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lharby
18-Oct-2016, 03:15
Hi

I am relatively new here.

TL/DR: I am interested in hearing if anyone has encountered horror stories when shooting LF and having people either be a nuisance or destructive.

My hope is that the stories are limited. It might be some paranoia on my part.

A few weeks ago I was out at night shooting MF. I was set up along a watercourse which has a cycle path running through. At one point I saw a cyclist approaching as I was nearing the end of a 2 minute exposure. I was on a footbridge and started moving the tripod. I am sure nothing would of happened although I would have been impeding his path had I stayed there.

I have much heavier gear for the MF so the movability of it would be an issue, but the cost of replacing or repairing equipment would be pretty heartbreaking.

I have had the odd bit of street hassle in the past, although never any equipment damaged (apart from my own misuse).

I hope this is the right place to post, I did search the forums and found an amusing thread about animals attacking us, but was interested in human interaction.

If you have some heartwarming stories, feel free to post those too!

Two23
18-Oct-2016, 06:04
I shoot at night a lot. I prefer winter, as no one ever bothers me once the temperature starts falling below 20F. I always carry a small flashlight to warn any approaching bicycles. In the wilder, remote areas I carry either a small 20 ga. shotgun or pistol to discourage mountain lions. I've never really had any problems, but I tend to avoid high crime areas.


Kent in SD

Richard Wasserman
18-Oct-2016, 06:15
I know that some people have had problems, but I am not one of them. I work primarily in urban areas, many of which are not the most desirable, and the worst problems I have had is drivers blowing car horns in an attempt to startle me—which usually does work. On the other hand, most people simply ignore me. Those who don't, express interest and support in what I am hoping to accomplish, or simple curiosity about my weird looking camera. I have had homeless men look out for me and invite me to share a bottle of wine. Police have waved at me as they go by, although a couple have stopped to talk with me about cameras.

Maybe I'm just lucky? I assume people are generally good and nice and I have not been disappointed so far. I do remain aware of my surroundings and have either not gone to certain areas, or left if I don't like the way they feel. I also carry pepper spray which is more to make me (and my wife) Feel secure, but is probably a questionable deterrent if things were to go bad.

Good luck!

LabRat
18-Oct-2016, 06:30
In urban areas, plan your shot, set up/shoot, don't dawdle around when finished/bail... Don't make a big production when shooting... If the area is questionable, have a big, scary looking assistant watching your back...

FWIW, the biggest problem I have had is with security guards, even when I was on proper city property (the street), that were telling me to leave because no photography was permitted...

As always, use good judgement...

Steve K

BrianShaw
18-Oct-2016, 08:26
Never had a significant problem. Once detained/questioned by private security but I was on their private property. Offered to wait for the police but all they wanted was a rational explanation of what and why I was photographing. Total time involved was about 10 minutes.

Several times had folks comment about my cool antique camera... And the stand in front of me admiring the view I was trying to photograph. Annoying but never a major problem.

When photographing in a rough or unfamiliar area I try to bring a friend to watch my back... Just in case.

Drew Wiley
18-Oct-2016, 09:19
Well I've never related mountains lions to street photography. And I never worry about them. After all, they prefer easy game whenever possible, like fawns or
poodles, or photographers with little smartphones, not someone lugging a big mahogany box atop as set of spiked feet. To borrow words from Ed Abbey, any critter that eats digital photographers can't be all that bad. And as far as night photography in the city goes, I simply don't do it underneath a darkcloth unless someone else is with me as a lookout. Getting hassled in relatively predictable: if you're causing a potential inconvenience to pedestrians or traffic, if you're hanging around paranoid burbs or exclusive rich estates like obnoxious paparrazi. Or maybe some neophyte to law enforcement has never seen a large camera before and is worried what it is. If your are questioned, a mild sense of humor and friendliness goes a lot further to defuse tensions and standing on a soapbox shouting your rights.

Alan Gales
18-Oct-2016, 13:32
If your are questioned, a mild sense of humor and friendliness goes a lot further to defuse tensions and standing on a soapbox shouting your rights.

And if all else fails there is also the spiked end of a Ries tripod leg. ;)


I live in St. Louis and I've never been hassled so far. Of course I use common sense and try not to be in anyone's way. I also stay out of the dangerous areas.

