4x5 developing tanks?

[santoroman]

So I have yet to develop my 4x5 BW negs at home yet. I've been looking at different setups but wanted to know what everyone else uses? I can get them developed for $3 a sheet but I'd rather just do them at home. Was thinking trays but then I noticed the bathroom has more holes than swiss cheese. Thoughts?

santo

[eli]

Nikor 4x5 tank and a good changing tent should do it.

Where do you load your filmholders?

[santoroman]

Right now a changing bag that's too small. I've been looking at the photoflex changing tent be each time I go to buy it...out of stock till June. The bag will have to do right now. thanks for the info on the tank.

[koraks]

I've been using a Mod54 in the appropriate Paterson tank. Works like a charm for regular film. Not so appropriate for double sided xray film, but I prefer to develop that in trays anyway.

[tchosss]

I'm using Combi plan 4x5 developing tank, and am very satisfied. You can develop 6 sheets at time, consumes about 1.2liter of chemicals.

[barnacle]

Combiplan 4x5 tank here too (1.05 litres for 4x5, but it does I think 4x6 also), and a Paterson rotary 8x10 tray that takes four 4x5. Take 150cc...

Neil

[Kyle M.]

I'm a big fan of the MOD54, once you get used to loading it it's pretty simple. I have a large dark bag and I place a cardboard box inside open side towards me to support it so I can work without the top of the bag laying on my hands.

[vdonovan]

Another vote for Mod54. When I use it for x-ray film, I fix the sheets for a few minutes extra in a tray.

I lucked into one of these. It's great for loading 4x5 film holders and loading the Mod54:
http://www.adorama.com/pfcr.html

[Light Guru]

The mod54 is perfect for stand development, but sheets of film will easily come loose and mess up the developing with agitation.

[Bill Kumpf]

I still like BTZS tubes. Good online demo. Great support.

[Alan9940]

If you decide to go the tank route, I use a B&W King 4x5 tank that's basically like the old Nikkor 4x5 tank; these old Nikkors are very hard to come by and not cheap. The B&W King tank is sold on eBay. I had a little trouble figuring out how to get totally uniform development, but after a bit of playing with different agitation techniques I'm now very happy with my results. If you're not in a hurry to get something, there will be a new 4x5 tank coming out called SP-445; a Kickstarter campaign from a few months ago.

[jp]

Combiplan here mostly. I also have the mod54 and it worked fine, but I was already using the combiplan and haven't needed to change. 6 sheets at a time is good.

I'd think BTZS or Jobo would be good rotary options.

[Huub]

Some Jobo 2500 tanks here with a couple of 2509n reels, used in rotary processing. Never looked back since i got them.

[fishbulb]

There are tons of options. They all have their pros and cons. The only ones that are really difficult are the old bakelite Yankee (and similar) tanks, which can process 12 sheets, but it's pretty hard to get even development.

I use the Nikor tank myself. Nikor design is very efficient with chemistry but is more difficult to get consistent results - although certainly not impossible. You just have to follow the instructions and do less agitation, longer development. Combiplan or Mod54 use more chemistry per sheet but are easier to get good results, basically because there is more space between each sheet.

BTZS tubes and Jobo tanks produce very clean results and are very efficient with chemistry, but require constant rotation of the tank to keep the developer moving (constant agitation basically). I use BTZS tubes sometimes but they take up a bit more space and I get bored doing to constant agitation. But, very clean results every time.

[Bob Salomon]

There are tons of options. They all have their pros and cons. The only ones that are really difficult are the old bakelite Yankee (and similar) tanks, which can process 12 sheets, but it's pretty hard to get even development.

I use the Nikor tank myself. Nikor design is very efficient with chemistry but is more difficult to get consistent results - although certainly not impossible. You just have to follow the instructions and do less agitation, longer development. Combiplan or Mod54 use more chemistry per sheet but are easier to get good results, basically because there is more space between each sheet.

BTZS tubes and Jobo tanks produce very clean results and are very efficient with chemistry, but require constant rotation of the tank to keep the developer moving (constant agitation basically). I use BTZS tubes sometimes but they take up a bit more space and I get bored doing to constant agitation. But, very clean results every time.

