View Full Version : Beseler 45 - upper bellows adjustment
I have looked on the forum, but can't find an answer to my question.
I'm helping out in a public darkroom with a few Beseler 45s (as well as other enlargers). As many know, you adjust the upper bellows to match the film format you're using. Many of our enlargers seem to be missing that scale, too many to be simple accident. I suppose I could fashion a scale out of flat aluminum stock.
But in a darkroom such as ours, used by many with minimal experience, I'm tempted to set them all at 4x5 even though they're primarily used for smaller formats. My thinking is that they'll get even illumination with any format size, though perhaps with reduced illumination for smaller formats.
Is my logic correct?
I have a dichroic head and just leave it at 4x5. No idea how it would fare with other light sources.
I think the adjustments aren't made with diffusion heads such as the dichroic. I know that on a Beseler 23c, you make the same upper bellows adjustment with the condenser head, but not with the dichroic head.
Alan9940
1-May-2016, 08:15
I think the adjustments aren't made with diffusion heads such as the dichroic. I know that on a Beseler 23c, you make the same upper bellows adjustment with the condenser head, but not with the dichroic head.
Same on the 45 series. If using any type of diffusion head, you actually want it on the 4x5 setting.
Steve Goldstein
1-May-2016, 13:28
Which is the 4x5 setting? All the way up, all the way down, or...? As you can tell, my 45 doesn't have the ruler. I've had the light source all the way down (bellows compressed), which has always seemed to be fine for 35mm, 6x7, and 4x5 with my Zone VI head.
I believe it's all the way down, but won't be able to confirm until tomorrow. Your Zone vi head is (I believe) diffusion so won't have the same light dynamics as the condenser head.
Keith Pitman
1-May-2016, 15:29
I remember that Zone VI directed the bellows should be all the way down with their heads.
Alan9940
1-May-2016, 16:09
Sorry, HMG, all the way down. I use an Aristo VC unit on my Beseler 45 and the light source is just barely above the negative.
Here's the scale (metal tape measure looking piece) on my 4x5 CB7. Ruler for reference.
150339
I appreciate the info on diffusion heads. But please keep in mind that my question is about the condenser head.
Ian Gordon Bilson
2-May-2016, 01:26
Well,my experience is only with the 23C, but the circle of illumination with the condenser head is easily observable at the negative stage. Just adjust to cover..
Doremus Scudder
2-May-2016, 01:35
It's fairly easy to fashion a replacement scale yourself. There are some images on the web somewhere; do a search for "stage positioning guide" and "negative positioning scale" along with Beseler and see what you find. You can also order the part from Beseler if you want.
I noted down info from a post here or on APUG some time ago about the dimensions of the scale. Here it is:
"Negative Size Indicator Kit part number 10-31362
The indicator is attached by two screws. You can easily make one from thin metal, plastic, wood, even cardboard. The indicator mark measurements for the different size negatives below are all from the LOWER of the two screw holes:
4 x 5--one inch up
3 /14 x 4 1/4--2 3/16" up
2 1/4 x 3 1/4--3 1/4 " up
2 1/4 x 2 1/4--4 1/4" up
35mm--5 3/4" up.
Keep in mind that the precision required here is not very great. Actually, you can enlarge all the smaller sized negatives with the head set at 4 x 5, but that doesn't make greatest use of the enlarger's light intensity. If in doubt, just fudge a bit on the side of a bigger negative."
I supply this with a nod of thanks to whoever supplied it in the first place. Hope it helps.
Best,
Doremus
The condenser adjustment changes the cone of light in relation to the lens to neg distance... At other settings, the light might band or even "kidney bean" in the illumination circle...
There's always trying it out...
Steve K
So I did a bit of testing. First, both the 23C and the 45 operate the same in that the upper bellows are extended for smaller formats (as Doremus' measurements indicate). But what confuses me is that I see obvious light falloff what the bellows at the 4x5 setting when using a 35mm carrier and a 50mm lens. Better, but still some, with a 75mm lens.
I do realize that the 50mm (or 75mm lens) lens won't have the coverage of a lens typically used for 4x5, but I thought this would be moot when using the 35mm carrier.
Bob Salomon
2-May-2016, 16:17
So I did a bit of testing. First, both the 23C and the 45 operate the same in that the upper bellows are extended for smaller formats (as Doremus' measurements indicate). But what confuses me is that I see obvious light falloff what the bellows at the 4x5 setting when using a 35mm carrier and a 50mm lens. Better, but still some, with a 75mm lens.
I do realize that the 50mm (or 75mm lens) lens won't have the coverage of a lens typically used for 4x5, but I thought this would be moot when using the 35mm carrier.
Why would you use the 45 bellows setting for 35 anyway?
Why would you use the 45 bellows setting for 35 anyway?
See my original post. This is a community darkroom with many inexperienced users and (unfortunately) not a person on staff all the time to instruct.
John Olsen
2-May-2016, 17:20
I appreciate the info on diffusion heads. But please keep in mind that my question is about the condenser head.
Re: Condenser head.
I'll put my condenser head on tomorrow and post some photos with the scale in place and some measurements. You'll be able to use the measurements once you've seen the photos of the scale. I hope that will help you.
Re: Condenser head.
I'll put my condenser head on tomorrow and post some photos with the scale in place and some measurements. You'll be able to use the measurements once you've seen the photos of the scale. I hope that will help you.
I appreciate that but - I think - unnecessary. I do have a scale that I can attach. I can set up each enlarger for a specific format, but I was hoping that I could keep them all set at 4x5 for all formats. Based on my simple test, it doesn't seem feasible.
Bob Salomon
3-May-2016, 07:10
I appreciate that but - I think - unnecessary. I do have a scale that I can attach. I can set up each enlarger for a specific format, but I was hoping that I could keep them all set at 4x5 for all formats. Based on my simple test, it doesn't seem feasible.
