Filters - Options, Details, Pros/Cons

[appletree]

Gents,
You are always such a great help. I have done some research and read through some threads. Learned a good bit. Especially some details, technically, about filters I had no idea about. Like taking a photo of an apple tree and how different filters, green vs red, can affect the image.

I am trying to sort out what would be the best/most optimal solution for my path down filters.

Here are the details:
-Frequency of use: Occasionally, I would say, ~30-50% of my images.
-Film: 90% b/w, 10% color
-Format: 4x5 (20%), 120 (50%), 35mm (30%)
-Lenses currently owned:

210mm Schneider Symmar-S (I think...77mm)
90mm Nikon Nikkor SW f/8 (67mm)
Eventually...150mm Rodenstock Sironar-W or S
80mm Hasselblad CF Lens (Pretty sure...Bay 60)
150mm Hasselblad CF Lens (Pretty sure...Bay 60)
50mm Leica Summicron Dual Range (39mm)...technically my little sisters, haha. Dad gave it to her years ago, she never shot the camera but one roll or so.

-Subjects: A bit of everything, landscapes, still life, and portraits (in that order)
-Traveling: This is tricky, as I generally travel with too many cameras, as is. In the past it was always my Leica and Hasselblad (own a few filters for the Hassie, yellow, orange, red). With my 4x5 I took all three to Oregon a few months ago. For international travel I will have to chose only one or two. I pack out of a backpack and Filson duffle. So no Pelican cases or checked luggage.

What I am looking for:
-A system that isn't too pricey as time goes on, but made of good quality.
-Only have to purchase once and can be done for many many years.
-Is versatile, even if that means going with screw filters of a larger size and stepping down.
-Pros/Cons of a Lee/Cokin system vs screw mount.
-Something not too bulky, for around the house and hiking I don't mind bringing a ton. But for flying, traveling, need to keep it minimal and to the necessities.
-Just the basic filters, yellow, orange, maybe red. An ND filter to stop down during the day if I want to.
-Not too hung up on the arguments of square filters, light, quality, etc. (since I feel it more than likely minimal and preference)
-Don't mind having nice quality (and even if more expensive) filters for the common 3 or 4 I would always carry around with me

And maybe there is not a solution to have one size fits all (Lee or Cokin). Or that solution might not fit my needs as much. Just trying to grasp the different [common] options and make a decision. There are tons and tons of filters, colors, sizes, options, etc. And I almost was going to pick up some on the FS forum, but not sure if wise.

Thanks for your help and advice.

[Drew Wiley]

For weather, glare, real world conditions, the best bang for the buck in conventional contrast filters I've found are Hoya multi-coated glass screw-in filters. Use step rings for smaller lenses.

[Ari]

For a brand that uses a holder with a square/rectangular filter system, have a look at Haida filters; their holders are Lee/Cokin compatible, they make excellent-quality glass filters as well, and they're very well priced.

If you're looking at round screw-in filters, a new name is Luzid; they use Schott glass and brass knurled rings; they're about half the price of a Heliopan filter, but of the same quality.

[appletree]

Thanks for the information. Feel free to keep it coming.

Does not look like Luzid has a wide selection of filters as of yet though?
I can email you though to discuss more Ari.

FWIW, if going the standard screw-in filters, I might be able to get some good deals going the used route. But then again, maybe even used B+W is more expensive than Luzid...just weary of something that is new [to the market] and 1/3 the price. Just being honest. Then again, the specifics of that can be discussed off air.

Not only options, but reasons and things for me to consider (technically speaking) will be helpful in making a decision. Some of you may have tried all sorts of options over the years. Some may have a preference one way or another, and reasons for this. then again...many may have a preference for no reason at all, just been doing it one way for 30 years.

[Peter Lewin]

For weather, glare, real world conditions, the best bang for the buck in conventional contrast filters I've found are Hoya multi-coated glass screw-in filters. Use step rings for smaller lenses.
I did what Drew recommends: I bought some basic filters (red, yellow, and green) in 77mm to match my largest lens (also a 210 Symmar-S), and a step-down ring to fit my most-often used lens, a 150 Sironar-S. I will add more rings to fit my other lenses over time as I need them. I would love to also use the filters on my Rollei 6006 (6x6 format), but I haven't figured out what sort of an adaptor would work for the Zeiss lens bayonets. As for 35mm, I already had screw-in filters to fit my much smaller Leica lenses.

