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jernejk
4-Dec-2015, 04:20
Hello,

after some years of dreaming of LF I've finally pulled the trigger and purchased Plaubel Peco Profila 13x18 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/50699409@N07/4656373234) (the set I bought looks exactly like the one in the link). The camera is in process of being shipped to me, so in the mean time I have some time to collect other bits and pieces I need, without knowing what exactly is in the box, how much the whole thing weights etc.

What kind of photos will I make

Well, we'll see about that. I plan to start in a "home studio", doing some still lifes and maybe portraits. Then I imagine I would take a camera to a walk in a city (let's say I put the whole thing in a bag with wheels, than that's actually doable!). Then... we'll see. I probably won't go hiking with it though ;-)

Tripod

This is where I'm focusing at the moment as I can't even assemble the camera without it. Given that eventually I would like to go out, I should probably really limit myself to carbon ones. Some stuff I found browsing around:

- SIRUI N-2004X Universal, apparently should take up to 15kg loads, with quite good reviews
- B.I.G. TMC-1300, similar story

looking how much both of the above cost compared to their "studio" models, I fear they are cheap models for slr

- Coman Aluminium TG330AT (supports up to 20kg, has no center column which I heard was good, seems more sturdy than the above)

Maybe a stupid question: can the camera be attached directly to the tripod, without a head, for the time while I collect everything?

Ari
4-Dec-2015, 06:58
Yes, you can attach the camera directly to the tripod, some people do that as a preference. A head is not absolutely essential, but it does make adjustments easier and faster.
You get some increased stability as well by not using a head.

jernejk
4-Dec-2015, 08:57
Great, that helps a lot, thanks!

Any pointers as to what supported weight range I should be looking at? 10, 12, 15, 20 kilos?

MAubrey
4-Dec-2015, 10:14
A good alternative to a tripod head for large format is a leveling base. It doesn't give you the range of movement that a ball head does, but it's smaller and more stable and makes it easier for simple leveling adjustment from which you can then perform your front and rear standard movements.

Ari
4-Dec-2015, 11:23
Any pointers as to what supported weight range I should be looking at? 10, 12, 15, 20 kilos?

You should be just fine with a tripod rated for 10-12 kilos.

Jerry Bodine
4-Dec-2015, 11:29
...purchased Plaubel Peco Profila 13x18 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/50699409@N07/4656373234)...

I'm not sure where you're located, U.S. or Europe?, but you should be aware of possible problems getting film in the 13x18 format. Check this 7yo link:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?43016-13x18-Film&p=435307&highlight=13x18#post435307

If it's helpful, here is Ilford's Availability List:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2015821113753457.pdf

jernejk
4-Dec-2015, 13:15
I'm in Europe, I should be able to get at least some Adox if nothing else...

jernejk
4-Dec-2015, 14:00
Found this Gitzo near me... the owner is not sure about the model, but it weights about 3kg.
Is that what I'm looking for?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2682265/gitzo.png

Sirius Glass
4-Dec-2015, 14:38
Welcome to Large Format Photography Forum

For carbon fiber tripods that are almost as good as the big brands and a whole lot less checkout Induro http://www.indurogear.com/

Jerry Bodine
4-Dec-2015, 16:47
Found this Gitzo near me... the owner is not sure about the model, but it weights about 3kg.
Is that what I'm looking for?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2682265/gitzo.png

I think it'd need a third leg for stability. :)

Sirius Glass
4-Dec-2015, 17:18
I guess it does not have a leg to stand on ...

Peter De Smidt
4-Dec-2015, 17:48
That looks like a 1970s Gitzo. The biggest difference with newer ones are the leg locks. The rubber can spin on the old ones, and the locks are not as smooth to use. Check it out. Are the leg locks easy to use? Another difference is that the you can't use spiked feet or other screw-feet with the older tripod. If it's in good working condition, and the price is right, it would be a decent option, assuming it goes tall enough for your use.

