PDA

View Full Version : Which is better for very heavy load: wood or CF and why. Read, only 2 are considered.



Randy Moe
3-Oct-2016, 19:07
I don't like almost every tripod I have except the first one I bought and it's only good for DSLR/35mm short lenses. Bought it 20 years ago. It's a keeper.

May we have arguments for and against 2 tripods. I know my usage and I will need strength of these big boys.

No other tripods need apply.

http://www.riestripod.com/product/the-a100-2-tripod-2/


http://www.gitzo.us/systematic-series-5-carbon-tripod-super-compact-6-section-gt5562lts

They are vastly different and each has advantages and disadvantages for me.

The tripod head for either could the same, as I really http://www.riestripod.com/product/the-a250-2-head/

Let's hear from Gitzo fans about http://www.gitzo.us/series-5-magnesium-low-profile-fluid-3way-head Is it good enough, can it carry more than the 22lbs rating?


What say ye?

Oren Grad
3-Oct-2016, 20:08
FWIW, I have a Ries A100/A250 set (not the "-2" versions) as well as a Gitzo 5-series aluminum legset (don't remember the model number off the top of my head) with the 3-way head you've linked.

My 12x20 F&S goes on the Ries. Period. I would not trust the Gitzo head with it, though I like the Gitzo very much for cameras that are comfortably within its load spec. Comparison against the "-2" versions of the Ries would be even more lopsided in favor of the Ries if maximum load-bearing is the critical concern.

John Kasaian
3-Oct-2016, 20:16
My 12x20 like the Ries as well. I can't compare it to the Gitzo because I don't have to compare it to, but the Reis does the job.

Randy Moe
3-Oct-2016, 20:31
Oren. I can't buy both!







FWIW, I have a Ries A100/A250 set (not the "-2" versions) as well as a Gitzo 5-series aluminum legset (don't remember the model number off the top of my head) with the 3-way head you've linked.

My 12x20 F&S goes on the Ries. Period. I would not trust the Gitzo head with it, though I like the Gitzo very much for cameras that are comfortably within its load spec. Comparison against the "-2" versions of the Ries would be even more lopsided in favor of the Ries if maximum load-bearing is the critical concern.

Two23
3-Oct-2016, 20:44
I've been using a Gitzo 300 series (1325cf)for about ten or twelve years now. If something happened to it I'd immediately buy another one. The Gitzos are sort of like a really good pair of boots. You never notice them while you are using them, and that's a good think. I do have a Berlebach wooden tripod but don't use it often because it's heavy. When I do use it, the wind is usually blowing harder than 30 mph. Anyway, you just can't go wrong with the Gitzo. I use everything on it. Heaviest would be Nikon F100 with 500mm f4 (once upon a time) to current Gundlach Korona 5x7 with three pound brass lenses. If you are walking very far with the tripod, the Gitzo is in no-brainer territory. For the record, I am mostly an outdoor photographer, and photo in all kinds of weather. I especially love blizzards!


Kent in SD

Vaughn
3-Oct-2016, 20:46
My Ries has taken abuse that no metal or carbon fiber tripod would survive. Abuse that was required to get to and back from the places I wanted to go.

Bill Burk
3-Oct-2016, 20:48
Get the Ries, nobody will want to steal it

Vaughn
3-Oct-2016, 20:49
My Ries has taken abuse that no metal or carbon fiber tripod would survive. Abuse that was required to get to and back from the places I wanted to go. Like here (cross-country above Yosemite Valley)

Peter De Smidt
3-Oct-2016, 21:23
This will mostly be for work in the city, right? You'll be bringing everything in a cart? Or are you going to join Vaughn in the redwoods? Given the intended use, I expect both tripods to be very durable. I have a Gitzo from 1970 that's perfectly functional. The main differences are that one weighs half what the other one does and is much more compact, but with your use, does that matter? With the big cameras, a heavy tripod can be an advantage, as long as the whole kit doesn't get too heavy to manage. Personally, I'd only get that Gitzo if I intended on traveling with it, as it has so many leg locks. I'd lean towards a 3 section. Closed length for the 3-section is 27", and it'll be stronger than ones with more leg sections. The Ries is 40" closed.

Randy Moe
3-Oct-2016, 21:32
I should have joined Vaughn 50 years ago. :(

City work is most likely it...

Is there escape from Chicago?

Maybe not. Watched 'Gran Toreno' second time last night.

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1205489/

Alan Gales
3-Oct-2016, 22:14
I own both an A100 and J100 Ries tripod. Both are equipped with Ries double tilt heads. The heads are more like large platforms than heads and are extremely sturdy. They also work really well with the Ries tripods becoming a very solid extension of the tripod.

I also love the Ries leg locks. You can lock any leg in any position if you are on some crazy terrain like big rocks or steps or something. I always lock the legs for added security. A Ries is one sturdy tripod, especially with the legs locked.

I'm sure carbon fiber is lighter but that just makes it easier to steal in Chicago or St. Louis for that matter! :)

LabRat
3-Oct-2016, 22:27
Another plus for the wood is if you were a little nervous about something like leg locks, putting on an extra stabilizer arm, leg extensions, etc, you would have no trouble drilling a hole for a wood screw somewhere, or clamping something to it, or some other modification, etc... And maybe something cheaper like a surveyor's tripod you could hack??? (New CF will cost the most...)

