to Mt. Hood (we had to turn around).

In regards to Bakersfield, I am vaguely familiar, just because I am in oil & gas, and have a few friends that have previously or currently work there.

[Drew Wiley]

Bakersfield is the only place I'm aware of where someone started their car and blew up the surrounding atmosphere, fatally. The smog, as seen from the mtns,
is yellow-greenish rather than brownish. But there is some stunning scenery in Kern County, which includes not only Sequoia NP to the east, but the Carizzo Plain
to the west, one of the least inhabited parts of the Coast Range and prized for its Spring wildflowers. But most of the roads there get seriously mucky in winter.
The horrible pollution of Bakerfield is due to not only the tens of thousands of oil wells and related refining, along with all the agricultural pesticides and dust,
but due to its "armpit" geography, surrounded on three sides by mountains. So yeah, even though Bakerfield itself is probably less habitable than the surface of
the planet Venus, you don't have to go far to find remarkable open space of astounding variety. Of course, driving over the Grapevine from Bakerfield to LA is
just like transferred to one compartment of hell to another; but the intervening Tehachapi Range has its own beauty if you take the time to leave the freeway.
The hill country of the Kaweah River, to the north of the Kern, is wonderful, but not everyone will appreciate the endlessly winding narrow roads. The twistier the
road, the better I like it.

[appletree]

So.......it is me again.
Thanks for all the advice so far.

This is my trip (and I am [weather depending] fairly set on it):
Dec 15 - Fly into San Diego, visit Salton Sea and head to JT
Dec 16 - Spend day (6AM - 3PM or so) at JT, drive toward DV
Dec 17 - Spend day and night at DV
Dec 18 - Leave mid-day for Sequoia and spend night there (or near)
Dec 19 - Sequoia (Yosemite, as an option)
Dec 20 - Sequoia (Yosemite, as an option)
Dec 21 - King's Valley (Yosemite, as an option)
Dec 22 - King's Valley (Yosemite, as an option)
Dec 23 - Get into Sacramento mid morning. Spend rest of day shooting friends/portrait work, etc.
Dec 24 - Sacramento. Shooting friends/portrait work, fly out in the evening.

Someone help me out with what all should I be bringing. I have a really nice and warm sleeping bag (Enlightened Equipment) and lots of camping gear.
I am an Eagle Scout and know how to camp. But this trip will be sort of hybrid between driving, camping, hiking, photographing.

My Current Plan (but advice appreciated):

Sleep in the back of the SUV or pitch my tent some nights
Get to an area and find a campground or whatnot (can I get a parks pass or anything?)
Get "camp" ready, then go out and hike a bit/photographing along the way (keeping valuables on me or hidden in the car).
Shower occasionally at the campgrounds
Potentially build a fire or whatnot and spend the night
Get up in the morning, pack up to be ready to head out, then spend rest of time until leaving hiking/photographing
Watch the weather and parks website (or call them) for updates on roads and Yosemite access
Drive to next location, stopping along the way to snap shots here and there


Obviously I know warm clothes, layers, lots of wool, boots, camera(s), film, changing bag, light meter, loupe, etc. etc.

Things I am considering packing:

Hatchet
MSR stove or Jetboil
Aeropress and coffee
Knife
Rope (paracord)
Inflatable lantern (it is amazing)
Flashlight
Headlamp
Sleeping bag
Sleeping pad
Tent
Shampoo/Soap
Solar power phone charger
Backup battery for phone
Towel(s)
Crampons
Snowshoes (this will be tricky.....REI won't let me rent and return at a different store. Guy on the phone suggested using one of the all-too-common shops along the way and in the Sierras to rent them. But I will have the same problem...either loop back around to return or ship them back)
Since I will be on the road a lot I will get food and water every few days/as needed. Thus, no need (that I see) to pack water filter, etc.

[HMG]

Some random comments:


I find a small saw (like a pruning saw) more useful than a hatchet.
If you're renting a suv, your contract may preclude driving on unpaid roads (even if a suv). Check the fine print then decide what you want to do.
I don't know about your specific locations, but there are unimproved areas (BLM) in the west where legal to camp. You might want to bring a small trowel for waste.
To bring a stove with you on flight, you'll need one with separate fuel (like the jetboil). But I like ones that use propane as easier to find than butane cartridge, even though much less compact.
Have you actually used your solar phone charger? When I looked into them, they took a long time. Will that work with your schedule?
Might be cheaper to buy used snowshoes (ebay?) than to rent for 9 days and ship back (plus you'll be the only person in Cyprus, TX prepared for a 10" snowfall). Not sure if enough time though. With a heavy pack, you probably also want poles.

