Ground Glass/Glass Plate holder conversion?

[Drew Bedo]

Has anyone created a Ground Glass focusing screen from a glass plate holder?

In concept this would be a repurposed non-museum quality glass plate holder with the septum partially (mostly) cut away and a ground glass inserted to replace the sensitized glass plate.

The idea is to make an effective , useful ground glass that can be used on any 4x5 camera that doesn't have a ground glass. This could bedue to a break in the field or to test/use a swap-meet or estate find.

The unit would be ruged enough, and convenient enough, to use in the field, as the dark slides would protect the glass.

What are the short comings or problems to anticipate or overcome? what are the focal plane registeration issues?

Anybody?

[goamules]

It seems like a good idea. I have some cameras that don't have a fixed, spring back for the ground glass. Instead, they have two backs, one is the ground glass back for focusing, the other to hold a plate.

[IanG]

It's far better to make a Ground-glass focus screen holder from an old film pack holder, they are more substantial and it's less work and very easy. I've done it a few times for other people where their camera was missing the focus screen holder.

Ian

[Steven Tribe]

...and "old film holders" go for virtually nothing!

[Drew Bedo]

The film pack holder idea is a good for the general question in my OP.

However, this project is actually aimed at the TravelWide P&S cameras that are being shipped now. These cameras have a spring back that won't open up enough for a film pack holder or Grafmatic.

So the options being persued here are to daapt a standard film holder, or an old glass plate holder.


Any suggestions or actual experience anyone?

[case-ie]

Learn from the wet plate guys,

You will have to make a fitting groundglass.
Or if you want to take out the whole septum, it will be difficult to secure a groundglass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlb7DRoSSVI

[Tim Meisburger]

Randy and I discussed this already in another thread. I think the easiest thing is to make a wooden frame the size of a filmholder and insert a groundglass, like I did here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?121626-Mahogany-Polaroid-800-conversion-to-4x5&highlight=tim+meisburger+polaroid+conversion

If you don't like that, you can convert a filmholder for wet plate, and simply insert a groundglass instead of a plate. I guess the link above shows that. I think wood is easier, and can give you a ground glass the same size as the film. Converting a plateholder would require exactly the same work and have the same limitations as converting a filmholder.

[plaubel]

Some weeks ago, I converted a 4x5" fidelity holder to a GG holder by placing the glass in the correct place.
This works fine now and it's precise, and of course the holder is compatible to any international back - but it has been an ugly job.
I'm not sure, if I would give instead a wooden frame a chance for the next time, really..

Ritchie

[Drew Bedo]

Tim: What nice work on that frame!

Plaubel: Would you share some pictures and a description of how you did the conversi
I have a glass plate holder, but it seems to be a force-fit under the TW clips. Someone suggested a Pack Film Holder conversion but that doesn't seem to be workable on the TW either.

A new question: Could a spacer (maybe a 1/4 ") be placed between the TW spring clips and the camera back where the clips mount to the back? This would give enough room to hold a Grafmatic or glass plate holder. Thoughts?

[cuypers1807]

I have something similar to what you are asking for. Dean Jones who made my Razzle provided a film holder ground glass with my order. I don't really use it so I will have to look for it to make photos.

[Fr. Mark]

I made a "frame" out of pieces of masonite for a piece of ground glass for my home built 8x10 then planed and sanded it down to have the correct distance to the film plane for my 5 film holders that were once some sort of standard but not the modern ANSI standard. I slip this into the place where the film holder goes. It seemed a lot less fiddly to build than a spring back. I got the idea from this link: http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/camera.html

[plaubel]

Plaubel: Would you share some pictures and a description of how you did the conversi


If you could give me a little time, yes, I will show some pics and will try to explain.

Ritchie

[Drew Bedo]

Sure; take all the time you need.

[cuypers1807]

Drew,
Here is a photo of the ground glass from my Razzle:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5680/23160832830_a90aa16cca_c.jpg

[Drew Bedo]

Just what I imagined the conversion would be.

Thanks for taking the time.

[plaubel]

I took an old 9x12 Plattenkamera and builded a kind of international back for her; here I needed a groundglass carrier, so I prepared a fidelity film holder.
Measurements were given, except the new plane for the glass.

