"Filmomat" prototype roll/sheet film processor

[Michael R]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhgOWvP1vZA&feature=share

Someone posted this on APUG so I thought I'd put it here. Incredible work. The only thing I'm not crazy about is air burst agitation, but I guess it should be ok for one-shot chemical use unless one is using developers more subject to aerial oxidation issues during processing (staining/tanning formulas).

Very cool machine.

[StoneNYC]

Neat, how much, and no 8x10 :(

[Michael R]

Use a reducing back :D

Or I suppose the guy could scale it up to 8x10 for you assuming the pumps etc. can handle more solution.

[Tin Can]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhgOWvP1vZA&feature=share

Someone posted this on APUG so I thought I'd put it here. Incredible work. The only thing I'm not crazy about is air burst agitation, but I guess it should be ok for one-shot chemical use unless one is using developers more subject to aerial oxidation issues during processing (staining/tanning formulas).

Very cool machine.

Very nice, beats mine all to Hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DddOzSUeRc

[Wally]

This fellow has built a plexiglass box with plumbing and circuitry that will process up to 5x7 film automatically:
http://silver-image.blogspot.com/2015/12/der-filmomat.html

A very impressive build.

In his comments section you can see a guest asking (I think 5 times) when he will be able to buy one.


// Wally

[koh303]

All those potential buyers might re consider once they hear the price tag.

[Sal Santamaura]

All those potential buyers might re consider once they hear the price tag.I'm not so sure about that. A post on APUG:


We went back and forth on emails.
Unit will be available next month, he's working on some small issues.. Will be built to order, about 2000 euros, although he's still determining parts costs...

[koh303]

I'm not so sure about that. A post on APUG:

It's interesting that folks whine about high prices of film equipment, then jump up and down when someone promises to make something new, with no proven track record, limited capabilities for a high price tag.

IN all honesty i wish him much luck, and hope he can make this into a commercially viable product. I will be the first to order and buy (as i already have with this and other promises in the past).

[Tin Can]

It's interesting that folks whine about high prices of film equipment, then jump up and down when someone promises to make something new, with no proven track record, limited capabilities for a high price tag.

IN all honesty i wish him much luck, and hope he can make this into a commercially viable product. I will be the first to order and buy (as i already have with this and other promises in the past).

It is a competitive product to your offerings, not the same obviously, but you need to dissect it and for you that is a deductible research cost of business.

Reverse engineering is standard operating procedure for any size entity.

I also wish him success in sales and corporate longevity. :)

[Kodachrome25]

It's a *beautiful* product, love the design, functionality and small footprint.

But, he would have to team up with a company that could offer proper support and a warranty. Also, I shoot a fair bit of Rollei IR400 in 4x5 and there is no way in heck it would work in his standard tank, they would stick together due to how thin the base is. Expert drums are the only thing I have found that gives good consistent results with that film.

Either way, it's darn cool to see folks thinking about how to move the film niche forward, I certainly wish him luck!

[Duolab123]

Looks way more complicated than anything I would want. It's fascinating and a great accomplishment. I think you can buy a used Fuji Frontier machine in working condition for a grand. I used Nikor tanks and water baths for roll film color for years with no problems. But now I've got a couple nice used Jobo units that work great. I will probably be looking to get a CPP3 when I retire full time in a couple of years.
For years I always thought the Jobo stuff was too expensive, but in a world where film processing is getting hard to find and hard to trust what you find I think these type of units are worth every nickel.
My hope is that there is still enough critical mass of buyers out there that all the manufacturers don't give up due to lack of interest and a glut of worn out old equipment.
I hope that if this individual wants to give this a try great, looks like whom ever is great at the machine control side, hand made square plexiglass tanks don't look practical but it's a prototype.
Reality is hard to face but to tool something like that using injection molding would require an annual volume of 10000 units and would have to sell for 5 grand. Thank goodness that Jobo saved the tooling because believe me, after working in fabrication, injection molding, vacuum thermoforming, etc for the last 20+ years you gotta have volume or you are not going to make it.