You said that you are "helping out" I don't quite understand why it would be your responsibility. Isn't that the job of who ever is in overall charge? Seems to me that the goal would be for every user to be able to make their best prints, that would require the enlarger's to be set up properly. Why not just print out and post signs at each station telling the users how to set up the enlarger's?
I would be more concerned, in a community darkroom, that they are all properly aligned.
You said that you are "helping out" I don't quite understand why it would be your responsibility. Isn't that the job of who ever is in overall charge? Seems to me that the goal would be for every user to be able to make their best prints, that would require the enlarger's to be set up properly. Why not just print out and post signs at each station telling the users how to set up the enlarger's?
I would be more concerned, in a community darkroom, that they are all properly aligned.
First, as to alignment, you're absolutely right. But I'm working on an alignment tool like this (http://www.trippingthroughthedark.com/laser-alignment-tool-3d-printed-stand/) using a laser.
Second, with respect to "helping out", right now there is no one so I'm effectively in charge. But I say "helping out" because - in retirement - I'm jealously guarding my flexibility as to time and place and avoiding unnecessary commitments. So it's a labor of love on my own terms.
Third, as to printing and posting signs, I have thought about that but it seems the signs get pretty verbose. I think the difficulty is trying to deal with both beginners and experienced users. Things that might seem obvious to those here may not be so obvious to beginners (and probably weren't obvious to those here when beginning). We really should have a mandatory "intro" course on using the enlargers, but that gets back to my second point. I've also thought about reserving certain enlargers for experienced users, but not sure if that might be too difficult to control on a day-to-day basis.
I should add that this darkroom is part of a larger photography oriented center but, by no means, the focus. It probably doesn't really pay it's own way in terms of square footage used. So we live within those constraints.
Bob Salomon
3-May-2016, 09:43
First, as to alignment, you're absolutely right. But I'm working on an alignment tool like this (http://www.trippingthroughthedark.com/laser-alignment-tool-3d-printed-stand/) using a laser.
Second, with respect to "helping out", right now there is no one so I'm effectively in charge. But I say "helping out" because - in retirement - I'm jealously guarding my flexibility as to time and place and avoiding unnecessary commitments. So it's a labor of love on my own terms.
Third, as to printing and posting signs, I have thought about that but it seems the signs get pretty verbose. I think the difficulty is trying to deal with both beginners and experienced users. Things that might seem obvious to those here may not be so obvious to beginners (and probably weren't obvious to those here when beginning). We really should have a mandatory "intro" course on using the enlargers, but that gets back to my second point. I've also thought about reserving certain enlargers for experienced users, but not sure if that might be too difficult to control on a day-to-day basis.
I should add that this darkroom is part of a larger photography oriented center but, by no means, the focus. It probably doesn't really pay it's own way in terms of square footage used. So we live within those constraints.
Doesn't have to be verbose at all. Pictograms are very easy to understand and they would only take, in this case, the format numbers and an arrow pointing to the proper bellows position.
John Olsen
3-May-2016, 14:55
Re: Condenser head.
I'll put my condenser head on tomorrow and post some photos with the scale in place and some measurements. You'll be able to use the measurements once you've seen the photos of the scale. I hope that will help you.
Here are a few photos with the scale attached next to the condenser head. As Doremus posted earlier, you can just measure from the lower screw to the red pointer or make your own device. Hope this helps.
150398
150399
150400
Here's another thing:
If you are sure that most of the negs the users are going to print are, let's say 35mm, you can move the stage to the height mentioned above, and then change the locking knob to a set screw, and maybe remove the stage lift knob so there is one thing less for the users to mess with, and maybe not tear up something in the enlarger... It could clearly be marked for 35mm, another for 2 1/4'' and so on... Also, this way the stage will not creep around (as they sometimes do) when the carrier is inserted and opened and closed in the enlarger... It will save some wear & tear there...
Steve K
Labrat, I think that's best. We have 3 Bes 45s, I'd set one to 4x5 (though I haven't seen anyone print 4x5 there) and 2 to 6x9. All with lenses to match. We have other enlargers we can "allocate" to 35mm. If, for some reason (like a class), we need to set the 45s to 35mm, we can do that.
As to "tearing up an enlarger", I went in last night and an Omega B66 was broken. The carriage lock screw was snapped. Never reported; my guess is that someone tried to force the carriage up or down with it locked. So the less there is the fiddle with the better off we'll be.
stawastawa
6-May-2016, 00:29
So I did a bit of testing. First, both the 23C and the 45 operate the same in that the upper bellows are extended for smaller formats (as Doremus' measurements indicate). But what confuses me is that I see obvious light falloff what the bellows at the 4x5 setting when using a 35mm carrier and a 50mm lens. Better, but still some, with a 75mm lens.
I do realize that the 50mm (or 75mm lens) lens won't have the coverage of a lens typically used for 4x5, but I thought this would be moot when using the 35mm carrier.
What interesting findings, I hope someone can add some information about this observation. If I remember I will try and play around with my 23c and mx45 in a week or two when I have time for it.
John Dey
7-May-2016, 09:32
Adjusting the second bellows does effect image quality with the condenser setup on the 45MX. The adjust is not super critical, but it does make a difference that you can see. I have made some measurements for you. The bottom stage is tapered so the measurements would be different between the front edge and the back edge. Your condenser head and negative stage will have pre-drilled wholes for where the scale would attach. The holes are located at the back right hand side of the stage. This is the location from where I have made measurements. Measurements are in inches.
4 x 5 - fully compressed
6 x 9 - 2 1/4
6 x 7 - 2 3/4
6 x 6 - 3 1/8
35mm - 4 3/4 (full height)
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