New book on making silver gelatin dry plate, paper, and film

[dwross]

Hi All,
I finally finished a book I've been working on for a while now. I hope it contributes something to the field. Seems like it's never been a better time to consider making our own materials -- as in: it's a lot of fun!
http://www.blurb.com/b/6465389-the-light-farm

[Tin Can]

Cool Denise!

I will buy one next week on payday.

Maybe sooner, I just sold a Velosolex....

[Mark Woods]

Hello Denise, I've been looking for a book like this for some time. I just bought a copy. Thanks!!

[Peter De Smidt]

Sounds like an interesting book. I'm looking forward to getting a copy.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Excellent!

[sanking]

Denise,

Congratulations on the book. I know that it was a labor of love.

Do you have any plan to sell this as an e-book?

Sandy

[JMB]

Do you have any plan to sell this as an e-book?

Sandy

Don't do it. The "E" philosophy is the first runner-up root of all post modern evil.

[dwross]

Thanks, Everyone!
(No plans right now for an e-book.)
d

[gary892]

Is there another way to pay for this book without creating an account in the web site?

[dwross]

Blurb is the only outlet right now. That keeps the purchase cost to a minimum. I hope they don't want anything more than email and mailing addresses. Blurb takes Paypal, so that should handle the mailing address. I have a Blurb account and it doesn't seem to generate a lot of extra, annoying emails, if that's your concern about creating an account (I know I hate cascades of junk email!)

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Thank you Denise! I happily ordered one.

[dwross]

:)I hope you have as much fun as I've been having!

[peter schrager]

Thanks denise..I'll order one too!!

[AuditorOne]

Ordered. Thanks Denise.

[dwross]

Thanks again to everyone who ordered a book. I hope you are getting something useful for your own work from it.
I've stepped back into unknown territory (for me) and started new research. I'll be blogging it. Where I'm going the results will probably be mostly pratfalls, but I have my fingers crossed for at least a few successes :). http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmlgennew.py?content=Journal
Denise

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

The book is really well done Denise. I have read it through a few times, and am mostly set up to try my first batch of paper. All I need is a big piece of glass to level...

[Willie]

Will they take a US Postal money order for payment? Can't get the thing to give me the information and paypal is not an option.

[Mark Woods]

Hi Denise, you've made a well researched and easy to understand book. Thank you for your efforts. I've read through most of it and have thoroughly enjoyed it.

Mark

[dwross]

Jason and Mark, thank you for the kind words. They are very nice to hear. Much appreciated.
Willie, It looks like Blurb takes the four major credit cards, as well as Paypal. I don't see a money order option, but you should ask them. So far, I've been quite happy and impressed with Blurb and their willingness to communicate and accommodate. Good luck.

[Mark Woods]

:) Denise happy to spread the word on a wonderful source of information!!

[Tin Can]

OK! A good thing you kept this thread alive as I forget everything.

I just ordered it and found I could wait for the slow ship method. :)

Thanks for everything you do, and I mean that!

Best,

[dwross]

:)!

[Duolab123]

OK! A good thing you kept this thread alive as I forget everything.

I just ordered it and found I could wait for the slow ship method. :)

Thanks for everything you do, and I mean that!

Best,

I'm getting ready, I've made a bromide emulsion before about 25 years back silver nitrate, KBR and Knox unflavored gelatin :) I may uncover this in your book, but is there a paper stock that come close to the Kodak G surface of Ektalure. I absolutely love the fine pebbled texture.

I grew up in Cedar Rapids Iowa. Google Frank Kilborn, he had a big plant early 20th century in CR. Kilborn Photo, they made Kruxo, millions of real photo postcards printed on Kruxo. Frank Kilborn sold his patents to George Eastman. Kilborn moved to Rochester for over a year to help set up manufacturing lines. Story goes is that it was Kruxo that finally did in print out papers.

I cooked my emulsion for 24 hours, it was a nice bromide enlarging paper, 1st try and it worked, pretty straight forward once you work up the nerve.

