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neil poulsen
14-Nov-2015, 13:21
142264

So goes my exploit into ULF photography. I think that it's a noble venture, to pursue the finest image quality that can be achieved by a large format camera.

But, it was too heavy for me. My only tripod that would hold the combination Wisner 8x20 Conversion/Toyo 8x10 G system was a heavy-duty Linhof, 19lbs tripod. The combined weight was about 50 lbs. This weight, plus that of my person was too much for MY frame to handle. (I'm over 60.)

I know there are lighter tripods that would hold this outfit, but not much lighter. Anyway, I have an 8x10 and the ability to enlarge that format. I can still get very nice results with a 4x10, reduction back that I plan to have built for my camera.

I appreciate the encouragement I received from ULF enthusiasts on this site. At least I gave it a shot.

Greg Davis
15-Nov-2015, 06:58
I built a 20x24 inch camera out of aluminum t-slot bar to reduce weight. It still weighs around 50 lbs. and is a bear to move. I built it 10 years ago and have never used it. I get excellent results from 4x5 and 8x10 negatives and my enlarger. I just turned 38 and am in generally good shape. Don't feel bad that you use a smaller camera.

Jim Fitzgerald
15-Nov-2015, 09:23
I'm using my cart more now with all of my ULF equipment. My 32lb 14 x 17 is getting heavy now that I am 65. BTW, any 8 x 20 film left?

neil poulsen
15-Nov-2015, 09:51
I bought a cart for my outfit. I think that a cart may be an essential for these cameras.

The 8x20 film I purchased from Phil Hudson went with the camera. As it turned out, the photographer who purchased the camera had a Wisner 8x10 Expedition. With the parts that I sold with the outfit, fitting the Wisner 8x20 conversion onto the Expedition required minimal effort. All he had to do is remove the adapter on the front of the 8x20 bellows.

I occurred to me that I could sell my 8x10 Deardorff and find an Expedition. But the more I thought about it, the more promising purchasing some 4x10 film holders and having a 4x10 back built for the Deardorff sounded.

Corran
15-Nov-2015, 17:29
At least you tried it, right?

I recently got a pack for my 8x20 that fits like a glove. A smaller bag for a couple of lenses and accessories, tripod in the other hand...I think I can handle it. I'm been waiting for the right subject to use it. I have plans for photos at a very interesting and special place in Florida but I've got to fit it in my schedule since it's really backwoods and requires canoeing to the location. I can only shoot 4 sheets at a time. I better get it right!

Michael Roberts
16-Nov-2015, 06:21
Neil, how heavy is too heavy? To me, the 8x10 'dorff is too heavy at 12+ lbs. My 8x10 weighs only 5. Relatively easy to carry for a few miles.
I am working on a 12x 20 Kodak conversion that will weigh 12-14lbs--too much to hike far, but fine for working near my SUV.

Just wondering...if you had an 8x20 with a weight similar to your Deardorff, would you be in, or would you still say not for me?

StoneNYC
16-Nov-2015, 09:07
For a day hike I don't see how anything under 50 lbs is an issue, my ex's pack was 60lbs when we hiked the Grand Canyon for. 8 days, she was 5'4" and probably only 110 lbs herself. Mine was 80 lbs. I'm 5'9" and only 145lbs...

Even at 60 you should be able to handle 50 lbs for an hours hike before setting up, shooting, relaxing and enjoying the view, and hiking out.

That's not meant to be condescending, that is meant to be a perspective, if you can't handle that you probably should be getting some exercise and trying to strengthen your legs for health reasons, it's probably an indicator that you are out of shape. Don't get rid of the camera, just joined a gym and start doing leg strengthening exercises and abdominal and back strengthening exercises so that you can handle the camera, this will also ensure that you were walking and hiking further into your old age which means you'll be taking more pictures throughout your life and that you will probably extend your life further. All good things.

