Really Right Stuff and TK45S

[Scott Rosenberg]

good day...

i am eagerly awaiting the delivery of my 'new-to-me' TK45S - should be on my front porch tomorrow! i've read that one method of steadying the camera at long focal lengths is to us the Really Right Stuff B40 (http://reallyrightstuff.com/body_plates/4x5/index.html#) plate to better center the camera over the tripod head.

since i use a bogen 468 head, it would seem that i have two options if i want to use the RRS set-up. the B2 AS II Quick Release Clamp (http://reallyrightstuff.com/clamps/index.html#) or the B2 Pro II Screw-Knob Clamp (http://reallyrightstuff.com/clamps/index.html#).

just wondering if there's more to this decision than a preference between using a screw vs. a QR mechanism... is one easier... more stable... etc?

thanks,
scott

[Tom Westbrook]

Ditto what Frank said.

I'd go with the screw, too. Not sure I'd trust that clamp with a heavy, expensive camera. I've never seen/used one in person, though. I’d also be afraid of releasing the thing accidentally if I snagged the lever with something (coat sleeve, dark cloth, etc.). Can’t do that with the screw.

I recently got a B2 Pro clamp from RRS to go on my Bogen 405. It's very nicely made and feels better than the one on my B1 ball head (which I just might replace). The knob is bigger and has a nicer grippy feeling.

You should definitely call them, but have your 468 head handy in case they ask about measurements. The clamps have threaded holes to attach to your head. They will likely ask if your head has holes, where, and what size they are. They’ll tell you what you need and are very helpful.

[Frank Petronio]

I had to go with the screw mechanism for my Arca-Swiss camera's rail system. I guess the clamping system has tighter tolerances, and doesn't work as well with "off-standard" Arca-Swiss OEM equipment... Ha ha. The RRS stuff is better made than the Arca gear - really.

The clamp is sexier but the screw is very secure and reliable, so no great loss. The best thing to do is to talk to RRS, they really know all the details and don't try to "upsell" you.

[Jay Wolfe]

There's a used RRS mounting plate listed on Ebay right now: 3872587165.

[Paul Butzi]

The plate you specify won't do.

The essential feature is that the two holes in the base of the TK45s are somethink like 80mm (3 3/16 inches) apart.

So you'll need a plate with two screws which can be adjusted to span that distance.

Ideally, one of the screws can be located about 47m (1 7/8") from the end of the plate when you have the screws thus spaced, so that you can make one end of the rail match exactly with the front of the main section of the camera's telescoping 'rail'.

I have a 7" Kirk plate fitted to my TK. It leaves about 25mm (1 inch) of rail at the back of the camera with no plate coverage, but it turns out you wouldn't ever mount the camera in the clamp with it that far back, anyway. I'd say a 6" plate would suffice as long as you could get the screws located properly.

I would opt for a screw clamp. As others have pointed out, I'd worry about snagging the lever on the lever based clamp and dumping $4k of camera gear into a stream or onto a rock.

The RRS clamps are pretty nice. Nicer than the clamp that comes standard on the Arca-Swiss ball heads.

[Paul Butzi]

I just banged around on the RRS site for a minute or two, looking to see what I'd buy.

This looks pretty good to me: the 6" long MPR-1.

Assuming those two screws can be slid back and forth in the center slot, and the anti-twist flange can be removed, it looks to me like it would be a slightly shorter, nicer version of the kirk plate I've got on my camera. The difference in length is really of no import except it would cut weight.

It's also slightly less tall than the Kirk plate I currently use, and has rounded corners, which would make it a little easier to get into the clamp.

The only downside appears to be that the B101 screws are 1/4"-20. The tripod holes in the TK are the larger size (3/8-16? I don't remember.) so you'll need two reducer bushings.

Maybe I'll buy one to replace the Kirk plate!

-Paul

[Glenn Kroeger]

I've used the RRS LR (lever release) clamp with one of their plates on a Toyo 45AX and it is certainly strong enough. The camera would break before the clamp released... but as Frank indicated, there are slight differences in the widths, thicknesses and edge radius of "Arca-Swiss standard" devices. So if you plan on using plates from different manufactures (Kirk, Markins...) or an Arca-Swiss monorail, you need the screw version to handle the variations.

