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Robert Kalman
1-Jul-2016, 07:55
I have a black and white image that I would like to render with selenium tones. I'm using an Epson SureColor P600 and printing with the ABW driver and printing on Museo Silver Rag.

Can anyone suggest a good starting point on the color wheel (horizontal & vertical) to get to selenium? I know I'll have to experiment and tweak the numbers, but it would be helpful to know where to start.

Thanks!

152326

The Joker
1-Jul-2016, 08:05
selenium gives varying tones from just deepening blacks to very red or aubergene depending on how you use it and the paper it being used.
Use curves to add tones but I couldn't give you any explicit advice on values because only you know what you're starting with and what actual tone you want to finish with.

And normally you adjust tone in image editing tool and not your printer control panel.

Which image editing software are you using

Robert Kalman
1-Jul-2016, 08:15
selenium gives varying tones from just deepening blacks to very red or aubergene depending on how you use it and the paper it being used.
Use curves to add tones but I couldn't give you any explicit advice on values because only you know what you're starting with and what actual tone you want to finish with.

And normally you adjust tone in image editing tool and not your printer control panel.

Which image editing software are you using

Thanks, Joker.
I want to keep the image in Grayscale, that's why I want to add the tone in the printing rather than making the file RGB and toning it in Photoshop.

koraks
1-Jul-2016, 08:25
selenium gives varying tones from just deepening blacks to very red or aubergene depending on how you use it and the paper it being used.
This alone is sufficient basis for not being able to give a conclusive answer to the original question.

Robert, why not just apply the tone that you want, instead of 'toning' according to a non-existent standard?

Ken Lee
1-Jul-2016, 08:29
You can avoid the need for ABW and tone your image however you like: see this article (http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/tech/bronze.php).

This method has the further advantage of support on any printer since it's done to the image file itself, as a non-destructive adjustment layer. You can keep your original grayscale image as an "orginal".

bob carnie
1-Jul-2016, 08:32
You want to do it on the print driver.. can you isolate the shadow area only??
In RGB when I want to simulate on inkjet a selenium tone I will go into colour balance and shadow only, add a bit of colour.

Robert Kalman
1-Jul-2016, 08:36
This alone is sufficient basis for not being able to give a conclusive answer to the original question.

Robert, why not just apply the tone that you want, instead of 'toning' according to a non-existent standard?

When I was a "wet" printer, I would dilute selenium with permawash in order to achieve deeper blacks with a slight purplish tone through the mid-tones and highlights. I want to achieve this rendering using the printer's color wheel. The "cool" setting is a bit too blue...I want to tweak the setting in order to obtain purple. (And, again, I want to keep the file in grayscale rather than RGB...that's why I want to experiment using the printer's settings. I'm simply asking for a recommended starting point. Thanks!)

Robert Kalman
1-Jul-2016, 08:40
You can avoid the need for ABW and tone your image however you like: see this article (http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/tech/bronze.php).

This method has the further advantage of support on any printer since it's done to the image file itself, as a non-destructive adjustment layer. You can keep your original grayscale image as an "orginal".

Ahh...perfect! Thanks, Ken!!

brouwerkent
1-Jul-2016, 08:47
I can tell you how I achieve this with an inkjet print. I use 7 shades of BW ink....3 are cool neutral....4 are warmish. By using Quadtone Rip and the split tone feature....the prints can be tuned to look like a selenium toned silver print. You will not be able to get the split tone with ABW...but you might try QTR...

Christopher Barrett
1-Jul-2016, 08:54
From my experience, ABW mode gives far more neutral prints and better gradation than trying to do a toned black and white through the normal printing process. Using the color wheel in the ABW printer driver can give you some toning, but is limited unfortunately and you can't produce split tones or do just the shadows as fas as I'm aware. As for the toning process linked above, you do have to have an RGB image for that to work and I frankly find better control by just using an HSL layer (check 'colorize' and typically using a low saturation setting, somewhere around 5).

