Do you know what is the problem with this Schneider Super-Symmar 210 XL lens?

[xinchenc]

Do you know what is the problem with this Schneider Super-Symmar 210 XL lens?

145603

Can this problem be repaired or cleaned?

Thanks.

Gary

[Steven Tribe]

I don't know the lens structure of this particular lens, but it looks like breakdown of a side/rear paint job. Very well known "problem" with, especially, Schneider lenses. Just a cosmetic/resale value problem. A variety of "Schneideritis" - only a real problem if the flakes can move about between lens elements.

[BrianShaw]

My local Schneider service center does not repair that kind of "problem" as it is not believed to affect optical performance. You might want to find your local Schneider repair center (wherever that may be) and see if they concur.

[oldlincoln]

It's not a problem.

[EdSawyer]

Or, do a DIY repair. Not that hard usually.

[oldlincoln]

I don't think it needs "repaired". An unskilled hand could do damage in the attempt to correct a harmless cosmetic issue.

[Phil Hudson]

I think there is an older thread where it is mentioned that opening a Super-Symmar XL lens for DIY may not be a good idea owing to the unusually fine mechanical tolerances of this design......

[Kevin Crisp]

There is a cosmetic issue but not one that would affect the performance of the lens. If you open it up, there will probably be marks on that front ring from where you use a wrench and it will forever look like a lens that has been opened up. (It is possible a rubber cup could turn the ring and not leave a mark, but usually that is not the case.) If it works fine I sure would leave it alone. I've opened plenty of lenses for internal cleaning but never just to try and deal with Schneideritis.

[Luis-F-S]

It's not a problem.

+ 1

[Andy Eads]

This may not apply to all Schneider lenses, but I took one apart to see if the paint was really flaking. I found the "Paint" was actually a stretchy coating. The apparent flakes are actually holes in the coating and not flakes. I did not find any flakes anywhere in the shutter or aperture blades. So, my conclusion is that nothing about Schneideritis will harm your lens/shutter or affect image quality.

[Corran]

This lens appears to have been sold on eBay in November, along with a Sinar F2 kit, and then again in December. Are you the seller, and are you having issues with returns or customer complaints? Or perhaps the latest buyer? Some buyers would consider Schneideritis to be a condition that should be disclosed before sale. I've had a couple of lenses afflicted with such but never like that. Mine usually presented as what looked like bubbles.

[neil poulsen]

That seems to be the conventional wisdom, that it's "not a problem." Schneider appears to accept this logic.

But, I really question that assertion. Most times, "Schneideritis" exists in the form of tiny, very bright, silver spots. Multitudes of them. Personally, I would not want all that stray light reflecting about underneath the surface of any lens, regardless of the location of its origin. So, I steer clear of these lenses. Many lenses are inexpensive these days, inexpensive enough not to be cornered into purchasing or keeping one of these afflicted optics.

2 cents. Ker-Ching! :)

[Jac@stafford.net]

That seems to be the conventional wisdom, that it's "not a problem." Schneider appears to accept this logic.

Of course Schneider does. I find it disturbing that one renowned lens manufacturer is singularly well known for this defect. It is a defect.
.

[xinchenc]

Schneider has another logic, if your lens has dust inside, and want Schneider clean that lens, their reply is The whole front or rear needs to be replaced and they do not have the parts anymore. I wonder what lens problem they repair or they in fact just repair the Copal shutter?

[Corran]

That seems to be the conventional wisdom, that it's "not a problem." Schneider appears to accept this logic.

But, I really question that assertion. Most times, "Schneideritis" exists in the form of tiny, very bright, silver spots. Multitudes of them. Personally, I would not want all that stray light reflecting about underneath the surface of any lens, regardless of the location of its origin. So, I steer clear of these lenses. Many lenses are inexpensive these days, inexpensive enough not to be cornered into purchasing or keeping one of these afflicted optics.

2 cents. Ker-Ching! :)

Someone should take two identical lenses, one afflicted and one without, and do a test comparison in a difficult lighting situation.

[xinchenc]

The lens is not that mysterious.

The very front lens element is a thick piece with Frosted barrel and base. And you just need to put that element inside the lens house. I do not have anther same lens to compare, maybe Schneider paint something adsorbing light reflected inside the lens house, but I do not know, but probably there is no such painting, just a bare lens element.