[appletree]

Those are perfect comments. Thanks so much.

Yes, I have both an MSR whisperlite (that is pretty old) and Jetboil. So I was unsure which I wanted to bring. MSR is nice since you can cook a bit more normal. And buy fuel after landing. I also had been looking at one of these and will be at REI this weekend (MSR PocketRocket (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000A8C5QE?ref=emc_b_5_t))
I have a pruning saw. I will pack it, thanks for the reminder. Perhaps I don't even pack my hatchet.
Good point about the SUV...I will check the fine print. I will be smart too as the last thing I want is any dicey situations with a rental vehicle (or any vehicle for that matter).
I tried using the solar charger on a very cloudy and rainy day, but to no avail. I don't suspect I will need my phone much so I figured if I kept it in the window(s) all day it might keep it a little juiced. (I am bringing this (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Z9QVE4Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) too...and worse case I can use a public area. I could always pack my inverter.)
Yeah, I thought about buying snowshoes, but didn't really want to have to travel with such things. I am trying to get by with my Gregory pack and a large northface (or Filson) duffle. Tent will be strapped to outside of one of these. When actually needing the snowshoes though, I suspect I will only have a pack full of cameras. Clothes and camping gear will be left in car.

[Drew Wiley]

There are plenty of areas in the West where the ability to recharge a phone is meaningless. You just won't get reception. Otherwise, use a cigarette lighter adapter
in your auto.

[appletree]

Honestly...my goal is to hopefully have as little reception as possible (unless needed for emergency).
A vacation is reallllllly nice when the cell phone isn't ringing all day.

[HMG]

The problem with the whisperlite is that you can't bring back your fuel bottle if there's any trace of fumes in it, and maybe even if there isn't. In fact, even the stove part itself could be an issue. When flying and driving, I've used one like this (https://www.amazon.com/Century-Grasshopper-Single-Burner-Propane-Stove/dp/B003CKQL44). But for backpacking I use a less expensive version of the PocketRocket. Since I just do simple foods, and I'm too cheap to buy a fancy titanium pot, I use an IMUSA aluminum cup (https://www.amazon.com/IMUSA-USA-R200-10-Aluminum-Silver/dp/B009SBB7HM/ref=pd_sim_79_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B009SBB7HM&pd_rd_r=MQCF4E3BCHJ7WR7HA16Z&pd_rd_w=Xjgas&pd_rd_wg=GhUFs&psc=1&refRID=MQCF4E3BCHJ7WR7HA16Z) as a cookpot (lots of grocery stores carry these). In your case, I would take paper plates and cups to avoid washing dishes.

[appletree]

Awesome advice. Thank you again.

[Drew Wiley]

For road travel I prefer a conventional Coleman tailgate stove. You can buy the fuel in almost any gas station, hardware store, sporting goods, or grocery stop in the rural West. Probably just pick up a Coleman stove itself for fifty bucks any number of places. Backpacking stoves are relatively slow heating or cooking by comparison, but obviously far more portable. I can't imagine an airliner allowing something like that on board.

[tonyowen]

Chains for car, snow shovel, de-icer, bug spray (even in winter the black flies are out), sun screen for high altitudes, gaiters and/or snow boots. ski goggles or similar in case you get caught in a blizzard/whiteout, similarly good gloves [Yes I've been there and done that]

Safety/survival insurance by telling people where you're going that day and when you expect to be back

By the way, Snowshoes make good wall decoration [we have two pairs on various walls of our house] Also what kind of snow shoes are you contemplating? The real thing that are about 40 inches long by 13 inches wide OR the small plastic items that are the size of "your boot"?

have fun
regards
Tony

[appletree]

Tony, great points.

I have been contemplating snow chains for the car. I know they make some cable versions that are somewhat portable. I may be better off just picking these up when in San Diego the first day rather than flying with.
Thanks for the bug spray tip. I thought about it, then was like nah...it's winter, there aren't any stinking bugs out.

Of course. Family and the lady in my life will both know my schedule and locations.