K. Praslowicz
18-Oct-2016, 14:36
Nuisance: often
Destructive: never

And by nuisance, generally not intentionally trying to ruin the image or anything. Just curious people walking up and asking questions while I'm trying to focus and hurry to set up for a rapidly changing scene. Ruined one photo of a race start a few years back because some guy kept telling me how he likes to collect old cameras and wanted to buy mine on the spot. Can only pretend to be under the dark cloth and not hearing them for so long. Should have offered it to him for 5x the value and bought a better camera the next day.

Kirk Gittings
18-Oct-2016, 16:02
Most of the problems I have had were people wanting to talk to me while I'm concentrating on a shot. Once while on assignment for New Mexico Magazine some people approached me. There was a small gap in the clouds right at the horizon which would give me killer light on the building-but very briefly. I had to concentrate on the image and my tight deadline. I was shooting 4x5 chrome and needed to nail it-no time for a polaroid or to bracket. I tried at first to explain the situation and that I would be happy to talk with them after the sun went down, but they wouldn't friken shut up. Yak yak yak. We've been here and there and tomorrow were going over there......... I finally told them very bluntly to be quite please so I could concentrate. They got very upset and called the art director at NMM the next day. She got a good laugh out of it and loved the shot. She thought they were total narcissists from their telephone call. I have often encountered tourists with an amazing sense of entitlement like I am their taking pictures for their entertainment. It makes me realize why so many of my native American friends hate tourists.

Alan Gales
18-Oct-2016, 17:24
Most of the problems I have had were people wanting to talk to me while I'm concentrating on a shot. Once while on assignment for New Mexico Magazine some people approached me. There was a small gap in the clouds right at the horizon which would give me killer light on the building-but very briefly. I had to concentrate on the image and my tight deadline. I was shooting 4x5 chrome and needed to nail it-no time for a polaroid or to bracket. I tried at first to explain the situation and that I would be happy to talk with them after the sun went down, but they wouldn't friken shut up. Yak yak yak. We've been here and there and tomorrow were going over there......... I finally told them very bluntly to be quite please so I could concentrate. They got very upset and called the art director at NMM the next day. She got a good laugh out of it and loved the shot. She thought they were total narcissists from their telephone call. I have often encountered tourists with an amazing sense of entitlement like I am their taking pictures for their entertainment. It makes me realize why so many of my native American friends hate tourists.

;)


How many times have people walked out in front of your camera like you aren't even there? It's not being hassled but it is a hassle.

BrianShaw
18-Oct-2016, 17:34
I've found people to be oblivious about that but cooperative when asked to step aside.

Leigh
18-Oct-2016, 18:01
I have an interesting solution to this problem...

I can't speak, the result of a neurological problem that paralyzed my jaw muscles.

When folks try to start a conversion, but I don't participate, they usually give up.

- Leigh

Alan Gales
18-Oct-2016, 18:08
I can't speak, the result of a neurological problem that paralyzed my jaw muscles.



- Leigh


I'm sorry to hear that, Leigh.

lharby
19-Oct-2016, 01:02
Thanks everyone, this is somewhat comforting.

I remember years ago going out with a couple of friends and one bought a golf club in case of any issues, although in a way I think that potentially invite trouble. Difficult in the UK to carry anything more damaging than that.


FWIW, the biggest problem I have had is with security guards, even when I was on proper city property (the street), that were telling me to leave because no photography was permitted...

I hear you on this one, they get very twitchy don't they, trying to flex their muscles, almost as if they have something to hide.

Willie
19-Oct-2016, 06:10
I understand the UK does not let citizens own firearms. Didn't that policy start right after 1776?

BrianShaw
19-Oct-2016, 07:01
Golf club; isn't that too fragile? In my part of the world we carry a baseball bat. Also a hat and ball just in case the bat gets mistaken for a defensive weapon.

Greg Davis
19-Oct-2016, 12:59
I have a couple orange safety cones, an orange reflective vest, and a clipboard. These make me look like I'm on some kind of official business and people ignore me like I'm not even there. The clipboard is important. If people ask questions, look at the clipboard and ask if they are authorized to ask them. They'll go away.

Bob Salomon
19-Oct-2016, 13:27
I understand the UK does not let citizens own firearms. Didn't that policy start right after 1776?

That wouldn't explain all those U.K. grouse hunts or the success of English companies like Purdy!