Thanks for your dedication to this wonderful piece of art, science, history, and Great Romance!!
Mike

[Duolab123]

Just placed my order, am looking forward to getting it. I still have all the chemicals. All I would need is some paper and gelatin. Kilborn is still in business coating something, not AgX maybe they have some old recipes laying around. :)

[Duolab123]

It's me again looked online and "The American Photographer " magazine 3rd edition 1909 states that Kilborn in Cedar Rapids, was selling 2 million sheets of Kruxo post card paper a month. I'm thinking this was the height of the RPPC era. This source stated than one company was taking 20,000 cards a day 6 days a week. Can you imagine the scale of contact printing 20,000 images a day of main streets, train depots, sights etc. How do you develop fix wash and dry 20,000 3 1/2 × 5 1/2 cards a day
Now I want to make REAL PHOTO post cards..

[dwross]

Hi Mike,
Nice to meet you. Always great to have another alchemist join the party!

Thanks for the story about Kilborn Photo. I'd never heard of them, but wow, I agree. I'd love to be a time-traveling mouse just to watch an operation like that. I've seen pictures, of course, but I'm sure they don't convey the sense of it all. My dad's family was from Cedar Rapids. I can imagine some of them worked at Kilborn. There isn't anyone left to ask, but it stands to reason. Maybe it's in my blood :).

Matching paper tones and textures exactly is a trick. Paper was almost as much a proprietary thing as the emulsions were. Kit Funderburk was a paper engineer at Kodak. He wrote two booklets called History of the Paper Mills at Kodak Park and A Guide to the Surface Characteristics , Kodak Fiber Based Black and White Papers. He was selling them basically for shipping costs. I don't know if he still is, but you could ask. KitFunderburk at gmail dot com. They are a very well done contribution to history.

As for Ektalure G: Fabriano Artistico Traditional White, 140 lb, comes very close to the warm tone. The HP texture is a little smoother. Cold Press (CP) might be close to what you want. I don't have a sample of that to compare to my old Kodak materials book. All watercolor papers have some texture. I'd bet you'll come close. Good luck and fun!
d

[Duolab123]

Hi Mike,
Nice to meet you. Always great to have another alchemist join the party!

Thanks for the story about Kilborn Photo. I'd never heard of them, but wow, I agree. I'd love to be a time-traveling mouse just to watch an operation like that. I've seen pictures, of course, but I'm sure they don't convey the sense of it all. My dad's family was from Cedar Rapids. I can imagine some of them worked at Kilborn. There isn't anyone left to ask, but it stands to reason. Maybe it's in my blood :).

Matching paper tones and textures exactly is a trick. Paper was almost as much a proprietary thing as the emulsions were. Kit Funderburk was a paper engineer at Kodak. He wrote two booklets called History of the Paper Mills at Kodak Park and A Guide to the Surface Characteristics , Kodak Fiber Based Black and White Papers. He was selling them basically for shipping costs. I don't know if he still is, but you could ask. KitFunderburk at gmail dot com. They are a very well done contribution to history.

As for Ektalure G: Fabriano Artistico Traditional White, 140 lb, comes very close to the warm tone. The HP texture is a little smoother. Cold Press (CP) might be close to what you want. I don't have a sample of that to compare to my old Kodak materials book. All watercolor papers have some texture. I'd bet you'll come close. Good luck and fun!
d

Thanks, you are doing Great work here!! Really appreciate your help!

[goamules]

Congratulations on your much needed book.

[dwross]

Thanks, Duo and Garrett! I really do hope that there will be active "Dry Plate" and "AgX Prints" threads going strong here someday.

[sepstein17]

Looks like a GREAT read and study guide -- just made shelf-room for it in my darkroom where its new home will be when not in use...
Thanx.

steve :cool:

[agregov]

Looks like an incredible resource. Thank you for putting it together. Order is in. :)

[dwross]

Thank you both. I hope for us all a long winter of amazing darkroom time!

[Tin Can]

Got my copy today and I am reading at random, parts I want to understand first.

I am making myself a promise that this coming dark Chicago winter I will make emulsion and coat paper first, then glass plate.

The book is wonderful Denise!

Thank you, Randy Moe

[AuditorOne]

Glass plate and paper are also my own goals. Photo paper is a continual need and I want to shoot glass plate in my 5x7.

This winter promises to be very exciting to put it mildly.

