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ryanmills
31-Jul-2016, 12:44
Just a quick guide of sorts for anyone coming into 8x10 who travels. I will update how it all worked out after my trip.

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I fly to shoot 5-6 times a year on average. With 4x5 I could fit at least 700 sheets of 4x5 and 100 rolls of 120 in my carry on. Switching to 8x10 this past year has created a few logistical issues with size and weight. I'm based in the US and my trips inside the US i have been drop shipping film to myself. With Europe this year I looked at a few options. My needs ended up being about 30 boxes of tri-x 8x10. Something to note, 8x10 tri-x is a special order film now. Its only carried in bulk by a few vendors. In the states I only found one company (B&H) that kept a stock for that size order thats not months in advance. For me to dropship the film to my apartment in Brussels Belgium was $3,300 (extra ~$900). I'm not rich, it takes everything I have to pull these trips off. The extra $900 was not really an easy option. Plus there was nothing I could do if there was an issue in shipping, lost package, late, etc. Another issue I did not anticipate, I always order my film a month before I fly. While its been well in-stock all year the week I ordered B&H only had 22 boxes in stock. They quoted 3-7 days but after checking with them a week later it was really 3-4 weeks. Well past my flight. Freestyle only keeps around 10 boxes in stock at a time but lucky for me they had enough, if i run out I will just look at picking some up in Brussels. All of this was the same reason I did not go with option 2. I did not look to buy film while in Europe, no one I found had enough on hand plus I would have to deal with potential shipping and stock issues. Option 3 buy and ship it myself however sorting out the customs, VAT, etc is just beyond me and there is no way to know excatly how long it would sit in customs. My print shipments take a week+ and they are not taxed.

Option 4 was finding a way to bring it with me on the plane. Obviously the sheer volume of the boxes was a no-go. I travel with a Lowepro Vertex (biggest one), larger laptop bag with space for two 17" laptops, huge suitcase and a pelican flight case. I wanted to avoid opening the paper wrappers for a few reasons but it did not work out. After a lot of searching I found no one makes boxes you can buy and its a lot of wasted space to keep them in the wrappers. I looked at buying the older larger 50 sheet tri-close boxes and found none. I did find and buy some 25 sheet boxes but ironcily they were excatly the same size as a 10 sheet box and useless. Forum members mentioned that Freestyle sells blackout bags and mentioned repacking the film. The "8x10" version blackout bags were much larger than I expected however they ended up working perfect (picture for scale below). I found I could breakdown and fit 50 sheets in a 10 sheet box keeping 1 set of cardboard ends inside a blackout bag . The fit is pefect, the plastic keeps the film tight (no sliding around). To avoid getting anything on the film I worse nitrile gloves while I repacked it. The resulting 5 boxes fit perfectly in the laptop bag. I break up the 100 rolls of 120 into 3 bags, 2 on top of the 8x10 boxes on each side of the laptop case and the last inside the lowepro backpack that also has a pentax 67ii, 5d mkii, rodenstock 240mm S on a lenboard and a spare shutter. Still leaves me a little room for snacks, cords, etc. It's worth noting I only have 260 sheets but its around ~20 pounds. With laptops, cameras, etc im hauling around 60-70 pounds on the plane. Towards the end of a 20+ hour flight it feels like 120 pounds.

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Something to note. Factory sealed boxes according to TSA guidelines are to be hand checked and are not required to be opened. This comes straight from their handbook, I keep a copy of the page in my carry on but I have never had to use it. Asking has never given me trouble. Never had trouble with sealed 4x5 boxes. With 8x10 boxes being taped and larger I have no idea what's going to happen with TSA in the states or Europe. I have no doubt I will have to get it xrayed at some point but still hoping I can avoid a few scans. I can tell you when I hold out 100 rolls of 120 their exasperated look lets me know im not making and friends. Bonus tip, when returning avoid Atlanta for customs at all costs. I have returned thru LAX, Seattle and St Paul. All easy with no issues. I have been thru atlanta twice, the lines are such a joke that TSA is overwhelmed and wont do anything for you. It has taken an adverage of 4 hours for customs both times. I will update after I get back on any issues I ran into.