Snowshoes. I have no idea. I live in Texas. But I suspected I would need fairly large "traditional" ones. Nothing fancy shmancy and new age. Hence, my reluctance to have to fly or ship these things.
Crampons I am bringing are merely for icy conditions. Not hiking 2 miles in the snow to get that "perfect" shot.

I have some insanely heavy snow boot things that clip and wrap around the outside of your boot. But I was not planning on bringing since they would need their own bag I feel like!

[Drew Wiley]

Classic beavertail snowshoes don't work well except on flat terrain, and are much more tiring to walk in unless you're accustomed because you have to walk
bow-legged in them. Newer-style shoes are long ovals with built-in instep crampons, and very convenient for working around brush or rocks or climbing slopes.
Much more convenient than skis when needing to photograph things up close, or need to stomp the snow down firm for a tripod platform. I often kept a pair in
the truck when traveling in winter. It was common to get stuck somewhere two or three days during a blizzard before the plows got through. So instead of freezing
to death, I was well stocked in food and gear, and I'd just strap on my snowshoes and grab my 8x10 and have some fun.

[Peter Collins]

If you have 10 days--just 10 days--that's not much--stay in the U.S.of A. Or maybe Canada. You want to be set up waiting for the perfect light of dawn, thinking about the shutter. Not traveling longer, being tired from traveling, concerned about connections, and finally, finding that do not have the days that Torres del Paine requires of us. $0.02.

[appletree]

Thanks Peter. Yes, staying in the US of A. But even then doing a bit of sightseeing in that short time.
Torres del Paine will come later and with hopefully a bit more time. And with a lady-friend more than likely tagging along with me.


Classic beavertail snowshoes don't work well except on flat terrain, and are much more tiring to walk in unless you're accustomed because you have to walk
bow-legged in them. Newer-style shoes are long ovals with built-in instep crampons, and very convenient for working around brush or rocks or climbing slopes.
Much more convenient than skis when needing to photograph things up close, or need to stomp the snow down firm for a tripod platform. I often kept a pair in
the truck when traveling in winter. It was common to get stuck somewhere two or three days during a blizzard before the plows got through. So instead of freezing
to death, I was well stocked in food and gear, and I'd just strap on my snowshoes and grab my 8x10 and have some fun.

Thanks for the info Drew. Any clever ideas on renting a pair or utilizing a pair during the 4-5 actual days I could need them?
Perhaps I just gulp it down, buy a pair and leave with my friends in Sacramento......

[Leszek Vogt]

Johnathon, it looks promising....that you may get some snow in Yos....current web pic https://www.yosemiteconservancy.org/webcams/half-dome

But, as you are aware, weather is a weather - no guarantees. True, REI offers more current style snowshoes and I noticed that they cost 3-4-5X what I paid for them. If possible, try to get a pair from CL on a local level at a lower price (goodwill ?). The traditional type or the "antique" wooden looking as if from the arctic....they are wonderful art pieces on the wall, but in reality I'd prefer more modern snowshoes (lighter). When I went into Sequoia in the Winter for a 3-day excursion....we had 5-8' of snow (packed)...so it may have been 1/2 of that and I never used any sticks, tho a nice fallen branch could be used for balancing. While in AK, I used such a branch, which I trimmed some (to my height) and utilized it as a monopod, as well.

If you intend to use MSR stove, you shouldn't have difficulties finding propane for it on this end of the country. Soo, if not Big 5 then REI or other sport outlet....you could check in advance. Mine uses conventional propane, which I could even obtain it at the natl pk groc store. Don't believe they'll let you take it on the aircraft....whatever the form of propane. If the temps are not too crazy cold, it will be fun to cook up stuff....the plan B would be to haul to the local eatery.

While in the valley (San Joaquin), for the most part, you will have a phone connection. In the mountains, however, things will be somewhat spotty, tho in some areas like a lodge, visitor center, etc you may get a signal. Ask around or step into visitor center and find out what are the possibilities. Enjoy the wilderness and photo taking....it all looks good.
Make the best of it and spend more time in places that you really like....it reduces the list of regrets :>)

Les

[jp]

Tony, great points.

I have been contemplating snow chains for the car. I know they make some cable versions that are somewhat portable. I may be better off just picking these up when in San Diego the first day rather than flying with.
Thanks for the bug spray tip. I thought about it, then was like nah...it's winter, there aren't any stinking bugs out.

Of course. Family and the lady in my life will both know my schedule and locations.