Randy Moe
16-Nov-2015, 09:11
May you stay forever young and healthy.

baro-nite
16-Nov-2015, 09:46
Even at 20-something a man should have enough experience of the world to know that he himself is not the measure of all things.

Jim Noel
16-Nov-2015, 10:01
I use a folding wagon to carry my 7x17 and 8x10 plus necessities, they use the same tripod and 5'x7' dark cloth. Being closer to 90 than 80 this enables me to continue using the cameras I like best.

Corran
16-Nov-2015, 10:02
Even at 20-something a man should have enough experience of the world to know that he himself is not the measure of all things.

If only.

neil poulsen
16-Nov-2015, 10:05
Neil, how heavy is too heavy? To me, the 8x10 'dorff is too heavy at 12+ lbs. My 8x10 weighs only 5. Relatively easy to carry for a few miles.
I am working on a 12x 20 Kodak conversion that will weigh 12-14lbs--too much to hike far, but fine for working near my SUV.

Just wondering...if you had an 8x20 with a weight similar to your Deardorff, would you be in, or would you still say not for me?

After reflection (a lot of it), I favor enlarging 4x10 versus contact print 8x20. I like enlarging; it's effective, and it offers greater flexibility. Still, it was the weight issue that drove me to pass this outfit along to someone else.

neil poulsen
16-Nov-2015, 10:08
Even at 20-something a man should have enough experience of the world to know that he himself is not the measure of all things.

Being perfect, I'm aware of this. :)

Pete Roody
16-Nov-2015, 15:35
There are solutions. For one; ditch the 19 pound tripod. That is near the weight of my entire 8x20/14x20 system. Look for a used Miller CF tripod (or equivalent) used for video. Mine weighs 6-1/2 pounds and rigidly supports the camera. A Ries Head is lightweight and Strong. A modern camera design such as a Ritter weighs in at 13#. My camera and tripod with head weigh under 22#'s.

StoneNYC
16-Nov-2015, 16:14
Even at 20-something a man should have enough experience of the world to know that he himself is not the measure of all things.

I wish! 30 something :)


If only.

+1


Being perfect, I'm aware of this. :)

Oh! I'm so close to perfect! I'm this close to it! ;)


I use a folding wagon to carry my 7x17 and 8x10 plus necessities, they use the same tripod and 5'x7' dark cloth. Being closer to 90 than 80 this enables me to continue using the cameras I like best.

You Sir, are an inspiration! :)

Mark Sampson
16-Nov-2015, 16:30
Just keep making pictures; that's the important thing. I'd like to try ULF someday myself but who knows if I'll ever be able to make it happen? 4x5 and 3x4 will do for now.

Michael Kadillak
23-Dec-2015, 21:42
For a day hike I don't see how anything under 50 lbs is an issue, my ex's pack was 60lbs when we hiked the Grand Canyon for. 8 days, she was 5'4" and probably only 110 lbs herself. Mine was 80 lbs. I'm 5'9" and only 145lbs...

Even at 60 you should be able to handle 50 lbs for an hours hike before setting up, shooting, relaxing and enjoying the view, and hiking out.

That's not meant to be condescending, that is meant to be a perspective, if you can't handle that you probably should be getting some exercise and trying to strengthen your legs for health reasons, it's probably an indicator that you are out of shape. Don't get rid of the camera, just joined a gym and start doing leg strengthening exercises and abdominal and back strengthening exercises so that you can handle the camera, this will also ensure that you were walking and hiking further into your old age which means you'll be taking more pictures throughout your life and that you will probably extend your life further. All good things.

Absolutely spot on. Get to the gym for an hour at least three times a week and do some real work. When someone whines about a 10-13 pound 8x10 being excessive and drawing the line at no more than nine pounds I cringe. I can almost bet that the last time they actually thought about their fitness was when they were in college and it was a requirement for their degree.

Steve Sherman
23-Dec-2015, 22:22
May you stay forever young and healthy.

Dylan !

