I need a Brake.

[HazlewoodImages]

Hello everyone. First time posting to this site and i'm certainly glad to have found it. Such a wealth of information and I think it's a terrific community.
I'm currently restoring to working order an Eastman Kodak No.9 8x10 studio camera on a No.1 Semi Centennial stand pictured below. The problem i'm having is finding the brake assembly for the camera stand. Its for the platform rise and fall or up and down control. Would anyone know who would have a spare part? Is there anyone who has been in a similar situation and found a DIY solution that they'd like to share?
146471146472

[vinny]

as long as the shaft is removable, someone could easily machine that part from aluminum. I'd offer my services but it's way too cold in my shop right now.

[David Lobato]

It's hard to tell without seeing the broken off piece. It could be a simple bearing to hold the weight. That doesn't fit with a brake function though. If it was a brake there would be some friction or locking function that was there before it broke. A simple bearing cap with a centered set screw could work as a brake. The screw could be a thumb screw for manual operation without a tool.

[Jon Shiu]

It's actually a lever that has teeth that hold the gear when locked.

Jon

[Jac@stafford.net]

I have the same stand and there is nothing in the industry that I can find that is a bolt-up replacement.
If I can move my wife's stuff away from mine, I will make a photo of the real thing.
.

[HazlewoodImages]

Here is what the brake looks like. It's a toggle type, spring and pin with a point that locks into the teeth of the gear. I can understand how something like this could be broken by an amateur. 146476 Image by Campbell Camera Collection

[Jac@stafford.net]

Here is what the brake looks like. It's a toggle type, spring and pin with a point that locks into the teeth of the gear. I can understand how something like this could be broken by an amateur. 146476 Image by Campbell Camera Collection

Outstanding! Now we have documentation. Good work!
Whew, I don't have to move mine from the dining room corner. :)
Seriously, many thanks for that.
.

[HazlewoodImages]

as long as the shaft is removable, someone could easily machine that part from aluminum. I'd offer my services but it's way too cold in my shop right now.
I've heard that one could be machinable but it would have to be some sort of different design i think. How much does something like that cost?

[HazlewoodImages]

It's hard to tell without seeing the broken off piece. It could be a simple bearing to hold the weight. That doesn't fit with a brake function though. If it was a brake there would be some friction or locking function that was there before it broke. A simple bearing cap with a centered set screw could work as a brake. The screw could be a thumb screw for manual operation without a tool.

I've considered the bearing cap with set screw option as well. I'd rather exhaust all other options like actually finding one before doing that though.

[el french]

It looks like it's a bearing and a lock (brake). If you have the broken piece, then it could be used to make a mold for a new one. Can you post dimensions of the shaft, gear, and the broken piece in the photo?

[HazlewoodImages]

It looks like it's a bearing and a lock (brake). If you have the broken piece, then it could be used to make a mold for a new one. Can you post dimensions of the shaft, gear, and the broken piece in the photo?
I do not have the broken piece. I purchased the stand without it.

[John Jarosz]

A simple pinch clamp will work. Block of aluminum with a hole for the shaft.

http://chpsale.com/store/image/cache/data/MISC/cs-339-split-hub-clamp-pn-cg3-5-191-500x500.jpg

Not exactly like this but you probably get the idea. The foot (opposite the clamp) would bolt to the camera.

[HazlewoodImages]

A simple pinch clamp will work. Block of aluminum with a hole for the shaft.

http://chpsale.com/store/image/cache/data/MISC/cs-339-split-hub-clamp-pn-cg3-5-191-500x500.jpg

Not exactly like this but you probably get the idea. The foot (opposite the clamp) would bolt to the camera.

That's totally worth considering. Thank you. I'll look for one that may work.

[jp]

If you said "gimme a brake":

146485

[el french]

146490

With dimensions, I could make a better model.

p.s. Fusion 360 model: http://a360.co/2427ymO

[Steven Tribe]

These are so complex cast steel parts that the chances of a replacement working reliably are pretty small.

A quick solution would be a hinged bolt attached to the column, adjacent to the wheel. This could fold down in order to engage one of the three spokes on this wheel when at rest - or after adjustment. This could be done in suitable style that would not scream of amateur - work. As long as the attachment to the column was secure, this would provide a very safe stand. The challenge would be making an attractive and robust hinging system. The outside half of the bolt could be covered in rubber to reduce noise and dampen impact.