I switched to the screw when I got my AS 69FC. RRS was willing to adjust the LR clamp to the Arca rail, but I also use their plates for other cameras so that wouldn't have solved my problem.

[Scott Rosenberg]

hey fellas... thanks for all the suggestions. sounds like the RRS B2 Pro II is the way to go.

paul, i'm a little puzzled by your response. according to the RRS website, the B40 plate is made specifically for the technikardan. the hyperlink i used in my original question goes to the generic 4x5 plate page, but one the right, if you click on the fifth and final option, Linhof Technikardan (4x5) it takes you to the following description...
B40
Special style (fore-aft) plate for the Linhof Technikardan. Uses two 3/8-16 screws.

do you think that the 6" long MPR-1 would be a better plate for the technikardan?

thanks,
scott

[Scott Rosenberg]

just got off the phone with the folks at RRS. they were, as you all suggested, very helpful. i was told that the B40 is the best match for the TK45S, as it was specifically designed for that camera. it doesn't say on the website, but it's 7.5" long.

[Stephen Weaver]

Scott
I have the B40 on my TK: it works great

[Paul Butzi]

Christ. This is the THIRD time I've typed this up. This posting interface is (if you'll forgive me ranting for a second) excreble. It's worse than that. It drives me nuts. I hate it. I hate it a lot.
It's the most annoying thing to happen to me today. Period. And it's been a fairly cruddy day, so that's really saying something.

At one point, I had what I think was a B40 plate for my TK.

Here's a link to the plate on Ebay :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3872587165 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3872587165)

Note the wide flange on the top side of the plate. That flange is part of what I hated bout the plate I had. The flange was as wide as the main rail section on the TK. But the center of the main rail section on my TK is a raised hard plastic pad that stands a bit proud of the surrounding aluminum rail section, so that there was a gap between the wings of the plate and the bottom of the rail section where grit, sand, etc. could hide and then escape into my camera pack. Ick.
This flange makes the plate about four times as heavy as the Kirk plate I'm now using. I thought about just sawing it off!

Beyond that, the spacing on the screws was right, but the amount of rail beyond the screws was not.

When you are using a short lens, you end up putting the clamp on the tripod head directly under the center of the camera, to get thing balanced. When you use longer lenses, the rail extends IN FRONT, so that you move the attachment point foward. Depending on how much extension you are using, you might move it all the way to the front of the camera main rail section.

But the RRS plate I had didn't extend all the way forward. Turned one way, it ran nearly to the back of the camera rail section (the direction you never use). Turned the other way, it stuck out in front of the rail section - useless.

I ended up selling it and going back to the Kirk 7" plate that I am still using.

Before you order the B40, you might want to see if they've fixed those shortcomings.

Or perhas Steve can comment on the shortcomings I felt the B40 had?

[Scott Rosenberg]

paul...

sorry you are having difficulties posting, but i am grateful that you contributed. the hard plastic pad on my TK45S (IT ARRIVED THIS AFTERNOON!!) is recessed into the aluminum of the main rail section... it seems to be quite flush with the surrounding metal. although, running my finger across the bottom of the main rail, the hard plastic plate does seem to be raised ever slightly, maybe the thickness of a playing card or two.

i'll call the folks at RRS tomorrow and ask them about the issues you raise.

now, if i can only get a handle on properly unfolding the camera i'll be all set! for anyone still following this thread, do the standards swing on their own as they are seperated while unfolding, or is this something that one must do manually as the focus knob is rotated?

thanks,
scott

[Sal Santamaura]

Paul, what don't you like about this forum's posting interface? Tom Westbrook went beyond what we should have reasonably expected from a volunteer in getting us back on line, and many of us gave detailed feedback during the testing phase. I'm not trying to be defensive, just sincerely interested in what you dislike.

[Stephen Weaver]

Scott and Paul
The B40 that I have fits perfectly on the TK45S that I have and runs almost the entire length of the collapsed rail.

Scott: when you unfold and fold the camera it really helps to do it mounted on the tripod, and yes you need to manually help it along. Once you practice it it will be come second nature.

