Scitex Eversmart Pro Scanner Users [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Pali K

27-Apr-2016, 10:03

I just purchased a Scitex Eversmart Pro scanner for ULF scanning this past weekend and I am curious if there are any other users here that have this or a similar scanner. Mine is actually not in full operational condition right now and I am in the process of troubleshooting it with Michael Streeter but hope to have it working very soon.

I am hoping that there are other users here so I can ask questions on the workflow and get tips on how to use this scanner to it's ability.

Pali

Ari

2-May-2016, 05:19

Pali, I just picked up one of these scanners, and it comes with everything needed to use it right away.
It should get here within the next two weeks, so if you need some software or anything, I apparently will have a complete and fully-functional system.

bob carnie

2-May-2016, 05:49

I have a Creo Eversmart Supreme , may not be exact but basically same workflow

I wonder if anyone has heard of a high plastic vacumn system that could be put over transparancys or negatives that would suction down the image to the glass, it would have to have good optical features
and as well allow a tube to come into the glass area to work??

I do have a wet mount platform for this but with client film and old film I am hesitant to use the feature.

I just purchased a Scitex Eversmart Pro scanner for ULF scanning this past weekend and I am curious if there are any other users here that have this or a similar scanner. Mine is actually not in full operational condition right now and I am in the process of troubleshooting it with Michael Streeter but hope to have it working very soon.

I am hoping that there are other users here so I can ask questions on the workflow and get tips on how to use this scanner to it's ability.

Pali

Pali K

3-May-2016, 06:40

:D Huge thank you to Michael Streeter from Genesis Equipment for helping me bring my scanner to life again! What a great man - so kind and generous with his time to help.

I have only made some quick test so far and am already impressed with how well this scanner does. Here are my 1st two test scans. The 1st is from a 4x5 Velvia 100 and the 2nd is from a 11x14 HP5. I am sure I'll be able to bring more detail out once I figure out the software better.

http://imgur.com/a/BGAtY

Pali, I just picked up one of these scanners, and it comes with everything needed to use it right away.
It should get here within the next two weeks, so if you need some software or anything, I apparently will have a complete and fully-functional system.

Congrats Ari! You'll absolutely love it especially since I think you are upgrading from an Epson V750. The quality from this is at another level :)

I have a Creo Eversmart Supreme , may not be exact but basically same workflow

I wonder if anyone has heard of a high plastic vacumn system that could be put over transparancys or negatives that would suction down the image to the glass, it would have to have good optical features
and as well allow a tube to come into the glass area to work??

I do have a wet mount platform for this but with client film and old film I am hesitant to use the feature.

Bob, does your scanner have the top glass that is spring action like mine? If so, doesn't it do a good job at putting pressure on the negative and hold it flat? I do have wet mounting setup for my drum scanner and I'll try to do a wet scan soon and see how much the quality improves. I have done quite a bit of wet mounting now and some of the newer mounting fluids are so easy to work with that I don't really think you'll be risking much with old negatives. Look into mounting fluids from Scanscience of Kami which evaporate very clean. The only thing to watch out is that you use mounting fluid safe tape so the adhesive doesn't make a mess on your negatives.

You may also want to check out this Youtube video that shows oil mounting on your scanner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvXW7ZG2b6o

Ari

3-May-2016, 07:46

Fantastic scans, Pali, and it's good to know that these were done dry.
I had been told that this scanner performs best when wet-mounted, but your results are certainly quite acceptable! :)

bob carnie

3-May-2016, 09:41

Pali

Over time I have felt a nagging suspicion that the spring action is actually not enough pressure to give great contact...I would like to be proven wrong.
I agree about Micheal Streeter as a great guy as I bought mine from him as well.

I really have a clientele that would be extremely resistant to me putting any fluid on the original negatives. This has cropped up many times and the
overall consensuses is to not wet mount no matter what we feel that the results would be fine. I can test this wet mount system of mine on my own work
as I am confident but trying to convince an estate gallery or photographer with over 300 key images to do so is really not in the cards.
I have kept my Imocan for this very reason even though I like the Eversmart just as much and its much easier to work with.

Sandy King may have sparked an idea so I do not want to take credit but what if there was a clear neoprene flat pancake type of plastic or rubber attached to a thin suction hose
and small pump. You would place your negatives anywhere in a group on the flat bed, lay the optical clear rubber over top and turn on the pump.. the neoprane would suction down to the glass
therefore bringing the film into direct contact... If thin enough and optically clear enough on the top of the backside of neg or trans I think this would work very well... any thoughts , concerns , ideas about this type of idea.

Bob

Pali K

3-May-2016, 11:44

Bob,

Thanks for explaining the idea a little bit more. It sounds really interesting actually but I wonder how well it will do with filling in emulsion pores and any fine scratches. Having no experience with it, its hard to say exactly how well it will work but I have a general feeling that getting it perfect might end up be the same amount of work as wet mounting. I would be curious to know the results if someone tries this method.

I do however understand your position where your clients may not be comfortable with mounting fluids. I had the same general fear when I got started with it last year and was hesitant to fluid mount some of my best slides and negatives. After doing it for a few times, I realized that the process actually cleans my negatives and haven't really worried much at all.

Regards,

Pali

bob carnie

3-May-2016, 13:07

Hi Pali

I understand the process but clients are not so worldly when it comes to someone else handling their work.

the vacuum would be on the base side and would hold for sure, I did a lot of this work with oversize film over smaller frame with a vacumn frame

the secret would be getting the hose in

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for explaining the idea a little bit more. It sounds really interesting actually but I wonder how well it will do with filling in emulsion pores and any fine scratches. Having no experience with it, its hard to say exactly how well it will work but I have a general feeling that getting it perfect might end up be the same amount of work as wet mounting. I would be curious to know the results if someone tries this method.