[Kodachrome25]

Looks way more complicated than anything I would want. It's fascinating and a great accomplishment. I think you can buy a used Fuji Frontier machine in working condition for a grand. I used Nikor tanks and water baths for roll film color for years with no problems. But now I've got a couple nice used Jobo units that work great. I will probably be looking to get a CPP3 when I retire full time in a couple of years.
For years I always thought the Jobo stuff was too expensive, but in a world where film processing is getting hard to find and hard to trust what you find I think these type of units are worth every nickel.
My hope is that there is still enough critical mass of buyers out there that all the manufacturers don't give up due to lack of interest and a glut of worn out old equipment.
I hope that if this individual wants to give this a try great, looks like whom ever is great at the machine control side, hand made square plexiglass tanks don't look practical but it's a prototype.
Reality is hard to face but to tool something like that using injection molding would require an annual volume of 10000 units and would have to sell for 5 grand. Thank goodness that Jobo saved the tooling because believe me, after working in fabrication, injection molding, vacuum thermoforming, etc for the last 20+ years you gotta have volume or you are not going to make it.

Hence my recent purchase of a new CPP3 to help support a company that despite a niche market, continues to support us.

[Duolab123]

Hence my recent purchase of a new CPP3 to help support a company that despite a niche market, continues to support us.

Good call proven reliable German Quality!

[Pierre 2]

It's a *beautiful* product, love the design, functionality and small footprint.

Same here ! I don't believe he has any chance to achieve "high volume" but I guess CNC cutting of plexiglass could be very appropriate to the volume he his looking at.

[EdSawyer]

It's nice to see the effort, definitely some potential design flaws though (only 3 chemistry baths?). Personally I consider the Phototherm SSK-4 or -8 superior to this and all the Jobo offerings, but it's nice to see other people still coming up with interesting ideas.

[Peter De Smidt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhgOWvP1vZA

[Ari]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhgOWvP1vZA

Saw that and emailed the guy for a price; no 8x10 (yet), unfortunately.

[Oren Grad]

For those who can't or don't want to follow a link to a video on another site, the device is called "Filmomat" and appears to have the following features:

* tempered water bath for film tank/drum and chemicals
* accepts smallish drum for roll film and box/tank for 4x5 or 5x7 film sheets
* programmable 3-step processing sequence
* automatically fills and empties chemicals, apparently via connection at the bottom of the drum/tank
* tank/drum mounted vertically in the water bath, agitation via bubbling air

[Corran]

This thing looks phenomenal. I am going to write him, I would buy this immediately if the price was in my budget, but I'm guessing it's not.

[jon.oman]

Someone on APUG said he got a quote of about $2000.00, but the maker was still sourcing parts for the build.

[Oren Grad]

Turns out we had three threads going on this - all merged now.

[Peter De Smidt]

Good idea. I missed the other ones. While I doubt I'll ever buy one of these, at least as long as my CPP2 keeps going, it's great to see new products.

[Bob Salomon]

This thing looks phenomenal. I am going to write him, I would buy this immediately if the price was in my budget, but I'm guessing it's not.

Maybe you can all help him if you all tell him how much you are reasonably willing to pay. That way he can source alternative sources of supply or perhaps reduce the features set and maximize his potential sales.

[Corran]

I will as soon as he emails me back.

[StoneNYC]

It's interesting that folks whine about high prices of film equipment, then jump up and down when someone promises to make something new, with no proven track record, limited capabilities for a high price tag.

IN all honesty i wish him much luck, and hope he can make this into a commercially viable product. I will be the first to order and buy (as i already have with this and other promises in the past).

You did that with success, you had a track record selling gear, but not building reels, and your 8x10 did very well, so it's possible.

[Tin Can]

Turns out we had three threads going on this - all merged now.

I hope thread merging is not too difficult.

I meant that as I have no idea how it works.

But the results are welcome. :)

[Oren Grad]

I hope thread merging is not too difficult....