Snowshoes. I have no idea. I live in Texas. But I suspected I would need fairly large "traditional" ones. Nothing fancy shmancy and new age. Hence, my reluctance to have to fly or ship these things.
Crampons I am bringing are merely for icy conditions. Not hiking 2 miles in the snow to get that "perfect" shot.


The new aluminum and plastic non-traditional snowshoes work very nicely. I used to have the option of traditional snowshoes or XC skis and rarely picked the traditional snowshoes as they are big and difficult to manuever even compared to skis.

The new ones are super light, inexpensive, easier to put on/off, have traction on ice, etc... They look funny and work better than expected. Send them home and ebay them when you are done.

[appletree]

Johnathon, it looks promising....that you may get some snow in Yos....current web pic https://www.yosemiteconservancy.org/webcams/half-dome

But, as you are aware, weather is a weather - no guarantees. True, REI offers more current style snowshoes and I noticed that they cost 3-4-5X what I paid for them. If possible, try to get a pair from CL on a local level at a lower price (goodwill ?). The traditional type or the "antique" wooden looking as if from the arctic....they are wonderful art pieces on the wall, but in reality I'd prefer more modern snowshoes (lighter). When I went into Sequoia in the Winter for a 3-day excursion....we had 5-8' of snow (packed)...so it may have been 1/2 of that and I never used any sticks, tho a nice fallen branch could be used for balancing. While in AK, I used such a branch, which I trimmed some (to my height) and utilized it as a monopod, as well.

If you intend to use MSR stove, you shouldn't have difficulties finding propane for it on this end of the country. Soo, if not Big 5 then REI or other sport outlet....you could check in advance. Mine uses conventional propane, which I could even obtain it at the natl pk groc store. Don't believe they'll let you take it on the aircraft....whatever the form of propane. If the temps are not too crazy cold, it will be fun to cook up stuff....the plan B would be to haul to the local eatery.

While in the valley (San Joaquin), for the most part, you will have a phone connection. In the mountains, however, things will be somewhat spotty, tho in some areas like a lodge, visitor center, etc you may get a signal. Ask around or step into visitor center and find out what are the possibilities. Enjoy the wilderness and photo taking....it all looks good.
Make the best of it and spend more time in places that you really like....it reduces the list of regrets :>)

Les

Les, thanks for your positivity and encouragement. As well as advice. Much appreciated.

In regards to many of the comments on the snow shoes. I merely said that, because a) I had no idea and b) I thought I was being told the "real" ones to use are the old large ones...not some fancy nike (my word) ones.
Finding a pair on craigslist to buy when I arrive into town is not a bad idea. I will start looking now.

[tgtaylor]

From your itinerary I doubt that you Will need snowshoes: Any hiking that you end-up doing will probably be just a couple of miles each way and on main trails. So unless its snowing when you head out a trail through the snow will already be there from other hikers who went before. Do carry and use a compass and know where you started from and the azmuith back in case the unexpected should arise.

If you have the MSR Whisper light international, then it can burn regular gasoline. That's the stove that I use and although I prefer white gas for stateside backpack trips I burn regular automobile gasoline when on extended bicycle trips. Just be certain that there is no fuel oder when going thru airport security.

Have a great trip!

Thomas

[Drew Wiley]

Snowshoes are rather bulky, and for short distances just some fun casual snow boots like Sorels might do, though they would per worthless for any serious hiking,
so not a substitute for real hiking boots. I wouldn't even think about glorified tennis-shoe "hiking shoes" except in lower southernmost deserts of Arizona or Calif. Most Western desert is fairly high and can get very cold, esp at night. Always ask around locally before taking any random shortcut roads. Failing to do so has led
to numerous instances of doom, as has naive reliance upon auto navigation devices. But if you're prepared and patient, winter travel can be a treat!

[Leszek Vogt]

Just for the heck of it I dialed several towns in So Calif and there are slew of snowshoes to be had...from Camarillo to Turlock to Pasadena and some even in the S. Diego area. When you get on CL (say Los Angeles), you can write in snowshoes at search box and then just flip city that appeals to you the best....or several cities. For the most part the used ones go between 30 and 65 bucks. Personally (since I'm taller) I like the wider models....making sure I don't sink. It appears that you shouldn't have an issue getting a pair.