145632145633145634

[xinchenc]

This may not apply to all Schneider lenses, but I took one apart to see if the paint was really flaking. I found the "Paint" was actually a stretchy coating. The apparent flakes are actually holes in the coating and not flakes. I did not find any flakes anywhere in the shutter or aperture blades. So, my conclusion is that nothing about Schneideritis will harm your lens/shutter or affect image quality.

a stretchy coating is something like glue?

[xinchenc]

There is a cosmetic issue but not one that would affect the performance of the lens. If you open it up, there will probably be marks on that front ring from where you use a wrench and it will forever look like a lens that has been opened up. (It is possible a rubber cup could turn the ring and not leave a mark, but usually that is not the case.) If it works fine I sure would leave it alone. I've opened plenty of lenses for internal cleaning but never just to try and deal with Schneideritis.

Do you use Isopropyl alcohol to clean the lens?

[Kevin Crisp]

No, lens cleaner.

[Oren Grad]

Schneider has another logic, if your lens has dust inside, and want Schneider clean that lens, their reply is The whole front or rear needs to be replaced and they do not have the parts anymore. I wonder what lens problem they repair or they in fact just repair the Copal shutter?

Schneider Optics in the US has cleaned internal haze from a G-Claron for me, as part of a service that included Copal shutter repair. This was in 2010, though; perhaps their policy has changed. If you want to make this claim, please be specific about what you tried to have repaired, where and when you sent it and what they said.

Here's what Schneider-Kreuznach says about messing with the SS-XL, among other alignment-sensitive designs:

Our ranges Super-Angulon (incl. XL types), Super-Symmar XL, Super-Symmar HM, Apo-Componon and Digitar can be only repaired at Schneider-Kreuznach. To optimize the optical parameter in the best possible way an exact re-adjustment of these lenses after repair is absolutely necessary.

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/en/industrial-solutions/support/service/

[EdSawyer]

As shown in the image of the disassembled one, there's not any adjustability to that front element. It simply goes in place, or it doesn't.

The below reads to me like mostly CYA/revenue generation from Schneider, really. All they could basically do that a DIY couldn't would be to collimate it (if it even needed that), since there's no shims involved as shown in the image of the opened one.

FWIW

-Ed


"Here's what Schneider-Kreuznach says about messing with the SS-XL, among other alignment-sensitive designs:

Our ranges Super-Angulon (incl. XL types), Super-Symmar XL, Super-Symmar HM, Apo-Componon and Digitar can be only repaired at Schneider-Kreuznach. To optimize the optical parameter in the best possible way an exact re-adjustment of these lenses after repair is absolutely necessary."

[Andy Eads]

a stretchy coating is something like glue?
I believe the fancy term for the stretchy coating I found is an elastomeric coating. Because elastomeric coatings don't flake off, they are desirable in a delicate machine such as a shutter mechanism. I am speculating again, but I think the rough ground edge of the lens is sharp enough to pierce the coating and start the formation of the near circular holes you see in Schneideritis. Looking at the example from the OP, this may be edge coating separation for some other reason; perhaps the lens got too warm somewhere in time.

[marcookie]

The lens is not that mysterious.

The very front lens element is a thick piece with Frosted barrel and base. And you just need to put that element inside the lens house. I do not have anther same lens to compare, maybe Schneider paint something adsorbing light reflected inside the lens house, but I do not know, but probably there is no such painting, just a bare lens element.

145632145633145634

How did you remove the front element? I can easily remove the retaining ring, but the lens seems to be glued or attached somehow.

Thanks

[Vladik]

Obviously somebody did not bother to blacken the surface of the lens after cleaning the notoriuous haze Super Symmar problem I guess. On top of that somebody does not even bother to glue the front element back as it is glued to the housing originally (at least in SS 80 XL and SS 110 XL the front element is glued).
May I ask you xinchenc does the front element wobble when put into the housing? If it does then it has to be glued back in precise position otherwise the optical performance of the lens will be probably bad.
And yes, it would be better to blacken all the surfaces of the lens (not the optical ones of course) as the inner reflections can affect the overall contrast a lot.