I do however understand your position where your clients may not be comfortable with mounting fluids. I had the same general fear when I got started with it last year and was hesitant to fluid mount some of my best slides and negatives. After doing it for a few times, I realized that the process actually cleans my negatives and haven't really worried much at all.

Regards,

Pali

Ari

4-May-2016, 11:40

More of a general question than a specific one about the Eversmart:

Those of you with high-end scanners (flatbed or drum), do you use the scanner for almost everything (LF, MF, 35mm, good & so-so negs)?
Or do you use the scanner for your best negs only, saving the scanner and its components from faster wear because of a scarcity of available parts?

I know the Eversmart was a workhorse in its day, meant for high-volume scanning, but replacement lamps aren't cheap, and they're probably the least expensive things to replace on a scanner like this.
And I'm also wondering if keeping a v750 around is worth it or not.

Thanks in advance.

Jim Andrada

4-May-2016, 14:38

Good question!!! As you know, I have an IQsmart 2 coming in a few weeks but they're both pretty heavy duty machines so my thinking is to use the IQsmart for everything and replace the Coolscan as well as the 750 because from talking with Michael at Genesis I think the workflow will be much better. Right now I have to re-position the film for each frame and it's more "fiddly" than it should be with the Coolscan. What he told me was that I can make a mask for a couple of rolls of film and predefine all the individual photo locations and make a template for it so each time I load a few strips I just have to slightly move the marquees to adjust for spacing differences or delete some of them and then let it scan all the photos while I go do something else. I'm not sure if the Eversmart has the same capability or not, but that's my thinking. At nearly 76, the remaining service life of the scanner operator is a bigger question mark than the remaining service life of the scanner!

bob carnie

5-May-2016, 06:35

Hi Jim

I use the whole bed of the scanner at full resolution and lay down negatives as Micheal suggests.. it is a very easy matter of duplicate crop and you can batch preview scan .

each image is then available for adjustments and sharpness decision... I take sharpening off and leave that for PS. I must say the noise of these machines will drive you crazy, as well I do not load up the system with too many
batch scans as sometimes I have seen the system lock up.

The Oxygen system is a bit clumsy to work with since it is 90's tech but hey at 76 you will find this stuff easy. Though the scanner I have does support 16 bit capture, some of the corrections for curves and density colour do not
work . I have seemed to figure out how to work around this, but it did take me lots of trial to do so.

I think you will find you can indeed walk away after you have set up each image and let the machine work for an hour or two.

bob

Good question!!! As you know, I have an IQsmart 2 coming in a few weeks but they're both pretty heavy duty machines so my thinking is to use the IQsmart for everything and replace the Coolscan as well as the 750 because from talking with Michael at Genesis I think the workflow will be much better. Right now I have to re-position the film for each frame and it's more "fiddly" than it should be with the Coolscan. What he told me was that I can make a mask for a couple of rolls of film and predefine all the individual photo locations and make a template for it so each time I load a few strips I just have to slightly move the marquees to adjust for spacing differences or delete some of them and then let it scan all the photos while I go do something else. I'm not sure if the Eversmart has the same capability or not, but that's my thinking. At nearly 76, the remaining service life of the scanner operator is a bigger question mark than the remaining service life of the scanner!

bob carnie

5-May-2016, 06:38

HI Ari

I have an Imocan , Epson 10000 and Eversmart Supreme.

The Eversmart is my go to unit for larger film , and my Imocan is used for single frame smaller format.
both give very nice scans that pushed to PS make amazing prints.

If I can figure out the neoprene vacuum system I spoke about I would go exclusively to the Eversmart due to its batch function that Jim is pining for.

Bob

More of a general question than a specific one about the Eversmart:

Those of you with high-end scanners (flatbed or drum), do you use the scanner for almost everything (LF, MF, 35mm, good & so-so negs)?
Or do you use the scanner for your best negs only, saving the scanner and its components from faster wear because of a scarcity of available parts?

I know the Eversmart was a workhorse in its day, meant for high-volume scanning, but replacement lamps aren't cheap, and they're probably the least expensive things to replace on a scanner like this.
And I'm also wondering if keeping a v750 around is worth it or not.

Thanks in advance.

Ari

5-May-2016, 08:18

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the info regarding your scanning usage; I'm leaning towards using the Creo exclusively, I can usually tell a good neg from a bad one on the light table.
And according to this Genesis page, the Eversmart and IQ series all offer batch scanning: http://www.genesis-equipment.com/productslink_Refurbished-CreoScitex-Scanners_6_53.aspx
The IQ series do so about twice as quickly.

I'm trying to figure out where I'll put the scanner. Dust is an issue throughout our house.
I have a desk that is usable, but it's adjacent to my regular work desk.
And if the scanner is as noisy as you say, it'll have to be kept farther away from my daughter's room, basement maybe.

bob carnie

5-May-2016, 09:47

The scanner I have is really heavy and yes noisy... dust is a problem to be concerned about.

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the info regarding your scanning usage; I'm leaning towards using the Creo exclusively, I can usually tell a good neg from a bad one on the light table.
And according to this Genesis page, the Eversmart and IQ series all offer batch scanning: http://www.genesis-equipment.com/productslink_Refurbished-CreoScitex-Scanners_6_53.aspx
The IQ series do so about twice as quickly.

I'm trying to figure out where I'll put the scanner. Dust is an issue throughout our house.
I have a desk that is usable, but it's adjacent to my regular work desk.
And if the scanner is as noisy as you say, it'll have to be kept farther away from my daughter's room, basement maybe.

Jim Andrada

5-May-2016, 10:30

Pali K

5-May-2016, 14:33

Ari, the noise on our particular model is not too bad. It certainly isn't quite but I don't think it's loud enough to disturb someone in room separated by a wall.