You would still have make a simple bearing, but this would be much easier job than attempting to make an item with double function

[Sean Mac]

The broken piece looks like grey cast iron. It's easily broken.

I wouldn't want to try and pull the rest of it apart and risk breaking something else. I would make a replacement with a top cap on the bearing to avoid that issue.

Brass and silver braze fabrication would be my choice. Model steam engines are often built this way to replicate castings.

The original design is good so I would try to follow it as closely as possible. It's a cool looking device.

[Tin Can]

Take a look at variations on those brakes.

Eddie says the Ansco design is better. I had one and it was strong and secure, not fragile.

Start with this youtube (https://youtu.be/5n_-EYM5eFY) and them watch his others. He addresses the lock in detail. You will find it.

[HazlewoodImages]

Take a look at variations on those brakes.

Eddie says the Ansco design is better. I had one and it was strong and secure, not fragile.

Start with this youtube (https://youtu.be/5n_-EYM5eFY) and them watch his others. He addresses the lock in detail. You will find it.

I actually spoke with Eddie on the phone a few days ago before posting this topic. Nice guy, super helpful even though he got rid of all of his LF stuff completely. He's on to new hobbies.

[HazlewoodImages]

The broken piece looks like grey cast iron. It's easily broken.

I wouldn't want to try and pull the rest of it apart and risk breaking something else. I would make a replacement with a top cap on the bearing to avoid that issue.

Brass and silver braze fabrication would be my choice. Model steam engines are often built this way to replicate castings.

The original design is good so I would try to follow it as closely as possible. It's a cool looking device.


I think that I do have to pull it apart to change the bushing because as it stands now, the gears on that side slip causing the platform to become uneven because the rod isn't held in place. The bushing and brake on that side is one whole unit. The other side is just a bushing. I'm going to have to find one that matches the complete bushing or replace both with new bushings. Perhaps in the absence of the brake/bushing combo, I can have a replica bushing made from the complete bushing I already have to keep the gear form slipping and figure out another brake alternative.

[HazlewoodImages]

These are so complex cast steel parts that the chances of a replacement working reliably are pretty small.

A quick solution would be a hinged bolt attached to the column, adjacent to the wheel. This could fold down in order to engage one of the three spokes on this wheel when at rest - or after adjustment. This could be done in suitable style that would not scream of amateur - work. As long as the attachment to the column was secure, this would provide a very safe stand. The challenge would be making an attractive and robust hinging system. The outside half of the bolt could be covered in rubber to reduce noise and dampen impact.

You would still have make a simple bearing, but this would be much easier job than attempting to make an item with double function

I'm having some difficulty imagining your solution. I can't wrap my head around it.

[HazlewoodImages]

146490

With dimensions, I could make a better model.

p.s. Fusion 360 model: http://a360.co/2427ymO


I may have access to a complete brake on someone elses stand but I doubt they'll let me remove it nor would i want to be responsible for replacing it if it were to be broken in the process. How can I get you those dimensions and how much would that piece cost me if it were made by you? The link you've provided tells me I don't have permission to access it.

[HazlewoodImages]

I've had some correspondence with Mark Osterman at Eastman House and here's what he recommends:

You have no other recourse but to pin the stand. This means that you clamp the stand for the first position you are likely to use and drill a hole in one of the sliding columns through to the stationary column. Then find an antique door hinge pin (with the round knob on the end) and insert the pin to hold the stand in place.

Once you have established the first position, slide the top of the stand up and down by 2" increments and drill through the hole you made in the sliding column into the stationary column to establish a series of pin stops.

The broken casting is a different story. Remove and replace with a steel fabrication. About the time you do all of this you'll find a better stand for $300 on Craig's list. :-)

[goamules]

There are dozens of ways to fix this problem. You are starting to see some of them. The stand is spring loaded, so there isn't much weight to hold up by the gears. That's the easy part to fix, with a clamp holding the adjacent parts (like that metal fixture above the gear, you could C-clamp that to the gear rail. The bushing for the gear axle is harder, and needs more care. I'd look into getting just that part machined locally by somone. Prop the stand up so you can just take that part off. Take it to a machinist, and say, "make me one of these, with the broken part split like a connecting rod in a car. Two bolts to hold the "cap" on when you get it back in place, and some oil, and you're in business.

