Tripod conundrum

[ndavidson27]

So, I recently picked up a Feisol 3372 CF Tripod as legs for my 8x10 Kodak 2D. I was specifically looking at Feisol's because of the cost, weight, and large diameter mounting base (90mm). After purchase and receiving it, I realized that the mounting screw is 3/8", while the mount on the 2D is 1/4".

While the center column that I received with the tripod has a reversible 3/8" to 1/4" screw, it adds unnecessary weight, height, and stability. I reached out to Feisol, and the only other recommendation they have is to use a release clamp that sits flush with the base, and then use a large Arca-Swiss release plate. While this may be a better option than using the center column, it now adds an additional cost.

I guess my question now is, is it possible to replace the 1/4" tripod mount on the tripod block of my 2D with a 3/8"? I use the tripod block extensively, and would rather fabricate/modify the block instead of mount on the camera itself. Has anyone done something like this? I was also interested in using Feisol's panning and leveling base, but they both have 3/8" mounts as well. I am really trying to avoid using a ball or pan/tilt head.

[Peter De Smidt]

Add a 3/8this threaded insert to the tripod block.

[Leigh]

If the block can be removed from the camera, boring it out and tapping to 3/8"-16 is pretty trivial.

I need to check the specific dimensions to be sure there's enough meat to create proper 3/8" threads.

- Leigh

[Leigh]

Add a 3/8this threaded insert to the tripod block.
Wrong direction.

The tripod (male) is 3/8".

The camera (female) is 1/4".

- Leigh

[Jac@stafford.net]

I guess my question now is, is it possible to replace the 1/4" tripod mount on the tripod block of my 2D with a 3/8"?

Yes. It is a trivial drill & tap operation. Do you have any tools or about $20 to have it done?
You can also spend a bit more for an adapter like this (https://www.manfrotto.us/adapter-for-tripods-3-8-to-1-4), or a hell of a lot more for a Linhof version.

[ndavidson27]

Wrong direction.

The tripod (male) is 3/8".

The camera (female) is 1/4".

- Leigh

Yeah I was looking that up, and I was having a hard time understanding how that would work. There are 3/8 to 1/4 adapters, such as this (https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-steel-screw-cameras-tripod/dp/B013T6V9SI/ref=sr_1_6?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1477013947&sr=1-6&keywords=1+4+to+3+8+adapter), but then I'm putting the 8x10 on a tiny surface area.

The block is a separate piece, and acts very much like a QR plate. (http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?attachments/2dblock2a-jpg.27330/). It's 5/8" thick, and about 4"x9".

Thanks for the quick replies everyone.

[ndavidson27]

Yes. It is a trivial drill & tap operation. Do you have any tools or about $20 to have it done?
You can also spend a bit more for an adapter like this (https://www.manfrotto.us/adapter-for-tripods-3-8-to-1-4), or a hell of a lot more for a Linhof version.

Tools - probably not. $20, yes.

[ndavidson27]

Also would like to avoid adding any extra hardware between the base of the tripod and the 8x10 - so if it's "trivial" (or pay someone to do it), I would rather go that route.

[Leigh]

When requesting assistance, your location is critical to getting a response.

That should be added to your profile so it appears in every post.

- Leigh

[ndavidson27]

Thanks for the heads up

[Peter De Smidt]

The tripod block is the
2D part that the camera slides in. I had one for years. I added a 3/8s inch threaded insert. The tripod block screws onto the tripod's screw. The camera slides into the block. ....

[ndavidson27]

The tripod block is the
2D part that the camera slides in. I had one for years. I added a 3/8s inch threaded insert. The tripod block screws onto the tripod's screw. The camera slides into the block. ....

How can you increase the size of the female end? I only see 3/8 to 1/4 reducers for female ends.

Do you have a link you can point me to?

[Jim Jones]

Peter's suggestion is good. I suggest epoxying a threaded insert in place in addition to relying only on its threads to prevent changes in temperature and humidity from loosening it. A T-nut with the flange opposite the tripod is also strong.