I think you'll know as soon you power it on and get a feel for it yourself.

I also think you'll be happy with your decision to use Eversmart exclusively since the quality difference is so significant.

I look forward to seeing your scans soon.

Ari

5-May-2016, 19:43

Thanks Bob

Yeah, noise. Considering that I'm sitting in front of three computers and a vent fan that exhausts outdoors maybe not a huge problem, and with the constant ringing in my ears that comes with maturity i'm not sure I'll notice it. I'm actually going to move the Epson 4880 and the IQsmart (when it gets here) into a closet - have to make a bit of an alcove in the wall behind the printer so it will fit inside, but that's an afternoon's job. Or it used to be when I was spry enough/small enough to wiggle into the space. I'm in process of building a unit that will hold the printer and scanner on full extension pull out slides rated at 150 pounds per drawer, which should be adequate.

Must be some closet!

Ari, the noise on our particular model is not too bad. It certainly isn't quite but I don't think it's loud enough to disturb someone in room separated by a wall.

I think you'll know as soon you power it on and get a feel for it yourself.

I also think you'll be happy with your decision to use Eversmart exclusively since the quality difference is so significant.

I look forward to seeing your scans soon.

Thank you, Pali; the video I sent you showed a somewhat quiet scanner operation, so dust should now be my main concern.

B.S.Kumar

5-May-2016, 20:12

My iQSmart 2 was pretty quiet, not enough to disturb me, even in the same room.

Kumar

Jim Andrada

5-May-2016, 20:38

Hi Ari

Just a regular closet - I use a spare room as an office and it has a full size closet that I'm adding shelves and cabinets to so I can get all of my camera gear organized in one place.

You'd feel right at home in Tucson - we have the only Interstate Highway in the US that's marked in Kilometers, I-19 from Tucson to Nogales on the Mexican border about 60 miles South of Tucson. It's getting "warm" now - It was over 100F/38C at the house today but only 7% humidity so fairly comfortable.

Pali K

6-May-2016, 21:31

Here is a quick comparison of Eversmart Pro (LEFT) vs. Scanmate 11000 Drum Scanner (RIGHT). I am blown away with the quality of the Eversmart Pro - it's almost drum quality!

http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartPro/ES%20vs%20SM11K.jpg

Couple of quick observations about these two scanners:
- Eversmart Pro has cleaner raw scans. Scanmate has the red color cast but is easily corrected via color profiling.
- Scanmate has cleaner vibrant colors that match the E6 velvia. This is especially visible around the film markings where Eversmart suffers from light bleeding and muted colors.
- Scanmate is significantly faster. <-- This was a huge surprise for me. The 2000 DPI scans for a 8x10 on the Eversmart Pro are SLOWWWW :)
- For me personally, the Eversmart is almost drum quality and the shadow performance is ridiculous. I expected it to be good but not this good. WOW!

I am making a 2000 DPI scan with the ES Pro and will post true full resolution comparisons once it's done.

Ari

7-May-2016, 08:49

Pretty impressive, Pali; please keep us posted, if only to live vicariously through these scans until our own scanners arrive.

Jim Andrada

7-May-2016, 16:10

Hi Pali. Very nice. By the way, were you using a mask with the ES? I've heard it can help if there is a problem on the film edges.

Pali K

7-May-2016, 17:36

Jim, not for this scan but I did for my previous 4x5 scans and noticed that it still bleeds a little. The masks do make a big difference though. I think slight bleeding is to be expected if you are going to try to keep the edge markings in the scan which inherently lets some light in from the edge.

BTW, my 2000 DPI scan did finish last night and it is amazing. I am going to try to get some comparative images up later tonight and I think everyone will like the results. :)

Jim Andrada

7-May-2016, 18:32

Thanks much. Ari and I are in the same boat - don't have the new scanners in hand yet, so trying to get smart while waiting.

Ari

7-May-2016, 18:35

Pali, just curious: how long did it take to scan at 2000 dpi, and how powerful is your scanner's computer?

B.S.Kumar

7-May-2016, 19:36

So that's why you're getting an EverSmart!

Thanks much. Ari and I are in the same boat - don't have the new scanners in hand yet, so trying to get smart while waiting.

Ari

7-May-2016, 19:44

So that's why you're getting an EverSmart!

Well, hopefully the name will bring positive associations, as well as superior scans.

Jim Andrada

7-May-2016, 19:47

I hope it turns out to be a smart move for both of us.

Pali K

7-May-2016, 20:08

Ari and Jim, I can confirm that its a smart move. I just have a slight head start on both of you since mine arrived a few weeks ago and I just got it working last week. Still not 100% but we'll get there :) Below are some test scans to show how powerful this machine is.

Thanks to Armando who was kind enough to send me a calibration slide that arrived today. I tested the Eversmart Pro and mine seems to have resolved ~2900 DPI optical resolution. This was scanned at 3175 DPI which is the rated maximum for the scanner. I will try scanning again at 4000 DPI to see if that helps. I won't post the DPI test from Scanmate 11000 because that would be silly.

http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartPro/Comparison/ES-PRO_Res_Crop.jpg

Pali K

7-May-2016, 20:18

Now to my test Velvia 50 8x10 scan that was made at 2000 DPI on both the Eversmart Pro and Scanmate 11000. The only adjustments I applied to each was levels to try to match the contrast between the both. The Scanmate is color calibrated but the ES Pro is not (yet).

http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartPro/Comparison/ES%20vs%20SM11K%202000%20DPI.jpg

http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartPro/Comparison/ES%20vs%20SM11K%202000%20DPI%20Levels.jpg

1200 pixel images [embedded] and 2500 pixel images linked from both scanners. PM or email me if you would like to see the full 2000 DPI versions.

