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Corran
5-Jan-2016, 13:30
I guess I'll start this discussion...

It appears that links to eBay are completely verboten, regardless of subforum or objective, as indicated earlier today when a thread was deleted. You can reference eBay or mention an item on it - just no links.

I understand the reasoning for this if one is selling an item and then linking to it. However, linking to an item expressly for the purpose of discussion seems harmless, especially in the instance of rare, uncommon items and for pictures / descriptions of these items.

Yes I understand the potential for misuse ("Check this thing out! Pretty cool! No relation!" But they are actually the seller or the seller's friend) but generally I think that is obvious or unlikely.

Feel free to discuss, that's just my take on it.

Lachlan 717
5-Jan-2016, 13:32
Seems pointless long-term as the link will be useless after about 3 months when the item is removed.

Corran
5-Jan-2016, 13:34
True, though no less useful than just referencing it and calling eBay "the auction site that can not be named" or whatever, after that time period.

I'm not sure why, but sometimes when Google searching I do find auctions that are much older.

If anything really needs to be shown, and permanently, the OP should take a screenshot and post it to the thread.

Jac@stafford.net
5-Jan-2016, 13:40
I have moderated lists and it is a lot of work. One thing that helps the moderator is an intelligent search to find the obvious forbidden issues.

One thing I implemented was a search on likely things such as a string of integers that matches certain patterns. Doing the same against possible 'bay item numbers is possible, but verification is rather slow. Another thing is short URLs. Ugh.

I do not know, nor do I want to try posting item numbers as a work-around of the issue under discussion.
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Bob Salomon
5-Jan-2016, 13:46
True, though no less useful than just referencing it and calling eBay "the auction site that can not be named" or whatever, after that time period.

I'm not sure why, but sometimes when Google searching I do find auctions that are much older.

If anything really needs to be shown, and permanently, the OP should take a screenshot and post it to the thread.

Saying "the auction site that can not be named" is exactly the same as saying E Bay. It just takes up more space as well as more time to type. So why not save everybody time and space and just make it EB?

goamules
5-Jan-2016, 13:53
I believe in logical rules, not letter of the law policing. My understanding is that we don't post active ebay listings, because "outing" them might give a potential buyer a lot more competition. But discussing a lens feature, after the sale, is no problem. Some very old listings can be called up, if you know the number, by the way. Here is one from 2012, 3 years ago: 230725220008

Potential questions that can be quickly answered by just this one listing could have been, "Did they ever make a Dallmeyer 8D?" or "Were D series made in the 4,000 serial number range?" Etc. It's a lot easier to say "here is one that sold....blah..." Than to try to regurgitate the facts, without any attribution/reference.

Randy Moe
5-Jan-2016, 13:56
This forum is becoming increasingly irritating with Over Mods, Under Mods, Fake Mods, Important Mods and Wannabe Mods.

I fit into at least one category.

Let the Real Mods rule. :)

Oren Grad
5-Jan-2016, 13:56
You're allowed to say "eBay" on the Forum - there's no need to belabor that.

The topic here is what should be policy with respect to links to active auction listings that are intended for purposes of discussion rather than sales.

Randy Moe
5-Jan-2016, 13:59
If it's eBay links to common manufactured parts, like aluminum extrusions and not links to unique items, what then?

Bob Salomon
5-Jan-2016, 13:59
You're allowed to say "eBay" on the Forum - there's no need to belabor that.

The topic here is what should be policy with respect to links to active auction listings that are intended for purposes of discussion rather than sales.

Personally, I would be in favor of them. A direct listing save a lot of time when trying to research it. I still get a lot of questions about the products that we sold over the past almost half century. And I waste a lot of time when someone asks a question about something being offered and I have to search it out.

goamules
5-Jan-2016, 14:00
I liked the old Mods just fine. Here they are,

http://i.imgur.com/SZUZyY7.jpg

Corran
5-Jan-2016, 14:38
My understanding is that we don't post active ebay listings, because "outing" them might give a potential buyer a lot more competition.

I can understand that. I never post about an item on eBay that I am interested in purchasing. Obviously, more eyes on the item = more potential bidders/buyers. Don't want that. However if the policy is different regarding active/finished auctions or sales, I was/am unaware of that.


This forum is becoming increasingly irritating with Over Mods, Under Mods, Fake Mods, Important Mods and Wannabe Mods.

I fit into at least one category.

Let the Real Mods rule. :)

It's reasonable to question old, outdated, or illogical forum policies, especially over time and in regard to a specific action. That's why we have a Feedback forum, right?

vinny
5-Jan-2016, 14:39
just draw a picture (4x5 or larger) of the ebay item in question. that'll work.
gosh, we need more rules.

Corran
5-Jan-2016, 14:47
I believe, looking at the FAQ, that the only time this "policy" is mentioned is specifically the For Sale / Wanted subforum. Honestly I thought that this policy was only for that subforum??

Randy Moe
5-Jan-2016, 14:54
I liked the old Mods just fine. Here they are,

http://i.imgur.com/SZUZyY7.jpg

For a brief delicious moment Chicago had Mod revival parties in my local bar, it was beautiful.

But many fail to realize Mods were actually the bad guys against the Rockers back in the day.

Now all those Mods have become Chicago Rockers which used to be called Greasers.

I was a preteen Beatnik, in 1963...

Jac@stafford.net
5-Jan-2016, 15:36
Now all those Mods have become Chicago Rockers which used to be called Greasers.

And they grow up to become Chicago cops - the biggest and baddest gang in the city.