[Keith Pitman]

This is what other responders mean by threaded insert:

http://www.rockler.com/steel-threaded-inserts-select-size

You can also find them in brass.

You should be able to find them at HD, Lowes, Ace, etc.

Make sure you get 3/8-16.

They are a little tricky to install. Go slow and make sure it goes in straight.

[Leigh]

This is what other responders mean by threaded insert:
http://www.rockler.com/steel-threaded-inserts-select-size
Yep. Those are standard thread reducers.

Which are just the opposite of what we need for this project.

In the OP's case the bolt is 3/8"-16 and the "nut" is 1/4"-20. The bolt is too large for the nut.

- Leigh

[ndavidson27]

Yep. Those are standard thread reducers.

Which are just the opposite of what we need for this project.

In the OP's case the bolt is 3/8"-16 and the "nut" is 1/4"-20. The bolt is too large for the nut.

- Leigh

Correct. 3/8" male bolt on the tripod. 1/4" female on the block/camera.

[Tin Can]

Try this, it's stronger than an insert in wood.

I would inset and work hard with a jig to get it installed absolutely square.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Hillman-Group-3-8-in-16-tpi-x-7-16-in-x-1-in-Stainless-Steel-Round-Base-Tee-Nut-8-Pack-4146/204775367?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-204775259-_-204775367-_-N

[Wayne Aho]

Hardware store have 3/8" inserts for wood. Just drill another hole in the tripod block near the 1/4" hole.

[Leigh]

Hardware store have 3/8" inserts for wood. Just drill another hole in the tripod block near the 1/4" hole.
Those inserts installed in thin wood are nowhere near strong enough to support an 8x10 camera.
And the minimum wood thickness for 3/8"-16 inserts is 0.513".

These are the style under discussion: http://www.atwaterkent.info/Images/woodinsert3-8.png
The product description page is here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#90973a120/=14oz6lx

I suggest the only sufficiently robust solution is to have a metal plate inside the camera.

- Leigh

[Peter De Smidt]

This is a 2D tripod block: http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?threads/fs-kodak-2d-8x10-camera-w-accessories.131140/ Look in the fourth post, first image. They have a 1/4" female threaded insert as standard. My suggestion is to drill another hole in the wood and install a 3/8-16 insert or t-nut, as Jim and Randy have suggested. Big inserts are a pain to install directly, and so Jim's suggestion of using a slightly bigger hole and epoxy makes a lot of sense. Randy's t-nut suggestion would be even easier. I used an insert when I modified my 2D tripod block, whereas I used t-nuts when I redid my Century stand.

Having used the suggested solution for 10 years with my 2D, I disagree with Leigh. Leigh, it's not the camera that gets attached to the tripod screw. It's the tripod block, which is approximately 3/4" thick wood, which is plenty thick for an insert or t-nut. The camera slides in to the metal rails of the block. This allows one to center the camera, with our without extensions, on the tripod.

[Leigh]

Randy's t-nut suggestion would be even easier.
"Easy" and "reliable" are NOT synonymous.

I'm __assuming__ the OP does not want his camera to fall to the ground due to an insert pulling out.

There are criteria in this world more important than "easy".

- Leigh

[Peter De Smidt]

"Easy" and "reliable" are NOT synonymous.

I'm __assuming__ the OP does not want his camera to fall to the ground due to an insert pulling out.

There are criteria in this world more important than "easy".

- Leigh

How can a t-nut, one that comes through the 3/4" thick wood from the top side, "pull out"? I.e. the metal lip is on top of the hole sized for for the sleeve of the nut. The bolt comes in from the bottom. The wood would have to totally fail.

Using a threaded insert is exactly what Kodak did, and so using another one (or the t-nut) seems perfectly reasonable.

FYI, I used two tripod screws with my 2D, one 1/4" and one 3/8". I would then slide them into the slot on a Gitzo series 5 pan-tilt head. With two screws it was impossible for the camera to twist on the head. Here's a video using one screw, but it should give the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-jXeJtw_24

[Leigh]

If that's good hardwood 3/4" thick, then the tee-nut should work reliably.