Keith Pitman
24-Dec-2015, 07:00
Neil,

Post 2417 in this thread:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?36782-Show-off-your-Large-Format-camera!/page242&highlight=4x10

shows the Shen Hao 4x10 back I adapted to my Deardorff V8. A pretty easy project.





I bought a cart for my outfit. I think that a cart may be an essential for these cameras.

The 8x20 film I purchased from Phil Hudson went with the camera. As it turned out, the photographer who purchased the camera had a Wisner 8x10 Expedition. With the parts that I sold with the outfit, fitting the Wisner 8x20 conversion onto the Expedition required minimal effort. All he had to do is remove the adapter on the front of the 8x20 bellows.

I occurred to me that I could sell my 8x10 Deardorff and find an Expedition. But the more I thought about it, the more promising purchasing some 4x10 film holders and having a 4x10 back built for the Deardorff sounded.

Old-N-Feeble
24-Dec-2015, 08:32
Absolutely spot on. Get to the gym for an hour at least three times a week and do some real work. When someone whines about a 10-13 pound 8x10 being excessive and drawing the line at no more than nine pounds I cringe. I can almost bet that the last time they actually thought about their fitness was when they were in college and it was a requirement for their degree.

I don't know Neil's situation but there may be unmentioned underlying health issues that affected his decision.

A_Tabor
24-Dec-2015, 10:37
Totally understandable to feel you're not able to keep up with things and the weights of some gear. We're all different, working in different locations, with different lifestyles and states of health. I live on a flat sandbar of an island, and can hike around with a ton of gear for various things at will, but would probably keel over and have a heart attack halfway to the top of most mountains out west in my current physical fitness state.

However, I would encourage people to step back and look for solutions to their logistical problems before throwing in the towel too easily. Gear might be heavy, but can frequently be made to feel far heavier due to how you carry it. Taking the time to read and study about packing methods could resolve issues for some. (And even if you don't use it to haul around super heavy gear, it can still make for a more comfortable experience when it comes to carting around a lighter kit in general.)

Carts and such can also make a huge difference depending on terrain and design of the cart.


To me I kind of feel like half the appeal of ultra large format is simply overcoming the logistical challenge of it. I am however a geek and fond of logistics and technical details, so I totally expect my views on things like that to attract some rather dirty looks from some quarters.


But at the end of the day you still have to do what makes you happy and keeps you shooting. Gear that sits and gathers dust isn't doing anything for anyone really, and if you aren't happy doing it then you aren't likely to keep going out with it.

Carl J
24-Dec-2015, 11:37
There are solutions. For one; ditch the 19 pound tripod. That is near the weight of my entire 8x20/14x20 system. Look for a used Miller CF tripod (or equivalent) used for video. Mine weighs 6-1/2 pounds and rigidly supports the camera. A Ries Head is lightweight and Strong. A modern camera design such as a Ritter weighs in at 13#. My camera and tripod with head weigh under 22#'s.


Pete, out of curiosity, which Miller tripod are you recommending? Not familiar with them and B&H lists several models.

Thanks.

Jim Noel
25-Dec-2015, 13:43
I am hoping that by following Morley's advice (There are no good pictures more than 50 feet from the car) I can keep using my 7x17 and 8x10 until I reach 90, in 3 years.

Pete Roody
25-Dec-2015, 16:32
Pete, out of curiosity, which Miller tripod are you recommending? Not familiar with them and B&H lists several models.

Thanks.

Well look for the Miller tripods on the bay used. New they cost a fortune. Any of the CF tripods with a 100mm bowl with a mid level spreader will work. I got an older one similar to the ENG models currently for sale. I got mine for about 400 USD. If you are looking at B&H then look at the Miller 1576 Sprinter II Two Stage Carbon Fiber Tripod or the ENG Carbon Fiber 2-Stage Heavy-Duty Tripod Legs (100mm Bowl). You can view the specs on these. The older models are similar in specs.