Michael E
19-Oct-2016, 13:54
I choose the LF camera if I don't want to be hassled. People simply react with much more sympathethy to a wood camera than a DSLR. I just returned after three weeks in Quito, Ecuador. Same story as in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, three years ago: Even in rough neighbourhoods with me shooting run-down buildings while the owners watch, people smile, give me thumbs up, lough at me, snap images of me and my camera with their cell phone, ask questions about the camera or want to look at the ground glass. There were many places I wouldn't feel comfortable with a DSLR. Basically the same experience in Europe and the US. The better the neighborhood, the more likely I have a run-in with a security guard or owner. I just explain friendly what I'm doing and proceed to take my picture.

Drew Wiley
19-Oct-2016, 16:00
I've related this over and over again, but people who are serious outdoor types themselves, either on local trails or in wilderness areas, tend to be extremely
respectful, and never step in front of my camera without asking, and don't even ask questions until they've heard the shutter trip. Popular National Park parking
lots or even turnouts are a totally different story. If you merely set a camera on a tripod beside the road in Yosemite, all of a sudden six cars will pull over, spewing dust everywhere, with people wildly machine-gunning their phones and DLSR's every whichaway, who would drive right past otherwise unless there was a sign stating, scenic turnout. They'll even crowd around the cameras taking selfies. That's why I generally avoid such places. Best to sneak a few yards off the road
and into the woods a bit, where they can't see you. Better yet, hike a week in.

Drew Wiley
19-Oct-2016, 16:02
... Sorry if I drifted a tiny bit off topic. But to me anything involving a road in Yosemite during tourist season is essentially urban street photography. There certainly are enough people around.

Two23
19-Oct-2016, 17:50
I have a couple orange safety cones, an orange reflective vest, and a clipboard. These make me look like I'm on some kind of official business and people ignore me like I'm not even there. The clipboard is important. If people ask questions, look at the clipboard and ask if they are authorized to ask them. They'll go away.


I call that "urban camoflauge!"


Kent in SD

lharby
20-Oct-2016, 04:42
... Sorry if I drifted a tiny bit off topic. But to me anything involving a road in Yosemite during tourist season is essentially urban street photography. There certainly are enough people around.

Ha, I was thinking of getting a theodolite.

Drew Wiley
20-Oct-2016, 15:46
Maybe a plasma laser disguised as a theodolite, something more apocalyptic towards nuisance people.

ValoPeikko
23-Oct-2016, 02:04
It's funny how people from places like US think that because we don't have gun violence (at least it's very very minimal) in Nordic countries that we don't own guns or have right to own guns. How ever all nordic countries fit with in the top 20 countries with most licensed guns per capita. We simply don't carry them out on the streets nor do we shoot each other with them..

ValoPeikko
23-Oct-2016, 02:05
It's funny how people from places like US think that because we don't have gun violence (at least it's very very minimal) in Nordic countries that we don't own guns or have right to own guns. How ever all nordic countries fit with in the top 20 countries with most licensed guns per capita. We simply don't carry them out on the streets nor do we shoot each other with them..

This was a comment about weapons in UK (didn't remember to add quote, new to this forum software).

Oren Grad
23-Oct-2016, 12:08
A gentle reminder that, per our guidelines, debates on firearms policy are not appropriate for this Forum. Please let's stay on-photographic-topic.

jnanian
24-Oct-2016, 03:36
Hi

I am relatively new here.

TL/DR: I am interested in hearing if anyone has encountered horror stories when shooting LF and having people either be a nuisance or destructive.

My hope is that the stories are limited. It might be some paranoia on my part.

A few weeks ago I was out at night shooting MF. I was set up along a watercourse which has a cycle path running through. At one point I saw a cyclist approaching as I was nearing the end of a 2 minute exposure. I was on a footbridge and started moving the tripod. I am sure nothing would of happened although I would have been impeding his path had I stayed there.

I have much heavier gear for the MF so the movability of it would be an issue, but the cost of replacing or repairing equipment would be pretty heartbreaking.

I have had the odd bit of street hassle in the past, although never any equipment damaged (apart from my own misuse).

I hope this is the right place to post, I did search the forums and found an amusing thread about animals attacking us, but was interested in human interaction.

If you have some heartwarming stories, feel free to post those too!


i've had troubles but they weren't with LF cameras.