I too use the two-screw arrangement for my view cameras on my Majestic tripod to prevent camera rotation.

- Leigh

[Jac@stafford.net]

I add a recommendation to countersink the round T-nut head to be flush or slightly lower than the surface.
Use a forstner bit.

[ndavidson27]

OK - so after reading everyone's suggestions, I believe the consensus is:

- Use a threaded insert, or (recommended) a T-nut, such as this (http://www.homedepot.com/p/The-Hillman-Group-3-8-in-16-tpi-x-7-16-in-x-1-in-Stainless-Steel-Round-Base-Tee-Nut-8-Pack-4146/204775367)
- Either drill out the existing 1/4 insert and replace with the 3/8, or drill a new hole in the tripod block NEXT to the existing insert, and have a 1/4 and 3/8 insert for additional compatibility or stability, depending on use.
- Use forstner bit to create space so that the wide part of the T-nut sits flush with the bottom of the block.

This doesn't sound too difficult, just need some of the hardware and tools to get the job done. If there are any more suggestions, I'll be glad to take them. Thanks everyone for their input.

[Peter De Smidt]

If you add a connector (recommended) instead of replacing the old one, make sure to leave enough space between them. If you're new to this type of work, practice on a spare piece before trying it on your tripod block. If in doubt, have an experienced wood worker do it.

Another option: Make an adapter the size (or a little bigger) of your tripod head, or if you're not using a head, the top of the tripod. It would be a spacer between the tripod and the 2D's tripod bock. Put a 3/8 insert on the bottom, and put a 1/4-20" bolt going up. Mount the spacer onto the tripod, and then mount the 2D tripod block onto the spacer. This would be a good option if you don't want to modify the 2D's tripod block.

For instance, I wanted to use a Gitzo head on my Zone VI Standard tripod. The large flat plat of the tripod interfered with part of the tripod head, and so I made a spacer. In this case it had 3/8" female threads on the bottom and 3/8" male threads on top, but there's no reason why you couldn't do 1/4-20" on the top.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tbclebvwmht7ugz/Tripod_spacer.jpg?raw=1

[ndavidson27]

Good idea on the homemade spacer/adapter. I'll bounce that idea around.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Peter, it is funny but I have one of those home made round spacer-adapters right here on my table. :)

156531

Regarding the block with T-nuts, I would drill two boards, place the nuts head-to-head, then glue the boards together. Place a stud in the upper 1/4" nut.

156530

[Peter De Smidt]

Great stuff, Jac! That would be an easy way to make one.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Great stuff, Jac! That would be an easy way to make one.

The two-board thing? I'll bet you, just like me, would whip one out for the OP if we had the proper camera for dimensions.

[Leigh]

Place a stud in the upper 1/4" nut.
But the 1/4" male must rotate to connect to the camera.

Perhaps your intent is to screw the block onto the camera, then affix it to the tripod, yes?

If that's the intent, just use a carriage bolt for the male thread.
That's designed to cut into the wood to prevent it from rotating.

To use a nut and stud you'd need to join them with a permanent thread locker to prevent them coming loose.

- Leigh

[Jac@stafford.net]

But the 1/4" male must rotate to connect to the camera.

Perhaps your intent is to screw the block onto the camera, then affix it to the tripod, yes?

If that's the intent, just use a carriage bolt for the male thread.
That's designed to cut into the wood to prevent it from rotating.

To use a nut and stud you'd need to join them with a permanent thread locker to prevent them coming loose.

- Leigh

Apply thread locker to the 1/4" stud in the block, then immediately screw the camera down on the block in the correct orientation. It need not be a binding tightness, only snug. In half an hour you can remove the camera and the stud stays in place. I am sorry I did not make that point. It works for me.

[cowanw]

Does no other tripod fit your specs?
And then sell the feisol.