Sirius Glass
5-Jan-2016, 15:41
I liked the old Mods just fine. Here they are,

http://i.imgur.com/SZUZyY7.jpg

Mod Squad?

ic-racer
5-Jan-2016, 17:03
I guess I'll start this discussion...

It appears that links to eBay are completely verboten, regardless of subforum or objective, as indicated earlier today when a thread was deleted. You can reference eBay or mention an item on it - just no links.

I understand the reasoning for this if one is selling an item and then linking to it. However, linking to an item expressly for the purpose of discussion seems harmless, especially in the instance of rare, uncommon items and for pictures / descriptions of these items.

Yes I understand the potential for misuse ("Check this thing out! Pretty cool! No relation!" But they are actually the seller or the seller's friend) but generally I think that is obvious or unlikely.

Feel free to discuss, that's just my take on it.
Links to anywhere can be useless after a few months. Just take screen shot of the bizzaro listing and post that.
144548

scheinfluger_77
5-Jan-2016, 18:11
I believe, looking at the FAQ, that the only time this "policy" is mentioned is specifically the For Sale / Wanted subforum. Honestly I thought that this policy was only for that subforum??

+1 on this one. After searching for a specific eBay prohibition the only place I found it mentioned was in conjunction with FS/WTB forum. If I'm in error, perhaps someone can enlighten me...

cowanw
5-Jan-2016, 19:40
Back in 2010 on "Re: Some Soft Focus Lens Sales Information" current ebay auctions were listed and quite enjoyable and educational to follow. However some felt that their diligent searching and acquiring of lenses as cheaply as possible was compromised by others learning about listings without due hardship.
A no active listing policy is enforced: the statement within the classified paragraph is read as applying generally, I suppose.

richardman
5-Jan-2016, 20:27
A couple years ago, I asked about a lens tool that can handle lens that are nested deep inside helical, and a kind person shows an eBay listing. Without the image on the listing, I would have been lost.

Another case in point: for another inquiry, another person mentioned "tophat lensboard". Well, I don't think that particular term brings up the right items on ebay, and it took me a couple days to find what I need. If people are more free to insert links, it would have been more useful.

So it seems like a case of protecting some people, who don't want to miss out on bargains for themselves, that cause more pain for everyone.

Oren Grad
5-Jan-2016, 21:20
However some felt that their diligent searching and acquiring of lenses as cheaply as possible was compromised by others learning about listings without due hardship.


So it seems like a case of protecting some people, who don't want to miss out on bargains for themselves, that cause more pain for everyone.

For the most part right now I'm just listening to what everyone has to say. But I want to swat this one right away - this has not been a consideration and will not be. The Forum is not run for the purpose of stacking the deck in favor of any particular group of buyers, and policy is not made on that basis.

The primary considerations in play here are the principle of keeping the Forum non-commercial, and the objective, to the extent reasonably possible, of preserving the value of Forum threads as reference material over the longer run. How best to realize those goals in practice while giving reasonable consideration to other member needs and interests is the challenge.

richardman
5-Jan-2016, 23:19
Oren, thanks for the clarification.

Ralph Barker
6-Jan-2016, 08:52
This is similar to the "link rot" issue we have with externally-linked images disappearing in image-discussion threads, but eBay links tend to go bad even more quickly. So, as Oren mentioned, we're trying to arrive at a policy that takes everything into consideration, including the copyrights of the eBay posters. It's good to read the ideas and opinions here.

Ralph Barker
7-Jan-2016, 09:33
Important Note: You should not copy and re-post images from eBay (or other) listings unless you have obtained permission from the original eBay poster to do so. Absent that permission, doing so is a violation of that person's copyright, and subjects the forum to potential legal problems.

Len Middleton
7-Jan-2016, 10:07
Important Note: You should not copy and re-post images from eBay (or other) listings unless you have obtained permission from the original eBay poster to do so. Absent that permission, doing so is a violation of that person's copyright, and subjects the forum to potential legal problems.

Certainly an important consideration for a group who should be concerned with copyright enforcement...

Darin Boville
7-Jan-2016, 10:24
Important Note: You should not copy and re-post images from eBay (or other) listings unless you have obtained permission from the original eBay poster to do so. Absent that permission, doing so is a violation of that person's copyright, and subjects the forum to potential legal problems.

I certainly DO NOT want to get yet again for the millionth time into the online photo copyright debate--but if posting screenshots of E-bay ads for the purposes of discussion and historical research (on a non-commercial discussion board!) is not *precisely* what the fair use doctrine is all about then I don't know what is. This is not a gray area. This is your clearly enumerated right.

(fair use = for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright)

Posting screenshots has the practical advantage of not going stale plus it doesn't require the viewer to go to a different site. Very useful.

--Darin

Ralph Barker
7-Jan-2016, 15:17
Darin, I assume we can count on you to pay our attorney's fees when we get sued, even if wrongly sued?

Sirius Glass
7-Jan-2016, 15:31
The dead horse has left the barn.

Jac@stafford.net
7-Jan-2016, 16:11
Darin, I assume we can count on you to pay our attorney's fees when we get sued, even if wrongly sued?

I would be willing to invest in a hedge betting that you will never be taken to court on such a matter.
.

Bob Salomon
7-Jan-2016, 17:54
I would be willing to invest in a hedge betting that you will never be taken to court on such a matter.
.

Who would/could they sue? Where are the deep pockets to even make it worthwhile?

Sal Santamaura
7-Jan-2016, 18:00
As usual, concern about potential for punishment is primary, not doing the right thing.