As Drew indicated, for the most part you may not even need those (???), but if there are any snow dumps or there is a large snow base already (it's mountains afterall)....it's good to have them and you can step away from the routine (paved) track.

Enjoy snow crunchin'.

Les

[HMG]

Also, here in MN in the winter, I wrap the top section of my aluminum tripod legs in the foam Home Depot and others sell for insulating pipes. Not sure if it will be necessary for the temps you'll encounter. Another thing I like for winter photography is a pair of mechanics gloves. Not super warm but they allow me to manipulate the camera. I use heavy gloves (actually surplus shooting mittens) over them.

[appletree]

Thank you all for your advice. I will be using an FLM carbon fiber tripod. Haven't considered if I need to do anything special in the snow or wintry conditions.
Yes, I have some thin gloves I will wear underneath some heavy duty ski gloves. That way I can still function a camera when the occasion arises.

I may just pick up a pair anyway, just so I have them in the event I want them.

But YES, most are right in my thinking. I don't suspect I will ever be more than 3-5 miles from camp/my car. That said I saw my father last night and he is insisting on me taking my 15ish year old GPS for trails and hiking. You can mark your spot and it will send you back to it. I don't even remember how to function that brick. I plan on bringing a compass for sure, a whistle, some emergency fire stuff, etc. JUST IN CASE something turns south on me. I was considering a few topo maps, but most are specific to each park/region....so I wasn't sure if I really wanted to pack around 3-4 maps. Maybe I should still grab one or two on amazon. Just to have.

I am flying SW, so I can check a bag or two. Am hoping I can get away with two bags (backpack and duffel), but may go with three just b/c. Backpack (which will go on plane with me) will have cameras and film. North Face duffel will have camping stuff in it. And a Filson pullman will have clothes in it. That way I am not constantly taking stuff in/out of my backpack when I want to go hike.

Thanks for all the advice.

[appletree]

From Amazon (regarding a Tom Harrison waterproof map for SEKI):


The map is fine. It's waterproof and includes the majority of the popular (and not so popular) hiking trails of SEKI.

But this map isn't particularly useful once you're on the trail. Here's why:

1. Despite how well-marked the High Sierra Trail is on this map, almost none of the backcountry campsites are plotted. I only have experience with the HST, but I imagine this is true of other trails as well. It would be incredibly helpful for both planning and hiking if the campsites were on the map along with the distances between them.

2. Again, despite how well-marked the HST is on the map, the distance markers aren't particularly "useful." It's difficult, using the map alone, to determine distances between campsites and other relevant spots along the trail. To be fair, major distances, like those between trail intersections, are plotted and somewhat useful, but the scale isn't fine enough to determine other distances.

3. The distances which are plotted differ (sometimes not inconsequentially) from the National Park Service trail markers. And those, in turn, differ from what my GPS measures.

While the map is useful, there are other free resources which are equally or more useful for planning a backcountry trip than this particular Tom Harrison map. Google is your friend.

[Drew Wiley]

The High Sierra trail is basically a popular backpacker freeway, but now inaccessible except to highly experienced backcountry skiers. Nobody in their right mind
would pass under those steep cliffs this time of year. Too much avalanche risk. At the lower end one can still have safe fun just tromping around amidst the giant Sequoias with a camera; but snowshoes help. You won't get far in fresh snow. Grant Grove facilities like the coffee shop are open year-round, and the highway is
typically open to that point only. If you do come back for an extended summer hike, waterproof National Geographic maps are nice; but caltopo.com is the best source to download topo maps for anywhere in the country. Try to team up with someone experienced if you head into high altitude, especially off trail. Even
mid-summer can bring blizzards of freezing rain anytime. These are real mountains, with real weather. Reservation backcountry campsites exist in only a few
places in the Parks, including Bearpaw on the High Sierra trail. Otherwise what they routinely want is a Wilderness Permit with an outline or your itinerary, in
case someone has to search for you. There are also numerous guidebooks in print regarding Sierra trails. Only the western half of the High Sierra trail, sections
of the Muir Trail, the Mt Whitney trail, and trails leading out of Yosemite Valley or Tuolumne Meadows are crowded, and even those can be quiet after August.
I've taken hundreds of backpack trips in the high Sierra, including a lot of off-trail travel, and there are still significant areas I haven't even seen yet.

[brucep]

Don't forget that most rental companies explicitly ban the use of chains on their vehicles, which would invalidate your insurance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[HMG]

Some/many cell phones have gps receivers that operate independently of cell reception. But your 15yo GPS unit might have more functionality.