Milonian
24-Oct-2016, 08:46
Just getting used to the Shen Hao in Edinburgh during the tourist season when a coach/mini-bus pulled up behind me and about 30 Japanese tourists poured out. One spoke to me - he had a baseball cap with "The Beatles" embroidered on the front - while the rest lined up and took pictures on their phones. Apart from 2 or 3 who hung back and didn't take pictures. I don't wonder about the ones that took photos but I do wonder why the others didn't!
Mostly I find people are friendly and curious. They all want to see what's on the GG.

Ari
24-Oct-2016, 09:12
I understand the UK does not let citizens own firearms. Didn't that policy start right after 1776?

Hmm...only 15 posts until guns got mentioned; usually takes 25-30 posts.

Drew Wiley
24-Oct-2016, 11:03
Hmmm ... Other than being sensitive not to place a tripod or other bulky gear where it comprises an obstruction to pedestrians or cyclists, I do find people are less
annoyed with a view camera than an SLR or phone pointed at them, invading their privacy.

neil poulsen
24-Oct-2016, 11:40
When photographing in a public area, I go about my business and don't pay much attention, other than to the scene.

Occasionally, someone will approach and begin a conversation. I think the best role to play is that of an ambassador, so I try to be informative about the project and process. LF is interesting, so one can usually engage people on that level. Who knows, it might make a difference for the next photographer the person encounters.

Probably the greatest annoyance is being set up and taking a photograph, when someone pulls up in their SUV and parks in front of the camera. Depending on the circumstances, I may ask them to please park in a different location while I finish. More often though, people will be very considerate in their attempts to avoid disturbing a photograph that's in progress.

aluncrockford
24-Oct-2016, 14:13
When photographing in a public area, I go about my business and don't pay much attention, other than to the scene.

Occasionally, someone will approach and begin a conversation. I think the best role to play is that of an ambassador, so I try to be informative about the project and process. LF is interesting, so one can usually engage people on that level. Who knows, it might make a difference for the next photographer the person encounters.

Probably the greatest annoyance is being set up and taking a photograph, when someone pulls up in their SUV and parks in front of the camera. Depending on the circumstances, I may ask them to please park in a different location while I finish. More often though, people will be very considerate in their attempts to avoid disturbing a photograph that's in progress.

I completely agree , being polite and taking time to show people what you are doing is part of the world of large format photography, and you might well find that the this approach reduces any tension and you never know the observer might turn into your subject.
As for taking a golf club on a shoot, that suggests a mindset that is not entirely at one with the world of photography.

Jac@stafford.net
24-Oct-2016, 15:05
I am chronically shy. It is usually terribly difficult to speak to strangers.
However through associations with stage actors I found that many of
then have the same issue: stage fright. Yes.

After I had a heart attack I found a stunning side effect of one of
the meds I was prescribed to lower blood pressure: Propranolol.
An off-label use of it demolishes stage-fright and also makes
everyday interaction benign.

Just my two-bits.
.

ValoPeikko
25-Oct-2016, 04:27
Only issues I've had have been with security guards who step out side their boundaries (trying to forbid photography in places where it can't be by law forbidden) or with police when taking pictures during demonstrations and/or when they try to brake apart demonstrations. In both of those cases I'm with in my right doing what I'm doing. But I'm not going to get thrown in custody for a night only because a single picture. Unless that picture is worth it (picturing unnecessary use of force for example), then I'll take the pictures no matter the cost. First case happens at times with LF gear, second never since I wouldn't try to set up a 4x5 or larger in places like that :D

General public has never been an issue. They've always been supportive or humored, but never caused problems.

lharby
25-Oct-2016, 10:24
As for taking a golf club on a shoot, that suggests a mindset that is not entirely at one with the world of photography.

I don't disagree, however this was many years ago with friends and we were shooting in underpasses, subways, etc in a very seedy part of town, even then perhaps it was a mistake to take it.

I think if I was stood out in pure nature it would not be at all necessary, unless I was actually playing golf.

Andrew O'Neill
25-Oct-2016, 12:46
When I was in DV a few years ago up on a dune catching the last of the sun's ray, a Chinese lady with a massive dslr, started taking photos of me and my 8x10. She clicked away, all round my camera, even in front while I was composing... and even when I was about to take the shot. I had enough! I asked her very bluntly, "did you come here to photograph dunes or me?" She stopped.