And some, like the Combiplan can do everything but loading the film in full room light. Others, like the Nikor require complete darkness when changing chemistry and other might require complete darkness for all steps. Some like the Combiplan require as little space as a piece of 57 film for all steps, others might require the better part of a bench top or a sink.
The Combiplan becomes a forced film washer by simply attaching a hose to the bottom connector. The others require that you get a film washer.

[Alan9940]

And some, like the Combiplan can do everything but loading the film in full room light. Others, like the Nikor require complete darkness when changing chemistry and other might require complete darkness for all steps. Some like the Combiplan require as little space as a piece of 57 film for all steps, others might require the better part of a bench top or a sink.
The Combiplan becomes a forced film washer by simply attaching a hose to the bottom connector. The others require that you get a film washer.

The B&W King (basically, a Nikkor clone) tank requires complete darkness only for loading. Once the reel is sealed in the tank, all chemical steps are done in normal room light just like 120/35mm. And, since it's a stainless steel tank it's pretty easy to maintain proper chemical temps with a simple water bath. Like fishbulb said, the key to obtaining even development is less frequent and gentle agitation cycles which will demand slightly longer development times. I don't wash the film in the tank; rather soak in a tray of water with a few water changes. IMO, if you want to play with agitation techniques such as stand or semi-stand development, an enclosed light proof tank is the way to go.

[vdonovan]

The mod54 is perfect for stand development, but sheets of film will easily come loose and mess up the developing with agitation.

Hmmm. I've developed a hundred or so sheets with the Mod54 and I've never had a sheet come loose. Maybe I'm a timid agitator.

[photonsoup]

I started with a combiplan, made my own btzs type tubes from ABS pipe, tried trays, and now use a Jobo with lift. I just got a PhotoTherm processor but haven't set it up yet.

Of the first three I definatly prefer the combiplan. Can be done with a dark bag or tent.

Any of the Jobo tanks would be the same amount of effort to do by hand as the combiplan. If you don't have the processor, they could easily be spun in a sink of water in full daylight. The 2521 and2820 are the same thing they will hold two sheets around the outside of the drum using as little as 40ml of fluid. They also hold a reel that will do 6 sheets of film, I've not done that. A 2830 will hold up to 4 sheets around the outside using 100ml, but is difficult to load. The 3010 will hold up to 10 sheets using as little as 210ml of fluid. You may need to use more in order to have enough chemistry per sheet to properly do the job.

[Kyle M.]

Hmmm. I've developed a hundred or so sheets with the Mod54 and I've never had a sheet come loose. Maybe I'm a timid agitator.

I had it happen the first time and then I started agitating by moving the tank in a figure 8 pattern in front of me rather than inverting and didn't have any issues. Then I got real smart. I put some real thin tape on the center column from my Paterson tank and pushed the MOD54 on so it would be a tight fit, then I put a rubber band over the spout of the funnel where it meets the column. This way the MOD54 can't spin in the tank, I then bought a Uniroller base and now use that for developing my 4x5. And I am very pleased with it.

[Wayne]

I'm a fan of black visqueen and trays. Enough of the former can make any room dark enough to use the latter.

[Randy]

Been processing in trays for many years. Cover holes and / or wait until it is dark outside.

[Duolab123]

If you are not going to develop a lot, trays to start. I still have my Kodak hard rubber 1/2 gallon tans and hangers, can be had for next to nothing. I use Jobo 2509n reels. I cheat and use IR googles makes it fool proof.
I've used the SS Nikor sheets tanks, hard to get used to, work great if you can load. You need to make sure to adjust, Nikor put little graduation marks on the vertical rails so you could adjust to all the standard sheet sizes as well as pack films. In my 59 year old hands I would want ir goggles to load.
If you decide to go with Jobo reels it's gonna cost couple hundred.
I'm with Randy, start with trays or some old hangers and deep tanks.
I'm spoiled now I use a Jobo processor with a lift and the 2509n reels, perfect. The Expert tanks are perfection but out of my budget (for now)
Development is the best part of film!
Have fun, Best Regards Mike

[santoroman]

Once our garage is finished I'll be able to setup a mini darkroom in the corner.