Part of my decision-making process was a comment Drew posted in another filter thread suggesting that glass filters were preferable to the resin filters in the various "rectangular" universal systems, which are also quite expensive.

[appletree]

Interesting, thanks for your input. Yes, I am starting to lean that way.
Seems like less stuff to own, as well as truly glass filters, and works well if you don't plan to own a library of various filters.

And yes, I think I too would buy 77mm filters and just step down as needed.

[Jim Jones]

Add a polarizer to your filter set, and learn how to use it.

[Alan Gales]

I went with 77mm and use step up rings on any lens with smaller threads. I bought most of my filters used off Ebay. You have to be patient to find the deals. I'm not picky as long as it's B+W, Heliopan or the good Hoya's. ;)

I've never heard of Luzid but Schott glass is great and I trust Ari's judgement.

[Alan Gales]

Add a polarizer to your filter set, and learn how to use it.

+1

I have always been surprised at the photographers who don't own one or don't know how to use one. Even if you only shoot digital you should still own a polarizer.

[Jim Andrada]

If you want to use the same filter on film cameras as well as digital, bear in mind that DSLR's prefer circular polarizers to linear polarizers

[Sirius Glass]

50% of your work is on 120 film. The Hasselblad CF and later lenses use B60 filters for almost all the lenses. There is your answer: one set of B60 filters will work for almost all the Hasselblad lenses.

[cowanw]

I looked at the Luzid web site and not unlike most other manufacturers B&W contrast filters are getting a bit thin on the ground. My approach has been to keep an eye out for older B+W filters with the deeper threads and pick them up inexpensively as many sizes as I got lenses. If you do go the route of just one large size be sure you use brass step down rings.

[Ari]

I looked at the Luzid web site and not unlike most other manufacturers B&W contrast filters are getting a bit thin on the ground. My approach has been to keep an eye out for older B+W filters with the deeper threads and pick them up inexpensively as many sizes as I got lenses. If you do go the route of just one large size be sure you use brass step down rings.

I've seen the same lack of availability of contrast filters from almost all the major filter manufacturers, and the newer companies don't make them at all.
I sold my own contrast filters a few years ago when I got serious about using Photoshop; I have to admit now that contrast filters are no longer needed for what I do, the same effects can be applied digitally.
The present emphasis on ND and C-POL filters is there because those effects cannot be replicated digitally.

[Sirius Glass]

I have also noticed a lack of B+W filters the last few months.

[Drew Wiley]

Almost any basic glass contrast filter is still available in all relevant sizes from several different manufacturers. Maybe the local camera stores have dropped them, but acquiring them from various other sources is easy enough. PS doesn't replace the need for filters unless the initial shot was itself digital color, then post processed for black and white printing. It takes about ten seconds to install a colored contrast filter. How many hours do you spend futzing around with PS to simulate the same effect? Of course, I am speaking form a traditional wet darkroom standpoint. And I don't understand any "present emphasis" on ND and polarizers, unless that just happens to be the kind of Pop Photo chatter out there - some amateur fad that means nothing more or less than it ever has.

[Paul Cunningham]

PS doesn't replace the need for filters unless the initial shot was itself digital color, then post processed for black and white printing.
Very true.


"present emphasis" on ND and polarizers
There are a great many photographers now using very dense filters to smooth the motion of water. And many new products for them. Whether or not this is a fad, or merely enabled by new technology, only time will tell.

[Ari]

Drew, take my statement any way you wish.
Even shooting in B&W then scanning the film leaves me lots of room to apply filter effects in PS; the original doesn't have to be in colour, though there are more possibilities that way, to be sure.
The emphasis on ND and polarizing filters is everywhere you look; I think only Lee still makes contrast filters, but most filter makers stick to ND and Polarizers, offering nothing else.
I'm not bemoaning it or praising it, that's the way things are going at present.