[dwross]

Thanks, Randy! You've certainly jumpstarted my dark, wet, windy weekend with a big smile. I wish you and Auditor both fantastic winters!
:D d

[Duolab123]

I got my book today. Really great job! I just leafed through quickly, already noticed your suggestion of using a potato ricer for "noodling " the AgX emulsion before washing! I knew there was a reason I bought a SS ricer at a thrift store!
Very well documented with photos. Money very well spent. Says Volume 1, looking forward too your next installment.
I've got to get busy, fortunately I think I've got almost everything I need except paper. Got no excuses now.
Thanks again, great contribution to the Arts and Science of Photography.

[Robert Brazile]

Mark Osterman also recommends the ricer, but warns that the cheap ones sometimes rust, despite being "stainless steel". Just keep an eye on it.

Robert

[Andrew Plume]

:) great work Denise and thanks for posting

I first came across you/your work in a past edition of the bi monthly VCM

regards

andrew :)

[RSalles]

Denise,

How are you?

Do you think this is a book for a person who has a lot of background in analog photo, lab included, but zero of experience in emulsion making? Can I promise to myself I'll have a least a presentable work for a selected audience of my wife and daughter following the "recipes" in the book? Or I have to have some previous training?

Regards,

Renato

[Frank_E]

For some time I have had an interest in experimenting with Bromoil prints. What has deterred me is reading that it has become very difficult to find photographic paper that has not been "super coated", which then makes the paper difficult or impossible to use. A solution which others have suggested is to coat your own paper with photographic emulsions. I suspect that the answer to my following question will be "yes", but I will asks the question anyways. Am I correct in assuming that the techniques described in this book will enable me to make photographic paper which will then be suitable for making Bromoil prints.

[dwross]

Thank you all for the supportive thoughts. I'm starting to hold out hope for a community of emulsion-making photographers :).
I think my morning coffee has kicked in enough to try for a few coherent responses.

re stainless steel: Better quality tools are always, well, better. Having said that, even cheap stainless steel will hold up fine if it is washed and dried asap after use. A bigger problem with "cheap" tools is possible flimsiness. A cold ball of emulsion can be pretty stiff (depending on the recipe). I had the rivets holding the two parts together of one such snap on me. There are a lot of ways to shred emulsion, so if finding a heavy duty s.s. potato ricer is a problem, there are excellent and inexpensive options.

Andrew, "VCM"? I don't recognize that, but cool to be mentioned!

Renato: A bit of darkroom experience is way more useful than emulsion-making experience. Nobody has home-based emulsion making experience starting out. Even commercial emulsion chemists have to adapt to the d.i.y. scale. If you can find your way around a kitchen, at least enough not to starve, then you have more than enough skills. A basic emulsion is four ingredients, plus water. You can make it with a hand whisk and a pot of hot water. Coating your emulsion nicely is the biggest learning curve -- just like all the other alt processes. That does take a bit of practice.

Frank: There is a bromide paper recipe in Vol 1. It is very easy to make and almost identical to the earliest commercial papers. It should do nicely with bromoil (my personal plan for it is carbro), but that is only an educated guess. It doesn't have super-coating, and an emulsion hardener (I like glyoxal) is optional when using the paper for standard enlarging, but I would assume it's necessary for bromoil. I don't know how much. Figuring that out will take a bit of experimenting. Glyoxal-hardened paper holds up perfectly to 5-color gum prints. ( http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/Silvergum/SilvergumPart1.htm ) That's as far as my personal experience goes at this point. I would dearly love for you to break ground on this. I'm planning on including other artists who have made substantive progress using emulsions for various techniques in Vol 2. Fingers crossed for you!

d

[Robert Brazile]

Denise,

How are you?

Do you think this is a book for a person who has a lot of background in analog photo, lab included, but zero of experience in emulsion making? Can I promise to myself I'll have a least a presentable work for a selected audience of my wife and daughter following the "recipes" in the book? Or I have to have some previous training?

Regards,

Renato

Hi Renato,

Not to speak for Denise, but the book is very good (I have it) and, having taken the dry plate workshop at Eastman House, I believe that you will find you absolutely can do it without more training than you've already had in lab work. Just follow the directions carefully the first time -- save variations for after you've had some success -- and I think you'll find it all pretty straightforward.

Robert

[RSalles]

Denise and Robert,

Thank you for the answers, I'll give it a try as soon as I can,

Cheers,

Renato