Bob Salomon
31-Jul-2016, 12:55
What has TSA got to do with slow arrivals in Atlanta? TSA cleared you before you departed from Europe. Your gripe should be with Customs and Immagration. And getting the Global Pass added to your passport will eliminate most of that wait as all you do is fill out your Customs Declaration on the plane and then get into the automated kiosk line for Immagration.

ryanmills
31-Jul-2016, 14:17
What has TSA got to do with slow arrivals in Atlanta? TSA cleared you before you departed from Europe. Your gripe should be with Customs and Immagration. And getting the Global Pass added to your passport will eliminate most of that wait as all you do is fill out your Customs Declaration on the plane and then get into the automated kiosk line for Immagration.

That was just a personal comment, i was not really looking to debate it. However I'm not sure if you have flown international recently but thats not quite how it works. You have to go thru customs with your bags arriving back in the states both carry on and checked then recheck your bags. Those checkpoints are run by TSA and horridly backed up in Atlanta. Global pass would be nice but only gets you past one part of the process, at least in atlanta when I was there. They quite literally had a single checkpoint for 100's of people. They were not even checking bags you just had to go thru it with your passport. The whole thing was a joke. Every other airport i just walk thru with almost zero lines at any of the checkpoints. Seattle TSA made me scan my film last year but there were no lines. I dont live near anywhere that does the interviews for Global pass, hopefully i will end up in a city with an office sometime to get it. It does let you skip TSA for domstic flights and would be great for me.

If anyone here has global pass and fly's with film international I would love to hear what it changed for them.

Ari
31-Jul-2016, 14:51
You can ship it to yourself, or a friend, in Europe via FedEx or DHL.
Fill out your own Customs declaration and attach a pro forma invoice to the outside of the package. Declare a value of $0.00.
No Customs delay and no charges to pay.

If you go to Europe regularly, you might want to consider keeping another 8x10 kit (camera and set of film holders) in Brussels.

Bob Salomon
31-Jul-2016, 15:00
That was just a personal comment, i was not really looking to debate it. However I'm not sure if you have flown international recently but thats not quite how it works. You have to go thru customs with your bags arriving back in the states both carry on and checked then recheck your bags. Those checkpoints are run by TSA and horridly backed up in Atlanta. Global pass would be nice but only gets you past one part of the process, at least in atlanta when I was there. They quite literally had a single checkpoint for 100's of people. They were not even checking bags you just had to go thru it with your passport. The whole thing was a joke. Every other airport i just walk thru with almost zero lines at any of the checkpoints. Seattle TSA made me scan my film last year but there were no lines. I dont live near anywhere that does the interviews for Global pass, hopefully i will end up in a city with an office sometime to get it. It does let you skip TSA for domstic flights and would be great for me.

If anyone here has global pass and fly's with film international I would love to hear what it changed for them.

Basically any international airport in the USA has a Customs/Immagration office that you go to once you have sent in your application, that can be downloaded on line, fill it out and send it in. The last time I used it was 2014 but I strongly doubt that it has changed very much, other then more people possibly applying. If I remember correctly the fee was $100.00 and it was for the life of my last passport. As I have no current plans for international travel now that I have retired I have not applied to have it stamped on my current passport. You should just put Global Pass into Google, go to their web site and read how it works and what it costs.

The only time, since Global was introduced, that I was not able to use it was on one trip back from the EU when my wife was with me. Since she did not have a Global Pass I, under penalty of severe spousal discontent, I had to go through the regular lines with her.

ryanmills
31-Jul-2016, 15:51
Basically any international airport in the USA has a Customs/Immagration office that you go to once you have sent in your application, that can be downloaded on line, fill it out and send it in. The last time I used it was 2014 but I strongly doubt that it has changed very much, other then more people possibly applying. If I remember correctly the fee was $100.00 and it was for the life of my last passport. As I have no current plans for international travel now that I have retired I have not applied to have it stamped on my current passport. You should just put Global Pass into Google, go to their web site and read how it works and what it costs.