Not hard. But one does need to pay careful attention, or the results can be... ah... interesting and counterintuitive. :)

[Corran]

Just got a response from him. He's looking at the possibility of large-scale production. Estimated price is 2,000 Euros.

I also suggested he consider soliciting ideas or suggestions here or any forum for small improvements or options that might help the product sell even better. For example, I think an external hookup to pull additional chemicals via separate tanks would be a nice addition. Don't know if that's possible or overly costly to add but just a thought I had.

[Cor]

Took a look at his website: http://www.echolot-online.de/Echolot/Startseite.html (I can read German (a bit), but I guess even without that you can follow his efforts more or less by looking the pictures). He is quite a tinkerer!

And according to: http://www.echolot-online.de/Echolot/Impressum.html
he is (only) 18 years old....

Best,

Cor

[StoneNYC]

Took a look at his website: http://www.echolot-online.de/Echolot/Startseite.html (I can read German (a bit), but I guess even without that you can follow his efforts more or less by looking the pictures). He is quite a tinkerer!

And according to: http://www.echolot-online.de/Echolot/Impressum.html
he is (only) 18 years old....

Best,

Cor

Wow... He built a floating car using the principals of thermodynamics... We should all be impressed with this kid.

[Corran]

Not that it matters, but the website says it was last updated in 2011, so he might actually be 22 or 23. Smart kid, it's good to see younger generations still learning about electronics and techie stuff. Most of the students I teach (who are around 20) don't know how to even burn a CD or do basic computer stuff, much less build something like this.

[Corran]

Just received this email. I am posting it in case anyone here is interested, as he welcomes sharing this. Please note this does not involve me. You can contact Lukas at filmomat@gmx.de


Hello everybody,


I’m happy to say that there are some news regarding the Filmomat!

First of all, the majority of the software issues are fixed by this time. Unfortunately, it turned out that there were some wrong calculations with the memory of the main controller. Because of this, the storage capacity of the machine is limited to 20 processes, not 50 as I mentioned initially.

During the last weeks I talked to Jürgen Heiland from http://www.heilandelectronic.de. They are specialized on developing electronics for analogue photography and I’m glad to say that we will cooperate on bringing the Filmomat to the market!

In January, we will start producing a first small pilot-series, which will only involve 5 machines. The aim of this small series is to determine the exact amount of work needed, and to spot if there are any problems regarding batch-production. The price for this first five machines will remain at 2000,00€ and they will be sold primarily within Europe. This has the simple reason that we can easily take back and fix the machines in case there are any major problems coming up. Of course I hope that this won’t be necessary at all.

Once this 5 machines are a little more established and all possible problems are solved, we will start producing a larger series and get down to overseas-shipping, too. Unfortunately, we most likely won’t be able to maintain the price at 2000€ then. Indeed, the material costs go down when it comes to batch-production, but as every machine is manufactured by hand, there are many other expenses to take in account. Nevertheless, the price will still be far below 3000€.


For the present, we will concentrate on the first 5 machines, though. This is where we need your help!
Because of the high costs for materials, we can’t just manufacture 5 machines in advance. In fact, we need a prepayment in the amount of the material costs, which is 1000€. Once we received this payment, we can order the materials and build the machine. We will start early in January with ordering the materials and estimated a total of two months until the machines are ready for shipping.

At the moment, we already have pledges for two of the five machines. If you are located in Europe, interested in purchasing a Filmomat and willing to make the 2-month-prepayment, please let me know (First come, first served ;-) ). You will then receive an advance-invoice from Heiland-Electronic later this year, or early in January.
Dependent on the demand and the course of the first production period, we may start another Mini-series after this first one, before going into real serial-production. We will see when it’s nearer the time.

Feel free to share these news with everyone who is interested in this project.


It only remains for me to wish you happy holidays, merry christmas and a happy new year!


Kind regards,

Lukas Fritz

[Tin Can]

Good for them.

I wish them all success!

[europanorama]

Yes good news. Heiland is very competent. They will make it right. Bad i have not the money, time etc.