IMHO,
CB

Edit: I just read how Ken's process works with duotones, so I was incorrect about the RGB file. That's cool! Still, though, I think ABW will give you better results in the end.

The Joker
1-Jul-2016, 08:58
in photoshop if you have desatured your image to greyscale but keeping the file as an RGB file, then adding a curve is an adjustment layer so the underlying image is not altered. You can just switch the curve on or off to see the pure greyscale or affect with curve. So I don't really see the problem unless you don't have an image editing tool.

Ken Lee
1-Jul-2016, 13:38
You want to do it on the print driver.. can you isolate the shadow area only??
In RGB when I want to simulate on inkjet a selenium tone I will go into colour balance and shadow only, add a bit of colour.

Although Bob stated it briefly, it's an important point worth repeating !

In Photoshop we can specify which part of the tonal scale we want to change with each adjustment. We can make the dark values cooler, the middle high values more golden, the whites pure white, etc. We can tailor a specific toning treatment for every different image, according to taste.

Now if those darned OEM inks didn't fade and shift over time, we'd really be in business :rolleyes:

Peter De Smidt
1-Jul-2016, 14:02
My preferred method is to change the file to color. Add a curves adjustment layer. Use the various curves to give you the color that you want. Note that it's no problem to make split-tones..... Change the blending mode of the curves adjustment layer to "color", and adjust opacity to taste.

When working with any split tones, using a step wedge file is very helpful.

koraks
2-Jul-2016, 07:05
When I was a "wet" printer, I would dilute selenium with permawash in order to achieve deeper blacks with a slight purplish tone through the mid-tones and highlights. I want to achieve this rendering using the printer's color wheel. The "cool" setting is a bit too blue...I want to tweak the setting in order to obtain purple. (And, again, I want to keep the file in grayscale rather than RGB...that's why I want to experiment using the printer's settings. I'm simply asking for a recommended starting point. Thanks!)

Given what you're trying to do, I think the several approaches towards split toning are more likely to yield the results that you're looking for than trying to coax ABW into something it just isn't very capable of. I personally use a gradient map layer on top of a black and white image layer. The tone/color can be adjusted in just about any imaginable way, distinguishing between only shadows and highlights or running through a great number of steps and variations. The toning can be adjusted to taste using the opacity slider on the entire layer, or even/also through selective masking.
I'm not sure what your concern is in not wanting to convert to a color version; if it worries you, consider saving an original file as well as an edited version for printing. I usually do this as well; I store the tiff as it has been scanned and never alter it in any way, so I can always go back to the 'original'.

bob carnie
2-Jul-2016, 07:13
A silver wet print when toned can exhibit change only in the low end , when you start reaching the high values the whole print is a red mess.

so this is why I like hitting different areas with different tonalitys, to give a split toned effect.


Although Bob stated it briefly, it's an important point worth repeating !

In Photoshop we can specify which part of the tonal scale we want to change with each adjustment. We can make the dark values cooler, the middle high values more golden, the whites pure white, etc. We can tailor a specific toning treatment for every different image, according to taste.

Now if those darned OEM inks didn't fade and shift over time, we'd really be in business :rolleyes:

Peter Langham
2-Jul-2016, 11:17
You can use QTR to stay with greyscale file and split tone. Allows separate settings for highlight, midtones and shadows.

Robert Kalman
3-Jul-2016, 16:47
Thanks, everyone, for the helpful comments! I got the answer I was looking for.

neil poulsen
5-Jul-2016, 07:13
You can use QTR to stay with greyscale file and split tone. Allows separate settings for highlight, midtones and shadows.

This would be my solution. QTR is an excellent RIP for rendering "B&W" images. It avoids color fringing with which I've had problems in B&W RGB files.

WalkerBlackwell
20-Aug-2016, 14:10
We sell a dedicated "selenium" Piezography inkset at InkjetMall. We will also be releasing the new "pro" inkset that will enable true split-toning of monochrome inks as well as industry-leading dMax and gloss-differential/bronzing control.

best,
Walker