John Koehrer
5-Dec-2015, 10:31
From the tightening collar and number of leg sections it's a Series 3 performance, compact legset with center column.
Compacts have more leg sections for a similar height of a tripod with fewer sections.
Gitzo liked to randomly change model numbers just to keep people guessing when comparing new vs old models. Anyway, the one in the picture
will handle just about any 4X5 or 5X7* camera around. The question is working height for you. Remember when you add a head the height will increase
several inches.

From memory the section of the 3's are 1 1/8". lower #'s smaller and higher #'s larger.

*From another site recently, probably APUG.......5X7 and 13X18 DDS are the same outside dimension

jernejk
10-Dec-2015, 12:54
Well, the camera has arrived. I was surprised how big everything, specially the lens really is. Assembled the camera should have about 6 kilos.

Slight problem: the set does not include the tripod holder, hopefully I can find the right one somewhere on ebay. So I need that before I can buy a tripod. And I need to find/imporovise a battery for compur electronic shutter - I hope it works!

For tripod I'll go with a berlebach. They are nice and fairly cheap, and I read a lot about broken gitzos, so buying something without trying it isn't an option.

tgtaylor
10-Dec-2015, 14:10
I'm not familiar with that camera but it does appear from the picture that you do have a "tripod holder." If I'm correct it (the tripod mount) can be seen at the center on the bottom rail. The screw on the tripod you posted would thread into that holder. Instead of doing that I'd consider getting a quick release plate for the camera. For my 4x5 and 8x10 field cameras I have an Arca Swiss z1-sp head on a Gitzo series 3 tripod with QR plates attached to the cameras.

Thomas

Alan Gales
10-Dec-2015, 15:23
If you buy a Berlebach with the leveling ball you may not want/need a head. The leveling ball is pretty slick.

Bill_1856
10-Dec-2015, 17:03
You can have low price, stability or low weight -- pick two out of three.
I think the best possible combination is a good used TILTALL, made by Leitz. On ebay about $100. (Includes a great 3-way head).

jernejk
11-Dec-2015, 01:16
I'm not familiar with that camera but it does appear from the picture that you do have a "tripod holder."
Thomas

Turns out that picture is similar to, but not my setup. This is mine:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2682265/pecoprofila.jpg

Mine is missing the "tube" with the tripod mount, but has an extension tube without the mount. I worry the extension alone will be a bit short, but I need a mount to try it first.

I don't know if peco 4x5 and 5x7 tubes are compatible. Would for sure be easier if they were...

jernejk
11-Dec-2015, 06:29
I found the missing part on ebay, hope it fits.

So back to the tripod. I'm quite set on Berlebach 3x2; it's not the smallest and lightest, but it's not like I'll hike with this camera anyway.

They come with various inserts though and frankly I'm leaning towards going with "insert 1", which is just a plate with a mount screw. The leveling ball seems nice though, but has no panning. The one with panning is ridiculously more expensive than the one without it (89 vs 175 euro!), plus I'm not sure how useful a ball head is for such a big camera. I could just find a panning head on ebay later on.

Alan Gales
11-Dec-2015, 12:59
I found the missing part on ebay, hope it fits.

So back to the tripod. I'm quite set on Berlebach 3x2; it's not the smallest and lightest, but it's not like I'll hike with this camera anyway.

They come with various inserts though and frankly I'm leaning towards going with "insert 1", which is just a plate with a mount screw. The leveling ball seems nice though, but has no panning. The one with panning is ridiculously more expensive than the one without it (89 vs 175 euro!), plus I'm not sure how useful a ball head is for such a big camera. I could just find a panning head on ebay later on.