Eversmart Pro - Click image for larger version

http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartPro/Comparison/ES-PRO_8x10_2000DPI_1200px.jpg (http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartPro/Comparison/ES-PRO_8x10_2000DPI_2500px.jpg)

Scanmate 11000 Drum Scanner - Click image for larger version

http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartPro/Comparison/Deardorff%208x10%20Early%20Fall%20Tree%20Sep%202015_1200px.jpg (http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartPro/Comparison/Deardorff%208x10%20Early%20Fall%20Tree%20Sep%202015_2500px.jpg)

Hope this helps someone.

Regards,

Pali

Pali K

7-May-2016, 20:22

Pali, just curious: how long did it take to scan at 2000 dpi, and how powerful is your scanner's computer?

Ari, I would say it was about an hour or slightly more. I walked away from the scanner as soon as I realized it was slow. My scanner is hooked up to an Apple G4 which I don't think it is slowing down my scanning process. Scanmate does 8x10 at 2000 DPI in roughly 20 minutes.

B.S.Kumar

7-May-2016, 20:28

I hope it turns out to be a smart move for both of us.

I used to own an iQSmart2. I sold it when we moved to India for a few years. Maybe I've become less smart now :(

B.S.Kumar

7-May-2016, 20:33

Ari, I would say it was about an hour or slightly more. I walked away from the scanner as soon as I realized it was slow. My scanner is hooked up to an Apple G4 which I don't think it is slowing down my scanning process. Scanmate does 8x10 at 2000 DPI in roughly 20 minutes.

For these scanners, it is best to have a very minimal configuration with only the scanner software. No internet/networking, etc. And max the RAM. I used to run my iQSmart with an iBook G4 initially, then a Powerbook G4 and finally a G4 desktop. Each was better than the previous, and in all cases, using it as a dedicated computer made a world of a difference.

Jim Andrada

8-May-2016, 10:16

Hi Kumar

Thanks for the comments re dedicating the scanning computer. In my case I'm planning to use an old Mac Mini that's just sitting around with no other applications installed. I was thinking of connecting it to a network so I could transfer files to the Windows machines where I run Adobe CC and was hoping to use VNC so I could remote the desktop to my Windows systems since they're at my desk and the scanner will be some distance away and not in a very convenient place to use a display and keyboard. I suppose I could always use a remote KVM box next to the Mini and or run a long Firewire cable to my desk, and save the files to a flash drive, though. I guess we'll try and see what happens.

bob carnie

8-May-2016, 10:18

I have my Eversmart networked to a Drobo storage, do not have any problems yet.

For these scanners, it is best to have a very minimal configuration with only the scanner software. No internet/networking, etc. And max the RAM. I used to run my iQSmart with an iBook G4 initially, then a Powerbook G4 and finally a G4 desktop. Each was better than the previous, and in all cases, using it as a dedicated computer made a world of a difference.

Pali K

8-May-2016, 11:24

Bob, what version of Mac OS are you on? Eversmart and Eversmart Pro only work with OS 9.2 max using the Eversmart Scan software.

I am using USB storage to move scans to my Adobe CC machine for the time being. It works but adds another 30 minutes to copy files since USB on the old Mac is extremely slow.

Jim Andrada

8-May-2016, 15:49

I've been using networked storage for 12 - 15 years in one form or another, so it's been supported by some pretty old OS's. I set up a couple of Linux systems as file servers using SAMBA at least 12 years ago and then moved to a NAS box about 10 years back. Come to think of it I had an Ethernet network set up in my apartment in Tokyo well over 20 years ago and it worked fine.

B.S.Kumar

8-May-2016, 16:27

Networking with these old scanners may or may not work well. Initially I too connected the Mac to my Ethernet network, but all kinds of funny things happened. It would stop midway, or the scan would get corrupted. When I isolated the Mac and removed everything except oXYgen, it behaved as it should have. USB transfer on the old Macs is indeed slow.

Kumar

Jim Andrada

8-May-2016, 17:34

I guess I could always use a USB hard drive on the Mac instead of a thumb drive and just mount it in the external SATA socket on my PC to transfer the file - in fact I could probably just work from the external SATA drive.

Ari

8-May-2016, 18:07

B.S.Kumar

8-May-2016, 19:52

The last Mac desktop I used with the iQSmart was a G5. It was noticeably faster. But check the attached software compatibility chart first. Not all versions of oXYgen will run on all Macs.

Kumar

150627

SergeyT

10-May-2016, 20:35

Jim Andrada

10-May-2016, 21:00

Does the speed of the Mac seem to matter in so far as having the network active? If possible I'd like to preview and set up the scan from a remote system and then I'd be OK closing down the network connection and initiating the actual scans from the Mac. I was thinking of using a Mac mini to control the scanner but I'll probably be getting a few12 core Mac Pro's to use as render nodes for Maxwell Render so would be able to use one as a scanner controller since I wouldn'qt be rendering while scanning.

The scanner will be a fair distance away from my desk and not in a place that would be convenient to have a decent monitor and work space.