[santoroman]

If you are not going to develop a lot, trays to start. I still have my Kodak hard rubber 1/2 gallon tans and hangers, can be had for next to nothing. I use Jobo 2509n reels. I cheat and use IR googles makes it fool proof.
I've used the SS Nikor sheets tanks, hard to get used to, work great if you can load. You need to make sure to adjust, Nikor put little graduation marks on the vertical rails so you could adjust to all the standard sheet sizes as well as pack films. In my 59 year old hands I would want ir goggles to load.
If you decide to go with Jobo reels it's gonna cost couple hundred.
I'm with Randy, start with trays or some old hangers and deep tanks.
I'm spoiled now I use a Jobo processor with a lift and the 2509n reels, perfect. The Expert tanks are perfection but out of my budget (for now)
Development is the best part of film!
Have fun, Best Regards Mike


I had a Jobo system in high school (20 years ago) since then I was dip tanking in college and after school it was all developed at a lab. $3 a sheet is not bad but I really like having the control and since there are so little people in the Seattle developing 4x5...I think it's time to just bit the bullet and make my little man cave in the garage. Tray's will prob come first then I'll make the jump to something more fancy...or maybe not. thanks

santo

[tonyowen]

For 4x5 processing I use Jobo 2500 tank plus 2509/2509N reel. The 2509N can be used successfully without the wings.
Also the 2500 tank with the 2502 reel can be for 35mm, 6x6, 6x9 processing, whilst the 2509/2509n can be used for 9x12 and 4x5 sheet film.
Easily handled inside a changing bag
Uses a small amount of chemicals 270ml for single reel.
regards
Tony

[IanG]

I've used JOBO 2000 developing tanks since 1976, mine both take two reels each holding 6 sheets of 5x4 film. These pre-date Jobo's rotary processors & tanks and are designed for Inversion processing.

Ian

[Neil Purling]

I have a Fink-Roselieve tank which looks like it can take several formats like 4x5, quarter-plate and 2x3. It is similar to the Yankee, except that the film sheets stand in 'portrait' format, wheras in the Yankee they are 'landscape'. Thus the Yankee needs less solution.
Mine does hold 12 sheets, but I have had issues with even developing. Therefore I don't try and develope more than six at a time.
With some films' like the print stuff I add 1ml of wetting agent to the developer to ensure there are no pin-holes & that is after doing a pre-soak.
I will be doing the same when I start developing X-ray film.

[Alan9940]

Just to clarify because I read somewhere in this thread that the Nikkor reel can be adjusted, the reel for the B&W King tank is made (sized) strictly for 4x5 and is not adjustable.

[santoroman]

I think it's just going to come down to me buying one or two different types and seeing which one I like. Love the Jobo system by I have a feeling the wife my take one of my nuts off when she finds out which one I want. I kinda like my boys. They make me who I am...
santo

[AtlantaTerry]

Let me add my two cents here...

For small / short runs of 4x5" B&W film, I use an HPcombiPlan. It works great.

For larger runs I use Kodak #4A stainless steel racks in 116 ounce plastic tubs that I (finally) found! They were at Dollar Tree stores. Yes, everything until the fixer bath has to be done in total darkness but I've been developing film since 1955 so that really does not bother me a bit.

I can comfortably fit 10 of the Kodak racks into a tub. If I feel lucky, I can cram a dozen racks in but normally, I don't like to take a chance.

One trick I use with the Kodak racks is to wrap a large rubber band around the bunch. Otherwise what happens in the dark they want to splay out because I'm holding them by the bar across the top. When they splay out it is very easy for one of the racks to miss being inserted into a bath.

My "darkroom" is my bathroom. I block the window with black foamcore boards that I cut to fit. Being a belt and suspenders kind of guy I also cover the window with blackout fabric that I bought at Joann's Fabric Store. I hang the fabric from a simple curtain rod that I also bought at the store. On each end of the curtain rod I tied a length of Nylon fishing line. I hammered in a small finishing nail at the top left and right corners of the wooden window frame. When I'm assembling the darkroom, I loop the fishing line over the top of the window frame. The nails are simply there to keep the fishing line from rolling off. It takes about 30 minutes to set up the darkroom then about the same amount of time to put everything away.