Steve K

chris_4622
4-Oct-2016, 06:20
Randy,
I don't own either one but from what I know about you and where you are and what it's like photographing in the city I would choose the wooden one, unless you are going out on a bike like I used to do. It seems it would dampen vibrations that you are likely to encounter from the wind and possibly traffic, and set-up would be somewhat easier than dealing with all those sections of legs.

LabRat
4-Oct-2016, 06:29
Oh, and what is another + with wood is that if someone sees you shooting on a wood tripod, their first thought is that you are not a photog, but a surveyor, tradesman, or something else...

CF looks $$$!!!

Steve K

Oren Grad
4-Oct-2016, 07:29
Oren. I can't buy both!

Didn't mean that at all. Go for whichever Ries A-series set fits your budget.

Jac@stafford.net
4-Oct-2016, 07:30
With a wooden tripod if you are trapped in the winter you can burn it to keep warm. Same for Deardorffs.

Drew Wiley
4-Oct-2016, 08:33
Although the CF will be lighter to carry and certainly capable of holding the weight of the camera, the wooden Ries has the mass to hold the camera steadier, esp
in WIND, and will be a lot tougher over the long haul. It also has a bigger top platform, which I personally use to mount the camera directly to, for maximum stability, versus a tripod head. I do use both types of tripods, depending on circumstances. Although the ply construction of CF is quite strong in terms of support, if this material gets a hard scratch or indentation, it's basically over for that leg. I've seen it happen, even to Gitzos. I have broken a Ries leg, but that's cause it got dropped off a cliff, and even that leg they replaced for free! One helluva warranty.

John Kasaian
4-Oct-2016, 08:39
Although the CF will be lighter to carry and certainly capable of holding the weight of the camera, the wooden Ries has the mass to hold the camera steadier, esp
in WIND, and will be a lot tougher over the long haul. It also has a bigger top platform, which I personally use to mount the camera directly to, for maximum stability, versus a tripod head. I do use both types of tripods, depending on circumstances. Although the ply construction of CF is quite strong in terms of support, if this material gets a hard scratch or indentation, it's basically over for that leg. I've seen it happen, even to Gitzos. I have broken a Ries leg, but that's cause it got dropped off a cliff, and even that leg they replaced for free! One helluva warranty.
Speaking of Ries, I understand that the company recently changed hands it that true? Has there been any changes to their warranty/service?

Randy Moe
4-Oct-2016, 18:09
Speaking of Ries, I understand that the company recently changed hands it that true? Has there been any changes to their warranty/service?

Copied from Ries website just now.

http://www.riestripod.com/faqs/terms-and-conditions/

"5. Limited Warranty

Seller supplies as its sole warranty the following:

Tripods and Heads are warranted for life to the original purchaser

The warranty shall last for Life to the original purchaser.

The warranties provided for herein shall be governed by Sellerís warranty policies in effect on the date of shipment."

Leigh
4-Oct-2016, 19:44
Let's hear from Gitzo fans about http://www.gitzo.us/series-5-magnesium-low-profile-fluid-3way-head
Is it good enough, can it carry more than the 22lbs rating?
Good enough for what?

If it could carry 25 pounds, they'd rate it at 25 pounds.

Basic laws of economics and marketing here.

- Leigh

jp
4-Oct-2016, 20:03
It's not just about numbers and stats. If you can afford the Ries, even used, go for it.
It's highly adjustable, but at the same time simple.
Whatever ratings they suggest are highly conservative.
I have picked up used here both the A and J series. With the right head, the J can do 8x10 no problem, and the A series can handle anything.
I am using mine because they DON'T have twist lock legs. My other highly favored tripod did and they got seized up with damage from sand + salt water; a local problem that may not affect many other photographers.

Peter De Smidt
5-Oct-2016, 07:31
New Systemic Tripods: http://www.gitzo.com/news+%26+events/news/Gitzo+Introduces+the+New+Systematic+Tripod+Range/274899232

Randy Moe
5-Oct-2016, 07:48
New Systemic Tripods: http://www.gitzo.com/news+%26+events/news/Gitzo+Introduces+the+New+Systematic+Tripod+Range/274899232

Good to know Peter. Glad I hesitated. Thanks!

I am now waiting while I try what I have not really tried, but own.

Yesterday I ordered this https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/844424-REG/cinevate_inc_ciltas000019_150mm_half_ball_for.html

Which hopefully works with an old tripod I bought 35 years ago at a garage sale for $15 with matching dolly. The tripod is in storage, but just like the one on the right in this expired sale.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sachtler-tripode-set-Arriflex-ronford-PL-Mount-Red-Epic-150-Bowl-Wooden-Tripod-/301919526883?_ul=BO&nma=true&si=Bxr8jXknikEIvk3hNu7Qj3bJmjQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Drew Wiley
5-Oct-2016, 08:50
Static "dead weight" ratings mean next to nothing. Just marketing hype. What you need to be concerned with is vibration, plus the torque vectors inherent to either wide folding view camera platforms or long rail extensions atop the tripod.