Randy Moe
25-Dec-2015, 17:35
Don't stop at 90. How about through your 90's!


I am hoping that by following Morley's advice (There are no good pictures more than 50 feet from the car) I can keep using my 7x17 and 8x10 until I reach 90, in 3 years.

Jim Noel
25-Dec-2015, 20:22
one milestone at a time.

imagedowser
29-Dec-2015, 07:24
I've seen Pete's Miller tripod with his 8x20, amazing setup.

Jim Graves
30-Dec-2015, 20:23
Sooooooooooooooooooo ... Happy New Years everyone ... and, if the posts in this thread have reminded me of anything ... it's .... let's all do what makes this hobby great for each of us .... at our own rate .... how WE want to do it .... and screw those who think they know how we should do it.

It's tired and trite ............ but to each his own!

May you live as long as you want, and never want as long as you live!

StoneNYC
30-Dec-2015, 22:22
Sooooooooooooooooooo ... Happy New Years everyone ... and, if the posts in this thread have reminded me of anything ... it's .... let's all do what makes this hobby great for each of us .... at our own rate .... how WE want to do it .... and screw those who think they know how we should do it.

It's tired and trite ............ but to each his own!

May you live as long as you want, and never want as long as you live!

And my some of us find success in it as a career and not just a hobby... ;)

Kodachrome25
31-Dec-2015, 17:05
And my some of us find success in it as a career and not just a hobby... ;)

Amen to that sir, it's *so* worth it. Everyone enjoy what ever tools you use in 2016....:)

Carl J
1-Jan-2016, 00:22
Well look for the Miller tripods on the bay used. New they cost a fortune. Any of the CF tripods with a 100mm bowl with a mid level spreader will work. I got an older one similar to the ENG models currently for sale. I got mine for about 400 USD. If you are looking at B&H then look at the Miller 1576 Sprinter II Two Stage Carbon Fiber Tripod or the ENG Carbon Fiber 2-Stage Heavy-Duty Tripod Legs (100mm Bowl). You can view the specs on these. The older models are similar in specs.


Thanks, Pete. Good to know. I did a quick search on B&H and the lighter-in-weight Sprinter II-type looks like the more practical of the two for field use.

Pieter K
20-Jan-2016, 21:57
My 8x10 weighs only 5. Relatively easy to carry for a few miles.

I'd love to know which camera this is.


I am working on a 12x 20 Kodak conversion that will weigh 12-14lbs--too much to hike far, but fine for working near my SUV.

I'd love details on this too if you care to share. What's the donor model?

Michael Roberts
22-Jan-2016, 07:08
There are some pics of the King 8x10 on pp. 4-5 of this thread: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?123510-DIY-Open-Source-Field-Camera-Design&p=1257879&viewfull=1#post1257879

This thread has some info on the 12x20 project: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?117602-blowing-up-a-Kodak-2D&highlight=blowing

I've got all the pieces for the 12x20, just need to clean up the brass a little more and assemble/reassemble.

Feel free to email me if you have any questions.

enidhunt
22-Jan-2016, 08:18
142264

So goes my exploit into ULF photography. I think that it's a noble venture, to pursue the finest image quality that can be achieved by a large format camera.

But, it was too heavy for me. My only tripod that would hold the combination Wisner 8x20 Conversion/Toyo 8x10 G system was a heavy-duty Linhof, 19lbs tripod. The combined weight was about 50 lbs. This weight, plus that of my person was too much for MY frame to handle. (I'm over 60.)

I know there are lighter tripods that would hold this outfit, but not much lighter. Anyway, I have an 8x10 and the ability to enlarge that format. I can still get very nice results with a 4x10, reduction back that I plan to have built for my camera.

I appreciate the encouragement I received from ULF enthusiasts on this site. At least I gave it a shot.
I get excellent results from 4x5 and 8x10 negatives and my enlarger

http://hautavis.net/121/o.png