The only time, since Global was introduced, that I was not able to use it was on one trip back from the EU when my wife was with me. Since she did not have a Global Pass I, under penalty of severe spousal discontent, I had to go through the regular lines with her.

I have and its not that simple, at least not anymore. You have to fill out the app online, takes X number of days to approve then you have to set a date for the interview within 30 days or do it over. I looked at locations in washington, most had a 2 month plus wait time and none where I live even thou we have an international airport. Its also worth noting that having a global entry card is just for customs not TSA, you have too apply for TSA precheck. Thou if you have a known flyer number I have heard you can get auto selected for it most of the time automaticly, im guess thats was what you did. Having it also makes it easier to get approved for TSA precheck. But there are even fewer locations for precheck so I have not done that either. And even then I know you cant skip the lines in atlanta becuase i was next to a guy who had global entry and i assume precheck and was pissed he was waiting in the same line as me.







You can ship it to yourself, or a friend, in Europe via FedEx or DHL.
Fill out your own Customs declaration and attach a pro forma invoice to the outside of the package. Declare a value of $0.00.
No Customs delay and no charges to pay.

If you go to Europe regularly, you might want to consider keeping another 8x10 kit (camera and set of film holders) in Brussels.

I did look at that, however experience with Customs in Belgium tells me that it never goes to plan, you won't know exactly what day it gets there could be 2 days, could be 2+ weeks. If I had a spare $4000 I would keep a second camera in europe but at this point I need $6500 just for a scanner and well you can see all the film im shooting. I can only ration my hotdogs down so much each day :) Really this post was about getting my film there spending the least amount of money. Little risk with xrays but all in all seemed the best way, i might ship it back if i have drama getting there. I spent a lot of time looking at other options, hoped the info might save someone some time in the future.

jeroldharter
31-Jul-2016, 15:52
Of course, it is a fair amount of work to cram the 50 sheets into 10 sheet boxes. For smaller volumes, 2 fold packs of 10 sheets will fit in a 10 sheet box so the average shooter could cut the bulk by 50%.

That is a ton of film! How long does it take you to process that much 8x10? Are you printing it too? Just curious. It would take me a year just to catch up.

Bob Salomon
31-Jul-2016, 16:06
I have and its not that simple, at least not anymore. You have to fill out the app online, takes X number of days to approve then you have to set a date for the interview within 30 days or do it over. I looked at locations in washington, most had a 2 month plus wait time and none where I live even thou we have an international airport. Its also worth noting that having a global entry card is just for customs not TSA, you have too apply for TSA precheck. Thou if you have a known flyer number I have heard you can get auto selected for it most of the time automaticly, im guess thats was what you did. Having it also makes it easier to get approved for TSA precheck. But there are even fewer locations for precheck so I have not done that either. And even then I know you cant skip the lines in atlanta becuase i was next to a guy who had global entry and i assume precheck and was pissed he was waiting in the same line as me.

Maybe I got special treatment in getting it, I have over 1,500,000 lifetime miles on UAL and that gets both me and my wife lifetime UAL and Star Alliance status and it does automatically get me TSA Pre check in. But I am not talking about check in. I am talking about Global re-entry. And yes, you are correct, you send in your firm, they check you, then you make the appointment and get interviewed and the stamp is put in your Passport. It is not a next day thing and, like renewing a passport, does take some time. At the office that I went to at EWR, which is a very busy international airport as well as being Zuniteds NYC hub airport there were only two agents working but there were no other people waiting to be interviewed either. However it still took about an hour and a half to get the stamp.