Or if you are really a backyard mechanic, get some bailing wire around that part, wrapped several times over the shaft, and around the back of the cast iron. Oil lightly, crank away. You can fix it the right way "later"....

[jp]

I'm having some difficulty imagining your solution. I can't wrap my head around it.

I'm thinking like a strong "knife switch" that engages the gear teeth when you want to lock the height.

[HazlewoodImages]

I'm thinking like a strong "knife switch" that engages the gear teeth when you want to lock the height.

Ahhh yes. Looking at it though,I'm not sure how I would mount that.

[HazlewoodImages]

There are dozens of ways to fix this problem. You are starting to see some of them. The stand is spring loaded, so there isn't much weight to hold up by the gears. That's the easy part to fix, with a clamp holding the adjacent parts (like that metal fixture above the gear, you could C-clamp that to the gear rail. The bushing for the gear axle is harder, and needs more care. I'd look into getting just that part machined locally by somone. Prop the stand up so you can just take that part off. Take it to a machinist, and say, "make me one of these, with the broken part split like a connecting rod in a car. Two bolts to hold the "cap" on when you get it back in place, and some oil, and you're in business.

Or if you are really a backyard mechanic, get some bailing wire around that part, wrapped several times over the shaft, and around the back of the cast iron. Oil lightly, crank away. You can fix it the right way "later"....

I'm liking the idea of having a bushing similar to my in tact one made but instead of a whole round one, have it in two pieces like a pinch clamp with a knob to release the rod slightly for raising and lowering the platform

[Jac@stafford.net]

I'm thinking like a strong "knife switch" that engages the gear teeth when you want to lock the height.

Those teeth are soft and shallow. I'm afraid the knife switch would break them.

[HazlewoodImages]

Those teeth are soft and shallow. I'm afraid the knife switch would break them.


good point

[Tin Can]

I'm liking the idea of having a bushing similar to my in tact one made but instead of a whole round one, have it in two pieces like a pinch clamp with a knob to release the rod slightly for raising and lowering the platform

http://www.ruland.com/ps_collars_shaft_sp.asp

[Jac@stafford.net]

http://www.ruland.com/ps_collars_shaft_sp.asp

Would this work? http://www.ruland.com/ps_collars_shaft_qcl.asp

[HazlewoodImages]

Would this work? http://www.ruland.com/ps_collars_shaft_qcl.asp

This is more what i'm thinking. I do like the idea of the links you sent but i'll need to mount it to the stand. I drew a rough idea of something that may work if i could have it machined with a base to mount it.146557

[Jac@stafford.net]

This is more what i'm thinking. I do like the idea of the links you sent but i'll need to mount it to the stand. I drew a rough idea of something that may work if i could have it machined with a base to mount it.146557

There are collars that are hinged on one side, and you can get ready-made knobs, keywind types to use for the other side. And there are collars with a place for a standard screw at 90°, just where you want it. Making an offset base from stock might be simple.

[Tin Can]

Nearly any welder could make that if you supply the split collar and a T-Handle Hex key.

No machining just scrap steel, cut, grind, weld. If you supply an accurate drawing and the collar and key.

Under 1 hour skilled labor. Lots of different people can make this, often for beer. You paint.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Randy Moe is right.

I don't know if the sizes of these are good for your project - hinged shaft collar (http://www.mcmaster.com/#split-shaft-collars/=114h7kt). T-handle bolt (http://www.mcmaster.com/#t-handle-bolts/=114h94u), but a lot of small knobs work (http://www.mcmaster.com/#machine-component-knobs/=114ha9w), too.

[el french]

How can I get you those dimensions and how much would that piece cost me if it were made by you? The link you've provided tells me I don't have permission to access it.

It seems I don't even have permission to access it :) Here's another link to the same file: http://a360.co/1SqoTSB The password is: password

The only critical dimensions are the diameter of the shaft and the distance it is from the wood upright. The other dimensions like width of the bushing part, width of the gear part, and diameter of the gear just need to be close. If you don't already have a caliper, then Harbor Freight usually has a sale going on them: http://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-digital-caliper-61585.html

[Tin Can]

Looking at the first picture some more, making the new part would be best done by fitting it up on the stand. The angle of collar to shaft and mounting plate is critical to smooth operation.

