Remote shutter release won't work in cold (Copal?)

[quixoticcassandra]

I believe it's a Copal. Looks like one and it says "made in Japan" on it, and it's attached to a 47mm super-angulon.

And when I say cold, I mean about 10C or 50F.

I've tried to narrow down things a bit. It's not the cable release, since both of the cable releases that I have work well on my other cameras, and since they both work well on this Copal when weather is warm.

And I don't think it's related to the normal operation of the shutter (circled in green), since that works at all temp's.

It just becomes a problem at that remote attachment point (circled in red) in cooler weather. And when that happens, I have to trip the shutter non-remotely.

Is there some part of the assembly that transmits the remote action to the shutter mechanism which is susceptible to cold? Has anybody had similar problems with Copal shutters?

Thanks in advance.

Evan

[quixoticcassandra]

I had a closer look at the mechanism. The pin from the cable release pushes a lever which is integral with the shutter button. I suspect that the pin is somehow slipping off of the lever when the temp's (or maybe the humidity) reach a certain point. Part of the problem is that the lever doesn't always present a perpendicular surface for the pin to push against. But another issue is that there is a small amount of wiggle room between the pin and its housing.

[Jac@stafford.net]

There could be a fitting issue in the cable release thread, and/or it does not push far enough.

[Bob Salomon]

You are not really using it in "cold" weather, if you were then a service center could use a cold weather lubricant. But the range of temperatures that you are mentioning isn't close to what require special lubricants. Sounds like you have a mechanical problem. Any camera repair shop should be able to fix it quickly. Unless there is a broken part that might be hard to get from Copal.

[Liquid Artist]

If it was my shutter I would probably send it in and have a CLA ( Clean Lube Adjust) done.
Then it should be more or less timed accurately, work in COLD weather and give you many years of trouble free service, as long as you use it from time to time.

I have several Old trouble free shutters that as far as I know have never been apart. They get used every 2 or 3 months and still give me Stellar results. These shutters have been used in -65C temperatures and still worked right.
However I also have 3 shutters that sat for years that need a service to work properly. Most likely because the grease had a chance to dry and gum things up.

[quixoticcassandra]

I found another remote shutter release hanging around (a bulb type). So I think I'll just carry all three around and when the first one starts to malfunction, I'll bring out the other two. Hopefully that'll solve the problem.

[Bob Salomon]

I found another remote shutter release hanging around (a bulb type). So I think I'll just carry all three around and when the first one starts to malfunction, I'll bring out the other two. Hopefully that'll solve the problem.

That is what I would do, ignore the problem until it becomes something major and then costs a lot more to fix as well as not getting the shot I want. Good luck!

[quixoticcassandra]

That is what I would do, ignore the problem until it becomes something major and then costs a lot more to fix as well as not getting the shot I want. Good luck!

I'm coming to the conclusion that the cable release is the problem; not the lens. (and your sarcasm isn't helpful).

[Liquid Artist]

quixoticcassandra,
I'm with Bob on this one.

You've already tried 2 cable releases and are still having issues. So they are not the issue.

There is one easy thing to test though. Try pushing the regular shutter button bypassing the cable all together.

One last thing to look at is triangle shaped preview / focus button. If it isn't all the way closed it will bind things up.

[Bob Salomon]

I'm coming to the conclusion that the cable release is the problem; not the lens. (and your sarcasm isn't helpful).

But you originally said that it wasn't a cable release problem and then stated that it only happens in cool/"cold" weather. And that you had tried more then one release and they all also worked with other cameras.
What has changed?

[Liquid Artist]

quixoticcassandra,

If your desperate to get it fixed and on a limited budget there are a few alternatives.

The best is just use it as a Barrel Lens when it's cold.

Second is buy another shutter on the used section here and sell yours with the understanding that it may need some work.

Last, and I definitely do Not recommend this.
Is if you search on line some people have loosened up the old grease with some solvents.
You do risk destroying your shutter doing this, not to mention there are other risks involved ( health and safety) with most solvents.

[quixoticcassandra]

quixoticcassandra,
I'm with Bob on this one.

You've already tried 2 cable releases and are still having issues. So they are not the issue.

There is one easy thing to test though. Try pushing the regular shutter button bypassing the cable all together.

One last thing to look at is triangle shaped preview / focus button. If it isn't all the way closed it will bind things up.