Richard Wasserman
5-Oct-2016, 09:08
I have a Gitzo 1325 tripod that I use with 4x5 cameras. I think it's a great choice up to probably 5x7, but anything bigger and heavier I would definitely choose a wood tripod and a Ries head. I'm guessing your Schactler should be just dandy, Randy.

Kirk Gittings
5-Oct-2016, 10:01
My Ries has taken abuse that no metal or carbon fiber tripod would survive. Abuse that was required to get to and back from the places I wanted to go. Like here (cross-country above Yosemite Valley)

:) great picture Vaughn.

Peter De Smidt
5-Oct-2016, 10:18
I have a Gitzo 1325 tripod that I use with 4x5 cameras. I think it's a great choice up to probably 5x7, but anything bigger and heavier I would definitely choose a wood tripod and a Ries head. I'm guessing your Schactler should be just dandy, Randy.

Note that the 1325 was a series 3 Gitzo. Randy is considering a Series 5, which is bigger and significantly stronger. Gitzo recommended the 1325 for up to 4x5" cameras.

Drew Wiley
5-Oct-2016, 10:27
Gitzo's very first CF series, like I own, was 3-ply. Then to reduce weight a bit, they apparently went to be 2-ply. It can be load-strong, but is much more easily
damaged. My big Fiesol CF, which I sometimes use for 8x10, is also 2-ply, so I'm careful with it. With the Ries tripods, I'm almost oblivious to what I crash into.
And I am somebody that still routinely crawls through the brush, under fallen trees, and whacks poison oak etc off the trail. The Ries also makes a nice bat for slamming obnoxious cell phones out of the park. Then if that doesn't convince them, the bayonet charge with those spike feet does the trick.

tgtaylor
5-Oct-2016, 11:00
For hiking I use a Gitz0 G1348 CF tripod (4.8 lbs, extends to 65 or so inches without a center column) with the the Pentax 67II and LF up to and including the Toyo 810 MII with no stability issues. I bought it new for $600.00.

Thomas

Grumium
5-Oct-2016, 11:20
I use a Gitzo Systematic GT3532S with 75mm levelling base (or the center column) and a Linhof Micro 3D from 6x7 all the way up to 7x17. Although it isn't the strongest tripod available from Gitzo, it holds all the cameras very well. The thing that worries me about Gitzo is the availability/lead time of spare parts and its non corrossion resistance.

I've taken a look at the latest Systematic tripods at Photokina and wasn't overly impressed. Sure, their build quality is top notch and their latest carbon lay-up seems to produce an even stiffer behavior. The downside is that you have to pay extra to get the spike feet (that were part of the deal before) and I am not a big fan of the spring-loaded leg-angle locks.

I used wooden tripods from Berlebach (similar to Ries) in different sizes before, but sold them due to their weight. In terms of handling, looks and performance, I'd immediately go back.

I was diagnosed with chronic GAS ... I am toying with the idea of selling everything and getting a SACHTLER ENG 2 CF (http://www.sachtler.com/products/tripods/eng-2-cf/) (HD (http://www.sachtler.com/products/tripods/eng-2-cf-hd/)?) t/w a 100m leveling base (https://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=222&sprache=english) and a sturdy clamp (http://www.novoflex.com/en/products/camera-support-systems/quick-release-systems/qmount/). If I were you, I'd also take a look at the Sachtler tripods. They are much more rigid (also torsion stiffness) than the Gitzos, much lighter than Ries tripods and play in a similar league money-wise.

Vaughn
5-Oct-2016, 11:51
:) great picture Vaughn.

Thanks. Actually on this hike, I had my three boys with me -- Alex carried the tripod up from the Valley floor while I carried to camera pack. I however carried both down, since I could use the pod to take some of the strain off my knees. The boys scratched their heads a bit because I actually did not end up taking any 8x10 images up there.

Drew Wiley
5-Oct-2016, 12:11
Oh I know that routine. I didn't want to leave my 6x7 system in the truck, so my nephew offered to carry it, while I packed the Sinar system. We did a couple weeks of canyon country, total solitude, but obviously had to add a lot of water weight too, between springs. Around 85 lbs apiece. He wasn't particularly amused when I didn't take a single 6x7 shot the whole time. Should have left it home.

Robert Opheim
12-Oct-2016, 21:39
I use a Gitzo 4 series legs with a PL5 head (5 series) with my Calumet C1 8x10 camera. I have taken a number of long exposures with this combination and it seems to work well. I do also have a old cine tripod - a Professional Junior - from the 1920's or 1930's that weighs even more - but works great also for the 8x10.

Armin Seeholzer
13-Oct-2016, 15:06
My Carbon Sirui which is for 18 kg stated from Sirui holds also the 82 kg of the salesman from profot he showed it to me, he was hanging on that tripod, so it should be fine for almost every camera!
And it works better then my much more expensive Gitzo Carbon!

Cheers Armin

Leszek Vogt
13-Oct-2016, 16:36
Yeah Randy, we are all over the map on this. Some folk prefer Berlebach or Wolf to Ries....and the same goes for CF tripods.
If I had a sherpa (24/7), I probably would go with Sachtler > plenty stability there...whether you use LF or anything with 600mm. I did use Gitzo back in the 80's (alum) and if I set anything up now it's CF.