[Drew Wiley]

I can think of six or seven extant manufacturers of coated glass contrast filters, not those flimsy Lee or Cokin kinds of things. I have no trouble getting them, even within recent weeks, along with even more specialized things like multicoated CC and light balancing filters, which digi shooters don't tend to use either. I'm not criticizing your personal preferences, just your inaccurate statement about product availability. Of course, one can also kill two birds with one stone. A deep red or blue filter will also slow exposures. Strange how these digi cameras boast so much about high ISO sensitivities, but present a tactical headache with long exposures in normal bright lighting. There goes all that money people spent trying to squeeze out the last little pixel of a small camera, probably lost in the optical loss of some cheap ND filter. Yeah, times have changed. I resort to such stunts only because on of my favorite 8x10 lenses doesn't have a shutter yet, so I need long exposures to do the lens cap removal method accurately. Of course, I'll try to make that coincide with subject that lend themselves to long exposures. In the old contact printing days most people probably just used very tiny f-stops most of the time.

[Sirius Glass]

I have also noticed a lack of B+W filters the last few months.

Especially hard to find was the the KR1.5 in B60 and 86mm. I also had trouble locating 86mm filters for red, orange, dark yellow and yellow. It took several months even using Tiffen supplier, KEH, Samys and other stores. I do not know which universe you are in that those filters were readily available. Your blanket statement has many moth holes in it.

A generic filter with a generic size will not fit specific lenses.

[Drew Wiley]

Do your homework before you say stuff like this. B&H can special order things for me and have most of them to me within a week right out from US supply houses. Sorry if you prefer to shop at Sam's Bait Shop or whatever. Formatt, Hoya, Heliopan, Tiffen, to name just a few. Even B&W has revived to some extent.
These kinds of things are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the industrial and scientific side of filter availability. Hoya provides all kinds of things beyond what most still photographers are aware of, even custom. Colored glass filters have a whole range of applications. 86mm has always been an odd duck. KR 1.5 is basically just 81A, though an ideal version of this will have a hint of pink in it, and not just amber. I got a new multicoated 82mm 81A Hoya in a matter of days recently. Not problem with the others 81B, 81C either. Things like 81D,E, and EF were always the province of gels.

[Alan Gales]

Sam's Bait Shop has everything for your photographic needs in stock at all times. The last time I was there though they were out of nightcrawlers. Now, what's up with that?

[Drew Wiley]

EPA. They were crawling through contaminated soil.

[Sirius Glass]

Do your homework before you say stuff like this. B&H can special order things for me and have most of them to me within a week right out from US supply houses. Sorry if you prefer to shop at Sam's Bait Shop or whatever. Formatt, Hoya, Heliopan, Tiffen, to name just a few. Even B&W has revived to some extent.
...


What is so hard for you to understand that all the places were out of stock for the filters, they were on back order for months and the manufacturers did not have any in stock? Nor did the manufacturers have a date scheduled for starting up production. Now I realize that you are in a perfect universe so in the future I will run all my orders through you and then I can give you Hell when EVEN YOU CANNOT DELIVER.

[Drew Wiley]

Hmmm. No different than when I need some kind of very specialized router bit. It's in the catalog, but I'll place an order well in advance of need. Otherwise, if you're in a real hurry, you pay for custom mfg, and pay dearly. Might take six months to get the cheaper stock item, but then I have it when I need it later on. I have all kinds of very specialized Wratten gels in the lab that are no longer made because they related to graphics processes, similar to what I still do in color masking. But that kind of thing was always specialized. The only glass filter I haven't been able to find again is a true deep orange, which has a similar effect to a 25 red but is a full stop faster. Only B&W made that. But basic reds and oranges are abundant. With strange diameter lenses sometimes I've had to machine my own adapters. But so what? You've got life relatively easy. Try prying away a set of Harrison and Harrison filters from a Hollywood cameraman!