To dry the processed sheets of film, I bought a nylon rope from a Dollar Tree store then tied knots in it about 2 inches apart. (The knots prevent the Kodak racks from sliding down hill then bumping into the next wet sheet of film.) I hang the rope above the bathtub - one end goes over the basket of bath items hanging from the shower head and the other end attaches to the towel rack above the far end of the tub. There is a stainless steel "S" hook tied into each end of the rope to facilitate setting up and breaking down.

When the chemistry and equipment are not being used, I store everything in two large grey "flip top" stacking plastic tubs from Home Depot.

[Deval]

Google ssp45 Kickstart er project that looks good

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Alan9940]

Google ssp45 Kickstart er project that looks good

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Just so there's no confusion...it's SP-445.

[fishbulb]

And some, like the Combiplan can do everything but loading the film in full room light. Others, like the Nikor require complete darkness when changing chemistry and other might require complete darkness for all steps. Some like the Combiplan require as little space as a piece of 57 film for all steps, others might require the better part of a bench top or a sink.
The Combiplan becomes a forced film washer by simply attaching a hose to the bottom connector. The others require that you get a film washer.

Some clarification here... the Combiplan is good but it's not that different in how it's used versus other daylight tanks like Nikor, Patterson/Mod54, BW King, Yankee, FR, Jobo 2500 etc.

1) These tanks can all do everything in full light except loading the film.

2) These tanks aren't significantly bigger or smaller than a Combiplan.

3) These tanks can also be used as a film washer, as long as you have a rubber hose that you can put into the tank.

The exceptions to the above three points would be open-top tanks with hangars, tray processing, or tube processing.

[Bob Salomon]

Some clarification here... the Combiplan is good but it's not that different in how it's used versus other daylight tanks like Nikor, Patterson/Mod54, BW King, Yankee, FR, Jobo 2500 etc.

1) These tanks can all do everything in full light except loading the film.

2) These tanks aren't significantly bigger or smaller than a Combiplan.

3) These tanks can also be used as a film washer, as long as you have a rubber hose that you can put into the tank.

The exceptions to the above three points would be open-top tanks with hangars, tray processing, or tube processing.

Obviously you have never used the Combi tank or, if you did, you did, you did not follow the directions. The Combiplan T tank is designed for inversion agitation with a specific amount of chemistry (printed on the inside top cover) that allows the chemistry to flow over the film so fresh chemistry is in contact with the film with each inversion cycle. The proper technique is to invert the tank and wait for the chemistry to stop flowing then reinvent it. Do this for as long as the recommended agitation time. Very few, if any, other tank used this system.
Actually originally there were two different HP Combiplan or Gepe Combiplan or originally Krause Combiplan systems. One was the one that has been sold since 1983, the Combiplan T daylight system with all steps, except for loading the film, carried out in room light. The other was the Combiplan L system, discontinued in 1983, for use in a darkroom with multiple tanks, one for each chemical step. The L system did not have a light tight lid and was designed for people that wanted to use a rack type system. Until 1983 both were available in 45 and 57 sizes. In 1983 all 57 versions and the 45 L system as well as all Combiplan 35 and 120/220 systems were discontinued.

Additionally all Combiplan T tanks were equipped with 2 light tight hose connectors that could simply accept standard push on hoses for washing, putting the hose into the tank and turning on water is not the safest way to wash film. The Combiplan allowed washing by connecting to either the hose connector in the top or to the one in the bottom. For the darkroom only version a simpler, non light tight hose connector screwed into the bottom of one side of the tank for washing in the tank.

Again, that was not a possibility on any of the other tanks.

Lastly, how would you change chemistry in room light with the Nikor, FR, Yankeetank? Sorry I have not seen the BW King tank.

However I just visited their site and they print some caveats in their instructions. The most glaring was the following:

"2. Developing fixing (recommended to operate under low light)". Obviously this is not like the Combiplan that operates in full room light. There was also a warning that since the film is strongly curved in there reel film in the tank for prolonged time could lose flatness. The Combi film rack keeps either sheet film or glass plates flat during all steps. There were other operational warnings regarding leakage.

[Alan9940]

Lastly, how would you change chemistry in room light with the Nikor, FR, Yankeetank? Sorry I have not seen the BW King tank.