You can pan with the leveling ball if you just want to adjust your camera. If you are taking multiple shots to stitch together you will need a pan head which is accurate and has the proper scale on it. The leveling ball gives you a bit of movement but you can't compare it to the amount of movement of a real ball head.

jernejk
11-Dec-2015, 13:42
It does pan? Hmm... this video makes it look like it's somehow fixed against panning, not sure how it could click into place otherwise?
https://youtu.be/z8cIqnJY8Ec?t=167

I also found this review somewhere, which makes me think it's not best fit for a heavy LF:

"Attaching the camera directly to the tripod without a quick release is very secure, and the spring-loaded tripod screw does make it very easy to attach a lightweight camera and lens - like a D700 and 105VR - but it just runs and hides when I try to finesse my ten-pound rollfilm SLR onto it."

plaubel
11-Dec-2015, 16:01
I don't know if peco 4x5 and 5x7 tubes are compatible.

Your camera is already a Peco: Plaubel Peco Profia NT.
It is not compatible with the P P Universal, except in some rare cases where Universals were mounted onto Profia tubes.

Profia 4x5" and Profia 5x7" are compatible, standards, tubes, bellows, lensboards.

It should have an international back for 13x18cm and 5x7" filmholders, and with an original adapter plate you can use 4x5", too.

Your tubes have no mount, like the P P Supra ; what you need, is a "Stativmuffe", it's a clamb for the tube with a thread for mounting the tripod.

The standard tube has something around 50cm, extension tubes have nearly 20 cm.
But there exist other versions, too.
Extending in both directions, you will need two different extension tubes (left/right side).

Ritchie

Mick Fagan
11-Dec-2015, 16:28
I found the missing part on ebay, hope it fits.

So back to the tripod. I'm quite set on Berlebach 3x2; it's not the smallest and lightest, but it's not like I'll hike with this camera anyway.

They come with various inserts though and frankly I'm leaning towards going with "insert 1", which is just a plate with a mount screw. The leveling ball seems nice though, but has no panning. The one with panning is ridiculously more expensive than the one without it (89 vs 175 euro!), plus I'm not sure how useful a ball head is for such a big camera. I could just find a panning head on ebay later on.

I have a Berlebach tripod, which has seen service on quite a few different mono rail cameras, with total weight up to about 9kg. My Berlebach (Report 3042) is rated to 10kg and it handles this reasonably well when Iím stretching things and very well when used normally.

I would suggest you could think about the having a head like mine with either the 10cm or 50cm sliding centre column, or have both, which I do. I usually leave the 50cm column on all the time, this aids with removal and placement of a heavy camera onto a tripod head by allowing you to hold the camera in one hand, then with the other hand you twist the centre column from underneath and tighten the camera to the head.

Once you have the camera on the head, you lock the centre column from further twisting, then holding the column with one hand from further twisting and at the same time, you use your other hand to twist the camera tighter onto the mount. This usually ensures that a heavy camera will not start turning as you move things around.

Just placing and removing a film holder from the rear of a heavy camera, can often start the camera turning on the tripod head screw. A heavy camera with a heavy lens will have a tendency to move easily on a locked tripod. By having the camera locked quite hard onto a tripod, unknown or unfelt camera movements are minimised.

Having a centre column does allow you to extend the usable height, and while I do not suggest you should push a heavy camera up on an extended centre column, sometimes it is just required.

If I push the centre column higher than about 15cm, I do not walk away from the camera/tripod combination unless there is absolutely no wind. A heavy camera with extended bellows can easily catch the wind and tip over, regardless of whether it is sitting on the tripod leg apex, or is pushed up via a centre column.

Hopefully I have attached some pictures of my Berlebach tripod with a reasonably heavy camera and lens configuration. The camera is a Toyo 45G and the lens is a heavy Komura 400 Telephoto. I have not weighed this combination, but the empty camera is 5.5kg, then there is the lens and film holder to consider, so I would think these pictures show a camera close to 9kg.

I pulled this tripod and camera out a few minutes ago and took these in the back yard. The camera is exactly how I used it last week for a portrait session, the only thing missing is a film holder.

The head allows you to swivel forward or backwards, as well as circular, this facility combined with different leg lengths allows you to get the camera into most positions you generally get a camera into. Having the 10cm centre column allows you to get the tripod down to ground level, or at least very close to it. I have gotten down to ground level once in the field using a Shen Hao wooden folder camera, it worked well.