Pali K

11-May-2016, 03:51

From my limited experience ES Pro was capable of producing of better scans than a Scanmate ever could, especially when it came to extracting shadow details from Velvia.
The DAC is 14 bit and all internal image processing is done in 16 bit, but a non-II model was only capable of saving 8-bit images, if I'm not mistaken. If that's the case consider opening the shadows in oXYgen with a tone curve rather then on a 8-bit file in post. If your oXYgen allows to save 16 bit files then no adjustments other than endpoints would be required.
Sharpening should always be off.
Wet mounting does not make much of a difference, if any at all.
Masking goes a long way. I cut my mask to scan 2 LF films at a time and had the rest of the bed masked. The mask had an overlap with film borders. If I had to scan just one piece I covered the remaining opening with another mask.
Consider using your MAC just for scanning and nothing else while the scanner is running or it will lock up or introduce artifacts.
I scanned a set onto a local drive and after that was done moved them to another location over TCP.
They tend to gradually increase room temperature and if the CCD fan stops, due to its age, the hit may damage the CCD. Watch for that. I think there is test for the fan in the scanner utilities somewhere.
Thanks for this information but out of curiosity which Scanmate did you compare this with? I have the higher end 11000 model and I don't think ES Pro can extract more shadow detail than my Scanmate. ScanMate's and any other drum scanner for that matter need to be finely calibrated and being out of calibration can make scans poor. If the light tube along with the optical path to the PMTs is not calibrated, the scanner will easily clip shadows and this may have been the case with your experience. There is also a trick to adjust exposure on the ScanMate's that not many people are aware of.

Based on my experience so far, scanmate and ES pro are pretty close in shadow performance from a detaile perspective but scanmate can pull true colors from the shadows where the ES pro tends to shift colors in the deepest shadows. That said, ES Pro is a fantastic scanner.

Ari and Jim, when do you get your scanners?

sanking

11-May-2016, 05:18

So one's computer could be optimal, but copying to USB will still be the weak link.
My scanner comes with a G4, not sure of its configuration yet; will a G5 make a noticeable difference, both in scanning speeds and in transfer speeds?

Scanning speed is limited by the 286 processor on the Eversmart board and any G4 Mac with a Power PC of 450 MHz or faster is way faster than a 286 so you won't get faster scans with a G5. To transfer data consider add a USB 2 card to the G4, much faster than the original USB. Most of the G4s also have Firewire ports, also quite fast.

Just max out your G4 with RAM and it should be very stable with OS 9.2.2 in running the Eversmart driver.

Fluid mounting is not worth the trouble IMO unless you will be making enlargments of 8X or more. Also, I don't believe there is much to gain by a vacuum bed, even if that could be made to work. I got really good results with the Eversmart Pro with the spring loaded glass and really doubt that you could improve on it without going to fluid mounting, and even then the gain is marginal.

Sandy

Ari

11-May-2016, 11:49

Sergey, Pali and Sandy - thank you.
After a brief chat with Michael at Genesis, I found that my ES Pro is not upgradeable to an ES Pro II, which would have permitted the use of more recent software and OSX.
It seems the cut-off year for that was 1998 and mine is 1997.
Not a big deal in the least, I just want good scans and a minima of fuss.
So everything said here today is very helpful; I do plan to max out the RAM, and modify anything else I can on the G4 (the G5 won't work with OS 9.2) to help speed up transfer times, including a USB 2.0 card.

Pali, the scanner has been shipped and has already arrived at the warehouse; I pick it up tomorrow, just in time to scan some new 8x10 colour negs.

Jim Andrada

11-May-2016, 20:53

Hi Pali. Mine is all ready to ship but I need a few more weeks to get the space ready. I think I should get it around the middle of June.

Pali K

11-May-2016, 21:34

That's great Ari and Jim. When you do get it, let me know if you need me to walk you through some of the calibration steps that I have been going through to fine tune the CCD head. After a few days of tinkering, I think I have mine calibrated the best I can and the resolution has improved noticeably.This is from a test scan I just made and I believe the scanner resolved it's promised 3175 DPI if not slightly more. I scanned this as 8000 DPI to give the scanner more than enough room to be able to pull all the optical resolution that it is capable of.

Based on this, I think the resolution is Element 2 under Block 6 which is rated at 3649 DPI! :D
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartPro/Comparison/SCAN_ESRES_8000DPI.jpg

Here is a link on how to read the target scan.
http://www.silverfast.com/PDF/resolution-target/Resolution-Target_long_en.pdf

Pali

SergeyT

11-May-2016, 23:43

I compared ES pro II scans with SM 5000
Both are calibrated and profiled.
BTW, profiling of an ES is not straight forward due to flare. I used Hatch Velvia target and had to manually repair Black (dark) patches that got polluted by light leaks from nearby White patches.

SergeyT

Ari

12-May-2016, 15:27

Got everything today, after a lot of driving, picking up and off-loading. The hardest part was getting the scanner downstairs, it's very heavy.
Everything is hooked up, and ready to go.
The scanner came fully loaded, it looks hardly used and all of the original manuals, slides, software discs, everything is there; very very complete. Even some blank masks and instructions for cutting them.

Pali, thank you, I'll send you an email. I'd like to know how to calibrate this as well as possible.

Jim Andrada

18-May-2016, 17:12

Hi Ari

Are you up and running yet?

Ari

18-May-2016, 22:46

Hi Ari

Are you up and running yet?
Sort of, Jim. I got the scanner hooked up and working quickly in order to complete a job, but now I'm away on business.
It survived the trip but with a few bumps, and next week I'll work on those along with some general calibration.
But overall, so far, it's been easy to use and early results look fantastic.
How's by you?

Jim Andrada

19-May-2016, 12:00

It's looking like I won't be able to get it installed until mid-June. I did something stupid and hurt my back so no heavy lifting for a few weeks, plus I have a bit of business travel coming up.

Luke79

20-May-2016, 01:58

Greetings guys.
I have an old g4 running a eversmart jazz+
Installed everything, working fine done some test scans
My only Problem is The exposure slider is grayed out
I cant seem to turn it on , but I would really need it cause the preview scan are really often overblown
Is there an Option somewhere to activate it?151071

Pali K

20-May-2016, 11:13

Hi Luke,

What software and version are you using? As you know, we have a different scanner but I will check for you when I am home later today. I don't recall having a feature to change exposure while scanning myself on the Eversmart ProII but I don't have enough experience with the software to know if the capability is there.