I like maps. Somehow knowing my gps coordinates isn't the same as seeing where I am on a map. You can download and print maps from USGS. And a compass only tells you which direction you're going. A map tells you which direction you need to go.

[Drew Wiley]

You don't have to get far into the woods during a white-out to get lost and in real trouble. Happens to several people every winter, with one hypothermia victim already last month at a surprisingly low elevation. By contrast, up among the peaks, rescue crews do not even use GPS, but are expected to know the terrain
from sheer familiarity, just like the helicopter pilots. They do have big radios; but even those don't work everywhere; and choppers can't land just anywhere or
fly in just any conditions. I was helping on a search one day when two different hikers than the one I successfully found froze to death on a midsummer day hike. Took off in the morning under warm bright sun in hiking shoes, shorts, and T-s, and by afternoon found themselves in a blizzard with those flimsy boots frozen through. Oddly, when people are very close to death they seem to feel euphoric and intensely warm; so both these guys shed all their clothing and were found naked and dead in the snow.

[tonyowen]

158527 158528 158529


Classic beavertail snowshoes don't work well except on flat terrain, and are much more tiring to walk in unless you're accustomed because you have to walk bow-legged in them.
It takes some practice, but you can walk and run in snowshoes without moving your legs in ‘flat semicircles’ but rather lifting you feet higher than normal.. Also they are not limited to flat terrain, but are equally good in mountains, wilderness areas, deep forests, and powder snow (much better than the common narrow cross country skis) as they have a much larger footprint, and do not have a long projection in front of your feet. – so you can get very close to a subject if necessary.

QUOTE=Drew Wiley;1366024] If you're prepared and patient, winter travel can be a treat![/QUOTE]
Absolutely right, it is also interesting to visit the same area in both summer and winter as they can be completely different; especially as the temperature variation can be from 40 below to the high 80s.


You don't have to get far into the woods during a white-out to get lost and in real trouble. Happens to several people every winter, who often are found dead in the snow.
For some unknown reason, commonsense is left behind when some people take to the mountains (or go out to sea) without adequate preparation. Snowdonia is much less remote and does not have the elevation of the “Rockies or High Sierras”; but all too often people go along trails in high heel shoes, wearing T-shirt s and then get caught out when the weather gets bad or they get tired!! So the mountain rescue people and/or helicopter crews put their own lives in danger to save nincompoops!!

Sorry if I’m harping on about snowshoes and the need to be prepared; but things can go horribly wrong in a very short time. For instance, one May-time we were caught our in a blizzard in Durango, another time when skiing in Utah a whiteout suddenly descended and we had to rely on distorted sounds (from below) and very very careful movements to get down from the moiuntains.
Attached are three images that may or may not be of interest.

A final note to the OP – do it otherwise you will always regret not taking up the opportunity.
Regards
Tony

[tgtaylor]

A final note to the OP – do it otherwise you will always regret not taking up the opportunity.

That's how I ended up going to Torres del Paine - right on the spur of the moment: I had been saving my vacation and sick leave for a European bicycle tour starting in Zurich and ending in Istanbul. Then the company I worked for announced they would no longer roll-over the sick leave so I had to take it before the end of the year or lose it. I quickly searched travel options and choose Torres del Paine for which the timing was right - our winter is their summer - and spent 3 days touring the fjords and 5 days backpacking the "W" inside the park. While trying to line-up an early morning cab ride out to a lighthouse I wanted to photograph, someone ate the lamb stew I was to have for supper. So with the Pentax K1000 I walked a few blocks to a restaurant and would-up meeting and shaking hands with the President of Chile along with a picture of him emerging from the hotel with his Chief of Staff and wife. If the company didn't reverse its policy on sick leave, I would probably have never visited the glaciers of South America, Torres del Paine, or met the president of a foreign country.

When the opportunity arises, TAKE IT!

Thomas

[jloen]

If you really want to concentrate on photography, I would think about the Four Corners area.
Monument Valley, Arches, Shiprock, Canyonlands, Mesa Verde, Grand Canyon, Goose Necks, Bandelier for starters.