However I just visited their site and they print some caveats in their instructions. The most glaring was the following:

"2. Developing fixing (recommended to operate under low light)". Obviously this is not like the Combiplan that operates in full room light. There was also a warning that since the film is strongly curved in there reel film in the tank for prolonged time could lose flatness. The Combi film rack keeps either sheet film or glass plates flat during all steps. There were other operational warnings regarding leakage.

Bob,

I use my B&W King tank in full roomlight, in my kitchen, with bright sunlight bouncing off the white pool deck just outside my kitchen window; i.e., my kitchen is pretty bright during the day. Once it's loaded with film in the dark, I process just like I would with any 35/120 tank. I suppose that since the lid is designed such that the reel can be rotated with the cap, it might be possible for light to leak into the tank but I've never had any problem. As for leaking, I run a single layer of electrical tape around the cap/tank seam and never had a leak.

The warning of film being strongly curved in the reel and losing flatness puzzles me. I typically load film into the reel and get the tank ready the night before I'm going to process. Sometime the next morning I process the film--so we're talking, say, 20 - 30 mins max for most developers I use--and then I wash the film off reel. So, the film is in the reel about 12 - 15 hours and it's always flat when dry.

[Bob Salomon]

Bob,

I use my B&W King tank in full roomlight, in my kitchen, with bright sunlight bouncing off the white pool deck just outside my kitchen window; i.e., my kitchen is pretty bright during the day. Once it's loaded with film in the dark, I process just like I would with any 35/120 tank. I suppose that since the lid is designed such that the reel can be rotated with the cap, it might be possible for light to leak into the tank but I've never had any problem. As for leaking, I run a single layer of electrical tape around the cap/tank seam and never had a leak.

The warning of film being strongly curved in the reel and losing flatness puzzles me. I typically load film into the reel and get the tank ready the night before I'm going to process. Sometime the next morning I process the film--so we're talking, say, 20 - 30 mins max for most developers I use--and then I wash the film off reel. So, the film is in the reel about 12 - 15 hours and it's always flat when dry.

Ask their web site why they made these comments in their instructions.

[fishbulb]

Bob, it's obvious that you are a Combiplan fan. We're just trying to correct the record on some of your statements on the other tanks. We are not criticizing Combiplan, which is a great product.


Lastly, how would you change chemistry in room light with the Nikor, FR, Yankeetank? Sorry I have not seen the BW King tank.

All the tanks operate under the same principle. There is an opening at the top where you dump chemistry in or out of the tank. It is light tight because there are folding layers of metal/plastic underneath that prevent any meaningful amount of light from traveling into the tank, while allowing liquids to flow. The idea is the same whether they are 135, 120, or 4x5 tanks.


However I just visited their site and they print some caveats in their instructions. The most glaring was the following:

"2. Developing fixing (recommended to operate under low light)". Obviously this is not like the Combiplan that operates in full room light. There was also a warning that since the film is strongly curved in there reel film in the tank for prolonged time could lose flatness. The Combi film rack keeps either sheet film or glass plates flat during all steps. There were other operational warnings regarding leakage.

I have never found one that leaks light. I have used Nikor, FR, Yankee, Patterson and Jobo daylight tanks in full room light with no issues. I don't know why they say that in their instructions, except probably to hedge their liability.

Whether the film comes out curved depends on the tank design. Tanks that hold film straight/ish (Yankee, FR, Mod54) will not curve the film much if at all. Nikor-type designs will curve your film but it flattens out again during the drying process.

Personally, since I am scanning with a drum scanner (pressing the film against a curved drum with a sheet of mylar) I don't mind if it's curved. But it could be a concern for people using enlargers if they can't get their film to flatten out again.

[Duolab123]

Jobo 1st choice, Perfect, reels or expert tanks, any process etc.

Short on funds (nearly free these days) 1/2 gal hard rubber tanks and hangers. I wouldn't try developing E-6 (These worked great with E-3 @ 75F)

I had the Nikor sheet film tanks ... Sold @ a small profit, this is the best thing I can say about them. But they worked fine.

Washing film is 10x changes of water. If you want to get rid of the purple dye in TMAX use sodium sulfite or Hypo Clear

Every method described here works, I picked up a Jobo CPP2 w lift. I always thought these were silly back in the day. NOW I LOVE IT.