Anyway, my wallet thanks me and my back thanks me by not going with either Ries and Gitzo.

Les

John Layton
14-Oct-2016, 05:53
Back in the day...Cole Weston told me that he'd been standing in the surf with his Green Monster mounted Ries...when a huge wave knocked all off of their collective feet - and that he'd then simply hosed everything off with fresh water and continued shooting!

...but I prefer my Gitzo 1325 Mk-2 with 1370 magnesium head - with which I've had my own share of "surf incidents," and which, despite its being rated for "up to 4x5/5x7," I continue to also put into occasional use with my 11x14. Plus, more and more as the years pass, I continue to appreciate the (relative) light weight of the Gitzo.

Jim Noel
14-Oct-2016, 14:08
I have two Gitzos and One Ries and two Otto's which is also wood. The Gitzos I keep primarily to lend to students who come to a field trip with flimsy tripods.
I would never put my 7x17, or 8x10 Calumet on the clumsy Gitzo's - only wooden tripods for me. They are warmer in winter,and cooler in summer, stronger per pound and dampen vibrations quickly.

Flynn99
1-Nov-2016, 21:47
After few years I am adding my experience with Berlebach and Ries. Now the technology change every month very fast and currently you can use Phase One XF camera body to measure the vibrations with the new Seismic sensor. To get perfectly steady and sharp picture on 100MPX digital back is also not easy. I bought Berlebach UNI 26C and my friend bought both Berlebach 16C and Ries A100. I also use 4x5" Monorail Cambo which is 6Kg pretty heavy so Wooden tripod which can hold 30Kg is very useful.
As of November 2016 the situation with Berlebach and Ries is like this.
We ordered Berlebach directly from Germany and both tripods were shipped within hours after the payment. Came to Vancouver, Canada on time - cannot be happier, perfect packaging, tripods and heads are pristine condition, German precision...
My friend ordered Ries A100 Jatoba wood version as well and thought because we live 300km form the factory in Washington state it will arrive fast. Hoping to be faster than Berlebach from Germany. For Ries it took more than too months and Ries tripod wasn't even shipped yet! So my friend call the company couple times and now they said it is ready but don't have anything to ship the tripod in :). So he drive 300plus km from Vancouver to pick it up right to the Ries official location. They only have his tripod there and one old as a demo and that's it. You couldn't buy anything else not even spare parts. They only have one other person hanging around. So no production, no employees no products available and order for the A100 tripod with special wood took 2 months. Guy ar Ries said they produce 2-3 thousand tripods a year :). Wow where are those people who would buy that many these days?

After checking the tripod and its stability we find-out is almost junk, no stability at all - rubber ends on the feet are moving with slighter stress on the tripod and many imperfections and chips in the wood itself. Having it side by side with Berlebach which is almost perfect is big disappointment with Ries. New bronze knobs which cost extra $100 are sharp and cut the skin. As a collectible item this Ries is ok, still looks nice from distance. But I wouldn't use it for 8x10inch cameras. So I think once great company which use to make very reasonable product went down the hill to the point, it looks like its outsourcing manufacturing somewhere else (maybe China or Thailand?) and to deal with them is a nightmare for the customer.

Berlebach might be doing the opposite change, from slightly lower quality product they improved to high end and definitely the best wooden tripod manufacturer in 2016 and their tripods are miles ahead of Ries in every aspect. From principle I would never deal with company which is holding 2 thousand dollars without delivering the product or proper communication for 2 months.
If they did this on eBay couple times they would be forced to close their store very soon.
It is very sad that this is the trend, many emulsions and 8x10 film are completely discontinued and quality of some products like Ries is going downhill. Might be good idea to buy at least 15 year old Ries tripod which was probably still made with high standard and might be better than Berlebach produces in that time.

David Lindquist
2-Nov-2016, 09:37
This report on Ries doesn't sound very good at all. I'm sorry to hear it.
David

Peter De Smidt
2-Nov-2016, 09:45
The report is a useful data point. On the other hand, the other comments about Ries that I've read here from users have been very positive. I don't own one, but I have seen a couple. The ones I saw looked very nice.

Drew Wiley
2-Nov-2016, 10:52
I don't get it, Flynn. There are certain weather conditions when Ries has trouble finishing their wooden components. But in the many years I've dealt with them
the customer service has been fantastic, shipments super fast, and the tripods themselves superbly functional. I dealt with them less than a year ago, same people, same excellently finished components. I routinely shoot an 8x10 on a Ries. But I can't comment on rumors of ownership/mgt change more recently.

Alan Gales
2-Nov-2016, 11:18
I very recently dealt with Ries over the phone. My A100 lost a pin for one of the legs and I ordered a new one. My J100 tripod's double tilt head is the older version with the original style knurled chrome wheel that locks the landscape to portrait orientation. I didn't like the wheel because if I really cranked it down it would bite into my fingers. I ordered a replacement brass knob. The friendly lady who helped me had to check to make sure the knob would work. Ries didn't charge me for the pin and both knob and pin were shipped right away. The knob matched my other brass knobs in color and style and worked great. I was very happy with the service I received.