The tripod has been brilliant for me, I have had no issues with it since I bought it second hand, via this forum some years ago.

Some thoughts. Mick.

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Mick Fagan
11-Dec-2015, 16:29
143386143387The rest.

Alan Gales
11-Dec-2015, 22:29
It does pan? Hmm... this video makes it look like it's somehow fixed against panning, not sure how it could click into place otherwise?
https://youtu.be/z8cIqnJY8Ec?t=167

I also found this review somewhere, which makes me think it's not best fit for a heavy LF:

"Attaching the camera directly to the tripod without a quick release is very secure, and the spring-loaded tripod screw does make it very easy to attach a lightweight camera and lens - like a D700 and 105VR - but it just runs and hides when I try to finesse my ten-pound rollfilm SLR onto it."

I didn't see it shown in the video but the ball will spin in the socket causing the camera to pan. You do have to hold the camera level so it's not accurate like a true pan head but if you are not taking multiple images and putting them together it doesn't matter.

Personally, I don't like ball heads but I did like the leveling ball. Mine had a center column which I could easily hold and move the camera and then tighten the ball with the other hand. I was using a feather light Tachihara 4x5. Even if you don't get the leveling ball, Berlebachs are still great tripods.

jernejk
13-Dec-2015, 04:55
Profia 4x5" and Profia 5x7" are compatible, standards, tubes, bellows, lensboards.

Wow, that's great news! Thanks!



Your tubes have no mount, like the P P Supra ; what you need, is a "Stativmuffe", it's a clamb for the tube with a thread for mounting the tripod.

Got one from ebay!


I have a Berlebach tripod...

Thanks for the extensive report, appreciated!

jernejk
13-Dec-2015, 08:06
After too much consideration I decided to go with bare tripod. No leveling head, no column, nothing.
First, berlebach is modular, I can upgrade later (at a higher price, but still). I intend to start with studio anyway, and if I go out, Vienna is very windy, so extension column could be a problem. As for the head - the more i think about, the more I think ball head (which the leveling head is a version of), is not for me. I'm more of a precise person and only ever used panning heads. Ball head seems like a pain to really precisely position in all 3 axes.

With that, I think my setup is getting complete. I only need to order some constant grade paper and start with paper negatives! (13x18 paper fits perfectly in my holders).

plaubel
13-Dec-2015, 11:32
I only need to order some constant grade paper and start with paper negatives! (13x18 paper fits perfectly in my holders).

13x18cm film will fit perfectly, too :-)
B&W and xray are still available.

Ritchie

jernejk
18-Dec-2015, 04:43
Finally got the parts and assembled the camera... god it's gorgeous

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2682265/plaubel.jpg

BUT!!! As I was assembling it, the front element for some reason didn't move on the bar smoothly, then suddenly *krach*. Oh noes, the tension wheel (for focusing) broke!!! :-(

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2682265/ohnoes.jpg

Tim Meisburger
18-Dec-2015, 05:33
Just glue it back together until you get a replacement. The good thing is that you can focus with the front or the back, so you are still ready to go.

plaubel
18-Dec-2015, 07:24
At my Plaubels, I always took away the front wheel
So I was able to change the distance from lens to subject in a quick way, and I ever focused on the back standard only.

Plaubel germany sells this broken part called "Friktionsbremse" as a complete version with the metal rod, for 50 plus taxes, this makes around 60 Euro and it's available, because it is like the brake of a car - you have to change from time to time.

But - I never have seen a broken wheel...

Ritchie

jernejk
18-Dec-2015, 08:54
Good to know, thanks! I've tried gluing it with epoxy, if it won't work I'll get a replacement. I figured it wouldn't be possible to buy the plastic alone, as it seem to be some kind of casting, made directly on the rod itself.

jernejk
20-Dec-2015, 14:34
There, my first photo!

This is a paper negative, (poorly) digitalised using digital camera. The black dots are emulsion separation, apparently I touched it while processing.
Need to make the contact prints to see how they turn out!

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