After working on the fidelity I have to say that they are absolutely great, maybe art of engineering !

142922

The thickness of a filmsheet will mostly have 175 Micron, nearly 0,2 mm.
The groundglass has more than 1mm, in my case 1,5mm.
So laying both on the floor, the difference between the rough side of the glass and the emulsion side of the film has more than 1 mm.
Laying the glass onto the (cutted off) middle plate of the fidelity isn't a correct solution.
After looking some hours onto the fidelity, my solution has been to cut off the two "film clambs" A, and the middle plate too.
In this way I was able to press the groundglass from downside against the two "clambs" B.
Normally, by loading a film, he will slide easily into the fidelity because of some space between film and "clamb".
That's the reason for the possibility to bring in a Stouffer greyscale, too.
For an excactly plane of the groundglass then it seems to be necessary to fill the space with stripes of film, which will have approximativement the thickness of the space.

For holding the groundglass in place, I took a frame, cutted of the second, nonused slide and some spacers.
And yes, Drew, the slide as a groundglass protector is absolutely perfect :-)

Some pics will follow,
Ritchie

[Drew Bedo]

Plaubel: I believe that I understand your description to say that both the septum deviding the two sides of the film holder and one set of film clips ae removed by cutting, HOW was the cutting done? I am assuming that the folding flaps that allow for film to be inserted were removed when doing the cutting and later replced. Was the glass plate glued in place with epoxy?

[plaubel]

For cutting, I have used a Dremel, but this wasn't the best tool.
It felt that the work took two ours, it needed a lot of sense and it made a lot of dust.
Imagine, that you have to be very careful not cutting away the filmclips B; there is only the space of two film sheets between middle septum and needed filmclip..
The middle septum plate is of aluminium, this doesn't work good by using a Dremel, Alu smears during cutting, this feels like a brake.

Removing the flaps was not necessary, "flapping" them was good enough.
But I had to work on them with the Dremel, too, they are very special inside and closed, they disturb the glass.

This all make me believe, as said before, that this ugly job may better done by building a complete new frame for the glass by using Aluminium, or wood...

Glueing the glass may not be the best idea, so I clambed the glass with some parts of the original darkslide ( I cutted a 4x5" whole in the darkslide and then used the rest like a frame) and, at thistime, with some small pieces of wood (spacers).
Have to find a better solution, but it works.
Let me soon make some pictures, maybe they will show more details.
Oh, and I forgot to tell, that for a 4x5" groundglass the fidelity must be a 9x12 cm version because of the bigger filmclips B.

[Tin Can]

@Plaubel

Did you use an abrasive cut off wheel with Dremel?

Pictures will be appreciated.

Converting DDS to universal GG is a great project. The preservation of DS as GG protector I see as primary reason.

Thanks for your efforts.

[Drew Bedo]

Does anyone know if the film holder can be partially disassembled to remove the septum, leaving both sets of film clip/channels intact. The glass plate would be inserted between the channels and epoxied in place providing structure.

Anyone know if this is possible?

[plaubel]

sorry, double..

[plaubel]

Randy, I didn't use abrasion ones.
First I tried such very thin ( maybe 0,5mm) Korund wheels, but they died every 60 seconds.
After that, I bought a "normal" cutting wheel, nearly the same stuff like for the big handmachines, which is cutting steel. One wheel for the whole work, so it was a good decision.
Drew, disassembling and removing parts seems not possible, for me, I have no idea..

Here is one terrible picture, I have to finish the filmclips with a better tool then a Dremel:
142952

[Drew Bedo]

Re: Ground Glass focusing screen made from a film holder.

Today I went to "Professional Camera Repair" on Richmond Street here in Houston. Talked with owner, Mike Hakeem about what was needed. In about twenty minutes he adapted my piece of ground glass and my film holder to make a 4x5 focusing screen for my TravelWide point-n-shoot (or any 4x5 w/o gg). Works great and cost was reasonable.

If you need one of these, Call Mike at PCR at: 713-621-3627

Or go to: http://www.professionalcamerarepair.com/

Ok, so I didn't do it myself—so sue me!

Cheers