Jac@stafford.net
25-Oct-2016, 13:46
"Hey, Mister. Why you lookin inside dat accordion?

tgtaylor
27-Oct-2016, 14:03
After I got into photography back in the 90's, I started doing night street photography. This is a view of the classic marque of San Francisco's Tenderloin hotel The Senator:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5571/29974199744_735dc957a9_z.jpg

Although I was well familiar with the Tenderloin it had been several years since I had last been in there and a lot had changed. Back then it was a skid row section filled with wino's and people down on their luck and wasn't dangerous. But gangs moved in - I was told that this was precipitated by a outlet of The Black Muslim Bakery from Oakland moving in which brought in the gangs. Anyway I was working my way up Ellis street when I came to the Senator with the sign appropriately casting its red light over the neighborhood. So I stepped out in the street at the intersection and mounted a 135mm lens on the F3 and proceeded to compose. I heard some muffled voices coming from the corker and looking over my right shoulder saw what must have been a dozen or more young men and I fancied that I was the subject of the conversation. I looked over my left shoulder and would you believe it - about a half block down was two SF police vehicles slowly proceeding up Ellis with uniformed officers escorting on both sides of the street. If it wasn't for the fortuitous police sweep I would have been out of a camera kit at the least.

https://www.chp-sf.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Senator_Property-Overview.pdf

Thomas

Drew Wiley
27-Oct-2016, 16:03
Not terribly long ago, that Bakery was the scene of a contract killing between an internal ideological rivalry. Nice neighborhood to stay away from. I'm wearing boots from the Redwing shoe store down the street. You can't just walk in. You have to wait for them to unlock the front door, then they lock it behind you. But the boots are good US made ones, which you can't find at just any Redwing franchise.

John Layton
3-Nov-2016, 15:36
a few years back...I heard the familiar "click" as a soldier in Gambella, Ethiopia, disengaged the safety on his AK as I raised my camera. Then, one of our party produced a soccer ball, upon which time a raucous pickup game ensued between our group and the military unit - and all was well!

Drew Wiley
4-Nov-2016, 11:36
That was wise. Reminds me of being confronted in the sage country, and whether or not I'm a govt spy, using some big wierd instrument. I just change the tone of
my voice to a slow drawl and comment... "Nice hoss ye got thar, hit reminds me of my ole apaloosy thet would get inter th oats..., blah, blah". Next thing you knew, they were your best friend.

Winger
4-Nov-2016, 11:56
Until last weekend, all of my encounters had been pleasant and didn't encroach on my picture-taking. But I was on the side of a stream in a state park and had just set up and focused my Chamonix on a small waterfall with a few cool looking rocks with nice leaves on top. I didn't think I was invisible or that the camera was invisible, but a guy came walking up through the stream and jumped right onto the main rock (yes, knocking off some leaves). I knew he saw me, but he really didn't seem to care that he was right where the camera was aimed. His buddy was a little behind him because he wasn't quite as fit. The second guy waded instead of trying to jump on the wet rock, so at least some leaves remained. After getting out of the way, they just walked back the direction they'd come from, but on the actual trail. Of course, by the time they were out of the way the sun and clouds had moved enough that the light wasn't quite as good. I took a shot anyway, but I think going back will be a better bet.
All other times I've been aiming the 4x5 (or smaller stuff), people have asked before walking anywhere near what I was shooting.

Leszek Vogt
4-Nov-2016, 18:54
Never had any issues, tho people can be sometimes annoyingly too nice as they slam on the brakes, when I or someone points a camera across the road. Anyway, I do carry a spray when I go into wilds of AK....and glad I never had to use it.

Les

Willie
8-Nov-2016, 18:11
https://www.umarexusa.com/products/umarex-steel-storm

You carry one of these and hope you don't run into idiots with the real thing?

Rory_5244
10-Nov-2016, 14:27
Unfortunately, I've taken most of my pictures in a country with one of the highest per capita murder and violence rates in the world. I've been heckled, cursed, made fun of (mostly along the lines that I "need a woman", or I need to "get a life"). I was up on a small cliff in 2004 with the Arca-Swiss taking a pano when a Rastafarian walked up behind me. I was aware of him. He wondered out aloud about what would happen if someone were to push me off the cliff. I packed up at that point. I only take pictures in my former home after scouting an area over a period of a few days to ascertain who goes there and when they do so. Although many people are curious when they see the view camera, others are not: the alien nature of the camera and the skinny dweeb operating it fuels animosity.