Like Drew, I shoot an 8x10 on Ries tripods. Unlike Drew, I use double tilt heads on both my A100 and J100. Drew likes to work without his head. ;) I love my Ries tripods but mine are a few years old. I don't know what the new ones are like.

AuditorOne
2-Nov-2016, 11:33
My Berlebach is relatively new to me so I can't comment on it too much. So far I have used it with my Deardorff V8 a couple of times and I have had no problems. It is easy to set up and is very stable. Of course it doesn't collapse down as short as the Gitzo. It is also heavy but I am not sure it is really all that much heavier than my Gitzo. Obviously it is a beautiful tripod but I don't hold that against it.

I also own the Gitzo Systematic GT3541XLS and it is a monster. It is made of six layers of carbon fiber and if fully extended on the 4 section legs on level ground, the camera is above my head. Collapsed it is 29 inches.

It has no center column but does not need one. I also have the leveling base which is invaluable for large format.

It weighs a tad over 5 pounds with the leveling base and it stands very solid even in a good breeze. If there is any vibration I have never seen it in my photographs. It is advertised as being able to handle 25 kg but I suspect it is good for more than this. It has been used for everything from a Pentax 645Nii through a Green Monster to an 11x14 Empire State over the years and it has never quivered once.

This one has the twist locks on the leg sections and, knowing they are supposed to become a problem, I have kept them cleaned as well as possible over the years. They continue to work just fine so I don't know if the rumors are BS, or if I am fortunate. I bought it specifically for mountain hiking.

If you do much photography close to the ground the legs will angle out almost level putting the camera almost at ground level.

I paid quite a bit for this setup about six years ago but I have never once regretted it. Well...OK, once or twice when I was hiking...but never seriously.

If you can keep it from being stolen this tripod will do everything you need.

Bob Salomon
2-Nov-2016, 11:57
My Berlebach is relatively new to me so I can't comment on it too much. So far I have used it with my Deardorff V8 a couple of times and I have had no problems. It is easy to set up and is very stable. Of course it doesn't collapse down as short as the Gitzo. It is also heavy but I am not sure it is really all that much heavier than my Gitzo. Obviously it is a beautiful tripod but I don't hold that against it.

I also own the Gitzo Systematic GT3541XLS and it is a monster. It is made of six layers of carbon fiber and if fully extended on the 4 section legs on level ground, the camera is above my head. Collapsed it is 29 inches.

It has no center column but does not need one. I also have the leveling base which is invaluable for large format.

It weighs a tad over 5 pounds with the leveling base and it stands very solid even in a good breeze. If there is any vibration I have never seen it in my photographs. It is advertised as being able to handle 25 kg but I suspect it is good for more than this. It has been used for everything from a Pentax 645Nii through a Green Monster to an 11x14 Empire State over the years and it has never quivered once.

This one has the twist locks on the leg sections and, knowing they are supposed to become a problem, I have kept them cleaned as well as possible over the years. They continue to work just fine so I don't know if the rumors are BS, or if I am fortunate. I bought it specifically for mountain hiking.

If you do much photography close to the ground the legs will angle out almost level putting the camera almost at ground level.

I paid quite a bit for this setup about six years ago but I have never once regretted it. Well...OK, once or twice when I was hiking...but never seriously.

If you can keep it from being stolen this tripod will do everything you need.

Your reply would be much better if you specified what type of Berlebach you have, Report series or Uni series and the model number. You did this with your Gitzo but not with the Berlebach.

Drew Wiley
2-Nov-2016, 12:27
Yes, I must confess that I am the Headless Horseman, but not really, because I don't shoot a Horseman camera. Maybe because it fell off too, just like my head.
But I do frequently slap a Gitzo pan/tilt head onto my Ries tripods for quickie MF camera use. With very long lenses or anything LF, I distinctly prefer to remain
headless. I just leave my detached head permanently attached to the groundglass, so my eyes remain there perpetually too. The nice thing about that is that I don't need a reflex finder, since I glued my head in place upside-down.

Jac@stafford.net
2-Nov-2016, 12:46
Your reply would be much better if you specified what type of Berlebach you have [...]

My two bits worth on Berlebach from a post some time ago. A 20 year-old Reporter series used for up to light 4x5, lots of weathering, and after a little wood wax, working like new again. Ugly, but beautiful in a way.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=153614&d=1470503291

Alan Gales
2-Nov-2016, 13:03
My two bits worth on Berlebach from a post some time ago. A 20 year-old Reporter series used for up to light 4x5, lots of weathering, and after a little wood wax, working like new again. Ugly, but beautiful in a way.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=153614&d=1470503291

Here you go Jac!

https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/one-step-stain-and-finishes/minwax-polyshades

Jac@stafford.net
2-Nov-2016, 13:10
Here you go Jac!

https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/one-step-stain-and-finishes/minwax-polyshades

That is a generous tip, Alan. I settled on a stick of wood-wax that I can keep in the truck. Thanks anyway.
--
Jac kinda stuck in the mud :)

Drew Wiley
3-Nov-2016, 15:59
Sorry Alan, but a polyurethane like Minwax is a very bad idea outdoors. It embrittles then peels. And Polyshades per se is just a tinted version that looks like shoe polish. There are certain true marine coatings which might work. But I prefer penetrating marine oils. With Ries tripods, I just let em go. The maple has no issues,
and eventually just end up looking like the veteran gear it is. I've even faux discolored my maple mounting blocks for telephoto lenses to match the authentic
battle scars of my Ries. What the heck - I've got some scars myself.