[Drew Wiley]

A warning about the Four Corners area in the winter. It can be downright hot in the day, but with unbelievable temp swings into night, especially in the canyons,
clear down to around zero F. You need a real-deal winter quality sleeping bag if you're backpacking. I spent one such night down in Kolob Canyons using my
pack as a pillow because a particular ringtail was very determined to get into it. He'd be standing on my stomach, and I'd turn on my flashlight, and there would
be that huge pair of eyes just inches from mine. They're incredibly cute; but I could have used a better sleep.

[appletree]

Thanks again for all the advice.

Didn't know about chains on the rental car. I will read the fine print. I ended up not getting a pair anyway, because I have no idea what size/model of SUV they will give me.
Also, been looking at snowshoes on Craigslist.

And Drew, thanks for the very light-hearted reminders about all the dangers in the woods.
To be fair though, I am pretty damn prepared and have my head on my shoulders.

I know how to navigate a map (with the use of a compass).
I have warm clothing, & extra clothing.
Extra food.
Extra water.
Ways to make a fire.
First aid kit.
Etc. etc.

That said, even all the sense in the world can sneak up on anyone. The world is a dangerous place. I could freeze to death in the Sierras, or get hit by a car going 80 miles an hour in Houston traffic.

I will be smart, especially if no chains. Stick to roads that are being plowed. And just explore to the best I can within safe and wise frames of mind.
Plus, many will know my location within reason, and my daily itinerary.

[HMG]

Re: snowshoes

Perhaps these would be an option for emergency use. I have seen them in another store and certainly appear sturdy enough.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/us-military-surplus-magnesium-snowshoes-with-bindings-new?p=e651m&i=173718&ecid=Email-e651m&utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=e651m&om_u=NFB8A4&om_i=_BYUDl7B9WOCymr&em_id=hmgolds%40gmail.com

[tonyowen]

Re: snowshoes Perhaps these would be an option for emergency use. I have seen them in another store and certainly appear sturdy enough.]

From the picture they seem okay, designed by Canadians - most likely Quebecois who have a long history of needing and using these devices. However, I'm not too sure about the fire making aspect - seems a bit gimmicky if not downright dangerous!

regards
Tony

[Drew Wiley]

Ironically, fires are far easier to start during really cold powder snow conditions than warmer, because the wood itself stays relatively dry if the ice crystals aren't
melting. Otherwise, just carry a Samsung smart phone for emergencies. They catch fire easily!

[appletree]

Hahaha at Drew.
And I found a pair. Guy has some made by Crescent Moon and will cut me a deal since I am paying cash. Bonus, he is like 10mins from the airport too.

Thanks again all. Packing and loading film holders tonight (vacuuming them first).

[HMG]

From the picture they seem okay, designed by Canadians - most likely Quebecois who have a long history of needing and using these devices. However, I'm not too sure about the fire making aspect - seems a bit gimmicky if not downright dangerous!

regards
Tony

I agree. But, just in case, you might want to keep them a bit away from the fire? :)

[jloen]

I don't understand why Drew needs to tell you that it will be cold out West, in mid-late December.
If you're not ready for below freezing weather, please don't come.

But if this discussion is about where to do some decent photography...

[Drew Wiley]

I never second guess anyone. I'd rather that they be offended by me repeating this kind of advice than risk an accident. I go through the same mantra with every friend or neighbor who aspires to get seriously outdoors or even road-travel in Winter. In fact, I even refuse to allow people to hike with me into the mountains without real boots and adequate physical conditioning. All it takes is once. I just read an account of one part-time summer backcountry ranger who retrieved over twenty bodies in a decade of such summers. Then he himself went missing. A couple months later someone found his decayed foot inside a boot way downstream from a crossing he had made thousands of times before alone. Nobody know the real story to this day, or what happened to the rest of him. For years I always carried a spare coat with me for even dayhikes as Fall approached. If I didn't have that spare to hand out, either several people would have been dead by now who were underquipped for sudden weather changes, or I myself would have been in serious risk trying to hike out without sufficient outerwear myself. Young fit types can be the worst. I've seen em jogging the trails ten miles back without even a waist pack with a raincoat or sweater in it. A single twist of the ankle in those ridiculous jogging shoes and they can't run any longer to keep up body temperature, and would have gone hypothermic when the weather suddenly and dramatically changed with the impending afternoon thunderstorm. People also freeze to death every winter in their cars when they
don't plan for potentially getting stuck. Even a few blankets would have kept them alive. So on the one hand, I apologize if I sound unnecessarily redundant;
on the other hand, I don't apologize.