Pali

Ari

20-May-2016, 13:50

Is that from the White Point/Black Point menu?
If so, I think you first need to make an adjustment, then the slider will appear.
So, for example, choose your black point, then adjust the slider to fine-tune the black point.
I don't think it works as a stand-alone function.

bob carnie

20-May-2016, 13:55

If you are using Oxygen software, when scanning 16 bit you lose some of the options.

I find this software quite clumsy at first and over time find out how to use it. Not user friendly IMO.

Luke79

21-May-2016, 04:41

Thank you guys
I am using eversmart scan 2.5.1 that came with the jazz+ on my g4. I have an old Tiger System running on it too but i dont know if there is a Software for it
Yes its in the Black and White end points Window
I tried to Set the White and Black points but it is still grayed out
I can only move the dark and White density sliders

Is there a way to get a Newer Software Version

Luke79

21-May-2016, 04:46

151085

Luke79

21-May-2016, 04:53

The end points are Set to Auto normal in the setup Dialog
And the Option to Change them is grayed out . Cant change them there , so the table in the Black and White end point Window always stays at Auto normal
Is there a way to Set it on Manual or fo i need an Experten Mode or something 151086

Luke79

21-May-2016, 04:55

151087

Luke79

21-May-2016, 04:56

151088

Luke79

21-May-2016, 07:06

Jpg

Pali K

21-May-2016, 18:39

Luke,

On my Evertsmart Pro II with Eversmart Scan 3.0, I am able to change the setting without having to do anything special. I did a preview scan, selected a crop, clicked on End Points and was able to make the exposure adjustments.

I am sorry but I don't know if I can help here much. Could it possible that the Jazz doesn't have this setting?

Pali

Luke79

22-May-2016, 00:41

Thank you paly , I have preview scaned. Took a crop and selected the end points but sadly still grayed out
Is it possible to get the Newer Software Version somewhere?

Paly is your table Set to Auto normal?

SergeyT

22-May-2016, 11:09

If I remember correctly the Exposure has never worked (was unavailable) with Jazz+. Even with the latest oXYgen. All Eversmarts have shared a lot of common components and to compensate for the price difference some of the features had to be disabled in the lower-end models.
It is not a big deal and I suspect it is not hardware based anyway.
For accurate scans one has to create an ICC profile and after that carefully choose a White point value by selecting and measuring a variety of bright spots on prescan.
Usually a correct value for White point and disabling sharpenning all it took to get the best out of an Eversmart.

bob carnie

22-May-2016, 11:32

I have to agree with Sergey

I have a Eversmart Supreme and once I disable the sharpening I am getting very good colour balance density .
I will go in and make sure I am getting as much information on both ends, rarely will I have to adjust colour contrast as this I leave for PS.

I used Micheal Streeter in Michigan when purchasing my unit and he offers great service and is very reliable , I would highly recommend him.

I am still getting use to small film setups on my unit and I have never used the wet mount station I purchased with the unit.

If I remember correctly the Exposure has never worked (was unavailable) with Jazz+. Even with the latest oXYgen. All Eversmarts have shared a lot of common components and to compensate for the price difference some of the features had to be disabled in the lower-end models.
It is not a big deal and I suspect it is not hardware based anyway.
For accurate scans one has to create an ICC profile and after that carefully choose a White point value by selecting and measuring a variety of bright spots on prescan.
Usually a correct value for White point and disabling sharpenning all it took to get the best out of an Eversmart.

Pali K

22-May-2016, 12:33

bob carnie

23-May-2016, 06:57

Quick answer no.

Not sure why you would need one, the controls are within the software (Oxygen) to pretty much colour correct though clumsy they work. I have not seen the need.

Sergie and Bob, do you recall the steps for creating an ICC profile to use within the software? At the moment, I have created a color calibration profile that is applied to scanned file in Photoshop vs. directly in the Eversmart Scan software. I did some looking around but didn't see a calibration process within the software.

Ari

23-May-2016, 10:10

Usually a correct value for White point and disabling sharpenning all it took to get the best out of an Eversmart.

In my very brief time with the scanner, I've found this to be true.
My only problem is that the preview image is quite small, and the computer screen is also small, so getting the pointer on a specific tiny spot is hard to control and repeat.
Any suggestions?

SergeyT

23-May-2016, 22:32

Sergie and Bob, do you recall the steps for creating an ICC profile to use within the software? At the moment, I have created a color calibration profile that is applied to scanned file in Photoshop vs. directly in the Eversmart Scan software. I did some looking around but didn't see a calibration process within the software.

Some older Eversmart Scans did not support ICC workflow. If my memory serves me well support for ICC workflow was introduced in ES Scan v 3.x or any version of oXYgen.
My typical workflow was to scan a target (White point set at the White target patch with values at around 248-254, no clipping in any of RGB, Dark Point - auto; no Sharpening). Make a set of profiles using different profiling SW such as i1Match, i1Profiler, Lprof(free), etc...
Make the profiles available in Eversmart Scan.
Prescan the transparency or Color neg .
Set White Point, Apply one of the input profiles that I made, whatever works best. Fine tune the White Point
Set No Sharpening
Scan into ProPhotoRGB

The difference between applying input profile in ES Scan vs Photoshop is that the conversion is done in 16 bit vs 8 bit.

SergeyT

23-May-2016, 22:46

Quick answer no.

Not sure why you would need one, the controls are within the software (Oxygen) to pretty much colour correct though clumsy they work. I have not seen the need.