Alan Gales
3-Nov-2016, 17:09
Sorry Alan, but a polyurethane like Minwax is a very bad idea outdoors. It embrittles then peels. And Polyshades per se is just a tinted version that looks like shoe polish. There are certain true marine coatings which might work. But I prefer penetrating marine oils. With Ries tripods, I just let em go. The maple has no issues,
and eventually just end up looking like the veteran gear it is. I've even faux discolored my maple mounting blocks for telephoto lenses to match the authentic
battle scars of my Ries. What the heck - I've got some scars myself.

I figured the Minwax would make it pretty and then Jac could put the wax he uses on it to protect it. After reading your post I did some research and I found that you are correct, Drew. The polyurethene will eventually still embrittle and peel when exposed to the elements.

My mistake. Thanks for the correction. I learned something.

Leszek Vogt
3-Nov-2016, 20:13
Randy, find a garage tinkerer and have the tripod (wood type) constructed....and pocket good portion of the $1500 that you would dump on Ries + head. It's not rocket science. No offense to manuf that make good wooden tripods.


If wood is your fixation, old Miller tripod (with cine bowl) or similar, would likely support a pony....and there would be no need to throw mega dollars into this.....well, unless you don't mind.


Les

AuditorOne
11-Nov-2016, 16:58
Your reply would be much better if you specified what type of Berlebach you have, Report series or Uni series and the model number. You did this with your Gitzo but not with the Berlebach.

Sorry about that Bob. I own the Report 843. It does seem to be a very nice tripod, but I have not yet had the opportunity to really put it through the paces as I haven't owned it that long.

Since I do a lot of photography in the mountains during the winter I suspect I'll be able to give a better performance report by the end of this winter.

Will Whitaker
13-Nov-2016, 10:32
Randy,

I had a Gitzo Series 5 Low-Profile head and found it to be a nice head for 8x10 and smaller. With my 14x17 or 12x20 on it, the head actually flexed under the load. Not good, so I sold it. My foundation for those ULF cameras I mentioned is an early [old] Ries A with the old Photoplane A head. I'm very happy with it, so my vote (predictably) is for the Ries. Plus, they have excellent customer service.

But I still do not understand the difference between the A-100 and the A-100-2 legs.

See also: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?44593-Ries-A-100-2

Drew Wiley
14-Nov-2016, 09:49
Not all wooden tripods do well in cold and wet conditions. Some swell shut or actually freeze shut. Ries seems to have figured this out, and they do better than most. With wood you also get a lot of stable mass or weight that is nice to have as support. One thing I do recommend for snow is a set of little snow baskets for the feet. These can simply be adapted from ski pole baskets or even kitchen drain baskets. Carbon fiber has the advantage of much lighter weight hiking, but if you go that route, I'd recommend a mesh bag that can hang from a hook below the center which you can add rocks to. About the worst place to be in the mountains is
having your tripod set up on spongy moss. But I've done that many, many times. You just hold your breath, try not to move at all, and press that cable very very carefully.

locutus
14-Nov-2016, 10:34
FWIW, I live in Finland and have never had problems with my Berlebach freezing/swelling/whatever and the winters and marshy swamplands here are definitely not kind to tripods.

Jac@stafford.net
14-Nov-2016, 10:42
FWIW, I live in Finland and have never had problems with my Berlebach freezing/swelling/whatever and the winters and marshy swamplands here are definitely not kind to tripods.

Same here in Minnesota. I even kept my Burlebach on the roof rack of my truck in all weather. After over twenty years all I had to do to make the legs work perfectly was apply wood wax into the leg channels. Below is a closeup of a tripod leg before the wax.

Note the wood grain placements. Very smart work!

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=153614&d=1470503291

Drew Wiley
15-Nov-2016, 16:39
That piece of wood does look like a veteran. I would have mistaken it for a scarecrow stick! Or maybe a rake handle long overdo for replacement. My tripod probably thinks the same thing of me.

Ken Sinclair
17-Nov-2016, 10:45
I 'invested' in a wooden tripod from "Zone IV" those many years ago... after becoming really dissatisfied with the somewhat over-priced tubular metal metal... especially in the cold winter months. While my wooden tripod is somewhat awkward at times.... heavy to humph around when one has wandered a bit too far from one's preferred transportation, the effort is well worth the effort and occasional discomfort.

It is in regular use as a support for either my much experienced 8x10" Burke and James "Woodie".... or my ageing Linhof monorail 4x5. I do have (and use) a metal Benbo for my smaller (and more readily portable cameras), but I am more than convinced that I have benefited from the 'mass' and the stability of my much-experienced wooden tripod.

My purchasing decision was based on my having NEVER seen theodolites (and such other instruments that require both stability and vibration 'damping'), mounted on readily erected and transportable support devices other than the 'old' standard, the wooden tripod.