[appletree]

I have a lot of reading to catch up on, but one quick note. I do not shoot hardly any digital work and all my printing (so far) has been done traditionally in the darkroom. Only reason I spend so many hours on Lightroom and digital scans is for flickr, my website, instagram, etc. Thus, I do see a need for filters in my B&W workflow, even though I can (and do) adjustments in LR/PS.

Also, I think it will help me learn about how various colors are affected by the light spectrum of filters, etc. For example, lots of suggestions on pg 1 to get a polarizer and learn to use it...well I own one for my Hassie and have no idea what the thing does.

[appletree]

Also, if I may interject. I prefer everyone to respect other's opinions, this includes options, manufacturers, experiences, etc. Otherwise it can muddle up the thread really quickly.
Especially for those coming back to this months/years down the line. Thank you.

[Ari]

I think only Lee still makes contrast filters, but most filter makers stick to ND and Polarizers, offering nothing else.


Correction: not just Lee, but about 10 different manufacturers still make b&w contrast filters, including Heliopan, B+W and Hoya.

[Jody_S]

Hassy B60: B60 -> Series 8 (?) + Series 8 -> 77mm (you might have to go one more step, if the appropriate Series -> 77mm isn't available). This stands your filter off from the lens a little more than comfortable if you're shooting something close, but I think the disadvantage is bearable if that means you can concentrate on getting one set of the best filters you can afford.

If you intend to use ND filters, I do not recommend any of the square or rectangular formats as there is always some light leak around the holder. I have some holders with tape residue where people have tried to cut that down, but that's hardly ideal, and the hoods/shades generally mount in front of the filter slots so they're no help. Plus, when you need a polarizer, you can be stuck with a front-mounted 105mm filter that will cost more than all your 77s and adapters put together. On the plus side, if you use grads, the rectangular format allows you to place the transition anywhere in the image.

You will need smaller filters for the Leica, but that would be true if you went the Lee/Cokin way as well.

[Vaughn]

I have a lot of reading to catch up on, but one quick note. I do not shoot hardly any digital work and all my printing (so far) has been done traditionally in the darkroom. Only reason I spend so many hours on Lightroom and digital scans is for flickr, my website, instagram, etc. Thus, I do see a need for filters in my B&W workflow, even though I can (and do) adjustments in LR/PS.

Also, I think it will help me learn about how various colors are affected by the light spectrum of filters, etc. For example, lots of suggestions on pg 1 to get a polarizer and learn to use it...well I own one for my Hassie and have no idea what the thing does.

Take the polarizer and hold it up to your eye and rotate it while looking at reflective surfaces, clouds, etc. As you rotate it, you will notice the view changes as the filter blocks light coming from a very specific direction. If you like the effect on the scene at a particular point in the filter's rotation, put it back on the camera in the same orientation. This can all be done on-camera, too, but hand-holding the lens is a good way to check out what it can do.

I do not have one (but have used them) but do not feel the need for one, just a personal preference. One good use of a polarizer with color photography (film or digital) is in the forest/jungle where all the upper leaf surfaces tend to reflect blueish light from the sky. By eliminating the reflected blue light with the polarizer, the whole scene will seem more evenly color-balanced than without it.

I like using the light as I see it, tho a yellow filter (depending on film) helps to counter a film's preference for blue light so that the film will render the light on the film closer to what my eyes see...

[Alan Gales]

Here is a video on how to use a polarizer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMOsBG2JaZY

Besides darkening blue skies they are great for eliminating reflections in glass, on water, foliage, etcetera.

[Sirius Glass]

Take the polarizer and hold it up to your eye and rotate it while looking at reflective surfaces, clouds, etc. As you rotate it, you will notice the view changes as the filter blocks light coming from a very specific direction. If you like the effect on the scene at a particular point in the filter's rotation, put it back on the camera in the same orientation. This can all be done on-camera, too, but hand-holding the lens is a good way to check out what it can do.

I do not have one (but have used them) but do not feel the need for one, just a personal preference. One good use of a polarizer with color photography (film or digital) is in the forest/jungle where all the upper leaf surfaces tend to reflect blueish light from the sky. By eliminating the reflected blue light with the polarizer, the whole scene will seem more evenly color-balanced than without it.