With the Supreme or any other that supports DT (RAW) scan I would scan just into DT at full optical and nothing else. It makes the scan fully automatic, free from operator's errors.
The actual conversion or repurposing from DT to an RGB can be done at later time by opening that DT scan in oXYgen and applying required settings, such as sharpening, white point, resolution, input and output profiles, etc. As one can imagine it is open to endless interpretations of the scan without actual re-scans. As an added benefit of DT workflow, one can work on a preview at a 100% optical, vs tiny prescan.
And yes, ICC profiling is still very beneficial even for a Supreme.
Simply scan your target at 600dpi into DT. Open that DT in oXYgen and convert to RGB by specifying a desired value for White point and no output profile. You can make quite a few conversions from the same DT each time with a different value for White point and build a set of profiles to be used for original with different density.

SergeyT.

Evanjoe610

31-May-2016, 05:31

Hi Luke,

Are you using 2.51 OR 3.5.1 on OSX?
3.5.1 is the very last version for the Jazz series.
The Jazz + is a far better scanner than the plain Jazz.
On par with the Eversmart Pro (original model)

The later upgrade to Pro II has set the Pro II to a different level.
I sold a Jazz & a Jazz II to Michael Streeter.

Currently using Eversmart Pro II on OX10.5.8 Leopard with a Ratoc FRS1X with 2.6.3 software.
Also have an Imacon Flextight Precision II/III using a Ratoc FRS1X on OSx Leopard too.

Evan

Thank you guys
I am using eversmart scan 2.5.1 that came with the jazz+ on my g4. I have an old Tiger System running on it too but i dont know if there is a Software for it
Yes its in the Black and White end points Window
I tried to Set the White and Black points but it is still grayed out
I can only move the dark and White density sliders

Is there a way to get a Newer Software Version

Ari

8-Aug-2016, 08:04

Here's a minor dilemma:
I use a spare bottle filled with distilled water for cleaning the scanner glass; I spray the water onto a Photex scanner wipe.
The bottle, I found out, may or may not have been used previously with orange oil (a few drops in one later of water).
I can see the top glass plate has a slight smudge-y thing, possibly from the oil.
It shows up on scans as a purplish smear, see photo:
https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8199/28773439421_d1e3010044.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KQBp68)

I'm going to try and clean this later today, was wondering if anyone has had this experience or can make any suggestions before I clean.
Thanks

Ari

8-Aug-2016, 12:54

I got it.
After cleaning both sides of each glass plate, I replaced the same negatives on the glass, and got the same result on the same neg.
Then I moved the negs around and - hello, hello - the purple haze was on the negative.
Whew!
Now I need to find out why my recent batches of film had something similar on all of them.
I used Acros 120 with HC-110, a combination I've trusted for a few years now, and one from which I've never gotten this effect before.
Off to the darkroom sub-forum!

wasiraj032

22-Aug-2016, 23:37

Thanks for explaining. It sounds really kool but I think how will do with filling in emulsion pores and any fine scratches. i too have no experiance

Pali K

18-Jul-2017, 08:59

I just wrote a quick blog on how to get best color negative scans from older models that only work on Eversmart Scan software under OS 9.2. Here is a link and hopefully this helps someone.

http://www.analogfilm.camera/2017/07/18/scanning-color-negatives-with-eversmart-pro-scanner-using-eversmart-scan/

Pali

Ari

18-Jul-2017, 10:08

Very helpful, thanks Pali.
I noticed that your first dialog box was set to "Positive". Is that intentional?
167368

Pali K

18-Jul-2017, 10:29

Ari, yes that is intentional. I scan everything as Positives and leave the editing for Photoshop. Also keep in mind that the software only gives you the option to manually select ICC profiles when you are scanning in Positive mode. If you haven't already done this, I think you'll be quite excited about the change in quality of your color scans :)

Pali

Ari

18-Jul-2017, 10:35

Wow, thank you, Pali.
I have yet to unlock all the mysteries of the software, I use it sparingly these days (too busy with other things).

Ari

18-Jul-2017, 11:39

Pali, one more question:
Is there any practical advantage in scanning B&W negs this way?

SergeyT

18-Jul-2017, 12:13

That is interesting Pali :)
It's been awhile since I touched an Eversmart but if remember correctly for the 8-bit output I either kept the scan in the original ESx color space and later converted into the working (ProPhoto) one in Photoshop or imported the ProPhoto into ES Scan and used it as output profile. I think both worked...
And BTW in New Color the endpoints set to 32;250 work perfectly for Portra (400 and 160VC) and Ektar.

As to scanning B&W in color mode I always do that as naturally scanner sees in color and having the original info in all 3 channels reduces the risk of banding during image data manipulation (editing and profile conversions). When done with editing just lay over a Channel Mixer layer with Gray Scale checked in PS.

Pali K

18-Jul-2017, 17:08

Pali, one more question:
Is there any practical advantage in scanning B&W negs this way?

Ari, I am not sure as I haven't done any comparative BW scans but definitely did about 50+ comparative color negative scans. It is possible that you might get better scans purely because of the AdobeRGB color space vs. sRGB that mine assigns by default. I do invert my BW using ColorPerfect as well because it has a nifty feature to do fine tuning adjustments based on Zones for BW editing mode.

That is interesting Pali :)
It's been awhile since I touched an Eversmart but if remember correctly for the 8-bit output I either kept the scan in the original ESx color space and later converted into the working (ProPhoto) one in Photoshop or imported the ProPhoto into ES Scan and used it as output profile. I think both worked...
And BTW in New Color the endpoints set to 32;250 work perfectly for Portra (400 and 160VC) and Ektar.

As to scanning B&W in color mode I always do that as naturally scanner sees in color and having the original info in all 3 channels reduces the risk of banding during image data manipulation (editing and profile conversions). When done with editing just lay over a Channel Mixer layer with Gray Scale checked in PS.