Ken

Bob Salomon
17-Nov-2016, 12:42
I 'invested' in a wooden tripod from "Zone IV" those many years ago... after becoming really dissatisfied with the somewhat over-priced tubular metal metal... especially in the cold winter months. While my wooden tripod is somewhat awkward at times.... heavy to humph around when one has wandered a bit too far from one's preferred transportation, the effort is well worth the effort and occasional discomfort.

It is in regular use as a support for either my much experienced 8x10" Burke and James "Woodie".... or my ageing Linhof monorail 4x5. I do have (and use) a metal Benbo for my smaller (and more readily portable cameras), but I am more than convinced that I have benefited from the 'mass' and the stability of my much-experienced wooden tripod.

My purchasing decision was based on my having NEVER seen theodolites (and such other instruments that require both stability and vibration 'damping'), mounted on readily erected and transportable support devices other than the 'old' standard, the wooden tripod.

Ken
Many Theodolites are also mounted on fiberglass or carbon fiber and, at one show, a company was showing bamboo tripods for surveying.

Jac@stafford.net
17-Nov-2016, 13:18
I 'invested' in a wooden tripod from "Zone IV" those many years ago [...]
purchasing decision was based on my having NEVER seen theodolites (and such other instruments that require both

At least one Zone VI tripod was a cheaply modified surveyors tripod. I changed my own to use a thick, handmade aluminum plate. It can support a lot of weight. Here is a picture (http://www.digoliardi.net/skc/skc1.jpg) (incidental to the subject which was the sky camera) before further modification.

Drew Wiley
17-Nov-2016, 13:44
Bingo. Both styles of Zone VI tripod were, first of all, lousy survey tripods to begin with; and second, they were the kind of thing where the legs swelled shut wet, or literally froze together. I had one laying around useless until I gave it to a co-worker for his casual telescope. Fred Picker had some home run products, but also some inevitable strike-outs. If you get a survey tripod get a clad one (fiberglass skin over hardwood), and make sure it is domestically made. The usual suspect imports might look very similar, but the locks fail, the legs slip, etc. Expect to pay $150 to $200 new - substantially less than a good photo tripod, but substantially more than a junk version.

AuditorOne
23-Nov-2016, 13:43
Wood swells in moisture. This will be pretty much a fact anywhere you go and will have an effect on any wooden tripod. The extent of that effect will depend to a certain extent on how well the manufacturer has designed the tripod to account for and minimize swelling on usability, as well as the regular maintenance provided by the user. Think of it as kind of a wooden boat. Like the boat, your tripod will fail to stay afloat unless you regularly clean it, sand it, revarnish it and maintain the hardware. If you don't want to do this, don't buy a wooden tripod.

A well maintained wooden tripod is a thing of beauty and works wonderfully. If the varnish is peeling and the hardware is corroded, don't expect much. It will work as well as that 4 year old surveyor tripod that has been tossed into the back of the pickup for the past four years and pretty much been ignored until it was needed to hold the transit.

There is a reason that fiberglass boats outsell wooden boats so much. Most people aren't interested in maintaining wooden tools or boats.

Jac@stafford.net
23-Nov-2016, 14:55
High end wooden boats include a layer of cotton batting to keep the wood slats moistened so they swell tightly tighter.

AuditorOne
27-Nov-2016, 17:28
That is interesting Jac. I did not know that.

However, that probably is not the best practice for manufacturing tripods. :D

Jim Fitzgerald
27-Nov-2016, 22:51
I don't like almost every tripod I have except the first one I bought and it's only good for DSLR/35mm short lenses. Bought it 20 years ago. It's a keeper.

May we have arguments for and against 2 tripods. I know my usage and I will need strength of these big boys.

No other tripods need apply.

http://www.riestripod.com/product/the-a100-2-tripod-2/


http://www.gitzo.us/systematic-series-5-carbon-tripod-super-compact-6-section-gt5562lts

They are vastly different and each has advantages and disadvantages for me.

The tripod head for either could the same, as I really http://www.riestripod.com/product/the-a250-2-head/

Let's hear from Gitzo fans about http://www.gitzo.us/series-5-magnesium-low-profile-fluid-3way-head Is it good enough, can it carry more than the 22lbs rating?


What say ye?

Randy, I've used this head for my 14x17's.... yes I have two of them and my heaviest is 32lbs. No problem. What ever you do get a Kessler Crane qwik release for it. Made my life easy.

Randy Moe
27-Nov-2016, 22:58
Randy, I've used this head for my 14x17's.... yes I have two of them and my heaviest is 32lbs. No problem. What ever you do get a Kessler Crane qwik release for it. Made my life easy.

Jim, do you mean the Gitzo head? I found a good used one and like it. I have been looking at the Kessler Crane QR. Is it heavy duty enough for your 14x17?

They are on sale until tomorrow night.

neil poulsen
27-Nov-2016, 23:00
How cool. It comes with a matching stool.


Good to know Peter. Glad I hesitated. Thanks! . . .