[Scott Rosenberg]

thanks, fellas. i'm getting the hang of it now. paul emailed me off line with a VERY detailed description of the process to best fold and unfold the camera... what a wonderful tool! i can't wait to get out and start shooting.

thanks again,
Scott

[John Hennessy]

Sounds like everyone has said all that needs to be said about the B40 RRS plate. I use mine in what I assume to be the backwards position: sticking out from the front of the TK's bottom rail. With a Fujinon c450 the balance point is almost to the end of the RRS plate and about an inch beyond the bottom TK rail. That is far from ideal but seems to be OK and better than off balance. I cinch down the camera with a 1" velcro strap when using the 450 anyway.

I have a wierd but very fast and pinch-proof way of folding my TK which I'll explain if you're interested.

If the RRS plate were better designed it would be longer in the front by at least 30mm (now it does not extend to the balance point with an M450 but does with a C450) and should thicker in the front so that the main rail rests on and slides over it. To save weight the plate can be cut shorter on the back by about 20mm and the sides can be shaved down about 10mm.

Finally, one more unsolicited hot tip for TK use: it seems better for stability if no TK rail is extended all the way, especially the lighter front pieces. So I marked the rails with color coded indexes for infinity focus for each of my lenes. When I put on say my 300 I slide each rail to the color marks for the 300 and no rail is completely extended and there's plenty of room on each rail to extend further if I am focussing close. Sounds compulsive but it speeds me up.

[Paul Butzi]

Wow, this is turning into a great thread on practical matters regarding the TK.

I agree with John's comment that the camera is more rigid if no rail is extended all the way - it's better to extend both the extendable sections just a bit than to run the smallest rail out all the way, for instance. I haven't made color coded marks on my rails as John has but that sounds like a good idea.

But having that plate stick out in front of the camera rail, while it makes it possible to mount at the CG with the 450, it would make it a hassle to pack the camera in my pack - the inch or so of rail hanging out would always snag on stuff. I'm not saying it's a silly thing to do - it clearly works well for John. I'm just observing that it's a cautionary reminder that what one photographer prefers, another will find completely unacceptable, and vice versa.

That makes forums like this, where you can get 10 opinions in a heartbeat, even more valuable to me.

[Scott Rosenberg]

thanks again for all the inputs, fellas. tomorrow I’m going to get to really get acquainted with the TK... but the little time I’ve had playing with it so far, all I can say is WOW!


I’m making a small 'gap tool' from foam core that will keep the standards precisely parallel to one another and about 3/4" apart to aid in pinch-free folding and unfolding. probably not necessary after the first few days, but it'll help at first.

[Paul Butzi]

Re: a spacer to keep the standards from colliding when folding/unfolding - I just stuff my forefinger in there when I fold or unfold the camera. Works a treat, and it's hard to lose.

I'd love to hear other people's tricks for folding/unfolding and rapid setup.

[John Hennessy]

A demonstration would be worth a thousand words, but I am going to try to describe my method for folding the TK. I thought of this method after using the camera for several years. It is probably more detail than anyone would need; the main steps are 4 and 6.

1. Neutralize swings, tilts and rise; collapse rail and tighten.

2. Loosen all controls including tripod pan head.

3. Squeeze standards together with both hands making them square and apart only by a finger width or so. Both standards should be together anywhere near the center of the rail.

4. Shift both standards together all the way to the left (assuming you’re in the back) till the standards and rail look like this from the top: —| (the horizontal line is both standards together and the vertical line is the collapsed rail).

5. Unclick the front and rear swing catches and swing both slightly to the rear.

6. Jam left index finger between L standards and tightly grab both standards with the left hand, grab the rear of the rail with the right hand and rotate them till they are together (i.e., standards counterclockwise and rail clockwise). If the standards don’t end up directly over the rail, shove the standards forward till they’re square. Lock the six red levers if you want to.

The red suitcase symbols on the rail and the rear standard will line up; you can ignore the red suit case on the focus gear. The secret is the jammed-in left index finger which keeps the bellows from pinching on the standards, and the —| formation which gives you a bit of leverage (aided by the loose tripod pan control) to pop the camera closed.

[Scott Rosenberg]

what do you fellas use as a gg protector?

[Paul Butzi]

One thing that I do to make folding/unfolding simpler is to push the front standard carrier all the way to the left (from the front of the camera), and move the rear standard/focus carrier also to the left (but from the REAR).

This way, when you unfold, the standards actually move apart as you rotate them.

Scott, I used to use a KB Canham plexiglass GG protector but I no longer bother - I depend on my pack padding to protect the GG.

-Paul