[bw-king]

Bob,I use my B&W King tank in full roomlight, in my kitchen, with bright sunlight bouncing off the white pool deck just outside my kitchen window; i.e., my kitchen is pretty bright during the day. Once it's loaded with film in the dark, I process just like I would with any 35/120 tank. I suppose that since the lid is designed such that the reel can be rotated with the cap, it might be possible for light to leak into the tank but I've never had any problem. As for leaking, I run a single layer of electrical tape around the cap/tank seam and never had a leak.
The warning of film being strongly curved in the reel and losing flatness puzzles me. ... ...

Ask their web site why they made these comments in their instructions.

Thank you for your concern for B&W KING and discussed.
B&W KING from design to finished product, I spent more than six years.Website is also my own editor.
I itself is a photographer, to mechanical design, website design and I am not an expert, so there will be a mistake.
In the product introduction of web site, I in "placement took cause damage to its flatness.", is a prompt "Placing the film into the tank core is only suitable for a short period of time".
It now appears that this tip there is no need too much.As a professional photographer, it is not forgotten in developing the film to tin, placed a long time.
Recently, I want to rewrite the English writings of the website, modify the error.
In addition to start filming B&W KING developing tank installation operation video film, on the web site links, and send to the purchase and use B&W KING photographer friends from all countries, in order to correctly guide operation method, reduce mistakes.
B&W KING is a new product, I hope that more countries photographer friends, to know it and love it.
At the same time also wish you a photographer to use experience and critical feedback.
thank you

151044

151043

151045

[bw-man]

Lastly, how would you change chemistry in room light with the Nikor, FR, Yankeetank? Sorry I have not seen the BW King tank.
However I just visited their site and they print some caveats in their instructions. The most glaring was the following:
"2. Developing fixing (recommended to operate under low light)". Obviously this is not like the Combiplan that operates in full room light. There was also a warning that since the film is strongly curved in there reel film in the tank for prolonged time could lose flatness. The Combi film rack keeps either sheet film or glass plates flat during all steps. There were other operational warnings regarding leakage.

Bob Salomon
B&W King website content have made changes."It to operate under low light", has been deleted.
Some of the inaccurate, misleading, it is necessary to modify.

[Jac@stafford.net]

The B&W King tank certainly looks a lot like the Nikor reel-type sheet film tank, however it has one novel improvement - the tank is larger (longer) and accommodates more chemistry. To keep the reel from moving up and down in the tank (causing surge marks), the King has a tab in the top to hold it down. (I never trusted the rotating agitation that the tab facilitated.)

For the same results as the King I used a Nikor 220 film tank which had the same diameter as the 4x5, but was slighly longer. To keep the reel from moving I would just drop a spare tank-top lid on top on top of the reel.

[Stephen Thomason]

I use a Patterson tank (1 to 2 sheets, have tried the taco method but it's not my favorite), a Beseler 8x10 drum (1 to 2 sheets), a JOBO drum with the 4x5 reels (up to 6 sheets with both reels) , and the oft dreaded Yankee tank (up to 6 sheets). I have equally good results with all systems.

The Yankee drum is used with replenished XTOL and I have never experienced any bromide drag or uneven development, but I never load more than 6 sheets, leaving plenty of space for chemicals between the sheets and agitating as instructed with a couple of washing machine type twists thrown in for good measure.

[rjbuzzclick]

I use Besseler and Unicolor 5x7 print drums on a motor base. I can develop up to four 4x5 sheets using only ~200-250ml of chemistry.

[tim48v]

In regard to the SP-445 that was mentioned earlier: The first production run of is finished, boxed up and on its way to the distribution center in Hong Kong.

In fact, we messed up and sent a few too many. Thus, we're having a warehouse sale (I know, it sounds cheesy but we don't want to have to air freight the units to the USA if we don't have to.) Visit shop.stearmanpress.com for details.

Here's an intro video:
https://youtu.be/QpWt88sju7M

[Duolab123]

Again to me this is the solution to no Polaroid. Even in the field. Have a changing bag. Take a couple of test shots develop in a monobath developer to check composition, dispose of these in a proper manner. Take your "keeper" shots and go home and develop in a Temperature and agitation controlled repeatable method.

Best Regards, Mike