I like using the light as I see it, tho a yellow filter (depending on film) helps to counter a film's preference for blue light so that the film will render the light on the film closer to what my eyes see...

Or with an slr [Graflex] look through the lens and ...
Or with a view camera or press camera as a view camera open the back, open the focal plane shutter if it applies, open the front shutter if it applies, ...

[Doremus Scudder]

While the idea of having one set of filters with adapters for all different size lenses is workable (even the B60 can be adapted up to 77mm if you want), in practice, this is less than ideal for a couple of reasons. First, your filter kit is larger than it need be except for one lens... Second, it gets fiddly mounting and unmounting adapter rings, etc. every time you need a filter or, alternately if you leave adapter rings on your lenses, it makes them bigger and bulkier and makes it hard to use factory lens caps (which then tend to get lost).

I've modified this approach by grouping lenses into size groups. In your case, I'd probably make a kit for each format as well. I have a bunch of small lenses with filter sizes from 40.5-52mm that I've adapted to all take 52mm filters. Then there's a group that range from 58-67mm; for these I have adapters to 67mm. That's as large as I go. So, I have two sets of six filters in 52mm and 67mm sizes, adapters on all the lenses and, in a pinch I can use a 52-67mm adapter to use the larger set on the smaller lenses. I carry yellow, orange, red, green, blue or cyan (80B or 44) and a polarizer. I have other, more specialized filters, but these serve well in the field. The reason for the blue/cyan filters is to approximate the look of ortho film on panchromatic film. I don't use this that much, but it's nice to have and my filter wallets have the extra slot free anyway. I have coated filters in B+W and Heliopan brands. The Hoya HMC filters are fine, but I don't like the aluminum rings. I got all my filters for a song on eBay used.

So, you might see how your lenses fall into groups and if two or three sets might serve you better than just one.

FWIW, I'd lose the larger 210mm lens with the 77mm filter size and get a smaller lens. My lenses in that focal range are a Fujion L (Tessar) f/5.6 that takes 49mm filters, an Ektar 203mm f/7.7 that takes a very small push-on filter and a Fujinon A 180mm that takes 49mm filters. All these perform well and are now adapted up to 52mm.

Best,

Doremus

[Steve Goldstein]

If you do as Doremus suggests you'll need to get some lens caps. My main setups are, like his, 52mm and 67mm, and I've found the Tamron center-pinch caps are really nice. They stay put, are easy to operate even with a lens shade in place, seem well made, and are not expensive. You can see the 52mm at B&H here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/109812-REG/Tamron_FLC52_52mm_Snap_On_Lens_Cap.html

and an even less expensive version from Sensei here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/807037-REG/Sensei_lc52_52mm_Center_Pinch_Snap_On.html

I have no experience with the Sensei caps.

[Drew Wiley]

I've got a couple of odd sized lenses that take 46mm filters, another 40.5, and two that have no filter threads at all. But I'm certainly not going to waste time looking around for these sizes of filters. I just use a step ring up to the next COMMON size that I have other lenses for; in this case, 52mm works. Then I have a
set of mid-sized filters (67mm), and finally a set of large ones (82mm) that fit several different lenses. Plus I have a few 72mm filters dedicated exclusively to
my Nikon 85/1.4, which is about the only Nikon lens I shoot outdoors. For day with both my 4x5's, my 8x10 lens kit, and my Pentax 6x7 airline kite, I standardize on 67mm filters - just leave em in the big pack and switch out the big cameras themselves as needed. The 82's work on my P67 75/4.5 and
300 EDIF, plus my 4x5 architecture shoot case, including my SW Nikkor 90/4.5. If I'm on a long-haul backpack trip, I'm obviously going to standardize on a small lens set with a minimum quantity of smaller, lighter filters, which in my case happens to be 52mm. I never carry a polarizer, but do use them for the
copystand to control glossy print or painting reflections.

[gnuyork]

It takes about ten seconds to install a colored contrast filter. How many hours do you spend futzing around with PS to simulate the same effect? Less than 10 seconds