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sachtler-tripode-set-Arriflex-ronford-PL-Mount-Red-Epic-150-Bowl-Wooden-Tripod-/301919526883?_ul=BO&nma=true&si=Bxr8jXknikEIvk3hNu7Qj3bJmjQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Drew Wiley
28-Nov-2016, 12:17
Ries uses maple, and shapes the legs in a manner that resists lockup due to moisture. I had a long conversation with them once about sealants. In recent years
they've simply used spray water-based polyurethanes for cosmetic purposes, due to not having the right kind of temperature control, combined with air extraction, necessary for more serious options, if their zoning even allows such chemicals. Quick drying time is their priority. But that kind of finish wears off quickly. The tripod then goes through its zitty adolescence, then starts accumulating battle scars like a real man. You either live with that, or take the trouble to strip off all the remaining finish and learn to wipe the maple down frequently with something like marine teak oil. Seems to make no difference functionally. But Jac, your definition of a high-end boat sure doesn't sound like the same definition as the marinas around here. They keep water out by about seven layers of marine varnish at seventy dollars a quart! - and refresh it every six months. At least that how the poor people, the millionaires, do it. For the rest, there's
carbon fiber. And then there's people like me, who get invited on a fishing day out on the bay, and get assigned to the water-bailing bucket!

Jim Fitzgerald
28-Nov-2016, 13:35
Jim, do you mean the Gitzo head? I found a good used one and like it. I have been looking at the Kessler Crane QR. Is it heavy duty enough for your 14x17?

They are on sale until tomorrow night.

Randy, yes the 1570-M head with the Kessler crane Qwik release system. Holds the camera and is easy to mount and dismount. My 14x17- 20x24 field camera is about 30lbs. The QR is more than adequate.

Randy Moe
28-Nov-2016, 13:46
Randy, yes the 1570-M head with the Kessler crane Qwik release system. Holds the camera and is easy to mount and dismount. My 14x17- 20x24 field camera is about 30lbs. The QR is more than adequate.

Great, I just ordered the Kessler Crane QR to use with 1570-M head. 15% off today.

My set-up is only 20 lbs.

When it all get's here, I'll post a pic of my ULF camera, tripod and head setup.

Thanks!

mpirie
29-Nov-2016, 00:33
Does anyone have practical experience of how wooden tripod legs behave after immersion in fresh or sea water?

I have a Berlebach Reporter which i love, but am worried that dipping the legs into water could ruin a perfectly good tripod.

Mike

locutus
29-Nov-2016, 02:01
I use a Berlebach report and i have regularly submerged it halfway down into Finnish swamp 'water' and the Baltic sea, no problems.

I give it a rinse in the shower and whipe down after getting home, its fine.

Jac@stafford.net
29-Nov-2016, 06:52
Does anyone have practical experience of how wooden tripod legs behave after immersion in fresh or sea water?

I second locutus' experience. See this post (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?133809-Which-is-better-for-very-heavy-load-wood-or-CF-and-why-Read-only-2-are-considered&p=1361993&viewfull=1#post1361993).

Will Whitaker
29-Nov-2016, 08:41
Randy, There is not an answer to your question. Personal preference plays as much a part in the selection decision as do technical specifications. Go with your heart and choose one. If it doesn't work for you, you then know what you need to do. Good luck!

Drew Wiley
29-Nov-2016, 09:26
I get both my Ries tripod legs into swampy muck, stream water, and ocean surf all the time. No problem at all. All the hardware is nonferrous, and I simply rinse
off the tripod with a hose at the end of each outing. I do this routinely, even if only the spikes were in dirt. Salt spray plays havoc on all kinds of things, especially
leather.

Ries Tripod
10-Dec-2016, 19:54
Well, I do not want to seem sales-ish or anything but...

1. Ries has a lifetime warranty from a company that has had lifetime warranties since 1930.
2. 100% made by Ries in Bremerton Washington, USA.
3. Green Manufactured and Sustainable Sourced.
4. The Gitzo Systematic Series 5 Carbon Tripod is not even close competitor to the weight class and performance against the A100-2. Gitzo claims a "Safety Payload" of 40 KG. Ries does not recognize "safety payload" as a safety standard. The Ries Company uses the industry standard of "Working Load Limit" to calculate the "Safe Working Load Limit"

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_load_limit

Ries bases this on the weight and the fulcrum while in motion. Like movie cameras. Our company was created by the very cameramen of the early movie industry.

5. Hardwoods are more durable than the brittle carbon fiber, especially in the cold.
6. All Weather in all conditions.

Lastly, Ries just looks sexy.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Spencer

Randy Moe
10-Dec-2016, 20:21
Please, be a salesperson! No shame in that, especially if you are selling your own product. I respect that far more than a carpetbagger.

I already have a Ries Model C, bought used off this forum. A fine tripod for my smaller rigs. Unknown age, yet like new.

My eyes are always bigger than my wallet, so I will wait a bit for your larger models. I want A-100 and A250-2 Head. Perhaps the head first as it is usable with my old movie 150mm bowl Sachtler tripod with wood legs.

Having moved into 11x14 field camera, I found a Kessler Crane QR a great addition to my current head. Thanks to this thread and Jim Fitzgerald.

I promised photos, maybe tomorrow if it keeps on snowing. It may, 'Silent Snow, Secret Snow'. A favorite.

David Lobato
11-Dec-2016, 18:27
I got a used Reis tripod and head two years ago. My first thought upon seeing it was, why didn't I get one many years earlier? It and my large format cameras will no doubt outlast me, even if I was much younger.