I haven't been able to replicate the problem with the other two cable releases. In fact, I haven't been able to replicate the problem with the first cable release. Perhaps because I'm now in a cold, dry country (Canada), whereas the problem was occurring in a cold, damp country (Ireland).

The regular shutter button has always worked just fine. And the preview lever seems not to affect anything. I may just have to tote around all three cable releases until the problem occurs again, and hope that the lens has a preference for one of the other two cables.

[quixoticcassandra]

But you originally said that it wasn't a cable release problem and then stated that it only happens in cool/"cold" weather. And that you had tried more then one release and they all also worked with other cameras.
What has changed?

It may be more of an interface problem (between the release and the lens mechanism) as opposed to either the release or the lens shutter by themselves.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Service the shutter. :)

[quixoticcassandra]

quixoticcassandra,

If your desperate to get it fixed and on a limited budget there are a few alternatives.

The best is just use it as a Barrel Lens when it's cold.

Second is buy another shutter on the used section here and sell yours with the understanding that it may need some work.

Last, and I definitely do Not recommend this.
Is if you search on line some people have loosened up the old grease with some solvents.
You do risk destroying your shutter doing this, not to mention there are other risks involved ( health and safety) with most solvents.

My hunch is that the shutter is fine. I bought the camera fairly recently from Ffordes, and it seems relatively pristine.

I'm quite sure now that the pin from the first cable has just enough play to slip off of the shutter lever at certain temp's and/or humidities. Hopefully, one or both of the other two cable releases prove to be less problematic.

[koh303]

quixoticcassandra,
I'm with Bob on this one.

You've already tried 2 cable releases and are still having issues. So they are not the issue.

There is one easy thing to test though. Try pushing the regular shutter button bypassing the cable all together.

One last thing to look at is triangle shaped preview / focus button. If it isn't all the way closed it will bind things up.

both cable releases might not be the right ones. You have a copal press shutter, which works entirely different then a conventional shutter. It also has different length and thickness requirement for the push pin of a cable release. A short, and thin one will not work properly at all times, and sometimes will. I think might even not have anything to do with the weather. I would check a different type of cable release before all else, as that is cheaper and in my opinion easier, then to find one of Bob's "any camera repair shops" who know what a leaf shutter is, with all honest and due respect to bob.

Also - there might be something else going on - press shutters have more ports and openings, and are slightly a more "loose" design the conventional shutters, thus allowing for more potential debris to jam things up - it is possible there is enough clearance at certain temps but not at others, but i suspect its not an environmental issue but a position or physical one, which by some chance only presented itself during the lower temps you describe. This is of course only my opinion with out having seen the shutter or looked inside of it.

Another thing - the press sutter cable release port is not fixed onto the shutter rim housing but is laced on with a "strap" held on by two screws. The "strap" is thin and can easily be bent or pushed out of alignment, causing an almost fitting cable release to work sometimes but not always. Something to check.

good luck!

[quixoticcassandra]

A short, and thin one will not work properly at all times, and sometimes will. I think might even not have anything to do with the weather. I would check a different type of cable release before all else,


Is there a generic name for this different type of cable? I think you may be on to something.

[joselsgil]

This is a bit of advice I was given by Carol Miller of Flutot's Camera Repair.

When using a NEW cable release. File down or sand the tip of the cable release. Sometimes the NEW cable release has a very smooth round tip, which will flatten out over time, but when NEW, it can slip off the shutter's contact point, causing the shutter not to work properly. I hope this makes sense to you'll, I as try to explain this.

In my own experience, when one cable release does not work with a shutter, try another cable release. Some of my shutters only like to work with one cable release.


Jose

[quixoticcassandra]

This is a bit of advice I was given by Carol Miller of Flutot's Camera Repair.

When using a NEW cable release. File down or sand the tip of the cable release. Sometimes the NEW cable release has a very smooth round tip, which will flatten out over time, but when NEW, it can slip off the shutter's contact point, causing the shutter not to work properly. I hope this makes sense to you'll, I as try to explain this.

In my own experience, when one cable release does not work with a shutter, try another cable release. Some of my shutters only like to work with one cable release.


Jose

Thanks Jose. I suspect that slippage is indeed the issue. When I look at the tips of the three releases, one has a flat top (this is the one I had trouble with), and the other two have spherical tops. I'll try sanding the tips.