Drew Wiley
10-Nov-2016, 16:20
Don't ever carry something like that around here, Willie. The gangbangers will gun you down just to get their hands on it, if the cops don't shoot you first! Too many real guns on the streets; and even BB guns are being used on people for cruel fun. They will put an eye out.

Willie
10-Nov-2016, 18:07
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/H_N_Excite_Smart_Shot_177_Cal_7_4_Grains_Copper_Plated_Lead_BBs_500ct/1273

Gee Drew, I use these BB's because they don't ricochet and bounce back.

As for air powered rifles, my Uncle has a beautiful .45 that he uses on coyotes. More powerful than black powder firearms, no smoke or muzzle flash and with the integrated suppressor(silencer) the sound of the .45 slug hitting is louder than the shot. He also has some beautiful Korean .22 cal air rifles he uses to eliminate muskrats, raccoons, skunks and the like at 30-70 yards or so. Best thing with these is the accuracy and low cost of ammo.
Hard to get .22 ammo here the past few years while getting high quality pellets is easy. So - nailing pest animals or trespassers with eye shots at 70 yards or so is easy.

http://lewisandclarktrail.com/lewisairgun.htm

Lewis and Clark expedition carried an air rifle that would shoot 20 shots within 30 seconds. Every time the expedition came to a new Indian village or tribe they would march in dressed in their Class A uniforms, fife and drum playing and do a shooting expedition. A rifle with no powder smoke, no fire from powder and shooting holes in 1 inch boards at 100 yards gave an interesting demonstration. Those watching did not know how many of these rifles they had. Supposedly this helped keep the peace.

Best of all, for us - Air Rifles are not firearms.

Drew Wiley
11-Nov-2016, 09:23
Well, I'm actually allied to the coyotes. Figure out what my nickname at work is. The office gals even gave me a little furry puppet of Wile E. Coyote. I miss coyotes quite a bit since selling my place in the mtns, though smaller, less musical packs do form on the hill behind me here. Normally you just see lots of pairs
of coyotes here, or solitary ones. I've even worked my way into small packs and joined them for a howl, with pups right at my feet joining in too. Across the road from my old spread, the son of one of my ole cronies put up a house at the edge of their 500 acre pasture and would invite their buddies over every Sat morning. They'd drink a lot of beer and shoot a few hundred dollars worth of whatever center-fire rounds each time. The same coyote would just sit there yipping at them in front of the fence, teasing them every Saturday for hours on end. They never did hit him. That's the problem with abundant cheap beer. It's not the ammo.

Willie
11-Nov-2016, 10:20
Drew,

You don't have livestock or fowl. Coyotes are damn hard on them. Even worse when they gang up and send one in to lure the dogs from the barnyard. One goes out and suddenly four and more coyotes attack.
Yes, we shoot coyotes and get a few. No danger of running out of them as they grow a new crop each spring.

The .45 cal air rifle by AirForce is one sweet shooter and hits like a mule.

But, back to street hassles. A .45 1911 works wonders in discouraging those who would make threats and/or walk off with gear while I am out and about with it.

Drew Wiley
11-Nov-2016, 11:16
You got no idea what I done had and don't done got, Willie. I grew up with cowboys and Indians, literally. Two cattle spreads in the vicinity were half a million acres apiece. As a kid, I briefly worked for mustangers who previously ran a full million acre ranch In Nevada. That pasture I told you about was previously owned by a sheepherder, and we still engaged in cattle and sheep drives into the high country each summer using Aussies. We had two subspecies of coyotes. Valley Coyotes were the little ones, forming large high-pitched chorus packs, often of up to twenty or thirty. Mountain coyotes were much bigger, capable of taking adult mule deer, with more that TV Western deep howl, and forming smaller packs. Never ever ever do I recall a livestock loss from coyotes. Domestic dogs were known to form packs and chase sheep to overheating, so they're what got shot, not coyotes. But in that part of the world, rodents and rabbits were so abundant that they were routinely the preferred prey for coyotes. They had plenty to eat. But yes, that diet would include cats and small dogs, which even hawks, eagles, and bobcats would take. Mtn lions were also common but specialized in the abundant deer. The only farm animals that interested them were twitchy goats, not boring passive sheep. Highly animated goats are kinda like wiggling yarn in front of a house cat. Goats and even wild turkeys can hold their own against coyotes. Here on the coast the turkeys get taken by bobcats and cougars. I wouldn't mind running over one for dinner, but it's against the law. Now I realize that in different terrain like desert or the plains, coyotes might have less abundant food and be tempted toward livestock. They are actually omnivorous and ate lots of manzanita berries, but above all else preferred gophers. Cottontails rabbits were something they'd hunt in pack fashion or pairs by moonlight. For awhile I had a renter who moved up from the SoCal burbs and assumed he knew something about the country. Well, as a house present he gave his wife a little cockapoodle. Coyotes ate it the first night. With big dogs, they'd simply tease them, lure them into a chase, then circle back around and eat their dog food in
the bowl. The dogs never figured it out. Outsmarted as usual. You gotta have something like an Aussie or Border Collie for that kind of canid IQ.