Regarding the lock tooth gear idea, that is exactly what an Ansco stand uses. I had one and worked fine and it was not the weakest point.

If anybody watched Eddie's videos he talks about the Ansco gear wedge elevation lock as superior in design.

I agree.

And I totally disagree with Mark Osterman's Swiss cheese method. That solution is easy, but any restorer in 100 years will curse.

[Tracy Storer]

The broken part is a drag, but you could remove whats left of it and replace it with a stock "pillow block" shimmed to the correct height, with a separate assembly carrying a pawl that engages the rack on the column.
In your position, I would load it in the car and drive it to a neighborhood machine shop, and ask the owner for ideas and prices.


Hello everyone. First time posting to this site and i'm certainly glad to have found it. Such a wealth of information and I think it's a terrific community.
I'm currently restoring to working order an Eastman Kodak No.9 8x10 studio camera on a No.1 Semi Centennial stand pictured below. The problem i'm having is finding the brake assembly for the camera stand. Its for the platform rise and fall or up and down control. Would anyone know who would have a spare part? Is there anyone who has been in a similar situation and found a DIY solution that they'd like to share?
146471146472

[HazlewoodImages]

Looking at the first picture some more, making the new part would be best done by fitting it up on the stand. The angle of collar to shaft and mounting plate is critical to smooth operation.

Regarding the lock tooth gear idea, that is exactly what an Ansco stand uses. I had one and worked fine and it was not the weakest point.

If anybody watched Eddie's videos he talks about the Ansco gear wedge elevation lock as superior in design.

I agree.

And I totally disagree with Mark Osterman's Swiss cheese method. That solution is easy, but any restorer in 100 years will curse.


Mark's swiss cheese method would be my easiest and most cost effective solution. It may not be the one I use but it would certainly get me using the stand a lot sooner than scouring the world looking for a replacement. As far as a restorer cursing me 100 years from now, I don't care, i'll be dead. The restorer will also have to deal with the same lack of original parts available that i'm dealing with today.

[HazlewoodImages]

The broken part is a drag, but you could remove whats left of it and replace it with a stock "pillow block" shimmed to the correct height, with a separate assembly carrying a pawl that engages the rack on the column.
In your position, I would load it in the car and drive it to a neighborhood machine shop, and ask the owner for ideas and prices.

I like the pillow block idea. The pawl though would have to have a spring tensioned to always engage the teeth and equipped with a pull handle to dis engage from the teeth and allow me to crank up and down. I would have to mount it to the guide bracket located just above the gear. The Pillow block would be a store buy but the Pawl would have to be custom machined. Not a bad idea, thank you

[Jon Shiu]

For temporary use maybe you could just use a small wedge in one of the slots of the column. Would not have to be super tight on account of the counterbalance spring and friction.

Jon

[Tracy Storer]

For the studio stands that I build, I have designed a pawl which is weighted to use gravity to always swing it towards engagement. Raising the camera, the pawl automatically disengages as it encounters each tooth. ("click, click, click" on the way up) It has a thin handle at the top allowing you to hold it out of engagement as you lower the camera.


I like the pillow block idea. The pawl though would have to have a spring tensioned to always engage the teeth and equipped with a pull handle to dis engage from the teeth and allow me to crank up and down. I would have to mount it to the guide bracket located just above the gear. The Pillow block would be a store buy but the Pawl would have to be custom machined. Not a bad idea, thank you

[HazlewoodImages]

For the studio stands that I build, I have designed a pawl which is weighted to use gravity to always swing it towards engagement. Raising the camera, the pawl automatically disengages as it encounters each tooth. ("click, click, click" on the way up) It has a thin handle at the top allowing you to hold it out of engagement as you lower the camera.

Judging by the picture i've provided would your pawl work if mounted to that flat guide bracket above the gear?

[Tracy Storer]

The pawl has to match the pitch of the rack gear, and the center of the axis of rotation has to be the right "height" above the rack.
You would probably just want to make a stout bracket just for the pawl, and not overload the stand since the pawl would be supported on one side only.
I can send you a picture of what I do so you can show it to your local machinist. PM me your email address.