I did look at that, however experience with Customs in Belgium tells me that it never goes to plan, you won't know exactly what day it gets there could be 2 days, could be 2+ weeks. If I had a spare $4000 I would keep a second camera in europe but at this point I need $6500 just for a scanner and well you can see all the film im shooting. I can only ration my hotdogs down so much each day :) Really this post was about getting my film there spending the least amount of money. Little risk with xrays but all in all seemed the best way, i might ship it back if i have drama getting there. I spent a lot of time looking at other options, hoped the info might save someone some time in the future.

ryanmills
31-Jul-2016, 16:20
Of course, it is a fair amount of work to cram the 50 sheets into 10 sheet boxes. For smaller volumes, 2 fold packs of 10 sheets will fit in a 10 sheet box so the average shooter could cut the bulk by 50%.

That is a ton of film! How long does it take you to process that much 8x10? Are you printing it too? Just curious. It would take me a year just to catch up.

Yea, i did test, you can 2 fit two with envelopes in a single box. It only took me about 15 minutes to break it all down and tape it up. And it fits quite perfectly with 50 sheets.I was worried about them sliding around inside but it fits just right.

Ha well, dev time depends on motivation. I dont wet print anymore, i just can't afford it. Last year on my trip I shot 700 sheets of 4x5 and ~50 rolls of 120. It took me 4 months to develop and another or so to finish scanning it all. Its a little inflated becuase it takes a while for the 120 to flatten well enough to scan some times. And i cant work on it each day. Plus I have learned from experince to scan and check my work as im developing. Just in case negs start coming out too dense or other issues. Editing on the other hand... im still not quite done and likely never will be lol. I expect it will be about the same this year. My process for developing and scanning is more streamlined now but im not sure if im going to wait till I can get a new scanner or redo it once I get it. I can tell you by christmas im pretty done with the darkroom. But im spring im itching to shoot some more.

jp
31-Jul-2016, 18:49
I think you will need to keep enough film on hand to last a couple of outings if you can't reliably get what you want on short notice for one adventure.

Tmax 400 rollfilm dries very flat for me. Might be my slightly humid location not allowing it to get super dry.

ryanmills
31-Jul-2016, 22:04
I think you will need to keep enough film on hand to last a couple of outings if you can't reliably get what you want on short notice for one adventure.

Tmax 400 rollfilm dries very flat for me. Might be my slightly humid location not allowing it to get super dry.

Yea, I'm planning to start ordering it bulk but its a lot to spend up front for the amount I need. I have found film curl depends on humidity and water temp during the wash. It never drys perfectly flat like I need for my holders but after a few weeks in plastic they are perfect. Then sometimes I get a few rolls that for whatever reason curl like mad and take 2 months. Tmax has been the best of all the films I have tried, good thick base i think helps it. Tri-x was a taco for a month.

Ari
1-Aug-2016, 09:44
Another thought is to over-buy film this time, and keep excess in your Belgian fridge.
When you return, you'll have film ready to use, one less hassle to deal with.

ryanmills
1-Aug-2016, 11:28
Another thought is to over-buy film this time, and keep excess in your Belgian fridge.
When you return, you'll have film ready to use, one less hassle to deal with.

Once I get the scanner i'm just going to start stock piling it in a freezer. Hard to say how long they will keep making it. Plus with the prices going up every year I might even save a little money. But I know myself well enough to know that if I have film, im going to shoot it. So will see how that works out :)

Jim Andrada
1-Aug-2016, 13:53
When I got my Global Entry card I got both TSA Pre and Global Entry - you're correct that all you have to do is enter your known Traveler number in your airline profile (or when you buy a ticket) and you will get TSA Pre. Note - even though you're registered there may be times when you're randomly chosen to NOT get it for a given flight. I've flown dozens of times domestically and a couple internationally in the last year or two and always got TSA-Pre.