[tonyowen]

So on the one hand, I apologize if I sound unnecessarily redundant; on the other hand, I don't apologize.

+ an infinite number of times

Absolutely right, you can die quite easily by not being prepared. Winter and summer are the extreme times, but you can get caught out any time, anywhere.
REMEMBER YOUR/THEBOY SCOUTS MOTTO BE PREPARED DO NOT DIE BECAUSE YOU ARE EMBARRASSED BY PREPARING YOURSELF OUT PROPERLY - WHEN OTHERS GO UNPREPARED

Like Drew I see a lot of accidents waiting to happen in both the mountains and on the sea (my house is on the coast alongside the beach and within 20 miles of Snowdonia.). We see the rescue helicopters, the coast guard, the RNLI all of whom risk their own lives to save others.

Life is short enough - why curtail it by being unprepared?

regards
Tony

[David Lobato]

I'm with Drew W. At least a few times I saved climbing partners and hiking strangers in serious trouble with hypothermia. And most of them knew how to be prepared but were not. And I have saved my own hide in sudden white out conditions at 14,000 feet. And I knew personally a few that did not come back from the mountains. A line from an old Dirty Harry movie has been my mantra, "A man has got to know his limitations."

[appletree]

I got back two days ago (well, Christmas eve).
I survived. It got pretty dang cold a few nights in Sequoia NP and then King's Canyon.

Hiked to the top of Yose Fall (was a bit let down I couldn't even see Half Dome, haha).

Overall the trip was great. Did almost run out of gas. Like literally on fumes in the middle of the desert when driving from Joshua Tree to Death Valley.
Other than that, everything went well. Even with no chains. I got pretty lucky dodging weather.

[appletree]

Also, I got caught once being un-prepared. And stupid. Luckily it didn't bite me, but easily could have.
I hiked Yose Falls. Never initially intending to actually hike the entire thing. I was just going to go 1-2 miles in. But this was never really clear to me nor did I do any homework.

So, I go pay for my campsite the next morning [by the way, can't all the parks just do it the same way??] and talk to the ranger. He suggests I start off with that hike not end my day with it.
I take his suggestion and plan to do it first, hoping to finish by 2ish so I can drive around and see some more sites from the car/pull over to the side. It is around 9:30AM.

I set out and eventually realize that damn my pack is heavy. I start to notice that literally no-one has a large pack...except for those camping overnight, or so various people told me.
I always realize there are NO mile markers or signs or much of anything. And before I know it it is 12:30 and I finally ask someone. They say, oh yeah you are only about 45 mins to the top. Then someone tells me, well the end is subjective, you can just keep hiking if you wanted to.

So now, I am like dang. Might as well just keep hiking to the top. I brought one Nalgene of water and a cliff bar. Nothing else except cameras, film, matches, and other odds and ends.
I get up there around 1:15 and decide I can only shoot until around 2PM and need to head back down, because it will get dark around 4:30.
To which I remember, dang I left my headlamp and flashlight in the car...

So I shoot until 2PM and head down. Keep in mind, when I got to the top I truly thought to myself I was a little worried. Because I was exhausted. I wanted to throw my pack off the cliffs to the bottom. Haha.
And I started thinking, damn, I am going to do this, but it is going to be tough.

I muster up and head down. Well, as you can imagine, I am probably 60% of the way down and it starts getting a bit dark. And I have not seen much of anyone for a while.
Eventually it gets pretty dang dark and I am going real slow. I had knee surgery in February, so I am being gentle. I did have poles which I am happy I used them (for the only time on the trip).

I get about 3/4 mile from the bottom and notice two people sitting there. They said, we were waiting for you since we passed you up a while ago and noticed you had no light. Walk the rest of the way with us.
And so I did. I got back into my car around 5:45ish.

It would not have taken much for me to slip, twist an ankle while alone, run into a mountain lion or bear, etc. I felt truly embarrassed...as an eagle scout who always quotes BE PREPARED. I definitely was not prepared. I never should have gone to the top.

[Leszek Vogt]

Good to hear you made it and are OK. Bruised ego will heal :>). Although this is bit of spilled milk, any extensive hike where a flashlight will be used.....spare battery should be considered, as well. Well, that also goes for camera meter....if you use such. Hope you had a good time and would be nice to see some pics....hope they are not dark :>).

Les