tgtaylor
11-Nov-2016, 12:19
157306

Thomas

Drew Wiley
11-Nov-2016, 12:34
Oh gosh, Thomas. That takes me back. Our grammer school was just about 50/50 Indian and white. There was a huge dirt playground, and every afternoon recess
what game do you think little kids played - yep, Cowboys and Indians. So every single day it ended with some predictable epithets, a mini race riot, and fistfights. Then we all had to sit in our own little "circle" drawn in the dirt till the end of recess. After that everyone was best friends again... until the next afternoon at least.

Jac@stafford.net
11-Nov-2016, 13:24
We had a lot of coyotes on the farm land (http://www.digoliardi.net/farm2.jpg) until we got a Great Pyrenees (http://www.digoliardi.net/molly_n_bigdog.jpg). Win/Win.

Drew Wiley
11-Nov-2016, 13:58
What a beautiful dog. I've seen em used quite a bit in Utah and Colorado up in the aspen, largely left on their own guarding sheep. Collies and Aussies need more direct supervision. We have good friends who trained Border Collies but are now retired. There is quite a bit of weed and brush control going on around here with rental goat herds. One of the goats had to be put down, so we were sitting around the BBQ fire listening to the herder's stories. He once had them back in the hills around LA when a coyote walked up to a billy goat and bit it on the rear. No need to send the dogs; that coyote got quite a lesson from the goat itself.

Jim Cole
14-Nov-2016, 21:30
When setting up a shot at Artist Point one time, a busload of Japanese tourists emptied out and made a bee line for me. I don't speak Japanese, but I think some were saying, "Let's take the same picture this guy is, because he looks like he knows what he's doing with a camera like that". In a matter of minutes, I had people putting their cameras in front of mine, on top of mine, next to mine, on my shoulders and over my head and one girl had the audacity to crawl under my Gitzo and take a picture from there. I was starting to get angry, but realized nothing was happening with the shot I wanted, so I just stood there and started smiling. I'd never seen anything like this in all my years of shooting.

Drew Wiley
15-Nov-2016, 12:58
I've had that happen with Japanese piling out of tour buses over here at the Golden Gate. Just bad timing. And normally I'm well away from the parking lot within
a few minutes anyway. Actual hikers tend to be extremely polite, and won't even step in front of a tripod without asking permission first. The last time we
were atop Haleakala in Maui, it amazed me how they piled off the tour bus and took selfies of each other, and almost none of them even bothered to walk a few
yards to the overlook itself. Herd mentality. Of course, the Japanese have plenty of serious outdoor types themselves, including the famous Himalayan photographers Shirakawa and Shirohata.

bob carnie
15-Nov-2016, 13:20
What a beautiful dog. I've seen em used quite a bit in Utah and Colorado up in the aspen, largely left on their own guarding sheep. Collies and Aussies need more direct supervision. We have good friends who trained Border Collies but are now retired. There is quite a bit of weed and brush control going on around here with rental goat herds. One of the goats had to be put down, so we were sitting around the BBQ fire listening to the herder's stories. He once had them back in the hills around LA when a coyote walked up to a billy goat and bit it on the rear. No need to send the dogs; that coyote got quite a lesson from the goat itself.

Drew that was pretty rude of you, the lady is quite beautiful too... geezz

Kevin Crisp
15-Nov-2016, 13:22
Actually air rifles and pistols ARE "firearms" in lots of places.

Jac@stafford.net
15-Nov-2016, 13:25
Drew that was pretty rude of you, the lady is quite beautiful too... geezz

That's me darling of 22 years.