My wife and I got our Global Entry appointments within a few days, but then again we live in Tucson, where nobody but us (and the rattlesnakes) seem to want to be in the Summer.

sepiareverb
1-Aug-2016, 17:43
Sounds like you really like tri-x, but HP5 comes in 25 sheet boxes that are the same size as the Kodak 10 sheet boxes....

And I bet you could get HP5 in Belgium fairly easily.

unityofsaints
1-Aug-2016, 19:25
Just a quick guide of sorts for anyone coming into 8x10 who travels. I will update how it all worked out after my trip.
It's worth noting I only have 260 sheets but its around ~20 pounds. With laptops, cameras, etc im hauling around 60-70 pounds on the plane. Towards the end of a 20+ hour flight it feels like 120 pounds.


What airline lets you carry on a bag of that size, surely it would either breach the HxWxL requirement or the max. weight? Impressive writeup in any case, thanks for sharing it!

ryanmills
1-Aug-2016, 20:45
What airline lets you carry on a bag of that size, surely it would either breach the HxWxL requirement or the max. weight? Impressive writeup in any case, thanks for sharing it!

I fly mostly with Delta, it all falls within the size limits. The Lowepro backpack is exactly the max size allowed for carry on and the laptop bag falls under the personal item since it can fit under the seat. But to be honest I always put it overhead and its never been an issue. It fits standing up right next to my backpack and really does not take up much space. Now weight, if there is a limit I am likely over. The European trips I carry a lot of 120 as well that weighs almost as much as the 8x10. I think im convertive in guessing the weight. But again I have never had a flight attendent ever ask or look twice. The weight is a good work out to get ready to haul the 8x10 up and down all the crazy places I take it :)

I will post a picture when I pack later this week. No extra space but it all fits nicely.

36cm2
1-Aug-2016, 20:58
Why so salty? Are you 12? Doing things my way? im not doing anything. This post was just my idea about dealing with and traveling cheaply with a lot of 8x10. Global entry or TSAPre means nothing to any of it. I'm laughing at you because you're arguing semantics about something that's not even related to the original post. And even then your changing it to say exactly what I said. "However most of the time you will automatically get it added to your boarding pass if you have a KTN. But direct from a customs agent you will likely get it more offten if you have TSApre. Now if you have global and you get it every time by all means, dont get pre. I dont care either way but the fact remains and was the orginal point. You dont get TSA pre automaticly. \_(ツ)_/ "A distinction without a difference. Excatly what im trying to figure out. So why so salty? I might ask you why so ignornt? Good day.

I'm not sure what's more impressive, the dedication to film that would drive a man to regularly tackle TSA with large volumes of 8x10, or the patience to argue regulatory meta ad nauseum on apug. Congrats on your 8x10 resolve. It's laudable that you use it despite the logistical challenges. I look forward to your future posts on getting 16x20 ambrotypes into the overhead compartment. ;)

ryanmills
3-Aug-2016, 09:06
I'm not sure what's more impressive, the dedication to film that would drive a man to regularly tackle TSA with large volumes of 8x10, or the patience to argue regulatory meta ad nauseum on apug. Congrats on your 8x10 resolve. It's laudable that you use it despite the logistical challenges. I look forward to your future posts on getting 16x20 ambrotypes into the overhead compartment. ;)

Thank you :) Traveling with 16x20 ambrotypes is planned for next year. I will let you know how it works out!

Willie
3-Aug-2016, 19:48
Just wait til you drive between Canada and the US a few times and hit the border patrol stations on a day when the guys are pissed at something. They can hold you up for hours, completely dismantle your vehicle and open everything you have packed and dump it out. Us and Canadian border types both do this on occasion.

ryanmills
4-Aug-2016, 17:33
Just wait til you drive between Canada and the US a few times and hit the border patrol stations on a day when the guys are pissed at something. They can hold you up for hours, completely dismantle your vehicle and open everything you have packed and dump it out. Us and Canadian border types both do this on occasion.

This is why I never go to Canada :)