Thank you Sergey for the note about NewColor. I played quite a bit with that as well for my Tango and have yet to nail down the perfect settings for Color Perfect. Once I do, I'll post a write up on my workflow for Tango as well. I am not missing much as my Scanmate 11000 gets everything just perfect for Color Negatives. I am turning into such a scanner hoarder :)

Pali K

8-Mar-2018, 20:55

So I "accidentally" bought an Eversmart Supreme scanner and just got it to work. These Scitex/Creo/Kodak scanners are just unbelievable in what they can do and the 16 BIT output from the Supreme is pure magic. If it weren't for the flare around high contrast scenes, these scanners pretty much match my drum scanners from practical use standpoint.

Here is the same 8x10 Velvia 50 scan from ES Supreme that I posted from Scanmate 11000 and ES Pro earlier.

http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartSupreme/ES_Suorene_8x10Velvia_1_1_DT_PS850px.jpg
Link to higher resolution scan. (http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartSupreme/ES_Suorene_8x10Velvia_1_1_DT_PS.jpg)

And the resolution test which seems to be resolving over 5700 DPI.

http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartSupreme/ES_Supreme_ResCrop.jpg

Pali

MOW

12-Mar-2018, 04:57

If Eversmart Supreme flares a lot there might be just too much dust accumulated on ccd, anti-blooming glass over ccd, mirrors (3), and lens surfaces. My own Supreme was really dirty when I got it and flaring was easy to spot. Cleaning made big difference but it is somewhat tedious process.

P.S. You got very good Supreme when I look your resolution target scan. Mine yields one notch lower result.

Juergen Cullmann

12-Mar-2018, 15:27

I have the same problem with flare. How can I clean all mentioned parts in my Supreme. Is there a manuel or guidance? My Supreme has a notch lower resolution too.

Pali K

12-Mar-2018, 17:38

Thank you MOW and Juergen. I have cleaned the optics on my ES PRO before but haven't attempted it on the Supreme just yet. When I do, I will be sure to take pictures and post the process for everyone else. There is an ES Pro Optics cleaning guide available at the following link that walks through the basic process but keep in mind that the supreme has some additional cooling parts that I don't know if and how they impact this process.

http://www.fredturro.com/clients/834/fichiers/userfiles/files/ESOpticsCleaningPro.pdf

Pali

MOW

13-Mar-2018, 05:18

Cleaning Supreme is not much different than Pro. It is more complex system so a bit more time consuming to clean. You got to move carrier on middle to get screws opened on the cover of the carrier. There are 4 screws and you need to do this moving of carrier twice since you can't open all the screws at once (they are too separate to get opened from glass handle at once).

Cleaning of front mirror is similar as in Pro. Then there is a moving mirror which is not really getting dirty as it is upside down (I never removed this mirror, too complicated. I just cleaned while it was in place). Below back mirror is ccd anti-blooming glass that is removed by just pulling it out from the small handle it has. And then you can remove back mirror by opening the spring (similar as in front mirror) and taking it out (this is a bit more difficult than front mirror and small risk to damaging it if clumsy).

Then you got access to to clean ccd head. I used long q-tips for cleaning it and flashlight.

So light path is following: light goes first to front mirror, then it goes through lens and to back mirror when it is reflected to moving mirror where it continues through anti-blooming glass to ccd.

You also should check fans in CCD head. There are 3 fans on it and they all need to work well as Peltier element is hot on other side. I heard whole CCD head can go broken if these fans fail...

Pali K

16-Mar-2018, 17:31

So cleaning the Supreme turned out to be a fairly simple process since I already had experience with the Pro. I also didn't take any pictures because it's exactly the same as the document I linked to earlier. I only cleaned the mirrors and used air spray on the lens and this is what I get now. The flare is almost gone and the resolution has improved as well. Cleaning the CCD is more involved and very well protected from dust on the Supreme so I decided to skip this step and I am convinced it wouldn't have helped much.

http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/media/pictures/scans/EversmartSupreme/ESSup_Res_AftClean_DT.jpg

FYI, this is a DT scan with no color profile and sharpness applied during or post scan.

Pali

SURF

22-Mar-2018, 04:27

Cleaning the CCD is more involved and very well protected from dust on the Supreme so I decided to skip this step and I am convinced it wouldn't have helped much.

It depends... CCD is cooled and condensate. On mine it was very dirty. From experience cleaning CCD on Eversmarts makes the most difference.

And this pic demonstrate what I don't like in Eversmarts. Look at number 4: 11 pixels vertical shift! It shreds the image IMO. (That's from your tests above.)

Pali K

22-Mar-2018, 17:48

It depends... CCD is cooled and condensate. On mine it was very dirty. From experience cleaning CCD on Eversmarts makes the most difference.

And this pic demonstrate what I don't like in Eversmarts. Look at number 4: 11 pixels vertical shift! It shreds the image IMO. (That's from your tests above.)

Thanks for the additional information SURF. I may get it to in the future and will report my findings here as always. BTW, the resolution tests may not be apple to apples in both tests because my scanner lid needed some adjustments so the glass held the negative (resolution test in this case) perfectly flat. 2nd image was after I fixed the lid. I do still understand the issue and agree that it's a bit annoying. I also did some additional tests to compare flare with a drum scanner, and when you compare side by side - the drum scan is much better but I think that is to be expected.

Pali

Pali K

2-Apr-2018, 17:41

I have spent some time calibrating my ES Supreme and ran a test to compare it with a typical output from the Tango. Both of these scanners are calibrated using an IT8 target and here is what both produce with nothing but levels adjustment for black and white points and some minor dust clean up. Sharing this for those who are interested to know what these scanners can do.

Left is ES Supreme and right is Tango. The green background on the Tango matches the slide but ES Supreme is slightly off and it could be that my calibration profile needs additional tuning.

http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/EversmartSupreme/ES%20Supreme%20and%20Tango%20Comparison.jpg